Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[J0K3R]

Ic are not weak they have a great recovery and even with Nana gone i would still pwn

Amen. I mained them in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

ROB will never be high tier ever he's to groggy and difficult to maneuver well.

-Has two projectiles (Standard and down-b)
-Side-b reflects projectiles
-Up-b is a broken recovery

 

[VEC]

Ok, I mained Piakchu and Luigi in all the games, They all have their pros and cons now I think they are around the mid tiers, what do you gusy think?

 

[Sensai]

On a tier list we should list PT as one character. However, when considering matchups for making the tier list we need to think of all 3 separately. Suppose there is a character in the game who counters Charizard, is an even matchup for Squirtle, and who Ivysaur counters. The PT player will probably try to spend as much of the match as possible as Ivysaur, and try to switch from Charizard as quickly as possible. Also, switching mid-stock does take time, and leaves you vulnerable. Something to consider...

Ok, this I can agree with....see this comment:

I think your logic is a bit screwy. Think of it this way: tier lists are more about MATCHUPS, not about the outcomes of entire matches. It's entirely possible for Charizard to be horrible against Pikachu and yet Ivysaur and Squirtle to be great. Of course you are going to have to use Charizard at some point in the match, at least for a moment, but that doesn't matter. Tiers are about MATCHUPS-- in the time during which Pikachu faces Charizard, who has the advantage? For instance, Fox is top tier in Melee because he has favorable matchups than anyone else. It's very, very, VERY possible to completely cut one pokemon from your playstyle if you just switch out every time that one comes up. The pokemon should be ranked individually, for sure.

This is what I view the purpose of a tier list to be. It should be, generally and normally, how one character fares against another. So, as adumbrodeus puts it, it's a matter of definition.

In this sense, that is the sense of the tier list as a quick match up reference, the characters should be separated so that you can see how Charizard does against Pikachu. However, in your idea of a tier list (where it is more of a shorthand for who should win the match), it makes more sense to keep PT whole, as it is simply impossible for him to play with only one pokemon throughout a match.

So...I guess it's just a matter of definition. I personally don't care one way or another, but it is an interesting problem. I suppose it's just going to be however the majority of the backroom feels about the tier list.

I haven't checked any pages save 103 and 104...so if I missed any PT discussion, apologies.

So...7 pages in a day. My (clearly exagerrated [spelling!]) 20 pages wasn't all that far off, haha.

 

[BDawgPHD]

The only tier i support is the OMG NINJAS tier

How about the flaming homosexual tier, I think that's pretty accurate. Also Meta Knight needs a "sexy latin swordsman of doom" tier, cuz he ***** *****es.

 

[unii]

t they really dont mean anything they are reallyfun to look and see if your chacters at the top my top and bottom tiers are


marth
metaknight
wolf
link
mario
and

whatever

 

[J0K3R]

I thought meta was spanish?

 

[Awesomethreat]

Mid Characters:
Olimar: Master camper. Too dependant on Pikmin to be high tier.

Olimar is easily Upper Tier, and yeah he's dependent on pikmin, but you can always get more so there's no problem.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

my tier list
top tier.
everybody
you guys like that????

 

[PIMPSLAP]

It may be too soon to come out with a tier list but...
This is my opinion of how some characters will place (no order) :
Top characters:
Marth: Not as fast, but has better Knockback, U-Smash has better range, good killer and he still has mad combo and edgeguarding skills and a 1 hit KO FS to boot.
Toon Link: Whups Link in almost every category except size and has a sick spike. B-air is great.
Sonic: Really fast, Great char. not much left 2 say.

Mid Characters:
Olimar: Master camper. Too dependant on Pikmin to be high tier.
G&W: Didn't expect this. Great combo ablilty and a lot of better changes from Melee. Great Kill potential.
Meta Knight: Has good combo ability but lacks killing moves. FS kinda sucks.
Ike: Powerful but waaaaaaay too slow.

Low Characters:
Ganondorf: See Ike. Big. Easy target.
Ice Climbers: Weak when separated. Only thing that shines is their recovery, but oops...there goes nana. FS is easily dodgeable.

I know I didn't put everybody.
Peach, Shiek, Falco and Fox got nerfed, the princesses the most.

shok are you shok from H-Town?

 

[Furbs]

lol naw guys we all know sakurai logged countless hours balancing the game to make it perfect...right....right!?

 

[Gindler]

Olimar is easily Upper Tier, and yeah he's dependent on pikmin, but you can always get more so there's no problem.

Olimars major problem is yoshi, his egg roll barrels through pikmin unstopped, His bair cuts any pikmin to shreads, his Dair destroys them easily too, basically against an assumed low tier character (i think he deserves upper middle tier) olimar gets pwned so I can't see why he'd be upper tier when he's that paper to yoshi's scissors.

 

[J0K3R]

Olimars major problem is yoshi, his egg roll barrels through pikmin unstopped, His bair cuts any pikmin to shreads, his Dair destroys them easily too, basically against an assumed low tier character (i think he deserves upper middle tier) olimar gets pwned so I can't see why he'd be upper tier when he's that paper to yoshi's scissors.

Always good to see yoshi hopefuls.

 

[redgreenblue]

I tend to treat the tear list like I do toilet paper, its good for wiping your *** with and thats about it. Whats its existence for anyway? It serves no practical purpose other than "OMG guys Marth is better than yoshi lolz!"

Just STFU and play whoever you like, thats what I say.

Anyway, my list:

Flaming Homosexual Tier:
Marth

Awesome Haircut Tier:
Ike

Dinosaur Tier:
Yoshi

WTF were they smoking when they added these characters? Tier:
Game and Watch
Wolf
Diddy Kong
ROB

Big mother****ers tier:
Bowser
DK
Ganondorf
DeDeDe

Hottie Tier:
Samus
ZSS
Zelda

OMG NINJAS! Tier:
Shiek

Thanks Nintendo, now I have to deal with horrifying furry fan art sigs at Smash Boards Tier:
Fox
Falco

Never puts out Tier:
Peach

HAHA NO KILL MOVES tier:
Metaknight
Sonic

Mario Bros Tier:
Mario
Luigi

Anal Lube Tier:
Wario
Captain Falcon

Multi-Character Tier:
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers

Why the hell not? We've already added everyone else! Tier:
Toon Link
Snake

PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE OH GOD SPAMMING THIS IS SO MUCH FUN Tier:
Ness
Lucas

Link Tier:
Link

I forgot to mention these people because I'm too lazy Tier:
Everyone else

Thats the only list you need. Everything else is garbage. :D

WTF dog Falco isn't furry, he has feathers

 

[KingRedX]

I see the top and high tiers going:

Top:
Dedede
Olimar
Toonlink
Marth

High:
Game & Watch
Rob
Ike
luigi
fox
Falco
wolf

something to that effect

 

[J0K3R]

Where's the latin/spanish gender confused mumbling lightweight kirby impersonator that we all know and love. He's at least somewhere in high.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

heres your love
he's top tier like everybody on my tier list he's............TOP TIER!

 

[SiSiMeN]

Yes really, but heres why

Okay going through this thread I've seen MK way up on the tier lists and from everything I've seen from videos and just playing with him I put him middle at best. Now I realize theres a lot of morons on the board that are just spamming lists because theyre under the illusion that they are good but I've seen it so much I'm curious as to why. So, can someone please explain what I'm missing about his game that makes him so godly?

<3 Sheen <3

He is ridiculously fast, and his aerial game is godly. He is moving up the list and is now my second main. Try juggling someone with his aerial up A, then press up B to finish it off, you can kill someone at 50% or lower if you get them high enough. (you have to be good, but the potential is there, however I think people spamming him on the tops of their lists is because they think he is fast, and that is not why he is great. And just to clarify, it looks fancy but his neutral a on ground attack sucks balls.)

 

[SiSiMeN]

Olimars major problem is yoshi, his egg roll barrels through pikmin unstopped, His bair cuts any pikmin to shreads, his Dair destroys them easily too, basically against an assumed low tier character (i think he deserves upper middle tier) olimar gets pwned so I can't see why he'd be upper tier when he's that paper to yoshi's scissors.

You're only saying that because your best character is yoshi, however.... Yoshi pwns. (he is my main also :-P )

However to say he is "better" than olimar would probably be dumb, olimar is a little more ranged, and idk, they are probably equal in the hands of a good player. (potentially olimar could probably be better, but it doesnt matter because it all depends on how good the player is, and I like Yoshi better.)

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Da da DOUBLEPOST!!! watch it your get a point for that and then get banned and on a side note everybody's top tier

 

[WaffleJesse]

My tier list:
Skill of the player
Top:
Everyone

 

[PIMPSLAP]

your awesome aswell you see what i see your cool

 

[WaffleJesse]

I think we shouldn't even have a tier list! It just ruins the game! I want to have the most fun playing the game not people telling me, L0LZ j00 suck bcause yu use Metknight!!!!! L0LZ!!! Nuuuuu I want a game that I can play without anyone complaining!

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Well there will be one but just be awesome like me and don't look at it lolz i didn't and placed high in some tournys i have wen't too lol

 

[SiSiMeN]

I think we shouldn't even have a tier list! It just ruins the game! I want to have the most fun playing the game not people telling me, L0LZ j00 suck bcause yu use Metknight!!!!! L0LZ!!! Nuuuuu I want a game that I can play without anyone complaining!

Hah, good luck with that. And I agree, tier lists are pointless, but its something to talk and discuss basically about the potential of characters.

Da da DOUBLEPOST!!! watch it your get a point for that and then get banned and on a side note everybody's top tier

I was replying to things I could not multi quote on (they weren't on the same page.)
Don't worry, I don't care about getting my post count up. Also, I disagree, everyone is not top tier, there will always be characters that are just too slow to compete with faster characters (assuming the two players are of an equal skill level.) Basically what I am saying (so I dont get argued with) is no matter what you want to say about it, if two players are of the exact same skill level with one playing as bowser and one playing as Yoshi, Yoshi will win. (and that is because Yoshi is a middleweight, therefore he has speed and survivability, whereas bowser is slow and has survivability.)

 

[uberdan101]

I agree with Pimp and Waffle that the tier lists are STUPID. They are flawed and pointless. As we've seen w/ Chudat, any character can be really good in the hands of a player who knows how to use them. Play the character that you enjoy and are good at!

 

[SiSiMeN]

I agree with Pimp and Waffle that the tier lists are STUPID. They are flawed and pointless. As we've seen w/ Chudat, any character can be really good in the hands of a player who knows how to use them. Play the character that you enjoy and are good at!

The ice climbers guy? I just looked up a youtube video of him fighting some other dude and he grabbed him like 30 times in a row.... idk he may be good, but dang theres a difference between skill and cheap trick tactics.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Hah, good luck with that. And I agree, tier lists are pointless, but its something to talk and discuss basically about the potential of characters.



I was replying to things I could not multi quote on (they weren't on the same page.)
Don't worry, I don't care about getting my post count up. Also, I disagree, everyone is not top tier, there will always be characters that are just too slow to compete with faster characters (assuming the two players are of an equal skill level.) Basically what I am saying (so I dont get argued with) is no matter what you want to say about it, if two players are of the exact same skill level with one playing as bowser and one playing as Yoshi, Yoshi will win. (and that is because Yoshi is a middleweight, therefore he has speed and survivability, whereas bowser is slow and has survivability.)

your funny because brawl is dessigned against fast and big people being equall seriously look at dede verse sonic dede wins lolz i know what im talking about...
BRAWLS ABOUT PRIOTY AND NOT SPEED THISE IS FACT
MELEE IS DIF STORY

 

[Dan_X]

Hello, I am new to the forums (though I have been keeping up with the tier list discussion daily). However, I am an experienced player in both brawl and melee. I played competitively with people like darkrain and mewtwo king from melee (I believe they were the top two players of the midwest in America for melee before brawl was released). I will in a future post release my own tier list; however, I do not have the time right now. But I would like to say that I think falco should be top tier. I know I'll prolly get a lot of flack for posting this but here are the reasons why I think falco should be top tier

- If any of his opponents are at low to zero health he can chain Dthrow them and finish with a running kick into up smash for a combo that does damage anywhere from 40-60% (depends on the weight of the opponent). If anyone needs video proof of this I'd be happy to upload one.

- His aerials have high priority. To my knowledge has the only Dair besides marth that cancels olimar's Usmash (and I think we can all agree Olimar's smash moves have insane priority in general) and his other aerials are just as good except his neutral.

- His forward smash may not be the quickest but his Usmash and Dsmash make up for it. They both have huge priority and come out very fast.

- The ability to do a running attack with an Usmash right after it. This technique with falco is usually fast enough that it is non-shield grabbable unless they power-shield.

- His laser and reflector are good enough to usually stop any long range spam from characters like young link

- Lastly he has two good spikes off the edge. You can jump off the ledge past someone and the the falco phantasm (it is a spike in this one too) to get back, or you can simply jump off and do a Dair.

-His SHDL (Short Hop Double Laser) is very effective, stuns the enemy, and can allow for a strike as it is receives no recovery lag when done in the air.

-Is shine is different now, but very effective. It can be used to combo. Grab, down throw, then shine to push back / inflict damage on enemy. Shine is over all very interesting now because it is dynamically quite different. In addition, the shine can be taken advantage of in numerous examples, must of which involved pushing an enemy away from you. Sonic can spin das hyou and you could easily shine counter him, knocking him back.

I know this post won't convince a lot of you that falco is top tier, but I hope it at least convinces you he's high, definately not mid.

I added the red examples. I'd have to say this couldn't be more true. Falco is absolutely Top tier material, hands down.

TOP:
Toon Link
Marth
Pit
Falco


Upper:
Olimar
ROB
Pikachu
G&W
Snake
MK
Diddy
Wolf
Kirby


Middle:
Fox
DeDeDe <-- should absolutely be upper-top tier, I'd almost say top. Great chain grab, range, and strength. Slow smashes but rather quick tilts that can KO. Especially up tilt.
Lucas
Sheik <-- from my experience sheik is still a great character, quick and powerful. Though, she definately received some nurfs, hey uair and fair seem to be a slight bit less effecting than in melee. hmm, maybe it's just me. Still, I think she could potentially make the jump to upper tier.
Zelda
Luigi
Ike
Zamus
Ice Climbers
Peach
Pokemon Trainer
Mario
Donkey Kong
Wario

Low:
Link
Yoshi
Samus
Ness
Sonic <--If a tier is based on the potential of any given character, than I'd have to say sonic is at least mid to high tier. He's difficult to play, but when you get good at him, he's difficult to deal with. He has few finish moves, his fsmash and bAir to name a few. Many players who bash sonic do so because his best killing move, his fsmash has such a short range. However, once that sonic player masters the stutter-step technique, his fsmash now out ranges marth's fsmash, or comes close enough to it-- simply amazing. He has great recovery. There is deffinately potential for this character.
Bowser
Falcon


Bottom:
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff


I think the most crap i will get will be from Yoshi but he is not bottom tier guys.... bair to uair is ****.

I added the comments in yellow. As for the above quote, I really only looked at a few characters that I thought should be moved, I guarantee there are others worth moving, but I payed attention to characters that I specifically know better.

King Dedede (Lower Top Tier): Even though his hitbox is so large Godzilla cowers in fear, this heavyweight has earned top tier. He moves incredibly fast for somebody as strong as he is, and he has a lot of good combos. His chaingrab doesn't work very long and he runs out of range quickly, but it can add an extra amount of damage and end with another throw that can lead into a combo. His f-smash, while rediculously slow, is speculated to be the most powerful move in the game. He also has a projectile that rivals Peach's turnips, as he can whip out Waddle Dees supprisingly quick, and can put pressure at a distance. On top of that, he has an intense recovery, with multiple jumps and an astonishingly high up-b, making this heavyweight a monster to KO. Certantly in the runs for top-tier if you ask me, although low in it due his massive hitbox and being comboed easily.

Good points. Even more reason for Dedede to make top tier. He truly is a great character. It's funny that sources such as IGN said he sucks so terribly. They must suck at the game. hmm.

Hmm. Curious to see what the tier list will be like in a year or two...

 

[PIMPSLAP]

where it should be based on tourny results not infatuations....

 

[SOLAR]

1. Marth
2. Toon Link
3. Wolf
4. Fox

Something like that for first 4.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Top:
-Snake
-Wolf
-Mr Game and Watch

Upper:
-Toon Link
-Pikachu
-King Dedede
-Olimar
-Diddy Kong
-Pit
-Marth
-Wario
-R.O.B.

Mid:
-Metaknight
-Donkey Kong
-ZSS
-Ike
-Kirby
-Fox
-Zelda
-Luigi
-Lucas
-Falco
-Sheik
-Jigglypuff
-Peach
-Pokemon Trainer

Lower:
-Mario
-Yoshi
-Ice Climbers
-Samus
-Ganondorf
-Lucario
-Bowser
-Ness

Bottom:
-Captain Falcon
-Link
-Sonic

 

[talkingbeatles]

Look guys...
I'm just calling it right now.
Captain Falcon will be lower mid tier at least. If you guys haven't seen his potential, you're not looking in the right places.
The right places mainly being his uair.

 

[Illussionary]

Well from my gaming expierience. Wolf's play style is similar to Falco's style in Melee, also with bits and peices of Shiek in there also. He is still pretty fast and is heavier then Fox and Falco, this combined with his strength make for a good combination. Anyway his recoveries may not have the range of Falco's Phantasm, but are non the less very effective. He also has a dair spike, which if combo'd right can be an easy kill almost everytime. Speaking of combos Wolf has amazing combos and juggles in his arsenal too. With all these factors I think it adds up to a Top Tier Character.

 

[WaffleJesse]

I'm not sure why Lucario is in low tier, he's a perfectly fine character he at least deserves middle. Hell his aura ability is what keeps him alive, Even without that you can combo with Lucario very well. Everytime I play as Lucario I can beat most high tiers. You just need to know how to use him he's a very capable character.

 

[Tyrael64]

Agreed. I don't know why people keep putting Lucario in middle and low tier. He's got great range, disjointed hitboxes, ridiculously fast dodges, fairly good recovery, and his Aura Ability makes him only get meaner and nastier the more you beat him up.

 

[StripesOrBars]

So far from what I've seen:

Lucas-(won the first big Fl tourney on Saturday which had 40 people that each paid $20 to play in singles)All of his attacks have massive amount of stun and knock back and his back air is probably gonna be the next Tipman Spike.

Pit- semi awesome recovery, with a good projectile and a good moderate knockback moveset with minimal lag.

Dedede- Chain grab and slow but powerful moves

Ike- Waaaaaaay overpowered

Marth- almost the same exact character from melee

Olimar- This guy is without a doubt the cheapest character in the game as of right now. He can deal damage from anywhere on the stage and being that he's so small, he can go without being hit for long periods of time(got 2nd at the 40 man Florida tourney)

ROB?

Toon Link?

The space animals?

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Olimars major problem is yoshi, his egg roll barrels through pikmin unstopped, His bair cuts any pikmin to shreads, his Dair destroys them easily too, basically against an assumed low tier character (i think he deserves upper middle tier) olimar gets pwned so I can't see why he'd be upper tier when he's that paper to yoshi's scissors.

Try playing against an Olimar that doesn't suck..

 

[StripesOrBars]

Olimar is a beast.

And whoever said that BS about Chu, please STFU.

If you didn't play Melee and travel to OOS tournies in your Melee lifetime(which you never had) then please GTFH.

 

[Wrath`]

my tier list
top tier.
everybody
you guys like that????

yes, becuase it makes the most sense out of all these crappy lists