Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[ShadowLink84]

Pfft Corey is such a manwhore.


*is busy crying at such a tender thing he has said*

I SHALL AID YOU IN THIS PURSUIT OF LOVE!

you're a ****** Lobelia?
Interesting.
Do you get your plumbing changed?

Oh lord we really have deviated from the topic..



On Topic: Pikachu. High tier material or high mid tier? Considering his Dsmash can be Di'ed out of and can he can be knocked out of it by many moves, and his aerial game is not as strong as it used to be. Of course his ground game is strong especially with WAC and the improvement to thunder and thunder jolt.

And of course tourney results.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Pfft Corey is such a manwhore.


*is busy crying at such a tender thing he has said*

I SHALL AID YOU IN THIS PURSUIT OF LOVE!

you're a ****** Lobelia?
Interesting.
Do you get your plumbing changed?

Oh lord we really have deviated from the topic..



On Topic: Pikachu. High tier material or high mid tier? Considering his Dsmash can be Di'ed out of and can he can be knocked out of it by many moves, and his aerial game is not as strong as it used to be. Of course his ground game is strong especially with WAC and the improvement to thunder and thunder jolt.

And of course tourney results.

Pikachu looks incredible on paper, but due to his poor tournament placings, how good can Pikachu really be, you know? He's suffering from Toon Link Syndrome.
And yes, I'm a ******. Pre-op, which sucks. I wish I could afford to get the plumbing changed right now, but I cannot, because I am poor. I'm starting hormone therapy in September. It's gonna be amazing.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah tha was what concerned me.
maybe its a case of, it can be done but the actual practicality of it makes it low?

Mainly since his priority aerially is actually lesser than Sonic's (yes thats right, his priority is lesser than Sonic's aerially) but he also seemed to be unable to really get his aerial game moving. And when he did, it couldn't maintain it for very long.

its possible that TL is suffering from something similarly where they look really good on paper, but the actual application is poor or really difficult. Maybe though.

Hormone therapy? Cool.
Hmm I feeel like pestering you with more questions since you've invoked my curiosity but that would be very nosy of me and rude.

I hope everything works out well for you.

Unless it turns out you're just messing with me for ****s and giggles in which case I shake my fist at you and promise my revenge through MP:H. ^_^

Okay good night I should be going to sleep two hours ago.

 

[Corigames]

You mean the recovery that can be stopped with a fast and/or flexible projectile, Spikes, or even can just run into the bullet to screw him over? and the fact that he actually has to aim it or else he'll miss, or make him even more vurnable to attacks?

Besides, you act like Yoshi doesn't have a recovery at all....


Please tell me that you actually know that Yoshi actually DOES have a recovery....

Please tell me that you know he sucks.

At least Ness and Lucas can do ANYTHING after they've been hit, if you are Yoshi, you just die. You get no second jump back, that's it. You are done. Goodbye, better luck next game at the character select screen when you figure out how to use it right to pick a better character.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Corey seriously, shut up. Yoshi's spammed B Up takes him a considerable horizontal distance and how the heck is he going to be gimped if his double jump has some of the best super armour in the game?!

 

[Corigames]

After it's over, does he get it back? No, once he double jumps, that's it. He doesn't get it back. It's just Like Pit''s Up B, except he has a few more options than Yoshi in my book. and less options means you are going to be very predictable... and he is. Does he ave super armor until he lands? No. You can hit him at the end of the move and then any point after that. If the super armor lasted forever, then Yoshi may be good... heck, even broken. But guess what isn't the case. Does he have super armor during the up B? No, he can get easily hit out of it just like any other move.

You shut up.
<_< 08

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Yoshi can't be bottom of the list
he overall does better than Ganondorf, Captain Falcon and Jigglypuff outside of tournament results, in which case he has none to compare too.

After it's over, does he get it back? No, once he double jumps, that's it. He doesn't get it back. It's just Like Pit''s Up B, except he has a few more options than Yoshi in my book. and less options means you are going to be very predictable... and he is. Does he ave super armor until he lands? No. You can hit him at the end of the move and then any point after that. If the super armor lasted forever, then Yoshi may be good... heck, even broken. But guess what isn't the case. Does he have super armor during the up B? No, he can get easily hit out of it just like any other move.

lulz even if his entire recovery had complete SA on the jump he wouldn't be broken.

Going by recovery to say a character fails is BS
Olimar would be worse off than yoshi.
Wow he can be hit out of a Up special?
How many characters can't?
Snake Can, Olimar, ZSS, Ivysaur, (t)link,.... the list goes on can.
The point of the special is basically to replace the air dodge loss from melee for yoshi (while letting him grab the ledge and do damage) it also has ok horizontal recovery.
Yoshi's recovery isn't even the worse in the game and you want to talk about how **** it is >.>

How bought you talk about yoshi's aerials,smash's tilts and grabs, his approach game and off ledge game to say how bad you feel he is.

 

[Corigames]

Terrible... >_>

 

[Blistering Speed]

I could say there's a way for him to have two double jumps, but that would be nitpicky.
Right in simple terms, if a Yoshi double jumps towards towards your Pit from off the edge, it doesn't matter how predictable he is if you hitting him causes no knockback and that's completely ignoring (like you have) that Yoshi can do what ever he wants during those super armour frames, aerial, airdodge, w/e. The only attack I am aware of which reliably goes through the SA frames is Ganondorfs D Air, EVERYTHING else has no knockback. Argue all day about predictability, but when a Yoshi B Airs back onto the stage, gaining height with SA frames and a decent ranged attack, what are you going to do to stop him........unless you secondary Ganondorf and have perfect timing.

In which case @_@ pheer

 

[Corigames]

Or, because he is amazingly predictable, you guess where he is going to land. Also, you know that he isn't just going to let you hit him, so you jump towards him, see what he does, because he has very limited options, and then punish him. Trust me, I had to go through this in Melee already when he had "super armor" in that game. It wasn't hard to get by in that game either.

 

[Jibbles]

The only attack I am aware of which reliably goes through the SA frames is Ganondorfs D Air, EVERYTHING else has no knockback

Doesn't a footstool run over Yoshi's second jump?

 

[Blistering Speed]

Doesn't a footstool run over Yoshi's second jump?

O, sorry about that, you are correct sir. But Yoshi can deal with that with an aerial, U Air primarily.

Or, because he is amazingly predictable, you guess where he is going to land. Also, you know that he isn't just going to let you hit him, so you jump towards him, see what he does, because he has very limited options, and then punish him. Trust me, I had to go through this in Melee already when he had "super armor" in that game. It wasn't hard to get by in that game either.

Well, Yoshi can change the momentum of his Double jump at any time with any of his B Moves (each having a different effect btw). He can also B Up early to grab the ledge or if he's high up, B Down onto the ledge. Yoshi also has good DI for changing where he lands and he never has the problem of being in the 'vulnerable' state after doing a recovery. Adding to all this he lands with very little lag, Im missing how easy he is to predict and punish.

 

[Browny]

^^^ what he said

Its close to impossible to punsh yoshi as he lands with anything except shuttle loop

 

[Deleted member]

While yoshis recovery isnt exactly good, its far from bad, and most characters cant gimp a smart yoshi. The main reason is his ability to airdodge, so u really cant go out to edgeguard him,he just dodges. If you are waiting to attack where he lands with say uhh robs fsmash or pits, he can just egg, avoid the fsmash, and nair u. However, if you do get hit by say they baited your airdodge, ur usually dead =/ Id say better than lucas because lucas is just so darn easy to gimp, ness i dunno, cuz ness's kills you at like 20% if u get hit, but yoshis doesnt usually get gimped at all so probably yoshis is better. He alot better than the tethers, and imo mario and a few others. =/

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Or, because he is amazingly predictable, you guess where he is going to land. Also, you know that he isn't just going to let you hit him, so you jump towards him, see what he does, because he has very limited options, and then punish him. Trust me, I had to go through this in Melee already when he had "super armor" in that game. It wasn't hard to get by in that game either.

Snakes recovery is infinitely more predictable than yoshi.

The Cypher goes in a bloody fixed direction, sure he can C4 but at the end of the day he pretty much still cyphers >.>

If anything Yoshi's recovery isn't predictable simply due to the crap he can do with it.

Aerial during your recover makes for harder gimping.
Down B cancels into ledge/normal usage.
Up B is self explanatory.
egg roll works, but it's pretty **** to use when your high up.
egg lay is useful for looking pimp.

the easiest time someone will have gimping yoshi is if he's below the stage, if he's sent upwards, BS about yoshi being predictable.

 

[Blistering Speed]

XD everytime someone writes BS I think they're mentioning me, stupid name acronym.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Another Yoshi doesnt suck brawl >.>

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Another Yoshi doesnt suck brawl >.>

See the arguement should not be for me to say why he doesn't suck.
But for those to say why he doesn't pwn.
Have you seen his pimp shoes? Thats A grade materials right there, thats why the nair is good.

 

[yoshiunity]

Well, I'll make my tier list. I'll just follow the basic tier list formula.

----*Satire tier list*

High tier

Characters that I use a lot. Ones that I win a lot of matches with. Mains to be precise..... Oh yeah. Spammy characters and Super Buffed ones. (Even if I can't really use them. Everyone else saids they're good, so I'll just put them here. If I like them.) ... And the tournment rule stuff. That is in effect as well.


Mid-high tier

Character that I don't really use, but can still use them very well. You know, when you don't really feel competitive and only want to goof around. Those guys. Also some more spammy guys, and buff characters. Even if I can't use them.

Mid Tier

Eh, characters that are Ok. Not great, but okay. Probably will use them. If I feel like it. Don't hate them don't love them.

Low tier

These are characters that I'll play and win matches rarely... VERY rarely. I don't really understand how to use them, in which makes them bad. Even if people can use them, I still think they're bad.... Oh yeah. And that tournment rule... thing. That play still part as well.

Bottom Tier

THESE CHARACTERS SUCK! I HATE THEM, WHICH MAKE THEM SUCK. THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH THE 5 MINUTES OF PLAYTIME I PLAYED THEM 4! I BEAT MY FRIENDS HO USE THEM LOT(EVEN IF DEY AERN'T THAT EXPERIENCE WITH THE CHARACTER AND I'M BEEN PLAYING DIS 4EVERER!) pLUS, i NAILED THE CPU WHEN IT USE EM ALL DA TIMEZ!! YEAH, IT KILLS ITSELF ALOT, BUT A WIN IS WIN! IF ANYONE CAN WIN WITH THESE CHARACTERS IS MIRACLE!!1 bECAUSE THEY SUXORZ. WHY ARE THEY EVEN IN THIS GAME?/ THEY CAN'T DO THINGS LIKE OTHER GUYS, THEY CANNIT RUN INTO FIGHT! i'LL NEVER USE DEM AGAIN AND dON'T CARE WHO CAN USE THEM. SO WHAT IF THEY PLAYED DIFFERENTLY, THEY DON'T PLAY LIKE i WANT THEM TO PLAY! THIS IS WHY i LIKE TO COME ON HERE AND BASH THESE HORRIBLY PEOPLE. I DON'T CARE IF THEY POST GOOD REASON BOUT DEM. I H8 THE AND DEY SUCK. sOMEONE WHO CAN USE THEM BEETER THAN ME IS STUPID. THEY WASTE TIME ON STUPID CHARACTERS. BOOTOMLINE, THESE CHARACTERS SUCK. i'LL IGNORE YOU, POST ONE WORD COMMENT, OR TRIED TO OWN3D JOO IF YOU POST GOOD REASON FOE DESE CHARACTERS... oK, i'm done. heh heh. I'm awesome... ZSS is hawt! *humps wii* I WAN 2 BANG HER A NITE LONG!!!! OWN3d! OWNed! OOOOOOOOOWN3d!!!

----*END satire tier list*

Yeah. do you like my list. I'll be glad to change it with opinions.... I'M JUST KIDDING. XP But come on. If I were to make a tier list like most people on here, I'd be chase off here with pitchforks and torches! Look at my main. I get crap just for that! Even if I know what I'm talking about when using my mains.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Your tier list is somewhat funny and thus gets the Seal of approval

_______________

Now to continue my chants.


Any list with yoshi at the very bottom is 6000 different types of fail, I could go on like others and post good battles yoshi's been in like karamity but I wont.


see truth that we must all first see is.
1. Yoshi is a pimp
2. Yoshi is the cool kind of Pimp, not the lame kind.
3. yoshi's back air is good
4. Yoshi's u air is good
5. Yoshi has awesome shoes
6. yoshi has best non multiple jump in the game
7. Yoshi has a sub-par to decent, depending on your outlook, projectile.
8. Yoshi can count by 2's and tie his shoes.
9. Yoshi's recovery is only truly predictable underneath the stage, as is pretty much Everyone.
10. Yoshi likes green eggs and ham
11. Yoshi has Cg's on near half the roster
12 yoshi can stop the approach of tall/large characters on the ground well.
13. yoshi has pretty much 5 Ko's, Fsmash, fair, u air, Usmash, Down B, Dsmash.
14. Yoshi can crawl, and crawling is good.
15.Yoshi doesn't place in tournament's because he doesn't go to tourney's a lot, which will eventually brawl has not been out for a month.
16. yoshi's ground speed is good
17, yoshi's tilts come out quickly
18. yoshi's AAA is good.
19. Decent Weight.
20, Does alright vs Snake, Metaknight and Wario
21. DDD hurts him, regardless of CG
22. If Pink don't Shrink, Then Green has a healthy Spleen, which is even better.


A lot of those points are stupid and moot (albiet still worthy of being on a list)

Summary, stfu about yoshi sucking and back it up with some % and ****, if your making a tier list you don't just go this char sucks you say he's here, because , this, that, heres the %, heres the comparison's, heres chucky, this is what he would need to be better, this is what he needs to be worse than ______.

Until then bite my ***, Yoshi's Low/Middle tier.

average player doesn't have to prove jack squat about a tier list, people who make the list need to attempt to prove things to the average player, prove meh yoshi is bad and not just
"His recovery uh...........it can be gimped, even though it has SA because at the end it doesn't have SA, so that makes it bad because jigglypuff doesn't even have any SA but uh she's pink and pink don't shrink so .....ya"

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Quote:
Originally Posted by coreygames
That draconic reverse thing is not a WD. Plus, how is he going to effectively use it in a fight? Spacing for the tail swipe? Anything he does sucks, so getting extra movement is wasted. They couldn't have given a worse character that AT.

You know, saying some characters sucks on every page for about a week straight doesn't make him suck >_>

Also Yoshi's Jump goes an entire Block over Ness's DJ, and 2 Blocks over Lucas's

Alright corey, stop all this ignorant posting. You say DR is not a WD? Give reasons. You don't give reasons, your post doesn't mean anything. You say he sucks. I see no reasoning. In conclusion, that whole post is worthless.

And btw how are you to edguard Yoshi? Ok, he gets knocked off the stage. Enemy is approaching to edgeguard. Yoshi can use his Egg Throw before DJ, keeping the Enemy at bay. If they're gonna hit you with a projectile, either hit them first or use your DJ instead, the SA frames will block it. Or even using your Bair to cancel out some projectiles works. Ok, so you're almost there, you use more Egg Throws, keeping them at bay. So let's say they don't use projectiles and instead try to come at you with aerials. Use your Egg Throw to hit them. During your DJ you can Spike them with Fair or ledgespike/semipike with Nair or hit them with a Bair or spike with a Dair OR hit them with a Uair to prevent their spikes/footstools, etc, and any combination for those things you do, they don't stop your momentum, you just keep going up. HOW are you to stop Yoshi's DJ, unless you time it right when he doesn't have SA frames? OK, still Yoshi's recovery has flaws. But look at Snake. He's TOP TIER with a decent recovery. But according to you a bad recovery = suck. Uh, to prevent Snake from recovery, all you have to do is either grab his Cypher, or jump down to where he is and use an aerial to hit the cypher out of Snake's hands, or use a projectile to hit it out. Still, he's top tier. So why do you think Yoshi should be bottom for his recovery? And I agree with Mmac, Yoshi's recovery is way better than Lucas's or Ness.

DR is everything like a WD. You slide, you can change directions/pivote (idk if you could pivot or not in melee), and you can attack while sliding.

Ok i'm done now.

btw lol at the Seal of Approval :D

 

[yoshiunity]

Your tier list is somewhat funny and thus gets the Seal of approval

Awesome. I got a seal of approval! In your face Fumi! ... (Okay, now that's was playing with fire.XD)

I agree with your post man. However that post wasn't just for Yoshi. People who make biased tier list or just dis characters without knowning how to use them should get a reality check and tried those characters out more than a quick moment, or just play a person with great experience in that character. Ex.I can't stand Jigglypuff, but I've been beaten by skill puff players before. Don't have a problem with that, because I can't use jigglypuff. I win and lose against almost every character.(Yes, I've beaten great MKs, TLs, Marths, Mr.g/w, snake or whoever the **** is top tier or god tier or whatever with Yoshi. And I've been beaten by them too. la dee da) Just shake it off, learn from your mistake, and play again. Simple as that. And remember to have fun.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

And also I'll be making my own Tier List soon, using info from Matchups, opinion/facts, and Tourny Placings, each one weighing 33%. For now I say Yoshi should be Lower Middle/Upper Low, but he still has lots of potential to move up to High Mid as a Max

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

****, the Yoshi Brigade just passed by here didn't they?

 

[gantrain05]

While yoshis recovery isnt exactly good, its far from bad, and most characters cant gimp a smart yoshi. The main reason is his ability to airdodge, so u really cant go out to edgeguard him,he just dodges. If you are waiting to attack where he lands with say uhh robs fsmash or pits, he can just egg, avoid the fsmash, and nair u. However, if you do get hit by say they baited your airdodge, ur usually dead =/ Id say better than lucas because lucas is just so darn easy to gimp, ness i dunno, cuz ness's kills you at like 20% if u get hit, but yoshis doesnt usually get gimped at all so probably yoshis is better. He alot better than the tethers, and imo mario and a few others. =/

how exactly is it easier to gimp lucas, when he has his pkt which goes thru opponents, and his pkt2 also keeps going when it connects, the only way to gimp is to attack him before he actually gets back to the stage, in which case you'd have to match arials with him, and a smart lucas player knows how to avoid being gimped, and if he's close enuf he can just tether grab the edge, ness is much easier to gimp.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

True enough about Lucas.
Ness is easier to gimp However!
Ness has a black t-shirt, which is cool >.>....doesn't have anything to do with tiers, but we should bring this up anyways.

Lucas can still be properly edge guarded by abusing invincibility frames of the ledge.

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi brigade!!! ATTACK!!! *Gets ftilted by snake* Ouch

Who gives a crap where people think yoshi should be placed, people refuse to change their minds and there are no tourny results to back up our claims, so its not their fault for saying hes bottom tier. I for one say he should be garbage tier along with pit =P

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

burntsocks, I'll be attending a tourny on Oct 4 and may be more, I'll play Yoshi and finally get him ranked (although IDK what happened to that 1 ranking, it was in Ankoku's list but it dissappaered some reason). And I'm sure I'll get 1st place, if not then 2nd

 

[ChronoPenguin]

odd question 0_o.

don't most tourneys want u to be over 18, went to 1 and they denied me 0_o >.>
Got to watch though, ther DDD was ******** dont know how he won.

Yoshi brigade!!! ATTACK!!! *Gets 2321412.5 women* woot >.>

fix'd.

 

[ShadowLink84]

one thing that really grinds my gears is the following.

yoshi has SA frames in his second jump.
Snake has SA frames in his recovery.
No
Stop looking at smashwiki, use your freaking common sense and test it yourself.

They are HEAVY ARMOR!

Which means if you hit them with a move with strong enough knockback it will BREAK the armor and knock them away.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

one thing that really grinds my gears is the following.

yoshi has SA frames in his second jump.
Snake has SA frames in his recovery.
No
Stop looking at smashwiki, use your freaking common sense and test it yourself.

They are HEAVY ARMOR!

Which means if you hit them with a move with strong enough knockback it will BREAK the armor and knock them away.

Everyone knows Snake doesn't have SA =P
Heavy Armor is what you call it? Eh I just say SA so I don't memorize more terms than needed

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

No, it's called Yoshi and Snake, in their recoveries, have REALLY high DEFENSE POINTS, 4000 and 3000 respectively. SA frames = infinite Defense points.

and btw I did not really notice they had 'heavy armor' as u call it

 

[fujbubccc]

This is getting out of hand.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

This is getting out of hand.

YOUR GETTING OUT OF HAND!
*throws a desk around*
_________________

High Tier probably is not even Iron Clad too, Melee's Changed periodically from list to list, generally having the same people in it, but in different orders or raising someone from High to Top.

 

[ShadowLink84]

It was called juggernaut frames or heavy armor frames in melee.


Thats why its rather irksome to hear super armor since super armor frames mean there is no flinching.


And defense points? Where did you get the defense point value from?

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Actually during the melee days it was called "invincibility frames".

 

[ShadowLink84]

How early? Considering he wasn't invincible.

I always heard juggernaut frames or heavy armor. More so the former than the latter.


Which reminds me ai keep forgetting to ask you.

What happened to your older account?

 

[Deleted member]

burntsocks, I'll be attending a tourny on Oct 4 and may be more, I'll play Yoshi and finally get him ranked (although IDK what happened to that 1 ranking, it was in Ankoku's list but it dissappaered some reason). And I'm sure I'll get 1st place, if not then 2nd

If its your first tourny and the people dont suck, u probably wont. People play yoshi in tournaments, its just hard to win with him against good people, especially when they are better players playing a better character =/

 

[fujbubccc]

YOUR GETTING OUT OF HAND!
*throws a desk around*

That certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

If its your first tourny and the people dont suck, u probably wont. People play yoshi in tournaments, its just hard to win with him against good people, especially when they are better players playing a better character =/

Just pray you get MK's and Wario's

Infinite the wario's, battle the MK's >.>