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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

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Valken

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
137
Against any good player you will have to work hard. That's a fact. Zelda has to work hard to land her hits but they are much more rewarding than the characters who don't have to work that hard to land them. It's a balance. The fact that Zelda is so light is what keeps her from Top. She doesn't have the dodging potential that Fox has so she's easy to kill.

Hard to hit with, attacks are insanely quick and pay off well, great camper, easy to kill.

Sounds like mid to bottom of High Tier to me.
 

PIMPSLAP

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Snakes BAIR
I agree with most of that list. I would have put PT mid, and luigi mid to high. even including grabs, is the ice climbers really on the top of high? The top-mid right now is still very solid. a lot of people forget about G&W, and im glad you put him in his spot.

I am not a big authority, and I am only trying to help your list.
thanks for the advice but ice climbers are starting to dominate the tourny scene being that it is unaturally easy to zero to death and chain and what not.


On a side note Zelda and sheik together actually works know and know the combination actually provides valid reasson for switching being that zelda can camp. Sheik is great at aplying pressure kinda anti camps. So there you have it a camper and a pressure abuser.

Lucas is decent in attacks and ghey with pk dash (thats what i call it) but he only has couple kill moves. and he is easy to kill scense he's a light character.

Lucario Only has his grabs every thing else is laggy and kinda predictible sorry but thats how i see it.

I already put ressons why i put kirby low find it(tears up)...

Luigi Is predictible and punishible on the ground(was good when the game came out no som much know) he's recovery is for see able So he become predictible again and gimpable...

Fox is not top tier because he gets counterd by the top tier chars Also he's lost alot of things he had going for him in the old game. and only got like 2 boost D-air to kicks to smash and up smash. They lowerd his reflect sheild frames making it harder for him shine spike.And even when he does they usally recover.

Bum and that guy that won the tourny will be the reasson dk goes up through the ranks.

In respect to all the dk players i will pick up dk for a week and use him see what you guys see in him( reading the manuall as i type) :)

 

SK8orDIE

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
145
Location
Huntsville, AL
I agree with the positive DK observations. He's a great character and being underestimated has always been one of his assets. I think Snake is a sturdy high-mid tier character. At the moment, I feel like his only terrible match-up is Falco: recovery gimp and chaingrab.

I know this is crazy, but I think Yoshi is underrated. Sure his recovery sucks, but it's not terrible like it used to be. Two egg tosses that aid recovery, super-fast arials, fast tilts, and down-b all make him a better character. Plus, the floatiness of this game has given him arial horizontal mobility and thus arial superiority. Bair and down-b outprioritize many characters, btw. These are just my findings.
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
DK has absurd range on his tilts, isn't terribly slow, and is really strong. I think he outranges Ike, although this is merely a guess. You'll have to work harder to dodge ****, but I think DK is a very promising character, I want to put him at high tier.
 

Dynamism?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
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Location
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This is my regularly updated Tier List for AiB. I thought I might as well post it here for you.




:: ^ = has gone up :: v = has gone down :: + = almost went up :: - = almost went down ::
(Update 04/13)

Current Top
Random ++++

Tier 1
Pikachu
Diddy Kong
Zelda/Sheik -
Metaknight ^
Mr. Game & Watch -
Ice Climbers ^

Tier 2
Toon Link
Yoshi v
Luigi
Falco -
Kirby
Donkey Kong

Tier 3
Mario
Marth v
King Dedede ^
Pit
Snake +
ROB +

Tier 4
Pikmin & Olimar
Zero Suit Samus +
Ness ^
Link ^
Wolf v
Lucas v

Tier 5
Pokemon Trainer +
Samus +
Jigglypuff
Peach -
Wario
Ike ^

Tier 6
Bowser +
Fox +
Ganon +
Lucario +
Sonic
Captain Falcon v
 

PIMPSLAP

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
1,189
Location
Snakes BAIR
on a side note thise what tournys are looking like lolz
4/12 Trash Day 4 Results and shoutouts
Okay, so this is the results thread for
Trashday 4
on
April 12th

1v1's
1. T-rex (Snake)
2. Jra64 (Ice climbers/ Marth/ Metaknight)
3. Roy (Marth/Metaknight)
4. Sethlon (Falco/Ike)
5. Stiltzskin (Olimar)
5. Felix (Metaknight)
7. Pozerwolf (Snake)
7. Hylian (Game+Watch/ Ice climbers)
9. DMK (Metaknight)

I got 13th with kirby...

The reason dk is so low is becuase he's lak of kill moves and is out priorytized by most top tier chars.... and
I see your point tjough his naners pwn in most cases but thats about it.
It's hard being non biased my friend
 

Testament27

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
438
Location
Nawlins
Before you post, consider this statistic.

99 out of every 100 posts in this topic are full of fail. 82% of posters on this thread have no.... i repeat..... NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

idiots

facepalm
 

Corner-Trap

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
535
Location
Fayetteville, NC
Before you post, consider this statistic.

99 out of every 100 posts in this topic are full of fail. 82% of posters on this thread have no.... i repeat..... NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

idiots

facepalm
Considering that your post served no other purpose but to downplay the other posters in this thread, and that it contributed nothing to the actual conversation, I consider your post the biggest fail of all.

facepalm
 

Snakeee

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
3,904
Location
Staten Island, NY
yep in MELEE where he was good i use him for fun all the time But thats for fun and 1,000,000,000 points to Bum making him competive.
Just realized I never responded to this. Well, Bum's been doing great in the Brawl NYC weekiles, usually in the top three, and there are at least 2 other awesome DK players in NY right now.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Coppell TX
Top Tier:
Snake
Falco
Meta Knight
Wolf
Marth
Toon Link

High Tier:
R.O.B.
Diddy Kong
Mr. Game and Watch
Zelda
Pit
King Dedede
Pikachu
Lucas
Olimar


High-Mid Tier:
Fox
Ness
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus
Ice Climbers
Shiek
Pokemon Trainer

Mid Tier:
Luigi
Wario
Lucario
lke
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Jigglypuff


Low tier:
Sonic
Peach
Link
Yoshi

Bottom Tier:
Captain Falcon
Mario
Samus
Ganondorf

Comment on my list Please >_>
 

PaTT

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
11
Here's a tier list I made. Rate & critique I guess.

Top Tier
1) Toon Link
2) Meta Knight
3) Marth
High Tier
4) King DeDeDe
5) Wolf
6) Ike
7) Falco
8) Wario
9) Snake
10) Mr Game & Watch
Middle Tier
11) Pit
12) Fox
13) Diddy Kong
14) Zelda
15) Olimar
16) Donkey Kong
17) Kirby
18) Lucas
19) Luigi
20) ROB
21) Ice Climbers
22) Captain Falcon
Low Tier
23) Sonic
24) Lucario
25) Ness
26) Pikachu
27) Pokemon Trainer
28) Zero Suit Samus
29) Sheik
30) Bowser
Bottom Tier
31) Samus
32) Ganondorf
33) Mario
34) Jigglypuff
35) Peach
36) Yoshi
37) Link
 

PIMPSLAP

Smash Lord
Joined
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1,189
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Snakes BAIR
Nigerian Star
Are list are almost the same why not just join up with my list.?.



Snakee so i've seen i laughing and crying when i saw bum beat isai.(nasty)
 

blackfox2765

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
21
Question

Why is King DeDeDe so high in the tiers usually slow characters r lower...

im just curious if some 1 could plz explain
 

Illussionary

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
293
Location
ATL, Georgia
Well I've been surfing these tier lists, dang... you guys are wayyyyyyyy off so far. So for future reference actually learn a little bit about a character before you randomly place them.
 

PIMPSLAP

Smash Lord
Joined
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No prob

Mmmmm.Chicken Sandwhich.

so that will save some room nigerian

Illusionary whos list are refresing to exactly.
 

AlphaDragoon2002

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
925
Location
Phoenix, AZ
NNID
AlphaDragoon02
Ike will probably hit upper tier when all is said and done. He gets ganked hard by a lot of the top tiers but he breaks even with or straight up flattens the mid/low/bottom tiers. He has massive power and range, can destroy a lot of characters' air game, and has actually decent edgeguarding. And if you make a mistake against him...you're probably done for.

So, probably low end of upper tier.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
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SSBM_PLAYER
Top
Meta Knight
Game and Watch
ROB
Snake

High
Toon Link
Pit
Wolf
Diddy Kong
Fox
Pikachu

Mid
Marth
Falco
Dedede
Olimar
Sheik
Ice Climbers
Lucas
Kirby

Low
Lucario
Wario
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Mario
Pokemon Trainer
Samus
Ness
Ike
Peach
Bowser

Bottom
DK
Link
Sonic
Gannon
Yoshi
C. Falcon
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
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Scotch Plains, NJ
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ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
^^^^^^^^^^^^No.

Why are Diddy and Pikachu so high?

And Fox for that matter.
 

PIMPSLAP

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
1,189
Location
Snakes BAIR
Are list kinda match ankoku i have alot of respect for you. So i think your list ok but kinda messed up on something but of course my list has flaws too.
 

Grandeza

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
4,035
Location
Brooklyn,New York
^^^^^^^^^^^^No.

Why are Diddy and Pikachu so high?

And Fox for that matter.
Because Diddy Kong has nanners which totally own. They help in all situations. He has numerous spikes. He has a good ground game and a great air game. He has average k.o. moves and good priority. Whats holding him back is his gimpable recovery.
 

PIMPSLAP

Smash Lord
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Snakes BAIR
Because Diddy Kong has nanners which totally own. They help in all situations. He has numerous spikes. He has a good ground game and a great air game. He has average k.o. moves and good priority. Whats holding him back is his gimpable recovery.
i gave him all that in my list and responding to you earlyer (two thumbs up for reping ganon:) )
 

SaxDude93

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
186
Location
Somewhere outside of Phiily
Just a little essay I wrote. And even though this is my first post, it is well thought out. (Well, more than the average first post)

Snake: A God Among Men

Why is Snake A God Among Men? First off, in his games, canonically, Snake is a badass. Much more of a badass than Mario, Yoshi, Kirby, etc. But since canonically counts for jack, I will explain why Snake is a God for several reasons. He has godly tilts, a very good pressure and mindgame game, and can kill with barley lifting a finger. Also, he has a box.

Going along with the tilts, Snake’s neutral A combo is a beast. Basically, it is two jabs and a roundhouse kick. Normally, neutral A combos aren’t that good, but Snake’s is. It can be used as offense or defense. On offense, it can be used here or there for massive knockback and damage. On defense, if a person is approaching, you can hit him with this and they will go flying giving you time to breath. The kick has a deceptively long range so opponents can be caught off guard. Also, you can miss with both jabs and still hit with the kick. The neutral A combo is rather lacking against small characters and disjointed hitboxes. (More on counter later)

Now the tilts. Snake’s ftilt is at the awesome level already, and bordering on the broken level. “Whoever came up with Snake's ftilt either wanted to break the game, or make it extremely unbalanced."* And the ftilit is just that. But I’m not complaining. The ftilt is a knee-fist combo that is godly. It can be used as a clear or as a KO move. This should’ve been Snake’s fsmash. It is that good. The knee is a grounded version of the knee of justice. It has ridiculous knockback and can perform a tech called a Knee Lock. Oh, and the fist portion has a WTFHOW range hitbox that borders on disjointed level. Very cool. However…

I would also like to add that the hitbox on snake's up tilt is quite possibly the most broken, unfair, unrealistic thing I've ever witnessed in a video game in my life, where his foot hardly goes anywhere but the hitbox might as well be Marth or Ike's sword held out really far in front of them going upwards with massive force and priority.”**When I said that Snake’s ftilit was godly and broken, I lied. Snake’s utilt has a freaking hitbox the size of a sword. Snake kicks the air. How is that possible? But I’m not complaining. It is one hell of a KO move, and with the hitbox, it can surprise the hell out of some people. Utilt=God

Snake also has pressure and mindgames. Lay down mines/C4 and you’re opponent will be usually be wary of them, trying not to make a mistake and land on a mine. This retrained focus is a mindgame of sort. Said focus can be used as an advantage to the Snake player, say… chain grabbing the enemy. It involves the down throw. The down throw lays the other person on the ground where they either roll or get up. Normally, the Snake player has to guess what the victim is going to do, but that can be easily countered by mindgames. The victim will chose the option that leads to the most safety. That usually involves rolling away from the edge. And the victim will also usually roll away from mines placed earlier. If the victim forgets the mines, they get hurt. If they roll away from something, Snake knows where they will be going and can chain throw. If they get up in the spot, shield throw them. Mindgames, tons of them.

Snake also has a pressure game that involves his grenades. For example, if you have an opponent that is charging you, Snake can throw a grenade at various angles. The explosion itself is secondary. The primary effect is that the opponent either has to take the hit, catch it, or dodge it. All three of them stop the attack or at least the momentum of it. Other grenades can go under pressure and mindgames. Take the grenade counter as one. The choice is either don’t attack, or attack Snake and get nailed by the impending explosion. Other examples of pressure include the mortar and its various techs.

Snake has other techniques that are very good. Mortarsliding is just one of them. Grenade stripping is another. A third is mortar grabbing. All of Snake’s techs are incredibly good. He deserves to be placed in the first tier or upper-second at the lowest. Snake is that good. He combines hitboxes that are disjointed in nature, even though they are melee and explosion based, power, mindgames, and pressure into one package. Even his recovery is above average. His moves are versatile, ranging from booby-traps to helping Snake recover again. Snake is a combination of brain and brawn, stealth and brute force. The perfect combination.

This is Snake. A badass who doesn’t play by the rules. He plays to win. Some people may consider him cheap, as he doesn’t have to lift a finger to deal damage. All I have to say is…

In the American revolution, the English marched into battle standing in neat rows with red uniforms.
The Americans lied prone and found cover.
The English were like "Dude you guys are cowards, stand up and get shot!"
And the Americans said "QQ you lil scrub. LOL" and opened a 3 inch hole in the Brit's face.


And Snake has a box. The box is just one part of Snake’s awesomeness. Long live Snake.

*darkatma
**M2K
 

VirtualVoid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
333
Location
Israel
I wonder when will people stop placing the IC so low just because they dont know anything about them and have never been chained from 0 to death with no hope to escape.

Their approach doesn't suck, blizzards outrange alot of characters, iceblocks stop alot of projectiles, you can still do well without Nana and besides you wont even lose Nana so easily if you dont desync recklessly.

Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF6Gfa63TaA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiW90quHDqg
 

PIMPSLAP

Smash Lord
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i put him at high tier void i saw pwnage first hand i now there power lols and sax dude even though snake is top tier in like all the list...
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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^^^^^^^^^^^^No.

Why are Diddy and Pikachu so high?

And Fox for that matter.
Diddy has good priority aerials, a strong edgeguarding game, decent projectiles, and a strong ground game. He has a rather disappointing recovery, but the better one is played, the less that matters, right?

Pikachu has a spammable projectile, relatively high-priority attacks, good movement speed, a decent nair, a strong fsmash and fast usmash, a VERY far-reaching recovery, and Quick-Attack Cancel. Why shouldn't he be high?

Fox's usmash is still just as strong as it was in Melee. His dair combos into finishers. He has a lasting Shine which can work to repel a lot of projectile-camping strategies. His recovery goes pretty far. Fox still moves fast. He has a projectile of his own to play a keep-away game while still dealing out damage. His usmash is strong and he can still do it straight from a dash.
 

Dynamism?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,136
Location
BC, Canaaaanada
Top
Meta Knight
Game and Watch
ROB
Snake

High
Toon Link
Pit
Wolf
Diddy Kong
Fox
Pikachu

Mid
Marth
Falco
Dedede
Olimar
Sheik
Ice Climbers
Lucas
Kirby

Low
Lucario
Wario
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Mario
Pokemon Trainer
Samus
Ness
Ike
Peach
Bowser

Bottom
DK
Link
Sonic
Gannon
Yoshi
C. Falcon

lol Wait a second!!!? ;)

Yes, I still like it where ever it shows up. (this is the same one right?)

Of Pika, Diddy and Fox, Fox is the only one I think has the possibility to drop. He might drop alot. His Dair leads to a lot, but it can be avoided/countered. At this point I can't tell but unless there are some dramatic discoveries with him that either strengthen his dair play or something else he can use along with his great dair game, then I think he may be too 1 tracked for his own good. That is all though, Pika and Diddy pwn!
 

Affinity

Smash Hero
Joined
May 27, 2006
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6,876
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Wichita, KS
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Affinity2412
IMO...

Top
Marth
Toon Link

High
Lucas
Ice Climbers
Meta Knight
Falco
Zero Suit Samus
Olimar
Pit
Wolf

Mid
Ike
Game & Watch
Wario
Diddy Kong
Zelda
ROB
Dedede
Ness
Snake

Low
Kirby
Pikachu
Bowser
Fox
Lucario
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Jigglypuff
Mario
Sheik
Luigi

Bottom
DK
Samus
Ganondorf
Link
C. Falcon
Yoshi
 

SwordmasterXXXI

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
430
Location
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
I updated my tier list and made the changes I thought were reasonable.

Top
===
Marth
Wolf
Toon Link


High
=====
Falco
Snake
Fox
Game and Watch
Ice Climbers
Pit
Ike
Olimar
Luigi
Lucario
Metaknight
Lucas
Pikachu
Diddy
R.O.B

Mid
===
ZSS
Jiggs
DeDeDe
Zelda
Sonic
Mario
DK
Ness
Kirby
C. Falcon
Link

Low
=====
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Shiek
Charzard
Ivasaur


bottom
===
Samus
Yoshi
Gannondorf
 
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