Important Official Custom Moveset Project

[Thinkaman]

Has anyone tested if buffs to characters like DK/Charizard/Palutena + their unaltered customs results in any new combos or setups?

Zard d-throw true combos into DJ Dragon Rush on Sheik at like 60%. Flare Blitz also works at like 70%.

Marth landing sourspot aerials true-combo into CS at mid-%s. Lucina might too?

I don't anticipate anything else based on the timing changes we saw.

Edit: Blast Burn true combos on Fox out of d-throw at 100%, but good luck.

 

[Teshie U]

Curious about Palutena Dtilt into upsmash/dair or DK new cargo options.

 

[Raijinken]

These customs with relatively high skill barriers don't exactly encourage more newer players to join in on the "fun."

There's a line you have draw somewhere... It's hard to favor a strictly "competitive" ruling on the issue that also happens to alienate 1/4th of my scene. I'm the most "Spike"-minded of the players in my area, but I can't play that version of the game by myself either...

Characters as dominant as <insert best character in any given game or patch> don't either. Neither do restrictive stage rules, or relatively complex stage processes (like striking, which is entirely made up in the Smash context), etc. But some things make up for their at-a-glance nonsense by adding more to the game (i.e. basically all of the above, though mileage may vary), while others are really just nonsense. I'm of the opinion that 75%+ of customs add to the game. Of the remaining 25%, probably 20% are just objectively bad, and the remaining 5% is a very generous allotment for what might be ban-worthy.

 

[Thinkaman]

Curious about Palutena Dtilt into upsmash/dair or DK new cargo options.

Palutena d-tilt is not in the ballpark of having any combo relevance. Cargo throw barely connects to uair, and doesn't interact with any specials.

 

[Teshie U]

Doesn't he have cargo throw to giant punch though?

 

[Thinkaman]

Doesn't he have cargo throw to giant punch though?

I don't see how he could--he can barely true combo uair.

 

[Teshie U]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXT6LnGFZvo#t=25s

might not be legit, but i figure cargo upthrow to windkong would be hilarious

 

[Thinkaman]

Wait, stop the presses, Zard d-throw true combos into Rising Cyclone ~50%, which for me is then consistently connecting. (and KOs)

 

[RonNewcomb]

Others have answered this, so I'm just offering a comment: It's not the only bit of 'fail' to come about from the character boards voting on their sets. Link totally lost out on Quickdraw Bow for the same reason, even though I've seen Link players who can use it to excellent effect.

Actually that was because a patch changed Quickfire Bow. Pre-WiiU, it had zero hitstun, like Fox's lasers. Except it was slower, non-repeatable, and with range so laughable it was frequently unsafe on hit. Around the time of the Wii U game's release it was changed to have at least a tiny bit of hitstun which made all the difference in the world.

 

[DanGR]

Kirby needs more than one set with grounding stone. It locks fallen opponents, easily extending his footstool combos which were made more possible by the f-throw buff this last patch.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Fair enough, Ron. I stand corrected.

 

[Slifer-san]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the customs vs noncustoms debate at super smash con went?

 

[W.A.C.]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the customs vs noncustoms debate at super smash con went?

I'm very curious about this as well. Was there a recording of it?

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

Curious as well, but I feel like I already know how it went.

 

[thehard]

Recorded and coming soon.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Soon™
Did people actually made good arguments there?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Soon™
Did people actually made good arguments there?

Honestly as long as it wasn't an echochamber in either direction I'll be reasonably happy.

 

[GUIGUI]

Little question, but what is the next relatively big tournament to allow customs coming up? Will we have to wait till Apex, or even that one will be Custom off?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Apex will likely be Customs Off because lolapexruleset

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I just wanted to pipe up and say that G&W is definitely one of the characters who need a better set of Custom presets.

Not a single Efficient Panic for the Luigi/Pika matchups, and the presence of Panic Overload on any set is suspect as it has no real competitive function (not even doubles smh). Trampoline Launch was also over-hyped, as Fire! and Heavy Trampoline are the big boys.

Just giving a heads-up, as AA mentioned suggesting characters that need an overhaul.

 

[RonNewcomb]

I'd be surprised if there were any characters who didn't need an update.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I'd be surprised if there were any characters who didn't need an update.

Sheik doesn't

 

[Xeze]

Little question, but what is the next relatively big tournament to allow customs coming up? Will we have to wait till Apex, or even that one will be Custom off?

Unless something unexpected happens, I'm afraid no big or relatively big tournament will allow customs moves.

 

[GUIGUI]

Unless something unexpected happens, I'm afraid no big or relatively big tournament will allow customs moves.

This blows. I know EVO accepted them because there was a big demand for it and they listened. any coming tourney that could lend us a complaisant hear coming?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

You all want customs to be used in more tournaments, particularly national sized ones?

You need to work on your social media aspect. Very badly.

Right now, most of the pro-custom talk is taking place in an echo chamber. That helps pretty much nobody. Meanwhile, you have anti-custom people making videos (like Omni) and dominating things like reddit. If you can't win the battle out there, there's no point in trying to update this.

A big name is really needed to be attached to pro-customs. Multiple big names in fact. M2K seemed to be heavily in favour of customs, get that out there. Not just random posts in smashboards, get it known on youtube, twitter, and reddit. Make it so its a debate: "Zero doesn't like them, but M2K does". John Numbers, you have at least a small amount of sway between being THE WFT guy and being the Nintendo Champion. Make a video, explain why you support customs, get the video spread as much as possible. ESAM I'm fairly sure is pro-customs, try to see if you guys can't get him to make a video, or at least some quotes from him to use in your own videos along with M2K's twitter comments. Alpharad isn't a high level player but he's fairly popular on reddit from what I understand and seems to like customs to at least some extent: try to get him to make a video explaining why customs should be legal. If you guys know of any other high or top level player with a presence in the scene that likes customs, get them onboard or at least some quotes from them.

Forget updating the project, the social media battle is what you all need to be focusing on as the number one priority. Get your videos up on the front page of smashboards, make sure they aren't overly argumentative: just politely factual.

 

[Illuminose]

You all want customs to be used in more tournaments, particularly national sized ones?

You need to work on your social media aspect. Very badly.

Right now, most of the pro-custom talk is taking place in an echo chamber. That helps pretty much nobody. Meanwhile, you have anti-custom people making videos (like Omni) and dominating things like reddit. If you can't win the battle out there, there's no point in trying to update this.

A big name is really needed to be attached to pro-customs. Multiple big names in fact. M2K seemed to be heavily in favour of customs, get that out there. Not just random posts in smashboards, get it known on youtube, twitter, and reddit. Make it so its a debate: "Zero doesn't like them, but M2K does". John Numbers, you have at least a small amount of sway between being THE WFT guy and being the Nintendo Champion. Make a video, explain why you support customs, get the video spread as much as possible. ESAM I'm fairly sure is pro-customs, try to see if you guys can't get him to make a video, or at least some quotes from him to use in your own videos along with M2K's twitter comments. Alpharad isn't a high level player but he's fairly popular on reddit from what I understand and seems to like customs to at least some extent: try to get him to make a video explaining why customs should be legal. If you guys know of any other high or top level player with a presence in the scene that likes customs, get them onboard or at least some quotes from them.

Forget updating the project, the social media battle is what you all need to be focusing on as the number one priority. Get your videos up on the front page of smashboards, make sure they aren't overly argumentative: just politely factual.

ESAM is heavily anti-customs. Alpharad wouldn't want to deal with a community debate because that's not his audience.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

wish I could help with social media, but alas. I'll try talking to people at Nebulous when I start going in about a month.

On the topic of updates though, when the update is complete and posted, whenever that is, @ Amazing Ampharos could you make sure to bold the changes? Either new sets taking up slots or old ones in the "optional" slot that would get moved into the main 8. That would make things a lot easier for folks like me who would have to update the sets, only focusing on the bolded ones because everything else we'd know is unchanged.

 

[Steelballray]

"Zero doesn't like them, but M2K does"

Zero is the undisputed king and M2K is a no one when it comes to Sm4sh. So even if he comes and make a video and dances buttnaked to support customs I don't think that weighs to anything. I mean, you can say that it does but in fact it doesn't.

How many top players support customs anyway? I thought the top 8 at Evo all didnt use customs or something..
Anyways, RIP customs. You were such a bother and I am glad you're gone, <3

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

The meanspiritedness of these custom debates at smashboards is enough to flood an orphanage with tears

 

[Steelballray]

The meanspiritedness of these custom debates at smashboards is enough to flood an orphanage with tears

Why an orphanage in particular tho?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Zero is the undisputed king and M2K is a no one when it comes to Sm4sh. So even if he comes and make a video and dances buttnaked to support customs I don't think that weighs to anything. I mean, you can say that it does but in fact it doesn't.

How many top players support customs anyway? I thought the top 8 at Evo all didnt use customs or something..
Anyways, RIP customs. You were such a bother and I am glad you're gone, <3

So 5th place at EVO, a dominating force for years on every other Smash iteration, a known name all across the Smash globe and he's a nobody?
Where is the dislike button?

nice insight there, Nintendofreak. Trust me, if I had some ways to help the media distribution, I'd do it for sure.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Why an orphanage in particular tho?

Because of all the crying orphans, duh...

 

[Steelballray]

So 5th place at EVO, a dominating force for years on every other Smash iteration, a known name all across the Smash globe and he's a nobody?
Where is the dislike button?

Wait.. you meant 5th place at Apex? I just googled stuff real quick and it didnt seem he was at Evo this year. Can you clarify?
Also, last year is last year, everything changed so drastically much since then. He isn't a relevant Sm4sh player and his opinion shouldn't matter more than anyone who's relevant in the scene right now. People like Mr.R, Nairo and Esaam matter much more and their opinions are the ones who we should be basing decisions on if anything.
M2K being great in previous games shouldn't matter. If Leffen or whoever is good at Melee said that customs shouldn't be allowed and anit-custom people included that as a part of their argument you'd be all over the place saying his talk is irrelevant.

Anyways, I don't know why you might even want to use the voice of M2k or whoever else to support your cause when the absolute best Sm4sh player himself is so strongly against it.

Because of all the crying orphans, duh...

That.. still does't make much sense.. WHY not flood a school or hospital?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Yes, it was Apex, my bad.
But still, M2K at least played Smash 4 and has historically placed very well in it, but he said they nerfed Diddy so hard that the game just doesn't have a character who fits him anymore (at least not without customs, where he'd use Palutena). He's definitely NOT a nobody in this game.

THAT BEING SAID, I absolutely dislike weighting opinions based on tournament placings. But he's been in the environment (and very involved with Smash 4's metagame, helping shaping it, even) for so long that his opinion DOES matter.

 

[Steelballray]

Yes, it was Apex, my bad.
But still, M2K at least played Smash 4 and has historically placed very well in it, but he said they nerfed Diddy so hard that the game just doesn't have a character who fits him anymore

THAT BEING SAID, I absolutely dislike weighting opinions based on tournament placings. But he's been in the environment (and very involved with Smash 4's metagame, helping shaping it, even) for so long that his opinion DOES matter.

Edit: that was kinda disrespectful. So I'm sorry.

He shaped the meta? Game was released how many years ago for us to consider him shapping anything something so spectacular? Do remind me what he did to help shape the meta please, I genuinely can't remember.

Also, doesn't M2K complain about anything and everything being OP whenever he loses? Why should his opinion be taken as anything speical?

And I don't like saying something more than once but why should his opinion be more important to us than those of current prominent players?

Tournaments placings matter. If someone wins considerably a lot it means they usually have a good understanding of the game, and if they do that means their opinions should weight to more than those of "regular people".
But of course you wouldn't want to take the argument there since most top players are against costums.

How many top players are standing for costumes tho? I don't assume there are many since that guy above was struggling real hard to come up with any names, having to go all the way and bring the cringeworthy name of M2K.

 

[GUIGUI]

(...) "Zero doesn't like them, but M2K does". (...)

Is that even true, tough? Did Zero actually ever said that. Customs were never an issue to him during EVO, as far as I know. Has he actually made any recent stance on custom anyway?

(...)I thought the top 8 at Evo all didnt use customs or something..(...)

From what I rememamber, Customs at EVO were still in use till loser Finals.

 

[Steelballray]

Is that even true, tough? Did Zero actually ever said that. Customs were never an issue to him during EVO, as far as I know. Has he actually made any recent stance on custom anyway?

Yeah. Pretty sure be made a reddit post saying that he hates them and want them gone.

 

[W.A.C.]

ZeRo has mentioned he would only reconsider his stance on customs if future patches put in a lot of effort to make customs more balanced.

 

[PUK]

ZeRo has mentioned he would only reconsider his stance on customs if future patches put in a lot of effort to make customs more balanced.

But he doesn't want sheik to be nerfed...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

In his vision of the game, only the characters with incredible individual options in Customs Off deserve to have them, I guess.