This is probably the best list so far.
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
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Snake should be second.
Bowser King
Have It Your Way
My opinion.
darkspatan117
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 364
bowser should be higher stop underestimating him
Negative_Two
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2008
- Messages
- 25
Mario has a projectile, Is less punishable, is harder to gimp, can gimp easier, and has his up tilt lock.
Who is he above? Not trying to sound mean, just wanna know your opinion.
What I said to Xeze. I really can't see him higher than ZSS (on Panda/DSF list)
No competant Ike player uses QD when an opponent is around(recovery wise). Ike's jab and Dsmash have plenty of knockback... Also tilt-stick Dair > another aerial is a "combo" Ike has. Then there is Nair > Utilt, jab > Utilt, jab > Dtilt, jab canceling and jab to grab (if you count those 2)
darkspatan117
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
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- 364
jab cancel to grab a lot of char can do that but it count has a combo
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
Posh, Snake and G&W aren't that different from each other, Retro has a better aerial game than Snake which would help him a lot more since of this games aerial focus. Snake has a good anti-air game which helps him contend to that, but his air game still isn't up to snuff.
If G&W and Snakes popularity were dead equal, you'd probably see G&W take this one.
Ya R.O.B's Iffy but in generall to the overall scheme.
R.O.B has a dam good recovery which will extend his life time where as for Snake, Beating him out of cypher isn't in actually hard, most characters will find this to be true, Snake can C4 himself to extend his lifetime, but then he's taking a risk for an uncertain reward that even if it pays off the reward will be better than dying, however how much so if you take damaging C4'ing yourself.
R.O.B and G&W also do better off the ledge than Snake which hurts him.
IMO your all sucking snakes **** because you have grown into that by now and snakes popularity helps him have the tournament results to back that up.
G&W's ground game isn't poor either, so a good air game good ground game vs a good ground game and anti-air character who's air game isn't as good.
This is from where I stand, also Snake doesn't seem to be evolving he just seems to get tournament results because of 3000 or so people rushing to tourneys with snake when around 800 or so G&W players are casually coming out.
I don't main any of the 3, I'm not playing favourites but Snake could likely fall in all of your eyes by the end of the year.
Yoshi's progressing as a character he's not as bad as people initially thought and unless others start to grow more too, more people will start to think so by the end of the year.
Toon link probably should be, but whats the deal with him? No real buzz, no love, he's more like the tier paper weight, you throw him in High tier and guess thats going to be all right, He should be above yoshi but he's not moving where he is expected to be so that is my mistake.
Being in a Higher Tier automatically means your a cut above those around you.
Bowser is catagorized with decent characters and he's not being ignored this is most likely still due to my lack of knowledge on him T_T.
Also
I love me some Ganondorf =P but look at him, his ground game is highly punishable and his aerial game is alright, he can get away with having an acceptable air game but even if he hits like a truck, he's lagger than Falcon just with more priority. Falcon's faster, recovers better and as such can make up for his lack of priority with that, Ganondorf has tech chasing but how much is that going to matter in the long run when people realize in a defensive game like brawl, Being slow sucks, at least Ike has the range to back up his **** and stupid strength too.
This is just from my perspective though.
darkspatan117
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 364
if you don't know bowser can release grab ivy and charizard the same way marth can ness (it was tested against a human) however it very easy to jump break
studly
Smash Ace
mario has more options at more times than ike....to do combos that end in kill moves ...soo
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Woah ASC is not the majority of his approaches. it is most versatile but he has alot more variety.
Except that Sonic relies on gimping and most of the Cp stages are walkoffs.
yes Sonic does have trouble killig but not just because of speed but bceause of the fact he cannot setup into any of them except his bair, and thats situational
However it is far from making him the 4th worst character.
Woah another misconception.
yes constant grab boxes can cause an issue but only an idiot would continously rush into one.
Bite, Kirby's inhale, DDD's inhale yeah they can stop him, but Snoic can cancel most of his approaches and avoid it, or he can just spinshot and punish.
yeah cause Sonic is going to get grabbed during a recovery pfft.
Xeze
Smash Ace
Nevermind. I just wanted to know the reasons and darkspatan117 explained them. But I personally think he is above Ganondorf, but that's just my opinion.
darkspatan117
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
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- 364
i admit the list make him really low but he far from the 4th worst char in my opinion
studly
Smash Ace
i think i might be against that... if you think about all the falcon mainers vs all the ganon mainers.....ganons prbbly gonna win....although im still byest for falcon...cuz im so ussed to him in melee
darkspatan117
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
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- 364
ganon his above falcon for sure his attack are way faster his forward b his better he migth have a slow running speed but his jab,uair,nair,l cancel dair, bair,usmash,ftilt,utilt are all faster than falcon move not to mention he heavier, and stronger than him he above falcon but not to much above lol
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
the first part of your super sentance doesn't make much sense and makes responding to your post harder.
Falcon's ftilt,utilt and dtilt are all faster.
Falcon's F-air is better than Ganondorf's obviously when sweetspotted, and Falcon's back air isn't too inferior to ganondorf's.
Falcon's better recover gives him a better off ledge game as well, but he cannot ganoncide, it's a trade off but I'd say Falcon gets the better deal in the end.
These two aren't much better than one another really, Ganondorf has power but some of his moves have more lag than falcons.
Falcon is faster but lacks the priority and killing power.
Ganondorf can punish mis-spaced attacks and laggy moves with straight out force.
However due to Ganondorf's speed he can't always take advantaged of his opponent because they recover before he can hit, where as falcon can slip into larger windows of opportunity due to his speed.
You could literally put them in the same exact spot on the tier list, and it wouldn't matter since really, Ganondorf has big weakness's and Falcon does too being Laggy is just like having Low priority because both make it hard to hit with. Both of their aerials are quick as well so you look at ground game more.
I could be wrong simply because Falcon could be vastly worse but moving from Ganondorf to Falcon and then back, they really don't have the same gap as Link and Toon Link do Falcon could be listed higher than Ganondorf and several lists have done so.
Falcon's ftilt,utilt and dtilt are all faster.
Falcon's F-air is better than Ganondorf's obviously when sweetspotted, and Falcon's back air isn't too inferior to ganondorf's.
Falcon's better recover gives him a better off ledge game as well, but he cannot ganoncide, it's a trade off but I'd say Falcon gets the better deal in the end.
These two aren't much better than one another really, Ganondorf has power but some of his moves have more lag than falcons.
Falcon is faster but lacks the priority and killing power.
Ganondorf can punish mis-spaced attacks and laggy moves with straight out force.
However due to Ganondorf's speed he can't always take advantaged of his opponent because they recover before he can hit, where as falcon can slip into larger windows of opportunity due to his speed.
You could literally put them in the same exact spot on the tier list, and it wouldn't matter since really, Ganondorf has big weakness's and Falcon does too being Laggy is just like having Low priority because both make it hard to hit with. Both of their aerials are quick as well so you look at ground game more.
I could be wrong simply because Falcon could be vastly worse but moving from Ganondorf to Falcon and then back, they really don't have the same gap as Link and Toon Link do Falcon could be listed higher than Ganondorf and several lists have done so.
Why should he be?
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
He's got turtle bewbsWhy should he be?
darkspatan117
Smash Journeyman
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- Feb 20, 2008
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- 364
at least mid low he has great option out of shield the best grab release setup in the game up air is incredibly strong fair is quite fast and long reach and has a chain grab against wario, ivy charizard but he is freaking huge and has an abysmal approach is recovery is not too hot
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Dark I swear if you do not stop your run-on sentence and bad sentence structure, I am going to kill you.
Gindler
Smash Champion
I just laughed when I read about Ganon's Utilt being faster than C. Falcon's. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the slowest move in the whole game.
Pieisthebest
Smash Apprentice
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
Better you than me, im a Penguin we do things rough.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
When did Chrono=dark?
Otherwise you'll get falcon punched.
Otherwise you'll get falcon punched.
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
lulz Im aware you were talking to Dark (q_o)
but I had to add that I could kill him better for my pride
*runs away for sounding lame*
but I had to add that I could kill him better for my pride
*runs away for sounding lame*
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I thought Penguins had problems running...
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
If only I had Rockets on my skis.....oh wai- I totally have rockets on my skis!
exidid
Smash Journeyman
*pictures it*
XD
Question: If Meta Knight was worse than one character, what character would that be?
I think it would be G&W. He has no flaws other than his light weight. His priority is insane, and he has the best move in the game. He has one good recovery and good edguarding game. His throws are not bad, specially his down throw which can lead to delicious things. He has no trouble killing and approaching is very easy with the turtle.
Delta_BP26
Smash Ace
I've been wanting to say something for a while, but I forgot. So I'll just say Mario>Ike.
I only recently picked up Mario, and I'm a long time Ike main. Even with such little time, I've noticed already. Ike has many benefits that make him very competent, but in serious play he is limited to few moves, and these moves aren't even that fast. (Except B-Air) The fact that he's limited to these moves makes stale move negation a factor too.
EDIT: Ahh, I remembered. It is that Toon Link shouldn't be that low in that one list, even if he doesn't place in tourneys due to low popularity.
I only recently picked up Mario, and I'm a long time Ike main. Even with such little time, I've noticed already. Ike has many benefits that make him very competent, but in serious play he is limited to few moves, and these moves aren't even that fast. (Except B-Air) The fact that he's limited to these moves makes stale move negation a factor too.
EDIT: Ahh, I remembered. It is that Toon Link shouldn't be that low in that one list, even if he doesn't place in tourneys due to low popularity.
darkspatan117
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 364
sorry about it ShadowLink I will watch about it next time I post
Marios My Bro
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 151
I agree with that i find toon link very low in the popularity column. Hes very effective if used correctly
viparagon
Smash Ace
Toon link was very popular earlier, he just fell when people discovered he wasn't that good.
oh, and mario>ike
oh, and mario>ike
Finding Waldo
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 167
I still prefer Lucas myself.
cutter
Smash Champion
It's still hilarious how most people thought Toon Link was a lock for top tier. That is however, if you theorycraft... 
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
I don't really wanna read through all the responses to my tier list that I missed when I left to do stuff, so instead I just posted the tier list onto my blog. And yes, apparently mods now can have blogs. Because we are awesome.
My blog be here: http://smashboards.com/news/blogs/38565
My blog be here: http://smashboards.com/news/blogs/38565
Mmac
Smash Lord
Wow... Actually that list is pretty good. Personally I think Ike is alittle too high, Bowser is alittle low, and Why do you keep on insisting that Yoshi belongs in the ranks of Ganondorf and Falcon! Have you even seen what a Good Yoshi can do? He doesn't belong there at all, and you should be ashamed of yourself!
Also Link and Jigglypuff is alittle high also...
Other than that, good job
But seriously, 6 Months after, why do people believe that Yoshi still belongs there <_<
cutter
Smash Champion
Is this Silverflash-x from Gamefaqs? This is his EXACT list, and I think it is the best tier list so far IMO.
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