Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Nigerian Star Storm]

10'000th post yay!!!


Edit:**** YOU Rubiksfriend

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

10'000th post yay!!!


Edit:**** YOU Rubiksfriend

 

[metalmonstar]

Oh yes is marth garbage online. I couldn't even beat an Ike player online. Offline I can three stock Ike's with Marth but online it is like I am not even doing the move I inputed. Fsmash become practically unavoidable.

Marth is a beast offline though.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I've actually lost to a Captain Falcon with a Marth online. That's how bad he is online.


*Facepalm*

 

[Eclipse_the_Sun]

And btw Kiwikomix, nice post about Yoshi

OK, about this popularity tourny rankings thing, I still do not get it. You can fix popularity by averaging the scores. The 'noobies' wouldn't lower a character's ranking, because a character only gains points if he gets like top 4 or something, so the noobies' bad rankings wouldn't be counted. So, it would be balanced, right? o.0.


Edit: who noes! it's the 666th page! everyone run for your lives! (lol)

Actually, that is what Ankoku is doing.
Only it's extended to top 8.

Actually averaging the top x players doesn't solve anything as player skill should be constant for any character. For example lets say that 1 in every 100 players is skilled regardless of what character they play then Snake and MK would still place in the top 8 far more often then other characters simply because there are more skilled players. The current tournament results clearly show that this is happening that's not to say that Snake and MK aren't broken but their popularity is defiantly a factor in their tournament results.
Unfortunately taking a complete average won't work either as not that the smash community is aware of how good snake and MK are disproportionate amounts of noobs have started playing them which would make averaging their results inaccurate.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Lolz at the online
Yoshi is high tier on wifi, Kirby is low, ROB is mid. Ike = God. GG Sakurai.
I might have to feel bad for someone who came to a tourney after only having wifi experience, then wondering how everyone dodges their attacks, then goes back and plays more people on the webs for practice.
@ Gamefaqs: Bah.... I refuse to do stuff there anymore. There's just SO many idiots.

 

[Deleted member]

Kiwi u are so wrong. Its rob=top, yoshi=lower than normal, snake=gay, jiggs=rollout tier.

 

[chckn]

Kiwi u are so wrong. Its rob=top, yoshi=lower than normal, snake=gay, jiggs=rollout tier.

LOLOLZ worth taking out the time to make an online tier list?

 

[Tristan_win]

against my better judgment, I'm gonna post my tier list.

Please be honest about what you think about it.


Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch

High Tier:
Marth
Falco
R.O.B.
Pikachu
King Dedede
Zelda
Pit

High-Mid Tier:
Wario
Toon Link
Olimar
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Diddy Kong


Mid Tier:
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Fox
ZSS
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Bowser
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff

Are you guys serious about this tier list?
I know Zelda got a lot of buffs and all but she isn't high tier material also Pikachu? Come on now quick attack cancel does make him a lot better but differently not high and don't even get me started about Sheik she should be at least higher then Lucas. I really don't know about Luigi though so maybe he's higher then her I can't say I never fight luigis.

 

[Pieisthebest]

Are you guys serious about this tier list?
I know Zelda got a lot of buffs and all but she isn't high tier material also Pikachu? Come on now quick attack cancel does make him a lot better but differently not high and don't even get me started about Sheik she should be at least higher then Lucas. I really don't know about Luigi though so maybe he's higher then her I can't say I never fight luigis.

^these

Also lol I have one of your qoutes, sigged

 

[Tristan_win]

Woot! Someone remembered me. Thank you Pieisthebest for quoting me

The funny thing is though even after writing that I over sleep the next day so I wasn't able to take place in the tournament.

 

[chckn]

Are you guys serious about this tier list?
I know Zelda got a lot of buffs and all but she isn't high tier material also Pikachu? Come on now quick attack cancel does make him a lot better but differently not high and don't even get me started about Sheik she should be at least higher then Lucas. I really don't know about Luigi though so maybe he's higher then her I can't say I never fight luigis.

Lolz that tier list, like 99.9% of tier lists on this thread is innacurate, Gw is not top tier, Zelda is not high and pit DEFINATELY isn't. Ice Climbers need to move up as does DK. And surprisingly the mid-low and low tiers look fairly accurate

 

[Tristan_win]

Lolz that tier list, like 99.9% of tier lists on this thread is innacurate, Gw is not top tier, Zelda is not high and pit DEFINATELY isn't. Ice Climbers need to move up as does DK. And surprisingly the mid-low and low tiers look fairly accurate

Hmm, I agree with you on Pit and moving the Ice climbers up as mid tier seems just too low for someone who can have a instant 0 to death combo on anyone.

DK though is well not that good. He's clearly not bad don't get me wrong but he doesn't seem have that much potential. He strikes me as the keeper of High-Mid at best.

...Wario needs to be in high.

 

[Fenvir]

Diddy Kong is high-mid tier and = to DK? Yes Pikachu and Zelda are too high.

 

[chckn]

Hmm, I agree with you on Pit and moving the Ice climbers up as mid tier seems just too low for someone who can have a instant 0 to death combo on anyone.

DK though is well not that good. He's clearly not bad don't get me wrong but he doesn't seem have that much potential. He strikes me as the keeper of High-Mid at best.

...Wario needs to be in high.

**** I didnt even notice wario, yeah he needs to be at like the bottom of high, right above ddd imo, and as for dk, he needs to be at the very top of high-mid. Dk is alot sicker now. He's a good matchup for snake and mk as well as alot of others. His tilts as well as his range are rediculous. His SAF of his up-b make him tough to spike. He can double bair with almost no landing lag, and on top of all of this he is starting to place higher and higher in tournaments. Imo he has enough going for him to be at least top of mid if not higher.

side note: If you want edit out that tier list to something a little more accurate, you shall be awarded many internetz. Im at work now and that would take too much effort for me to do :[

 

[chckn]

Diddy Kong is high-mid tier and = to DK? Yes Pikachu and Zelda are too high.

and no, diddy kong should not be any higher than he is now.

*double post*

 

[Pieisthebest]

Woot! Someone remembered me. Thank you Pieisthebest for quoting me

The funny thing is though even after writing that I over sleep the next day so I wasn't able to take place in the tournament.

Lawl, that sucks

btw I tied for 9th place in that tourney ^_^

 

[Tristan_win]

Good ****, good ****

Anyways before anyone read what I'm about to post below let me just say I made this because I've never made a tier list before and in no way do I feel this is 100% correct...at all. Although Sheik/Zelda placement is pretty accurate if you ask me ><

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight

High Tier
Mr. Game and Watch
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Sheik/Zelda <- Hellz yeah I just made a new character
Wario
Falco
Marth
High-Mid Tier:
Ice Climbers
Toon Link
Olimar
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
ZSS
Mid Tier:
Kirby
Peach
Fox
Sheik
Lucario
Zelda
Pit
Luigi
Pikachu
Lucas
Mario
Mid-Low tier :
Ness
Yoshi
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser
Ike
Ganondorf
Low Tier:
Link
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff

 

[chckn]

Good ****, good ****

Anyways before anyone read what I'm about to post below let me just say I made this because I've never made a tier list before and in no way do I feel this is 100% correct...at all. Although Sheik/Zelda placement is pretty accurate if you ask me ><

LOLOLZ lack of spaces caused me to think that there were only two tiers, anyways looks fairly good, although the whole sheik/zelda thing may not work out lol, Ill try to help

God Tier:
Sheik/Zelda <- Hellz yeah I just made a new character(up 3984)


Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight

High Tier
Mr. Game and Watch
Falco(up two)
R.O.B.
Marth(up two)
King Dedede(down two)
Wario

High-Mid Tier:
Donkey Kong(up four)
Olimar(up two just because of how high he has been placing lately)
Zelda(Up two)
Lucario(up three)
Ice Climbers(up three)
Toon Link
Wolf
Pikachu(up three)

Mid Tier:
Pit(down two)
Diddy Kong(down three)
Kirby
ZSS
Luigi
Lucas
Fox
Mario
Ness
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser(down two)
Peach
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff(up one)
Captain Falcon

Not too sure about the placement for ness/lucas. INTELEGENT posters suggestions please, provide evidence for what you state.

 

[Pieisthebest]

Good ****, good ****

Anyways before anyone read what I'm about to post below let me just say I made this because I've never made a tier list before and in no way do I feel this is 100% correct...at all. Although Sheik/Zelda placement is pretty accurate if you ask me ><

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight

High Tier
Mr. Game and Watch
King Dedede
Marth
R.O.B.
Falco
Wario
Sheik/Zelda

High-Mid Tier:
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Toon Link
Olimar
Pikachu
Fox
Wolf
Pit
Kirby
ZSS
Diddy Kong

Low-Mid Tier:
Zelda
Ness
Peach
Luigi
Sheik
Lucario
Mario
Lucas

Low tier :
Bowser
Link
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Ike

Bottom Tier:
Samus
Captain Falcon

Fix'd >.>
Peach and Fox FTW
*fkees*

 

[chckn]

Fix'd >.>
Peach and Fox FTW
*fkees*

-_- you obviously didnt read the last part of my post, you just completely chopped up a tier list with absolutely no idea what you are doing. Give me any informed opinion as to why you did anything you just did and I will give you at least the slightest bit of credit. Until then your incorect edits are disregarded, gg.

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight

High Tier
Mr. Game and Watch
Falco(up two)
R.O.B.
Marth(up two)
King Dedede(down two)
Wario

High-Mid Tier:
Donkey Kong(up four)
Olimar(up two just because of how high he has been placing lately)
Zelda(Up two)
Lucario(up three)
Ice Climbers(up three)
Toon Link
Wolf
Pikachu(up three)

Mid Tier:
Pit(down two)
Diddy Kong(down three)
Kirby
ZSS
Luigi
Lucas
Fox
Mario
Ness
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser(down two)
Peach
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff(up one)
Captain Falcon

*edit* Do not post my tier list again with your edits on it, simply post what you think should be changed and why and I will edit it on this post. This will save alot of space on the thread. Again do not blindly post if you have no idea what you are posting

 

[Pieisthebest]

Now explain yourself, why each person is where they are.

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight

High Tier:
Mr. Game and Watch
Falco
R.O.B.
Marth
King Dedede - Explain why hes so low
Wario

High-Mid Tier:
Donkey Kong
Olimar
Zelda
Lucario - So high
Ice Climbers - so low
Toon Link
Wolf
Pikachu - So low

Mid Tier:
Pit - so low
Diddy Kong
Kirby - So low
ZSS
Luigi
Lucas - So high
Fox - So low
Mario
Ness - Lower than Lucas O___o
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Sonic
Ike - So high
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser - So low
Peach - So low
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link - So low
Samus
Jigglypuff - So low
Captain Falcon

BTW that was Tristian's tier list I was editing, dont make flawed coments like that, kthnxbai

 

[chckn]

Now explain yourself, why each person is where they are.

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight

High Tier:
Mr. Game and Watch
Falco
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Marth
Wario

High-Mid Tier:
Donkey Kong
Olimar
Zelda
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Toon Link
Wolf


Mid Tier:
Pit - so low
Diddy Kong
Kirby - So low
ZSS
Luigi
Lucas - So high
Fox - So low
Mario
Ness - Lower than Lucas O___o
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Sonic
Ike - So high
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser - So low
Peach - So low
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link - So low
Samus
Jigglypuff - So low
Captain Falcon

BTW that was Tristian's tier list I was editing, dont make flawed coments like that, kthnxbai

Rather than reiterate what has been said over the past seven hundred pages of this thread and is common knowledge, Ill address what you have commented on. As to ness and lucas I said on my first post that those were the two I wasnt sure about. If you would provide me with some information as to why they should be moved I would me more than open to listen.

Firstly DDD is not too low, I have him not even at the bottom of high. He is just starting to move up in terms of tournament representation so I can see him above marth but definately not above ROB. I'll change him to above of marth.

Lucario has many good matchups and has been doing very well in tourneys lately. He has good killing power and is heavy.

Ice Climbers Insane cg's and combos but imo they just cant go any higher. IMO they can't put them above lucario or olimar just because of how they havent been performing in tourneys. If you provide solid evidence I possibly move them up.

PIkachu I moved up above TL and Wolf, but I really cant see him any higher. Once again provide evidence and then maybe, but as of now no.

- I cannot finish the list now but I will when I get back from lunch (I am at work)

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

When did Bowser drop to the bottom of Low Tier?

 

[Nestec]

As for Lucas and Ness, right now as things stand, I reluctantly agree that Lucas deserves higher than Ness. T__T

Poor tournament representation >> No tournament representation

Although the match-up charts aren't solid yet, so far Lucas is said to have better match-ups.

 

[mitchlol7]

My tier list


top/god tier:
Snake: Kills at low % and has a awesome recovory
MK: Speed, Spam and Recovory

High:
G&W: Smash and air game overcomes his weight
Falco: Lasorz, Chain grab, and spike
Dedede: Chain grab and low % kills
Marth: Tipable, spike and strong knockback
Wario: Can fly through the air like nothing, good airials and has almost an instant kill move(wario waft)

Mid high
Rob: Awesome recovories, Heavy, Good at killing
Olimarikmin do lots of damage, Incredible Grab, Fair and Bair anyone?
Donkyowerful, Can stick opponents to the ground, Can meteor smash
IC: Chaingrab, Meteor smash, Twice the pain
Lucario: More health=more power, dair, chain grab
Pit: Arrows, deflector, Good recovery

Mid
ZSS: Speed, D Smash can be hard to get out of, Starts off with 3 pieces of throwable armor
Pikachu: Good Down smash, Chaingrabable down throw spamable down special
Kirby: Good B move, good recovory, hammer can be good to kill with
Diddy
Wolf
Fox
Luigi
Shiek
Mario

Low mid
PT
Sonic
Peach
Zelda
Bowser
Gannon
Ike
Lucas

Bottom
Ness
Link
Yoshi
Jiggs
Samus
Falcon

Note: I think I'm missing some
Note again: More reasons coming soon
Note for the third time: The lower on the list the more negative i get

 

[SaxDude93]

My tier list

GANNON-BANNED

Also, M&W is too low, missing PT, and other things.

 

[Nestec]

Eh, Wario twice?

Missing Zelda...ROB...and someone else, I think..

Too High?: Pit, Lucario, Ganondorf

Too Low?: Ness, Lucas, G&W,

 

[mitchlol7]

Ok so i got wario once, G&W is up and gannon is up. Reasoning coming soon

 

[chckn]

Now explain yourself, why each person is where they are.

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight

High Tier:
Mr. Game and Watch
Falco
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Marth
Wario

Upper Tier:
Donkey Kong
Olimar
Zelda
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Toon Link
Wolf


Mid Tier:
Pit
Diddy Kong
Kirby
ZSS
Luigi
Lucas
Fox
Mario
Ness
Sheik

Low Tier:
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Bowser
Ganondorf

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Link - So low
Samus
Jigglypuff - So low
Captain Falcon


Rather than reiterate what has been said over the past seven hundred pages of this thread and is common knowledge, Ill address what you have commented on. As to ness and lucas I said on my first post that those were the two I wasnt sure about. If you would provide me with some information as to why they should be moved I would me more than open to listen.

Firstly DDD is not too low, I have him not even at the bottom of high. He is just starting to move up in terms of tournament representation so I can see him above marth but definately not above ROB. I'll change him to above of marth.

Lucario has many good matchups and has been doing very well in tourneys lately. He has good killing power and is heavy.

Ice Climbers Insane cg's and combos but imo they just cant go any higher. IMO they can't put them above lucario or olimar just because of how they havent been performing in tourneys. If you provide solid evidence I possibly move them up.

PIkachu I moved up above TL and Wolf, but I really cant see him any higher. Once again provide evidence and then maybe, but as of now no.

Pit- Lack of killing moves imo wont let him break past top of mid, anyone with any objections+evidence and I'll reconsideer.

kirby: -_- there is no way in hell he can go any higher, you see the problem is that you cannot have a high-mid division consisting of 25 characters, some characters just arent able to break past mid.

bowser/peach- are you kidding me? next to no tournament representation/decent matchups, they cannot go any higher. In fact Im going to put bowser under peach.

jiggs- wop is not as impressive at is was in melee due to multiple jump characters/better recoveries. nerfed rest=fail. weakened attacks doesnt help either. Extremely light and lack of good matchups as well as ****ty tournament representation.

*Pies: all you did was suggest that I move up like half the characters on the list without any reason at all -_-, anyone else please give feedback on this tier list. Please do not post any more random innacurate tier lists(missing characters), without reaserch built upon your own personal bias.

 

[Deleted member]

Nerfs from an old game shouldnt be considered when making tier lists, cuz thats just silly. Rest isnt hard to land and kills at around 70 its one of the best kill moves in the game. Same with WoP, its still good, just not as good as in melee. Her pound has unfair priority, it goes through practically everything. How you people think she is bottom tier is a mystery to me=/


Also yoshi>gannon and link>gannon. Yoshi has alot more going for him and his recovery doesnt suck and he doesnt get completely shut down by camping, and link has an amazing spam and zoning game.

 

[Onomanic]

*sigh* Link is always low tier.... oh well. Nothing I can do about it until I enter some tournaments.....
I wish he was atleast low mid tier or mid. I need to enter a tournament so bad.....

 

[chckn]

Nerfs from an old game shouldnt be considered when making tier lists, cuz thats just silly. Rest isnt hard to land and kills at around 70 its one of the best kill moves in the game. Same with WoP, its still good, just not as good as in melee. Her pound has unfair priority, it goes through practically everything. How you people think she is bottom tier is a mystery to me=/


Also yoshi>gannon and link>gannon. Yoshi has alot more going for him and his recovery doesnt suck and he doesnt get completely shut down by camping, and link has an amazing spam and zoning game.

good info, where would you put jiggs? and I really didnt base it on that I was merely stating that what made her what she was in melee is not as impressive now. Its just the fact that she has like absolutely no tournament representation as well as no good matchups makes it hard to put her any higher. Also yeah I get you with the yoshi thing. Alot of times ppl put yoshi at bottom which I disagree with, idk about putting him over gannon though. gannon has alot of grab combos and good kill moves going for him.

what do you think about: peach, yoshi, gannon, bowser, link,samus, jiggs?

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Why do people get so upset about their mains being put at lower tiers? I personally wish G&W were at a lower tier because I don't want him to be overused and lose his sex-appeal. I assume I'm not the only person to find G&W as oddly attractive, am I?

 

[chckn]

Why do people get so upset about their mains being put at lower tiers? I personally wish G&W were at a lower tier because I don't want him to be overused and lose his sex-appeal. I assume I'm not the only person to find G&W as oddly attractive, am I?

lol he's one sexy 2d piece of meat, and yeah I agree with what youre saying, like when brawl first came out I mained GW just because he was so sick and people didnt know it yet. But yeah thats what pisses me off more than anything is that people cant come to the reality that their character isnt automatically high tier just becasue they use them.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

lol he's one sexy 2d piece of meat, and yeah I agree with what youre saying, like when brawl first came out I mained GW just because he was so sick and people didnt know it yet. But yeah thats what pisses me off more than anything is that people cant come to the reality that their character isnt automatically high tier just becasue they use them.

I've used G&W ever since Melee! Now he's a dirty hoe. He's like a doorknob, everybody gets a turn! HE'S MY DOORKNOB!

 

[Deleted member]

Id say jiggs is above sonic, maybe 1 below him. Ganny has good pros but his cons are terrible. His recovery isnt as bad as the tethers, and at least he can gannycide, but its pretty bad, and the main thing is HES SO FREAKIN SLOW. Not his moves, his movement, he gets camped reaaally bad. He can do a lot of nasty stuff tho, with his side b, dair, and everything else. Uhh id say link goes right above ganny then yoshi right above link.

Bowser can stay, i dont know much about him, samus i dont know where she should be, i second her but i dunno =/

Peach on the other hand needs to be WAY up. Amazing fair, prioritastic bair, comboing dair, good uair, shes great. Her turnips were nerfed but she can stil do great things with them. Her usmash when sweetspotted kills at low percents, her ftilt is great now. Her fair autocancels and can lead to all sorts of goodies. Id say below lucas.

 

[chckn]

no way peach can be moved to the middle of mid tier. I would even hesitate to put her anywhere above ike, he may be slow and easilly gimpable, but his jab combos, easy kill moves and weight really cant be ignored. On top of that I dont know where peach looks compared to pt. PT has alot better tournament representation as well as matchups so idk about switching them, thats really debatable though. I mean yeah on paper with the autocanceled fair, glide toss on demand with the turnips and nice usmash she really just doesnt perform. Gannon despite how slow he moves, can still hold his own in competitive play. Look up sliq's gannon on youtube and youll see.

 

[Nestec]

@ Chckn's tier list:

Hmm, I don't know if Diddy needs to move down, or if Ness needs to move up. I don't really have specific in-game reasoning, but the two are about even. Their match-ups are currently equal, and Ness is starting to gain some higher tourney stats than Diddy. (Check the Rankings thread, Ankoku has not yet calculated Ness' stats, but he is listed as C-Rank, as of the latest update).

Now of course, the match-up chart isn't finished yet, but right now, that's where things stand...

EDIT: And yeah, Peach cannot make it to Middle. Right now her match-ups aren't looking too good, and her tourney representation is meh...

 

[Magik0722]

Roy is still top tier.

I am beginning to debate if Falco is above GAW or not. If not it is very close between them. In what I have seen in my local tournament scene is more falcos appearing then GAW and performing better. GAW does have amazing aerials though. Though what I am saying is the GAW and falco gap is small.