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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
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ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Yes people do use Ike well.He is not high tier however, due to his slow speed, poor recovery and the fact that his ability to approach, and pressure is poor in comparison to characters above him.
Dexter Morgan
Smash Apprentice
If you don't know what a tier-list is, it is basically a ranking of the characters metagame within Super Smash Bros. Brawl and how good they are in comparison to one another. So, for starters, here is my thoughts on a Brawl tier list.
Top Tier:
- Marth
- Metaknight
- Toon Link
- Pit
- Mr. Game and Watch
- R.O.B.
High Tier:
- King Dedede
- Diddy Kong
- Falco
- Olimar
- Ike
- Wolf
Middle Tier:
- Lucas
- Pikachu
- Snake
- Mario
- Zelda
- Fox
- Lucario
- Peach
- Link
- Sheik
- Sonic
- Zero Suit Samus
Lower Tier:
- Luigi
- Wario
- Ice Climbers
- Ness
- Kirby
- Samus
- Captain Falcon
Bottom Tier:
- Bowser
- Yoshi
- Donkey Kong
- Ganondorf
- Jigglypuff
Top Tier:
- Marth
- Metaknight
- Toon Link
- Pit
- Mr. Game and Watch
- R.O.B.
High Tier:
- King Dedede
- Diddy Kong
- Falco
- Olimar
- Ike
- Wolf
Middle Tier:
- Lucas
- Pikachu
- Snake
- Mario
- Zelda
- Fox
- Lucario
- Peach
- Link
- Sheik
- Sonic
- Zero Suit Samus
Lower Tier:
- Luigi
- Wario
- Ice Climbers
- Ness
- Kirby
- Samus
- Captain Falcon
Bottom Tier:
- Bowser
- Yoshi
- Donkey Kong
- Ganondorf
- Jigglypuff
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
comments are in bold.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Marth, Pit, Toon Link, and R.O.B. are all a little bit too high.
Falco should be around top. Olimar and Wolf need to be lowered a little. Ike needs to be lowered significantly, a little bit more than one tier at least.
Snake is higher, around the top. Pikachu and Zelda are arguably high. Peach, Link, and Sonic need to go down at least a whole tier.
Everyone on the low tier minus Samus and CF need to be higher to some extent. CF needs to be lowered.
Bowser, DK, and Jigglypuff need to be higher.
I'm too lazy to explain why right now. <<
TehBo49
Smash Ace
Pit in top? Marth above MK? Ike above Wolf, Pikachu, Snake, Zelda, etc.? Wario, ICs, & Kirby in low? Bowser & DK in bottom? Captain Falcon above someone?
So much failure.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
Sigh....I'm gonna be straight up with this. That is so wroing in so many places. You have Snake in Mid, when it's almost guarenteed he will be top. Marth is not the best, espiacially not over Metaknight. Pit is good, but not THAT good. IKE IS NOT HIGH TIER. How many times must everyone say this? He's ridiculously easy to predict and read , crappy matchups, and is basicially screwed against anyine who can attack faster than him. He should be way down. I wouldn;t say Lucas is Top of Mid, maybe close to that. Pika and Zelda need a definite move up, they're way too powerful. Fox should be near the top of Mid. Link should be either low or bottom, has trouble racking up damage, Kill moves are slow and predictable, very easy to gimp. ZSS should be higher than that, Sonic needs a move down to low for obviois reasons. Wario needs a HUGE move up, probably to the top of Mid or bottom of high. Luigh should be in mid. Kirby is not low tier at all, one of the more well rounded canadates for Top of the mid or bottom of high. CF should be at the VERY BOTTOM, he doesn't deserve to be over anyone else. Bowser and Dk are FAR from Bottom tier, definetly Low Mid at the least. Jiggs should move up over Ganon. Yoshi is not that bad, certainly better than Samus and Link.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
nigerian I find it funny you sitll mention sonic being low tier.
Where is my response to my argument?
~_^
Where is my response to my argument?
~_^
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
Well, instead of my horrible multiquoting skills completely retardifying my arguement, I thought it would be easier for you to list which characters he would be above.
That way, I could work it from there.
That way, I could work it from there.
SaxDude93
Smash Apprentice
*Attacks this list with the Fail-Hammer*
hugglebunny
Smash Journeyman
WOW, that tier list is wrong in so many different ways!
Snake is the best char in the game, so he is top.
Jiggs is high tier, DK is high tier, Yoshi is high tier, IC is high tier,and pikachu is high tier
Captain Falcon is on the bottome of the bottom, Link is bottom, Sonic is bottom, samus is bottom and Lucario is Low
Ike is low
that was a totally wrong list
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
TehBo49
Smash Ace
SaxDude93
Smash Apprentice
Edit: Never Mind
Dexter Morgan
Smash Apprentice
It just happens to be that since the higher tier characters are easier to pick up and some of the low-tier characters literally have to chance against someone of their level who is high tier, no one uses the low-tier characters in tournament play.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
So you're basicially admitting you don't know how Tiers work.
.....How did you become a debater again?
SaxDude93
Smash Apprentice
Lies and bull crap
TehBo49
Smash Ace
ICs are often considered high tier & they are very difficult to play.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
And Mario is relatively easy to learn as well, but do you see anyone saying he's top? Nope, didn't think sp.
Don't post your own Tier List if you don't even know what it is or what it's for.
Don't post your own Tier List if you don't even know what it is or what it's for.
Pieisthebest
Smash Apprentice
My tier list again ;>_>
Hopefully people will like it better than dexter's
Top Tier:
Meta Knight
Snake
Upper Tier:
Falco
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
R.O.B.
Marth
Wario
Fox
Pit
Zelda
High Tier:
Dedede
Pikmin & Olimar
Zero Suit Samus
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Ice climbers
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Luigi
Ike
Middle Tier:
Lucario
Peach
Shiek
Mario
Bowser
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Bottom Tier:
Samus
Sonic
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Hopefully people will like it better than dexter's
Top Tier:
Meta Knight
Snake
Upper Tier:
Falco
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
R.O.B.
Marth
Wario
Fox
Pit
Zelda
High Tier:
Dedede
Pikmin & Olimar
Zero Suit Samus
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Ice climbers
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Luigi
Ike
Middle Tier:
Lucario
Peach
Shiek
Mario
Bowser
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Bottom Tier:
Samus
Sonic
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
It's okay, but why the heck is there Upper and High?
I would replace Upper with High, then High with Mid. It doesn't make sense that it goes from Middle to Bottom
I would replace Upper with High, then High with Mid. It doesn't make sense that it goes from Middle to Bottom
D13
Smash Ace
@Pieisthebest: I think you're missing Toon Link in that list.
TehBo49
Smash Ace
@ Pieisthebest: I agree with NSS, you should change the tier names. You scared me when I saw Ike under high tier. The list itself is okay.
Browny
Smash Hater
pfft, snake is easy to learn too. his single best approach is spammable and easy to do, can KO with all his tilts, jabs, smashes and aerials. edgeguarding is as easy as mashing cstick. how much more of an easy mode character do you want.
i honeslty have no idea where people get the notion snake is hard to play. all it takes is 2 minutes to learn the snake boost and theres all the AT's youll ever need to win.
Pieisthebest
Smash Apprentice
Fix'd also, lol @ ok, this list is MAGNIFICENT!
Top Tier:
Meta Knight
Snake
High Tier:
Falco
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
R.O.B.
Toon Link
Marth
Wario
Fox
Pit
Zelda
Middle Tier:
Dedede
Pikmin & Olimar
Zero Suit Samus
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Ice climbers
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Luigi
Ike
Low Tier:
Lucario
Peach
Shiek
Mario
Bowser
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Bottom Tier:
Samus
Sonic
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Top Tier:
Meta Knight
Snake
High Tier:
Falco
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
R.O.B.
Toon Link
Marth
Wario
Fox
Pit
Zelda
Middle Tier:
Dedede
Pikmin & Olimar
Zero Suit Samus
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Ice climbers
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Luigi
Ike
Low Tier:
Lucario
Peach
Shiek
Mario
Bowser
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Bottom Tier:
Samus
Sonic
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
Oh really? Learning to adapt to your opponent, placing your mines accoringly, mindgaming your opponents into traps is considered easy?. Using Fsmash as an edgeguard is not the wisest thing in the world compared to Mortars/Well placed C4s/ Nikitas. You also seem to forget Nade shielding is a relatively important technique to good Snakes, so I'm not sure if you completely know what your talking about. Bad Snakes have a tendency to get juggled badly by other characters, which is one of Snakes few bad points. Good Snakes know when to take to the air and how to keep out of situations like that. Add to the fact Snake is completely unconventional compared to other Characters in his attacks, you can tell he's not someone to be played by ******* unlike Ike in FFAs or Pit.
Dexter Morgan
Smash Apprentice
Pit:
Lots of easy to spam moves that rack up damage and enough kill moves to not be a problem, sure. That's why he is between mid & upper tiers. However his recovery is a serious issue, very few times do i see pit get knocked offstage and make it back without taking damage. His range isn't that great, but supplemented by arrows it works out. Priority is another negative side for pit, its okay, but a lot of things will beat him out (GaW, DK, Wario, Marth, MK, Pikachu, Snake).
Wolf:
Spacies are always going to be good. The problem with wolf is recovery, and its a major problem. His lasers are decent but not hard to perfect shield consistently, and they aren't good enough to hassle offstage. Because of recovery you also wont be able to chase offstage, meaning you better rack up the damage to 100+ damage or get some really well done Fair/Bair finishes. He is also susceptible to a lot of chain grabbing and this should be considered.
Ike:
currently lots of discussion about Ike. He has ranged from lower to top tiers and the more he gets papered out the more towards mid he gets. Upper isn't necessarily bad, but for right now it is too high to me. Recovery isn't that great and a lot of characters have enough range and speed to get inside on you.
ROB:
Good priority, superior recovery, easily combo'ed aerials, projectiles, minor reflective capabilities, good tilts, good smashes, acceptable range, and tournament results to back it all up. No reason to be anything less than upper.
DK:
When i bought the game i would have agreed, maybe said give him mid tier but not anymore. The ability he has to counter a large portion of the top tier characters makes him an upper player for sure. The range he has with his tilts is amazing, and they combo well. His super armor moves are another huge advantage and he has two spikes. Plenty of reasons to push up DK
ICs:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wHfGqpHBZI4 <-that's incredible and is almost mid by itself
Aside from that, good priority, decent range, and de-synching tricks are awesome ways to combo. A projectile to spam that cant be turned against you, limited lag, high priority smashes that kill 80-100% I think you get the point.
Lots of easy to spam moves that rack up damage and enough kill moves to not be a problem, sure. That's why he is between mid & upper tiers. However his recovery is a serious issue, very few times do i see pit get knocked offstage and make it back without taking damage. His range isn't that great, but supplemented by arrows it works out. Priority is another negative side for pit, its okay, but a lot of things will beat him out (GaW, DK, Wario, Marth, MK, Pikachu, Snake).
Wolf:
Spacies are always going to be good. The problem with wolf is recovery, and its a major problem. His lasers are decent but not hard to perfect shield consistently, and they aren't good enough to hassle offstage. Because of recovery you also wont be able to chase offstage, meaning you better rack up the damage to 100+ damage or get some really well done Fair/Bair finishes. He is also susceptible to a lot of chain grabbing and this should be considered.
Ike:
currently lots of discussion about Ike. He has ranged from lower to top tiers and the more he gets papered out the more towards mid he gets. Upper isn't necessarily bad, but for right now it is too high to me. Recovery isn't that great and a lot of characters have enough range and speed to get inside on you.
ROB:
Good priority, superior recovery, easily combo'ed aerials, projectiles, minor reflective capabilities, good tilts, good smashes, acceptable range, and tournament results to back it all up. No reason to be anything less than upper.
DK:
When i bought the game i would have agreed, maybe said give him mid tier but not anymore. The ability he has to counter a large portion of the top tier characters makes him an upper player for sure. The range he has with his tilts is amazing, and they combo well. His super armor moves are another huge advantage and he has two spikes. Plenty of reasons to push up DK
ICs:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wHfGqpHBZI4 <-that's incredible and is almost mid by itself
Aside from that, good priority, decent range, and de-synching tricks are awesome ways to combo. A projectile to spam that cant be turned against you, limited lag, high priority smashes that kill 80-100% I think you get the point.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
You do realize not only are those grabs harder than they look and easy to mess up, the ICs have a relatively, if not difficult time grabbing opponents because of horrible grab range, and this is emphasized more when they're are facing disjointed attacks. Their projectile is kinda bad, and the fact they can be separated and lose effectiveness is reason enough to keep them out of Top.
good, I didn't have to talk for this one ^_^
lets talk about pikachu...because he really seems to jump around in these tier lists.
The way I see it, pikachu is a completely versitile character. He has mobility, decent speed, some quick attacks, some attacks that rack up damage, and some KO moves. Beause of the single-minded usefulness of the moves, pika seems predictable, but the QAC, u-air, d-air help solve that.
The d-smash is a great pressure move, even if it isn't as great as people first thought.
As far aas I can see, pika's weaknesses are mainly range, and having a slighly un-adaptive move set. I'd say that the former is more damaging, especially against the higher ranked chars (MK, marth, GW), but rather even or slightly advantaged against most other chars.
lets talk about pikachu...because he really seems to jump around in these tier lists.
The way I see it, pikachu is a completely versitile character. He has mobility, decent speed, some quick attacks, some attacks that rack up damage, and some KO moves. Beause of the single-minded usefulness of the moves, pika seems predictable, but the QAC, u-air, d-air help solve that.
The d-smash is a great pressure move, even if it isn't as great as people first thought.
As far aas I can see, pika's weaknesses are mainly range, and having a slighly un-adaptive move set. I'd say that the former is more damaging, especially against the higher ranked chars (MK, marth, GW), but rather even or slightly advantaged against most other chars.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
Well he always has thunder jolt, but in some cases it's completely laughable, so I wouldn't say that solves his range problem.
TehBo49
Smash Ace
Thunder jolt does makes up for range. It forces opponents to approach him, which is good for him. But yeah, some characters completely negate thunder jolt (G&W, Lucas, etc.) so it doesn't make up for it that much. QAC makes up for range the most.
Theftz22
Smash Lord
All of my thoughts are bolded.
^^unless you have something new to add, please refrain from bashing something that's already been said. Instead save space with a witty comment showing you can read stuffz
and your wrong.
DK is either bottom of high/top of mid, not low, for example ^_^
and your wrong.
DK is either bottom of high/top of mid, not low, for example ^_^
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
I definately wouldn't say DDD is Top, he can't infinite everyone, and some of the lag on his moves can be punished big time. His matchups aren't even that great either compare to other likely High/Top canadates. Luigi is more mid than High. DK is probably better than Bowser. Ike is even lower than mid. Plus, you didn't see a problem with Pit at top or Yoshi near the very bottom?
Oh good, a Pikachu discussion.
The way I see it, he belongs in upper high tier simply because of his versatile recovery, his amount of juggling, damage-racking, and KO moves, his thunder/thunder jolt spams, and his great matchups overall against most high and top characters (including, as I learned today, Snake).
The way I see it, he belongs in upper high tier simply because of his versatile recovery, his amount of juggling, damage-racking, and KO moves, his thunder/thunder jolt spams, and his great matchups overall against most high and top characters (including, as I learned today, Snake).
Bair camping, techchasing the grab, his Waddle-Des blocking ranged attacks and any mve that stops upon impact, amazing recovery - How is he not top? Any smart D3 player is good enough not to use one of his laggy moves when they can be punished for it.
Besides snake being heavy (juggle-prone) what advantages does Pika have?
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