Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Tried it. beat'em all a couple of times and then some. Some were a breeze, some had more punch, some come down to the wire. It's all about being tactical and thinking straight. Don't run blindly, that's what I go by at least. Plus, I play for fun. Whether people play against me competitively or not, I still provide a good fight.

Not trying to offend. I'm just saying.

But that's the thing, THAT'S JUST YOU.



Maybe the people you faced sucked, maybe they didn't, but you can't exactly use your own personal experiance unless it was in tournament play to justify if Yoshi has an advantage or disadvantage.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R6DxK9_w5LY
You can take at is BS if you want, posting video's isn't what I do, so knock it down as you feel.

anyways im going to the pit boards for awhile

 

[yoshiunity]

Do you have videos or anything to back it up? Tournament results with you in the top? Can the people you play testify to this at least? Anything can be said, especially over the Internet where integrity is low at the very most.

If what you say is absolutely true, beyond the shadow of any and all doubt that you can beat most characters on the roster, it is nothing more than a very isolated incident with nothing backing it up. If anything, understand our position. Yoshi absolutely blows in everything we've done. And for a handful of people to refute that with nothing but their own experiences... it's shallow.

And you're going by with things you've only seen not experience. Isn't that shallow? I have some videos saved on my wii. If you still have one, and whenever I can get my wi-fi connection going. I'll show you some videos.

We understand your position. But try to understand from ours that as Yoshi Mains, we know what we are talking about. A chart doesn't judge us, recordings doesn't judge us. Yoshi may have blown for everything you've done. But he hasn't blown in everthing I've and many other Yoshi mains done.

 

[Corigames]

The first thirty seconds of that was unbearable. I didn't watch the rest. Maybe it got better, but I had to stop when you two were just rolling for about five seconds straight. Plus, he kept attacking in the wrong direction, grabbing from miles away, and he didn't do anything at the start of the match! That was anywhere from disturbing to shameful. I would request that match be stripped from the interent.

But, hey, what do I know.

@yoshiunity:
But is it not better that I have seen the videos and read the reports and findings? I have also fought a friend head on who tried to main Yoshi in melee, but hated it, then tried it in Brawl. He didn't stick with it long. We found out, together, how much he sucked. I experienced it with him. We went to the Yoshi boards. We read the BS. It amounted to nothing. Then to tell me that you pulled it off with a breeze just feels insulting, even though I know you don't intend it.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Do you have videos or anything to back it up? Tournament results with you in the top? Can the people you play testify to this at least? Anything can be said, especially over the Internet where integrity is low at the very most.

If what you say is absolutely true, beyond the shadow of any and all doubt that you can beat most characters on the roster, it is nothing more than a very isolated incident with nothing backing it up. If anything, understand our position. Yoshi absolutely blows in everything we've done. And for a handful of people to refute that with nothing but their own experiences... it's shallow.

I agree with alot of that, I do. We have zero tournament results to back up our claims and few video's because of the lack of users. O and for video's, the most recent decent ones I can find is the SHiri (Yoshi) vs Goodies (Snake/MK) set. Goodies is by no means a noob, he's been placing well in tourneys. Bear in mind here that Shiri has yet to learn DR, or at the least does not implement them in his matchups, is NOT the best Yoshi can do (though neither does Goodies with Snake or MK so thats moot) and also for some reason Shiri doesn't use the CG against MK (a grab release CG btw). Plus it's an entertaining set

I realise one set of video's is not good backing, but at the very least when watching it you can see potential.

Everything we say here is fairly close to useless without the backing, which we really don't have at the moment, so I'll just let it lie for now, fair enough? When someone can use DR and his other pwnsome ATs right (I just love that word btw, dont blow out of proportion that I use it) and starts placing in tournaments, then I shall be back!

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I can tell BOTH of those guys Roll dodge to much >_>. Way too predictable and against better players will get them 3 stocked. Spot Dodging is the way to go, Roll dodging should be saved to retreats mostly

The Wolf didn't use Bair much at all, which is one of Wolf's best moves. That's silly


That's definately not a way showing Yoshi to be good at all >______________>

 

[yoshiunity]

But that's the thing, THAT'S JUST YOU.



Maybe the people you faced sucked, maybe they didn't, but you can't exactly use your own personal experiance unless it was in tournament play to justify if Yoshi has an advantage or disadvantage.

Why tournament play? If I play against people in a tournament, Isn't just the same out of a tournament? Some will suck, some wont? It's all personal experience.

 

[Browny]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R6DxK9_w5LY
You can take at is BS if you want, posting video's isn't what I do, so knock it down as you feel.

anyways im going to the pit boards for awhile

sorry but that match was horribad. i wouldnt be surprised if there was 1 roll dodge for every single second that elapsed over the course of the entire video.

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi can chaingrab 17 characters FYI. And MK isnt as terrible, because u can cg him, and snake isnt as bad as some people have him. D3 is disadvantaged, but not by much, and he has an advantage over olimar. Bwett says hes been consistantly placing in the top 8 or so in tournaments wiht yoshi, and a few others like pride have been doin pretty good.

You can say yoshi is terrible, but dont make the mistake of talkin about his matchups without knowing crap about them.

Also that wolf was terrible xD

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Can yoshi really CG pikachu, because for some reason I haven't been able to when everyone else on that list is fine.

 

[Corigames]

Why tournament play? If I play against people in a tournament, Isn't just the same out of a tournament? Some will suck, some wont? It's all personal experience.

Because, think of what happens at a tournament. It's not all about the game. Take it all in. the whoe deal. You are in an unfamiliar place. You are playing on TV's you aren't familiar with. Even thought the characters are the same, people do play differently. You have learned the mindgames of people you know, but what about other people? How do you fair against that one guy over there just spamming Pikmin? What about that guy over there just charging in with Ike? Will you do fine against them? what if it is too cold? What if people play different when money is on the line. can people deal with the banter form people behind them? What about choking?

A tournament is a different ball game from friendlies.

 

[ShadowLink84]

you cant be serious... ikes jab is probably the best in the game, its a lot harder to DI out of the third hit than snakes

If yo are close to Ike when he jabs, you can DI out of more easily than Snake's.
Snake's is faster and knocks you back horizontlaly a bit more than Ike's.


Regardless the point is that if Ike misses a move, he can be punished for it.
He has to play defensively and bait the opponent into a jab because his Ftilt, smashes (other than D smash) are slow to come out even tohugh they cover a good amount of area when used. he really has to plan a step ahead which means a faster opponent will be like the plague for hm.

Let alone the fact that a projectile user basically forces him onto the offensive because he has few methods of getting close, quickly and safely.

 

[Deleted member]

Can yoshi really CG pikachu, because for some reason I haven't been able to when everyone else on that list is fine.

Yea but its tough. I dont even think D3 can be done tho, seems like they can jump out really early.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

You didn't need to say all that Corey
A Tourney is like a talent show, you may do well when your in your environment, but when your infront everyone else, you feel different.
_________________
ANYWHO.

Who is the most rounded out character in total?

 

[Kiwikomix]

In the end, though, how effective was the Wavedash? How effective is DR? that's what counts.

I'll admit I shared your skepticism until I knew what it was. I was just like, OK, that's cool but it doesn't seem useful.
To be honest, it's starting to work quite well. There's an instructional video with examples in gameplay given near the end of a video, and I'd like to add that during a Yoshi ditto, I stutter-step fsmashed my opponent and was too far away, then he DR'ed into an fsmash for the KO.

No matter how many paragraphs anyone types up, that won't change. He doesn't even get to flirt with the possibility of jumping up to usable tier.

By talking with other mains around the boards (not just the Yoshi boards) I've discovered Yoshi is a lot more usable against most characters than people think. He has a 4:6 matchup against Snake and a 4:6 against MK, just to name a few. (Look at me brag about negative matchups, lol) If you need reasoning, which I'm sure you do because that's just common sense, go to the matchup thread in those forums. Trust me, it's not main bias... there are a lot of people saying that the MK matchup is 5:5 and they do have legitimate reasons for it.
And, need I add that I don't main Yoshi?

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrS8T-svGVo

TAKE YOUR FREAKIN YOSHI TOURNY MATCH AND LEAVE ME BE =P

Recent, and vs rob. Theres yoshi's usability for ya.

Also, its a trap, kiwi does main yoshi.

 

[yoshiunity]

The first thirty seconds of that was unbearable. I didn't watch the rest. Maybe it got better, but I had to stop when you two were just rolling for about five seconds straight. Plus, he kept attacking in the wrong direction, grabbing from miles away, and he didn't do anything at the start of the match! That was anywhere from disturbing to shameful. I would request that match be stripped from the interent.

But, hey, what do I know.

@yoshiunity:
But is it not better that I have seen the videos and read the reports and findings? I have also fought a friend head on who tried to main Yoshi in melee, but hated it, then tried it in Brawl. He didn't stick with it long. We found out, together, how much he sucked. I experienced it with him. We went to the Yoshi boards. We read the BS. It amounted to nothing. Then to tell me that you pulled it off with a breeze just feels insulting, even though I know you don't intend it.

It's a breeze for me, because I kept at it with maining yoshi. I'm not an almighty Yoshi player, some of those other Yoshi main would probably wipe me out in a second. You probably would with whoever you use, you probably wouldn't. Yoshi is a character that needs to be learned, that is true. But you have to keep at it with him. Don't stop because you got some beatings, REALLY BAD beatings.

You want to know how many times I've gotten badly beaten when I first start maining Yoshi? Thirty times in a row. Just from the computer, may I add. It became clear to me, that running into fight like falco wasn't proper with Yoshi, and his special needed timing and distance if they were to be effective. Melee, I play yoshi by staying on the ground, not going into the air unless I really needed it. same with his special moves.

Now In brawl, my strategie complete change. Aerial assist, range and evasion is better for yoshi in the fight. Started for that and kept going. I had almost another Melee beginning, got my *** kicked here and there, but I got use to how he plays and trained with him. Now I know more manuvers to help make fights easier.

So beileve me when I tell you that those post on the Yoshi boards aren't BS; there experience. We stay Yoshi is a great fighter; however, we never said he's easy to learn.

Because, think of what happens at a tournament. It's not all about the game. Take it all in. the whoe deal. You are in an unfamiliar place. You are playing on TV's you aren't familiar with. Even thought the characters are the same, people do play differently. You have learned the mindgames of people you know, but what about other people? How do you fair against that one guy over there just spamming Pikmin? What about that guy over there just charging in with Ike? Will you do fine against them? what if it is too cold? What if people play different when money is on the line. can people deal with the banter form people behind them? What about choking?

A tournament is a different ball game from friendlies.

And believe me. I'm friends with very compeitive people. My best friends smashed his classic controller just because he couldn't beat Ike (in one match) with Mr.g/w(Ike REALLY pisses him off.). I have another friend who has over 8 controllers and mains Fox, Marth, Diddy. My nephew plays Mario, and is able to dodge and counteract on the spot. Some of my other friend are just skillful. The rest of the people I play are all mouth.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow watch the 3rd match of the set i posted, too good =P

 

[Kiwikomix]

Also, its a trap, kiwi does main yoshi.

LIES
Just because it's the only character board I write on and I've started a matchup thread and I tend to write gigantic paragraphs wherever he's concerned does NOT mean I main Yoshi.

 

[Chaco]

@yoshiunity:
But is it not better that I have seen the videos and read the reports and findings? I have also fought a friend head on who tried to main Yoshi in melee, but hated it, then tried it in Brawl. He didn't stick with it long. We found out, together, how much he sucked. I experienced it with him. We went to the Yoshi boards. We read the BS. It amounted to nothing. Then to tell me that you pulled it off with a breeze just feels insulting, even though I know you don't intend it.

Sorry Yosh, I'm going to chime in some. Maining Yoshi was a breeze for me also, maybe your friend just sucks. It takes a determined person to play Yoshi, not someone who just wants to pick up a spammer and camp to victory. You have to know every tech, which I do. And have been maining Yoshi a little under three weeks. But guess what I can DR better than everyone except BigMan. I don't mean to insult you by saying maining Yoshi is a breeze, but to me it was. I found some rough spots I had to overcome, but I did. And I didn't even main Yoshi in melee, I was a Samus main. Because it was easy. But Yoshi may be harder, but it is where your strength lies.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Okay everyone needs to stop using the acronym BS, I keep thinking your referring to me. And you all ignored my well thought out and peaceful post where i virtually produced a white flag XD

Agreed it is a trap, Kiwi's got Yoshi in his soul

 

[ChronoPenguin]

LIES
Just because it's the only character board I write on and I've started a matchup thread and I tend to write gigantic paragraphs wherever he's concerned does NOT mean I main Yoshi.

I actually main pit lol =P

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Sorry Yosh, I'm going to chime in some. Maining Yoshi was a breeze for me also, maybe your friend just sucks. It takes a determined person to play Yoshi, not someone who just wants to pick up a spammer and camp to victory. You have to know every tech, which I do. And have been maining Yoshi a little under three weeks. But guess what I can DR better than everyone except BigMan. I don't mean to insult you by saying maining Yoshi is a breeze, but to me it was. I found some rough spots I had to overcome, but I did. And I didn't even main Yoshi in melee, I was a Samus main. Because it was easy. But Yoshi may be harder, but it is where your strength lies.

you can DR better than Fumi and karamity?
0_o sick.


oh **** I double posted.

 

[Chaco]

you can DR better than Fumi and karamity?
0_o sick.


oh **** I double posted.

The only person I have seen that can DR better than me is BigMan, but he was off when I played him. I got a sick DR approach kill on him. But I know the speed to do it in, and can use the DR for spacing. Karamity originally showed the DR, so erm, might have me beat.

 

[Deleted member]

Just because u havent seen people, doesnt mean they cant. besides, DR isnt even a necessity.

 

[Onomanic]

I'm curious as to what will happen with Pikmin, since Olimar doesn't play like anything in Melee.

Also, is the backroom going to rate Pokemon Trainer into a single tier or are they going to place all 3 of his pokemon in the individual tiers where they belong?

~about the pokemon
Yeah some Pokemon trainer mains say that Pokemon Trainer shouldn't be split into all three pokemon but be one character in all if you know what I mean. I read it in a guide. Good guide, too.

 

[Chaco]

Just because u havent seen people, doesnt mean they cant. besides, DR isnt even a necessity.

I've seen your vids, and Pride's, and others. DR may not be a nescessity, but it is something that can be used for kills, and spacing.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Guys there's a DR discussion thread in the Yoshi forum, take the debate there. All Yoshi tier discussion should be done for atleast 2 days, as I think we've come to a conclusion that Yoshi cannot be argued for until he gets some tournament results.

 

[Corigames]

And believe me. I'm friends with very compeitive people. My best friends smashed his classic controller just because he couldn't beat Ike (in one match) with Mr.g/w(Ike REALLY pisses him off.).

Roid rage proves skill :/
???

I have another friend who has over 8 controllers and mains Fox, Marth, Diddy.

Money proves skill :/
???

My nephew plays Mario, and is able to dodge and counteract on the spot. Some of my other friend are just skillful. The rest of the people I play are all mouth.

Yet, how do you know they are skillful when you have no benchmark to place that on?

maybe your friend just sucks. It takes a determined person to play Yoshi, not someone who just wants to pick up a spammer and camp to victory.

And I didn't even main Yoshi in melee, I was a Samus main. Because it was easy.

You are treading on thin ice. That friend ended up main jigglypuff in Melee, a job not left to the weary of heart. He does not suck, remember, Yoshi does. He doesn't spam and he doesn't camp. He's very smart too, probably the best chess player on campus at a nerd school! Also, I would like to remind you, I said we both tried to make his Yoshi good. By saying he didn't have the determination, ability, or spirit to play as Yoshi is also a check written out to me.

The second remark also hits home. I played Samus in Melee. It was the only character I played seriously. She was perfect for everything I liked in Melee. Fighting people with her was not easy. Everything about Samus is mindgames. constant pressure, knowing what you can CC and what you can't, diversifying your recovery, proper use of every single projectile and the places to best use them. Every single character match up had a different approach you had to learn. Far from easy.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Yoshiunity, your making us other Yoshi users look bad. Please don't think the arguments he is using are the one's other more coherent Yoshi users would.

Also corey, chess skill =/= smash skill. Im good at chess, but I suck at Smash XD

 

[Kiwikomix]

Lawl, I tried using Jiggz in Melee. I gave it up once I discovered I couldn't rest combo or land a utilt for ****.

 

[Corigames]

I'm sorry, but this is killing me:

Yoshiunity,you're making us other Yoshi users look bad. Please don't think the arguments he is using are the one's (Why is there an apostrophe here?) othercomma more coherentcomma Yoshi users would.

Also coreygames (You don't know me personally), chess skill =/= smash skill. Iapostrophem good at chess, but I suck at Smashperiod XD

Sorry, had to get that out of me.

/nazi

 

[Deleted member]

Wtf samus in melee is not easy. And stop making it sound like yoshi is like increadibly difficult to play. He isnt. Hard to win with=/= hard to play.

So where are ICs ending up these days. Id say they should be high. Great approach (Sh blizzard), cgs obviously, good kill moves, nana isnt as ******** in brawl (tho still pretty dumb), i think the only thing holding them back is getting nana killed, which against a good IC is easier said than done.

 

[yoshiunity]

Roid rage proves skill :/
???

Money proves skill :/
???

Yet, how do you know they are skillful when you have no benchmark to place that on?

No. That wasn't just about their. I'm talking about how they are very compeitive(as far as mindset goes). That they play at their best no matter what the situation is. Smashing a controller because of one match, buying 8 controllers went mostly playing a console for just one game, 11 years old an destroying player easily by focusing on evasion and counterattack.

Now for their skills. On a benchmark. They're above average, not OMFG but acceptable when playing in a very competitive setting(We all participated in those small tournaments I was talking about eariler). All of them know their strengths and weaknesses. I helped them get better myself by provided advance tactics I find on the internet for them to try out. They don't use them all, only ones that agrees with their playing style. ****, I wish I had some recording equippment. the majority of our matches last over 3 minutes.

 

[Corigames]

Ok, I was just thinking that those extrinsic things attributed to their skill level... which is dumb.
k

 

[yoshiunity]

Yoshiunity, your making us other Yoshi users look bad. Please don't think the arguments he is using are the one's other more coherent Yoshi users would.

Also corey, chess skill =/= smash skill. Im good at chess, but I suck at Smash XD

Sorry BS, I thought was making a good point. As far as Yoshi taking sometime to get use too, also trying to recieve anwsers to things that didn't seem to make sense. Heck, I even provided a post about Yoshi's basic skill moveset. http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4855074&postcount=1208

If I'm not helping, oh well I tried to aid. But my opinion and reasons still stands. I hope I didn't cause any BS. Hey, If I keep posting just say, "The yoshi mains don't know who that nutcase is. Don't listen to his BS." I guess I'm rebellious.... BS. XP

But in all seriousness. I'm just stating from experience on how Yoshi is used. May not be how everyone typically uses him or whatever. It's from what I learned.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I've been away from school for over a month, my grammar and spelling have gone to **** quite quickly

There's no full stops just to annoy you by the way

@ Yoshiunity, it's fine, I was being overly harsh, just make sure you don't bring stuff like personal experience into tier debates, they eat you alive for it over here.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Sorry BS, I thought was making a good point. As far as Yoshi taking sometime to get use too, also trying to recieve anwsers to things that didn't seem to make sense. If I'm not helping, oh well I tried to aid. But my opinion and reason still stands. I hope I didn't cause any BS. Hey, If I keep posting just say, "The yoshi mains don't know who that nutcase is. Don't listen to his BS." I guess I'm rebellious.... BS. XP

You aren't rebellious.
You're just an idiot.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Can someone please give a clear definition of a "tier list" or "tier placement" so we can shut up all of the noobs who keep saying their character is top tier?

 

[yoshiunity]

You aren't rebellious.
You're just an idiot.

And you can't read. I explained my reason, like them or not. Deal with it.

@BS: Thanks man. I'm done posting that much info on here. But if anyone want trouble let them post whatever. I've dealt with worse and I have a life to live.