Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Judge Judy]

Ugh, it's almost as bad with Mario too. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

You can't take gamefaqs seriously. There are people on that site that still think Pit and Ike broken, and that Marth's Low-high tier.

 

[Recognize]

Will Fox ever be higher than Wolf?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Probably not.

 

[Recognize]

Well F'uck that.

EDIT: Yeah just looked at the matchup chart D: Saddens meh how many disadvantageous matchups he has against pretty much every upper to top character.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Hopefully the Smash Back Room will have a better opinion on Marth than this thread and Amazing Ampharos does.

 

[???????]

Don't take the match-up chart too literally, it's simply a loose guide and some of the information is a bit out of date.

 

[Recognize]

Oh I know. I've seen Anthers fox **** Noj. It was quality.

 

[Onxy]

Captain Falcon beats Squirtle according to that list.

 

[Browny]

rofl @ AiB tier list

for such a tourney-centred website, you would think actual results would have any influence on it... everyone below top 6 looks completely random

 

[itsthebigfoot]

what AiB has for a tier list

Top
Snake
Wario
MK

High
Gdubs
D3
Falco
DK
ROB
Marth
TL
Wolf
IC
Fox

Mid
Olimar
Pikachu
Ness
Luigi
Diddy
Peach
Lucas
ZSS
Kirby
Mario
Zelda
Pit

Low
Bowser
Lucario
Sheik
Ganon
Ike
Jiggs
PT
Yoshi
Link

Bottom
Sonic
Samus
CF

rofl @ AiB tier list

for such a tourney-centred website, you would think actual results would have any influence on it... everyone below top 6 looks completely random

dk is placed at 7th, on ankokus character rankings he is 8th with a relatively high number of tournament wins, so we chocked his low number of top 8 and top 4 finishes to lack of popularity.

marth and rob our undoubtedly good, captain falcon and samus are universally considered bad, mid tier is full of characters that have done well in tournaments, but not consistently enough to be high, given, the list was made mainly by california residents, so it might just reflect californias ideas on the list, but this was accepted as close to dead on by edrees and several other respected smashers when i talked to them about it

 

[Judge Judy]

Pit, Mario, and Zelda are too low.

 

[TehBo49]

Wario above MK? Wow.

 

[Kasai]

Lucario also is placing very well in tourneys...with 7th or 8th most wins total....deserves to be higher than low.

 

[DanGR]

sorry, wrong thread.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

what AiB has for a tier list

Top
Snake
Wario
MK

High
Gdubs
D3
Falco
DK
ROB
Marth
TL
Wolf
IC
Fox

Mid
Olimar
Pikachu
Ness
Luigi
Diddy
Peach
Lucas
ZSS
Kirby
Mario
Zelda
Pit

Low
Bowser
Lucario
Sheik
Ganon
Ike
Jiggs
PT
Yoshi
Link

Bottom
Sonic
Samus
CF

Wario above Metaknight? Seriously? Wario is good, but he's not even close to being on the level Snake and MK are at now, in both Matchups and tournament outings. DK's good,but certainly not better than ROB, who outclasses him in both tournament standings and Matchups. Fox seems too high for my tastes, espiacially when he's over characters like Pikachu and Olimar. Ness higher than Lucas? Really? Ness is hurt much more by those deathgrabs, not to mention his tournament standing so far has been relatively crappy compard to Lucas who recent went on a streak of good to great placings. Zelda and Pit that low is an atrocity, how in the heck did you guys even come to this conclusion? STH has probably already addressed Zelda, and Pit is excellent in Both Matchups and has tournament results to back it up, placing better that you guys placed above her like Lucas, Peach, ZSS, Ness, Mario, and Fox. HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION LUCARIO WAS LOW? That just plain rediculous. Not only is he one of the more balanced and fudamentally sound characters in the game and has a very lethal gimmick in his Aura, He has great tournament placings, and has great matchups. That is just sickening how someone would place him that low. While I hate him with a burning passion, Ike should be above Ganon, he's still somehow managing to place higher than basicially most who are in the Low Tier with him. Peach also should be in Low, probably in the spot Lucario is in. I don't think Sonic is THAT bad, though I agree he shouldn't be that much higher. Jiggs should probably drop below Samus, she really is that bad.


So this was made primarily by Cali smashers eh? I'm not surprised then that certain characters are where they are, Different regions have different character percepotion

 

[Browny]

marth and rob our undoubtedly good, captain falcon and samus are universally considered bad, mid tier is full of characters that have done well in tournaments, but not consistently enough to be high, given, the list was made mainly by california residents, so it might just reflect californias ideas on the list, but this was accepted as close to dead on by edrees and several other respected smashers when i talked to them about it

having lucario at low is just idiotic though. 6 wins, and is only recently beginning to get popularity, hes only going to go higher. and sonic didnt get 3 wins out of pure randomness, they were big torneys he won, not some random weeklies. and as much as i hate to say it, ike really isnt THAT bad.

i cant see what diddy, ness, luigi, peach, ZSS and mario have done to be deserving of mid-tier. in fact the only thing on that list that seems to have any consistency with real results outside the top 8-10 is fox. why people chuck him low-mid or lower is beyond me.

 

[hizzlum]

I agree with djbrowny, azen seems to prove lucario's potencial, but I will reserve judgement on lucario's placement until a big tourney like EVO or MLG happens and lucario places high
I have updated my three tiers list too add TL and the IC's(very debateable though) into the upper tier

The three best tiers in brawl

Top(Wins most tourneys and has great match-ups)
Snake
MK

High(The group that is slightly below the "Snake and MK standard")
G&W
DDD
ROB
Marth
Falco

Upper(Tournament playable characters who show they are slightly better than the majority of the characters in brawl)
Wario
Wolf
Pikachu
DK
TL
Pit
IC's
Others could be added to the upper tier (i.e. lucario,fox, Zelda)but it is debateable if they should be pushed back to mid beacuse of lack in tournament wins and match-ups,which are very slightly above par

(I used knowledgeable people's tier lists(i.e. ch0zen one), emblem lord's suggestions,ankoku's touranement rankings, and the matchup charts on smash boards to form the list, please reply if you like or not and suggest revision of placements)

 

[MattC13]

I think Lucario should be at least med, because aren't tiers measured by Player vs. Player non WiFi? If so, then I'm undefeated with Lucario.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Matt C13, Please go and do some research as pretty much everything you have posted so far has been ignorant. Dont take it as an insult, but look through this topic and the character boards for abit as most of your views are warped.

Also at MattC13's dad 'MOVE THE fI/L3 C4b1n37!?11'

 

[Evla]

Captain Falcon fall from grace. It really is sad. And

 

[Frown]

Snake has some nice tilts, ranged smashes and three projectiles. If that isn't top tier, I don't know what is.

 

[Frown]

Sorry, internetz messed up.

 

[Recognize]

Snake has some nice tilts, ranged smashes and three projectiles. If that isn't top tier, I don't know what is.

It IS top tier. Hes pretty much been undisputed #1 spot for a few months.

 

[SaxDude93]

Snake has some nice tilts, ranged smashes and five projectiles. If that isn't top tier, I don't know what is.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. BTW, I fixed your post

 

[Browny]

make that six, his knee stun-lasers count as one :O

and how about his box as an edgeguard... 7 omgwtf

 

[JrdnS]

i was reading the character match up chart and noticed dk is a counter against snake and meta k.
so would he do good in tournaments because theres a lot of snakes and mks in tournaments or make him a higher tier?

 

[SaxDude93]

Eh, I think that the box is more of a disjoint than a projectile.

 

[boss8]

give me 2 months mario will be top tier....if not high...

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

You'd have a long way to go Boss, and even then, you'd have to hope that the other characters slow the **** down in terms of tournament victories >_>.

 

[Nestec]

i was reading the character match up chart and noticed dk is a counter against snake and meta k.
so would he do good in tournaments because theres a lot of snakes and mks in tournaments or make him a higher tier?

Yep, his advantage against the higher tiered characters is one of the reasons he pretty high right now. He actually has been doing good in tournaments, and I think people are placing him in the Upper-Mids/Lower-Highs right now.

O_o
My, how Game & Watch, DK, and Pikachu have shot up so high...

 

[Kiwikomix]

@ Kasai: Lucario certainly isn't low yet, he's upper mid. Look about 5-10 pages back, there's a debate and reasons why.

 

[Frown]

Eh, I think that the box is more of a disjoint than a projectile.

To be honest, I double posted in the WRONG THREAD. So I had to edit my post and come up with something something tier-related quickly.

 

[Theftz22]

the box can be used as a projectile!?! Can someone link me to a vid of this?

 

[SaxDude93]

So, now that we know DK doesn't horribly fail against Snake/MK, I want to know why. It's probably because of range and power.

And stuff. I would appreciate answers.

 

[Blistering Speed]

DK's have huge range and thanks to his B Air he also controls the Air. His tilts/snakes which as we all know is possibly Snakes best feature. He also has 3 (!) Spikes and snakes recovery is spike bait and even if he goes above the stage Snake is then a sitting duck in the air. Snake and DK's match tbh is 5/5 maybe 6/4 for DK. Dk also has no problem finishing Snake despite his weight because of the rediculousness power of his smashes and Giant Punch, all which are applicable in a match.

MK to DK is 4/6 or possibly even 3/7. Whilst Meta Juggles Dk to hell, DK can kill him at very low percentages, meaning recovery is not an issue. Plus Meta cannot get inside DK with correct use of tilts and B Airs and unlike Snake, he has no projectile to camp against DK with.

There ya go

 

[SaxDude93]

Thanks

10char

 

[DanGR]

This is the tier discussion. Y'all are talking about matchups. Go to IvanEva's chart and discuss there if you wish to continue. thanks~

 

[Nestec]

Lolwtf?

Aren't match-ups a crucial aspect to determining tier placements?

 

[Tien2500]

Tier List

Note: There is no particular order within Tiers.

Top Tier

Snake
MK

I think we can all agree on this.

Upper High Tier

G&W
Dedede
Marth
Falco
Rob

These characters are a step above the rest of the cast but just aren't as great as the two tops. Dedede has a lot of great matches due to power and chaingrabbing, G&W has amazing airs and powerful smashes, Marth has great aerials and can KO early with sweetspots, Falco can chaingrab just about everyone in the game up to 50% and has one of the best projectiles, Rob has great projectile, recovery, Dsmash, and nair.

Lower High Tier

Wario
Pikachu
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Toon Link

I don't think these characters are quite as good as the ones above them. They have a lot of advantageous matchups but they have some glaring weaknesses. Zelda and Pikachu have great defensive options but lousy approaches. Ice Climbers are reliant on graingrabs so if you can stay away from that or keep them seperate you can take them. Wario has a great air game but mediocre ground options. Wario may deserve to be in the tier above based on tournament rankings but lets see if that holds up. Toon Link has a good projectile game and solid aerials and ground game to back it up.

Upper Mid

Olimar
Pit
Wolf
Fox
DK
Lucario
Squirtle*

These characters are better than average but not incredible. Olimar is great at dealing damage but is gimpable. Pit can camp well but has slight difficulty KOing. Wolf's lasers and Fsmash are great but once Fsmash is diminished KOing can be hard and his aerials don't make up for that. Fox is great with good speed a good projectile and decent KO moves. DK has great matchups against the top tiers but I don't think he's dominant enough over the rest of the cast to warrant the tier above although he may deserve high tier based on tournament placements. Lucario has great range and good power (at high percentages) and a decent projectile. He's been doing well in recent tournaments so we'll have to see if that holds up. Squirtle is one of the best aerial characters in the game and has some amazingly fast attacks.

Mid

Lucas
Diddy
Lucas
ZSS
Luigi
Kirby

These characters are decent enough that they can hang in most fights but aren't great. They really don't have anything amazing to put them to the next level. Diddy is close but his problems KOing and bananas being used against him can hurt.

Lower Mid

Mario
Bowser
Ike
Ness
Charizard*
Shiek
Bowser
Pokemon Trainer (composite)
Sonic

These characters are not completely outmatched but they're disadvantaged to most of the cast.

Low

Peach
Samus
Link
Yoshi
Ivysaur*
Gannon

These guys have a disadvantage against most of the cast. And have some pretty glaring weaknesses.

Bottom

Jiggly
C. Falcon

These guys unfortunately suck with rather low potential unless someone discovers something amazing about them. Jiggs is hurt by the new airdodging system and the debuff of rest. C.Falcon's moves are hard to place and the reward for hitting them isn't amazing.

So thats my list. You guys can tear it up right.