Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Valken]

Both Ness and Lucas are mid tier, Snake is high, Ganondorf, Yoshi and Sonic are all bottom tier no higher. Ike is definetly Top tier.

Why is Lucus Mid and not High?
Why is Snake High and not Top?
Why is Ike Top and not High?

It's an odd statement to make. I'm curious what your reasoning is behind those claims. To be honest, I would love to see Ike's potential unleashed to reveal Top Tier potential, but I just don't see that happening.

Most importantly though, why don't you see Snake as Top? I am not a Snake mainer, so no biased oppinon here. I just know his potential.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

A2ZOMG-

I agree. I don't have much experience playing a high level R.O.B. (or quite a few characters, for that matter), but it seems that G&W has a lot going for him. His light weight doesn't seem like much of a problem to me, especially because he is difficult to attack and get ko moves against.

PIMPSLAP-

Perhaps you are up for it, and you browse this forum frequently enough, but you lack of punctuation and your gross misuse of certain words frequently bothers me. Your content seems to warrant your intelligence, but your delivery makes you seem much less educated than the average bear. Please spend the extra second or two per post to add that 'k' onto 'now' so I don't have to reread your sentences to understand them. I don't mean to flame or begin an argument, I just think that clean and easy-to-read posting is an important part of moderators. *shrug*

Gishank sorry my friend i have a faulty operating system linux 10.3 on a faulty laptop and it generates words as i click the post button sorry dude.
my use of bad grammer and wrong use of words has to do with my laptop.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

I don't know if you guys ever go on shoryuken.com, but they know their fighting games and Brawl seems to be no exception. Their tier list, which I more or less agree with, is as follows:


Top:
Snake
Toon Link
Falco
Wolf
Marth
Metaknight

High:
Pit
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Zelda
Diddy Kong
Game & Watch
Zero Suit Samus
Lucas
Olimar
Luigi
Fox

Mid:
Kirby
Sheik
Ike
Lucario
Peach
Ness
Squirtle
Donkey Kong
Wario
Charizard

Low:
Jigglypuff
Link
Samus
Bowser
Yoshi
Captain Falcon

Bottom:
Sonic
Mario
Ivysaur
Ganondorf

What do you guys think?

thise is a ok list a little faulty but all around a good list i think this probally will be what are tier list looks like

 

[Valken]

The simple fact that they have a Tier List is enough to not look at it seriously. This topic is open for our oppinions to be heard and general oppinions of characters to be formed in an attempt to understand, at the most, who the good, decent, and bad characters are. That it it. We never try to make a Tier list, only propose ideas. I've seen Shoryuken's list befor and it was made far to quickly to be accurate. A few lucky placements and common sense is all this list has going for it. SBR said it themselves, "Don't ask about a Tier list for at least a year." That's coming from the official Tier list designers. So to have one right now is down right asinine.

All in all, this list is wrong. It seems they got the basics right and just threw in the rest wherever they wanted.

Close your eyes, point at the list, open your eyes. Did you laugh? Odds are that you did, because this list has got JOKES!

 

[coolish]

top:
sonic
lucario
wolf
ike
high:
bowser
kirby
marth
snake
donkey kong/diddy kong
game and watch
middle:
mario/luigi
peach
pikachu
wario
yoshi
samus
zero siut samus
fox/ falco
metaknight
dedede
ganon/falcon
ness/lucas
pokemon trainer
link/young link
sheik
low
zelda
jigglypuff
pit
ice climbers
captain olimar
bottom
ROB!!

 

[Frown]

top:
sonic
lucario
wolf
ike
high:
bowser
kirby
marth
snake
donkey kong/diddy kong
game and watch
middle:
mario/luigi
peach
pikachu
wario
yoshi
samus
zero siut samus
fox/ falco
metaknight
dedede
ganon/falcon
ness/lucas
pokemon trainer
link/young link
sheik
low
zelda
jigglypuff
pit
ice climbers
captain olimar
bottom
ROB!!

"Donkey Kong/Diddy Kong"? O.O

 

[Adamated]

The simple fact that they have a Tier List is enough to not look at it seriously. This topic is open for our oppinions to be heard and general oppinions of characters to be formed in an attempt to understand, at the most, who the good, decent, and bad characters are. That it it. We never try to make a Tier list, only propose ideas. I've seen Shoryuken's list befor and it was made far to quickly to be accurate. A few lucky placements and common sense is all this list has going for it. SBR said it themselves, "Don't ask about a Tier list for at least a year." That's coming from the official Tier list designers. So to have one right now is down right asinine.

I will agree with the majority of what you are saying, but I disagree in the situation of making/posting a mock tier list. Sure it is very inaccurate, but having a list like this one really helps the people consider the possibilities of a good tier list by leaning from mistakes like this one. Sure it isn't an entirely bad list but there will be major changes to it.

Personally I believe that Mario, Sonic, and Wario will all be pushed up on the list.

Wario will be mid-high High tier. He has a great recovery with his bike and not to mention the projectiles it gives are really nice.

Mario has a great ledge game but lacks a really good recovery, it isn't bad but it is definitely his worst aspect. The cape has been buffed with the ability to push enemies away in the air and the fludd has many uses that I'm sure are yet to be discovered.

Sonic will hit Mid-tier. His speed can be used amazingly and his unpredictability is nice. He has a great recovery, both vertically and horizontally. Now I'm not saying that he is an uber sweet character but this list definitely has him too low. Now he will not be top tier or even high tier unless they find something very game breaking for him. They've found a dash dance for him but even that isn't enough. He is developing stranger than almost any other character and I think we will be seeing much more from him in the future.

Ok, now please forgive my n00biness but can someone tell me why Snake is #1 on there? I'm not disagreeing; I just would like to know about it. I know he has a great Boost smash(or whatever it is called now) but is that enough for the #1 spot?

 

[Yuna-Maria]

The fact that coolish placed R.O.B. as the worst fighter in the game immediately eliminates all credibility that list could ever have.

 

[chansen]

top:
sonic
lucario
wolf
ike
high:
bowser
kirby
marth
snake
donkey kong/diddy kong
game and watch
middle:
mario/luigi
peach
pikachu
wario
yoshi
samus
zero siut samus
fox/ falco
metaknight
dedede
ganon/falcon
ness/lucas
pokemon trainer
link/young link
sheik
low
zelda
jigglypuff
pit
ice climbers
captain olimar
bottom
ROB!!

excellent first post man. way off though

top:
snake
g&w
rob
lucas

High:
Ike
D3
Toon Link
DK
PT
Wario

the rest really doesnt matter much, those are tha characters most people play already.

 

[Icege]

The simple fact that they have a Tier List is enough to not look at it seriously. This topic is open for our oppinions to be heard and general oppinions of characters to be formed in an attempt to understand, at the most, who the good, decent, and bad characters are. That it it. We never try to make a Tier list, only propose ideas. I've seen Shoryuken's list befor and it was made far to quickly to be accurate. A few lucky placements and common sense is all this list has going for it. SBR said it themselves, "Don't ask about a Tier list for at least a year." That's coming from the official Tier list designers. So to have one right now is down right asinine.

All in all, this list is wrong. It seems they got the basics right and just threw in the rest wherever they wanted.

Close your eyes, point at the list, open your eyes. Did you laugh? Odds are that you did, because this list has got JOKES!

This is by far one of the most ignorant post I've seen in this thread yet. That itself is saying a lot.

The game has been out for almost 3 months now. Within a month, Tekken 6 already had a fairly solid tier list.

Tier lists are supposed to change. Some people make the mistake of trying to make a list based off of what's good and now, and from those you see a large amount of deviation later in the life of the game. This is why going solely off of tournament results are faulty. However, on paper, it's fairly easy to figure out who's good and who's not.

As the game progresses, new techniques/set-ups might be found that can definitely improve a character's standing, but it's very rare that you will see a character ranked low early in the game suddenly turn around and be top. The possibility is there, of course.

I can't stress enough how a character suddenly playing extremely well with a character and winning tournaments by no means makes that character "good." Justin Wong can beat a majority of the US MvC2 scene with Ruby Heart/Ken/SonSon. That does not make either of those characters top/high tier.

Common sense alone should be able to tell you who is solid and who is not. It's fairly blatant that Snake, Pit, Toon Link, Wolf, Meta Knight, etc are all great characters in terms of being able to get the job done. Ganondorf and Captain Falcon? Not so much. Marth obviously has better tools than Mario. It's blatant. Denying that is a horrid attempt at being a blind idealist.

 

[Snakeee]

"Donkey Kong/Diddy Kong"? O.O

Well obviously, Diddy is just a DK clone >_>

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Well obviously, Diddy is just a DK clone >_>

Nice one....

 

[Sweetical]

i think thats a good list, but with all do respect to the maker, i'd like to add my opinion.
(I'm not going to make a stupid remark on a character I haven't played much with. For the most part I'll leave those characters alone.)

Link- I would move him up to mid tier, not because he's one of my mains, but because I know he's better than low tier. (fast enough to trade blow for blow with fast characters, decent power) and you can do a crap load of stuff with his bombs. His boomerang sux though. His down and up, and N air lost priority, but his dair has a considerably enlarged hitbox. (I've hit people above me with it, as well as in front)

Meta Knight-I would notch him down to high tier. He can combo like crazy, but the lack of killing moves and his light weight let other characters make up for that by leaving him with high damage by the time they respawn

Ivysaur- Get it off of bottom tier. He has fairly decent power and his smash attacks have good range. (up smash as great priority) As a matter of fact, many of his moves have priorty. I would at least move him to low tier, but it wouldn't matter because most people would use charizard any way.(I think)

Mario- I wouldn't exactly put him at bottom tier, but he isn't great either.

Sonic- I'd move him up to low or mid.

Luigi- It's tough to say exactly where I'd move him. Maybe a new tier level, mid/high

Lucas- Has some good moves, but I'd put him a rung down on the tier ladder from what I've seen of him.

zelda- put her in mid tier. I'd bring up shiek to high tier. Just a preference I guess, but I can't see why zelda is a tier above shiek.

Olimar- Olimar is good... but not high tier good. I'd rather classify him as mid/high myself, because he deserves better than medium. (Mostly, it's a pain rearanging your pikmin till you have the one you want, but if you have the right pikmin you can bring the hurt)


Those are all of the characters I knew something about that I would change. That just me though.
If you disagree, or want a further explanation on my choice as to why I would move a character, just ask.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Gishank sorry my friend i have a faulty operating system linux 10.3 on a faulty laptop and it generates words as i click the post button sorry dude.
my use of bad grammer and wrong use of words has to do with my laptop.

NO JOHNS!! XD

Meta Knight-I would notch him down to high tier. He can combo like crazy, but the lack of killing moves and his light weight let other characters make up for that by leaving him with high damage by the time they respawn...

Unless the player, ya know, has played Brawl before, in which case Meta Knight HAS lots of killing moves, and can get kills without taking a great deal of damage.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Luigi and Lucas are high tier. IMO, Sonic can probably be high tier too. If you know how to use them properly.....

 

[Trozz]

I always thought Donkey Kong was bottom tier until I saw him really used.
I thought Ganon was mid tier, but no one seems to be able to get any gusto out of him.

 

[Ørion]

Zamus gets top!!!

 

[m0rdin]

Hey, I'm still waiting for the reason to set Snake to No1. Like Adamated said it, I don't want to question it, I simply want to know why.

 

[Eddy01741]

I think there are a lot of characters that arn't in the spotlight that are way underrated, one of them is DK, since he sorta sucked in the last game, people assumed he would be just as awful in this game. While characters that get lots of attention nowadays, like Marth, Mk, Wolf, etc. are always in high or top tier.

 

[SaxDude93]

m0rdin, I had a post on page 203 (I think that page) that explained why Snake is a great character. Bit biased in the pro-Snake regards, but you can get the gist.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Just a suggestion, here: Instead of everyone shouting out their opinions for random characters, we make some sort of order here, discuss one character at a time, agree at about where they should be, considering their match-ups, and then move on. I just think it would be more productive.


Just my two cents.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Furthermore, he is one of the very few characters that doesn't have a projectile but can effectively counter campers. In a tournament scene that is camp heavy, that is HUGE. The bucket ruins characters that have a projectile as a big part of their game.

This is where you went wrong. G&W actually has a projectile, and it is seriously underrated as of now. It's much much better than it was in Melee due to increase in range, damage, and spamability. Think of it as Wolf's Blaster, except it can go at several different trajectories. G&W's Neutral B is GOOD.

Otherwise you pretty much have the right idea (didn't quote your entire post btw).

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

I think G&W is better than Metaknight. But that's just my opinion.

 

[BDawgPHD]

I think G&W is better than Metaknight. But that's just my opinion.

Fair enough, but this is why people like you don't make the tier list.

 

[furyberserk]

First off, the message about 2 posts above wasn't done by me at all. Second, I've seen many people type crappy as h*ll responses about the tier list.

Rules:
Make a list, tell who you think with a reason, or just correct others without any dumb opinions without proof. Also, this can't be because you main the character at all.(reliable on posting)

Now for my statement. The tiers would have to start with the melee tier list first. Fox, Falco, Sheik, etc., but would start by their pros and cons by their buffs and nerfs. Fox for example can't perform, nearly endless amounts of combos anymore which I believe made him god tier and he had some changes that makes him worse. With this so far, Fox is still Top until I find someone close to him that hasn't been nerf'd much or at all, like falco. Falco still has a good dash, and can do more shots in the air. This is the best way for the list or explanation should be writen, but since this isn't some dumb*ss teaching lesson lets start.

Top:
Pit-projectile, good offensive/deffensive, edgeguard, and recovery, can reflect attacks and opponents.
Metaknight-good offensive/defensive, chase opponent off the stage, edgeguard, but no projectile, can combo.
Fox-same as melee with most attacks, Firefox goes shorter distance, beam has distance limits, spike
Falco-same as melee, but no pillaring, can link shine, infinite laser distanse, infinite laser lock, spike
Wolf-Up B is faster or same lag as most moves, low lag in moves, can spike, high priority moves, strong
Toon Link-spike, but could fall in pit, arrows are slow(harder to dodge) fast, boomerang has large hit box.

This is it for top tier except Pokemon Trainer. I'm not going to get into that because he would likely be in top 4 of god with Toon Link, Pit and Fox...maybe. Add on to this and give some reasons for an artificial tier list and make any good stated objections.

Plus these characters do have some good advanced techs themselves like shellshifting and spiking and gliding(not really advanced, but tactical).

The tier list can't go by any metagame tactics but only posible tactics because I did dash shine with Fox as a 3 hit combo before(very hard and can replace the waveshine).

 

[furyberserk]

That must have been the most...obvious...unsuggested...most genius thing I've seen on the boards in the past month. I've been wondering who would finally mention that.

 

[Jing)]

Is it POSSIBLE it could be argued Samus could be high low or just medium? She has the best projectiles in the game basically, her zair is rediculous and entirely counters marth practically, and does really well vs others. Her arials and some tilts are nice too.. Not to mention she has a pretty decent spike. Only problem is finishing, which can be done spiking at like 70+% and smash/dtilt/bairetc at 115+%...

 

[thx]

okay heres my opinion

top (not in any order)

Falco, MetaK, D3, Snake GW Toon Link(i dont know about samus or sheik becasue i havent seen much play from them but i hear there also good marth might have a shot at this as well)

people who are high maybe rob wario pit pika diddy

these are like prolly the best characters in the game the rest are down there if anyone wants to ask me why or wants to debate me on it just let me kno

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Is it POSSIBLE it could be argued Samus could be high low or just medium? She has the best projectiles in the game basically, her zair is rediculous and entirely counters marth practically, and does really well vs others. Her arials and some tilts are nice too.. Not to mention she has a pretty decent spike. Only problem is finishing, which can be done spiking at like 70+% and smash/dtilt/bairetc at 115+%...

Well said.
I'd put Samus on the mid-tier, me. Her lack of KO power is the only flaw she has IMO.

 

[zuloon]

I say Ike is at the top

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I say Ike is at the top

*Cries*

If only it were true. Only two swordsman got the shaft in this game, Link and Ike.

The board recently discovered that any fast characters can actually interrupt the Jab combo with aerials. That's aerials, as in things that are capable of killing you. I practically gave up on Ike as a competitive character right then and there.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

meh, I made some minor changes to my tier list. *Hlods flame shield*

Top
===
Marth
Wolf
Toon Link


High
=====
Falco
Fox
Snake
Game and Watch
Ice Climbers
Pit
Pikachu
Ike
Olimar
Luigi
Metaknight
Zelda
Lucario
Lucas
R.O.B
Diddy

Mid
===
Sonic
Ness
ZSS
DeDeDe
Jiggs
Mario
DK
Peach
Kirby
C. Falcon
Link

Low
=====
Charzard
Bowser
Samus
Wario
Shiek



bottom
===
Ivysaur
Yoshi
Gannondorf


Comments? >_>

 

[Griffard]

your high tier i think has strange positionings. again, ivysaur shouldn't be bottom at all. not even low. medium at worst, absolutely.

 

[Eddy01741]

*Cries*

If only it were true. Only two swordsman got the shaft in this game, Link and Ike.

The board recently discovered that any fast characters can actually interrupt the Jab combo with aerials. That's aerials, as in things that are capable of killing you. I practically gave up on Ike as a competitive character right then and there.

Yeah, they seem to like all the swordsmen except Ike and Link. But anyways...

It's been discovered that if you hold down A for the AAA combo instead of tap it, people can't go from shield->aerial. I'm guessing the same is true for if you jab cancel (A, crouch (down on control stick), A, crouch, A), as I know for a fact that that is faster than just tapping A outright.

EDIT: Btw, swordmaster, Ivy and Charizard should be higher, and your missing Squirtle.

 

[Gishnak]

meh, I made some minor changes to my tier list. *Hlods flame shield*

Top
===
Marth
Wolf
Toon Link


High
=====
Falco
Fox
Snake
Game and Watch
Ice Climbers
Pit
Pikachu
Ike
Olimar
Luigi
Metaknight
Zelda
Lucario
Lucas
R.O.B
Diddy

Mid
===
Sonic
Ness
ZSS
DeDeDe
Jiggs
Mario
DK
Peach
Kirby
C. Falcon
Link

Low
=====
Charzard
Bowser
Samus
Wario
Shiek



bottom
===
Ivysaur
Yoshi
Gannondorf


Comments? >_>

Metaknight needs to be much higher. Metaknight is a better character than G&W. I have no personal experience in this, but Wolf >Falco? I know of a lot of Falco users that would probably disagree. DeDeDe is much better than several characters you listed in high.

There are several other things worth arguing, but that's what I have to throw in.

 

[Pringer X]

IMHO...

Top (Note: Characters are in no particular order for all the tiers)
-
Metaknight
Falco
R.O.B.
Mr. G&W
Snake

High
-
Marth
Toon Link
King Dedede
Wolf
Pikachu
Olimar
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda

Middle
-
Pit
Lucario
Wario
Ike
Kirby
Ice Climbers
Luigi
Ness
Fox
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Shiek
Bowser

Low
-
Link
Charizard
Peach
Samus
Donkey Kong
Mario

Bottom
-
Jigglypuff
Sonic
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Yoshi

I realize some of these may be a little off (or way off to some people), so feel free to correct me if you feel like it.

 

[Dunn]

My only problem with tier lists is that too many people base who they play on their rank. You should pick your character because you personally like their play style, not because they're top or high tier. Too often this whole mess turns into a popularity contest rather than an actual list.

That being said, I for the most part agree with Pimpslap. I have a few personal opinions that I feel would be good changes, however my opinion is based more on my preferences rather than tourney wins, so ill leave that specifics to those with better insight than I.

 

[bigphil233]

Just got back from a 40 man tournament

Just got out of a tournament I attended, 3 stock double elimination battlefield or final destination only, no items etc etc.

As you would expect tons of star fox characters and seemingly the most dominant of them being wolf.

He's down B is just infinitely better than both other fox clones and seemingly stopped most of the attacks I directed at him as Diddy Kong.

Wolf is easily in the highest (god) tier as his moves are unpredictable and he can stop many characters aerials and ground attacks simply by ducking and down Bing.

DeDeDe won the tournament with barely any scratches on him as shield-chain grabbing was his common tactic as well as heavy levels of pursuance. Easily put him in the top bracket as he killed numerous amounts of foxes falcos and wolf's with easy to use tactics and general levels of skill.

Other than that Game and Watch had a surprise showing of greatness as he was the only one capable of beating dedede after the tournament was over simply by out maneuvering him, and frying pan spam.

Whilst he shouldn't belong in the God Tier I'd certainly place him somewhere in the High.

I feel like a time limit (which wasn't imposed would probably have stopped dedede from being able to turtle as he was never really on the offense)

bleh

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I'm curious about the comparisons between Fox/Falco. Most people seem to be putting Falco higher, I'm not saying there wrong, since I don't have much experience with either of them, I'm just curious for the reasons. From what I have seen Falco's advantages are that he has a chaingrab, his laser is better, and he has a good spike. But Fox seems better at a lot of other things too, like having a better shine, and what appears to me to be an overall better aerial game, as well as more effective KO moves. So what makes Falco better?

 

[dafreakinpope]

My Opinion on tiers

Top
-Pit
-Fox
-Lucas - In my opinion Lucas is one of the best characters in the game due to his Variety of projectiles and the amount of killing moves (All Smashes can kill. up smash in particular has the ability to kill at low 70s and Lucas has some invincible frames during the attack. Along with his U special for edge-guarding and chasing the smash ball) Lucas is IMO one of the top character in SSBB ( i don't main Lucas)
-Marth
-Wolf

High
-Toon Link
-Falco
-G&W
-Zero suit Samus
-MetaKnight
-Diddy Kong
-Zelda

Medium-high
-Olimar
-Link
-Snake
-Pikachu
-Sonic
-Ike
-Sheik
-Kirby
-Lucario

Medium-Low
-Ness
-R.O.B.
-Pokemon Trainer
-Mario
-Samus
-Luigi
-Dedede

Low
-DK
-Ice Climbers
-JigglyPuff
-Wario
-Yoshi
-Captain Falcon
-Peach

Bottom
-Bowser
-Ganondorf

Mains
Diddy Kong, Sonic, Fox

Let me know what you think of this list and would like people to rethink their opinion on Lucas. Maybe Lucas shouldn't be quite that high i just wanted people to look at him a little closer and maybe try him out he is a lot better then people make him out to be. I also thought nobody ever really tried him out so i want people to try him out and let me know what you guys think about him.