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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
Hylian himself even admits that he can't quite do them consistently, as it seems to be different for each character. CGs are not going to make IC's broken nor Top Tier. He's stated himself in his arguements that the ICs are far from broken even with legal infinites. The ICs have a horrible time Grabbing as their range is piss poor, in Melee they had wavedashing to counteract this problem, in Brawl they do not. Sometimes even shield-grabbing isn't effective for them if the opponent has a disjoint or spaces very well. Also notice that they haven't been as dominating as TGM thinks they would be if the Infinites weren't banned, they're been average, maybe even lower than that.
They're High Tier, yes, but they're are not Top Tier by any means until further notice
They're High Tier, yes, but they're are not Top Tier by any means until further notice
Yeah, you are correct about that.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
who ever said the invincibilty frames give you a free switch for pt, you're wrong, after you die you can't switch until the invincibility frames are gone, so you will always be a sitting duck while switching
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
I was just about to bring that up as well.....
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
like I ever said that he didn't? I just said that there's no way you can force him to use all three pokemon... you can easily get away with using only 2. it's possible to only use 1, but it's trickier.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
If you tried using one, fatigue would likely happen eventually, lower the usefulness of the pokemon. In that kind of heated match, you can't afford a sudden disadvantage like that.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
chances are you won't be living more than 2 minutes.... but maybe you will... you certainly won't live lobnger than 4 though, so there's no need to use all 3. the main problem if you want to use 1 poke is pulling out 2 switches.
Ouch.
I suppose you think Sonic just sucks, too.
@Hedgedawg: Do you know of anybody who uses just one Pokemon that can win matches? I would actually like to see that if it happens.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
He's need to be a beastly killer to pull **** like that off.
Like, 3 stocking in 2 minutes, jeez......
Like, 3 stocking in 2 minutes, jeez......
All right, take III. I took a few tips from NSS and Hedgedawg's lists, and counted pretty much every suggestion made earlier.
Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.
High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Olimar – Olimar’s damage-racking capabilities and great range on his KO moves should in theory make him top tier, but his recovery is indisputably the worst in the game, a weakness that gets even worse since he’s so light.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily. Good matchups solidify his place in high tier.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery. Kirby manages to break even… and then some.
Mid Tier
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine. Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Low Tier
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases. However, he's still not good enough to get higher than top of low tier due to his learning curve and unusual shield.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here, he shouldn’t have so much wind-up lag. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat linear and predictable. His steep learning curve means only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.
Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.
More suggestions? Most of what I've changed is from mid high to upper low.
Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.
High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Olimar – Olimar’s damage-racking capabilities and great range on his KO moves should in theory make him top tier, but his recovery is indisputably the worst in the game, a weakness that gets even worse since he’s so light.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily. Good matchups solidify his place in high tier.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery. Kirby manages to break even… and then some.
Mid Tier
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine. Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Low Tier
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases. However, he's still not good enough to get higher than top of low tier due to his learning curve and unusual shield.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here, he shouldn’t have so much wind-up lag. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat linear and predictable. His steep learning curve means only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.
Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.
More suggestions? Most of what I've changed is from mid high to upper low.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Wolf and DDD seem high to me as does yoshi... I mean, maybe he's not the worst, but he's not better than a lot of the charcters you put him over... PT seems too low.
those are the biggest problems I see in your list
those are the biggest problems I see in your list
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
That list is excellent, good job. Not much I can argue aside from think Pit and Diddy should be higher, but that's just a matter of preference, it's interchange amongst other opinions.
deletedmember
Smash Cadet
Geeze, where the hell did ROB come from? I remember no one liked him at all, but my friend used him and I kept thinking he was pretty good. Now all the sudden he's accepted as top tier?!?!!?
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Fixing spelling errors for my own sanity.... any glaring problems?
Ratherion
Smash Journeyman
He's got some pretty crazy stuff going on. All the different aspects and mindgames work very well for high tier. I mean that's what Snake is all about.
Lol you people take prioritized attacks too seriously. Sonic can do pretty good than most other characters with low priority. You really have to stop taking priority seriously. It's like oooooooh THIS GUYS PRIORITY SUCKS!!!111one111 Priority is not THAT BIG OF A DEAL
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
Firstly. Yes, priority is a big deal when going into character specifics. If CF had a lick of priority he would be much higher than percieved now.
Secondly, that's not the only reason why Sonic isn't good at all in the first place.
Secondly, that's not the only reason why Sonic isn't good at all in the first place.
Ratherion
Smash Journeyman
In high-speed, competitive matches, characters are going to collide blows a LOT. Take Marth and MK for instance, they bot have excellent air games, but (from personal observation) Marth has better range and priority, his priority and range games are top-notch, which, when combined with his speed, is what is putting him so high in the teir rankings.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
Yes, plus some of the best matchups overall and great tourney output so far.
Anyways, I'm gonna call it today for discussing Tiers.
BTW: Ratherion, it's spelled Tiers. I before E except after C :D
Anyways, I'm gonna call it today for discussing Tiers.
BTW: Ratherion, it's spelled Tiers. I before E except after C :D
Ratherion
Smash Journeyman
*facepalm* Too much French HW. It's corrupting my spelling.
Could someone please explain to me what it is exactly that makes G&W placed high? I mean, I get the sense that he is a great character, I just would like to know the specific reasons.
Could someone please explain to me what it is exactly that makes G&W placed high? I mean, I get the sense that he is a great character, I just would like to know the specific reasons.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
Lucario and Lucas are way to high and Wario should be lower and Pit higher. Ivysaur is WAY to low. D3 should be a bit higher. Wolf should definetly be higher!
Pretty good list though!
Pretty good list though!
Fletch
Smash Master
Any reason Pit is in two places? Your tier list is fine until it hits mid-tier in my opinion, then you have some questionable choices.
FalcoLeetness
Smash Cadet
My Speculatory Tier List for Brawl:
Top Tier:
Falco
Fox
High Tier:
Marth
Game and Watch
Metaknight
Toon Link
Snake
Ike
Mid-High Tier:
Lucario
R.O.B.
Zelda
Sheik
Diddy Kong
ZSS
Olimar
Ice Climbers
Peach
Jigglypuff
Middle Tier:
Luigi
Mario
Wolf
Wario
Samus
Pit
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Low Tier:
Kirby
Captain Falcon
Sonic
King DeDeDe
Link
Yoshi
Lucas
Ness
Bottom Tier:
Bowser
DK
Ganondorf
This is what I think...please give some feedback..I know its different from other tier lists.
Top Tier:
Falco
Fox
High Tier:
Marth
Game and Watch
Metaknight
Toon Link
Snake
Ike
Mid-High Tier:
Lucario
R.O.B.
Zelda
Sheik
Diddy Kong
ZSS
Olimar
Ice Climbers
Peach
Jigglypuff
Middle Tier:
Luigi
Mario
Wolf
Wario
Samus
Pit
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Low Tier:
Kirby
Captain Falcon
Sonic
King DeDeDe
Link
Yoshi
Lucas
Ness
Bottom Tier:
Bowser
DK
Ganondorf
This is what I think...please give some feedback..I know its different from other tier lists.
u throw all heavy chars to low-bottom 
Also i think, wolf is WAY better than mid tier >.<
also lucas has potential to be at least mid tier imo.
What i mostly dont understand is, what makes Toon link that good and why that much better than link (sorry that i cant discover by myself, i dont own brawl atm.)
Also i think, wolf is WAY better than mid tier >.<
also lucas has potential to be at least mid tier imo.
What i mostly dont understand is, what makes Toon link that good and why that much better than link (sorry that i cant discover by myself, i dont own brawl atm.)
superglucose
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2008
- Messages
- 127
I'd say move pit up. Deceptive range, good priority, projectile, mirror shield is the new cape (albiet harder to use)... in fact, just today I ended a lucas player by mirror shielding each of his three stocks. Granted he doesn't main lucas, but it was still fun. His AAA is really good (the knockback!) and his D and F tilts are superb. His UTilt is a two-hitter that is surprisingly nice, it's fairly easy to sweetspot the bair, Fair, Nair and Uair all have their uses.
And when you can't use the Uair? Projectile straight up! It's early in the morning here, but I can only think of two other characters who can projectile straight up... Link and Toon Link.
Pit has speed and range. Sure he lacks a little bit of power, but that's OK because dying doesn't happen that quickly in Brawl anyways and Pit can deal the damage.
Out.
And when you can't use the Uair? Projectile straight up! It's early in the morning here, but I can only think of two other characters who can projectile straight up... Link and Toon Link.
Pit has speed and range. Sure he lacks a little bit of power, but that's OK because dying doesn't happen that quickly in Brawl anyways and Pit can deal the damage.
Out.
Kasai
Smash Journeyman
Falco and fox just aren't top tier and if they are, they aren't by themselves up there. Basically, I would move metaknight, snake and gw up to top, move fox down to high/mid.
Also, skipping some stuff, Kirby is way to low. He's not low tier and probably belongs either in high of mid or low of high.
SaxDude93
Smash Apprentice
IKE. IS. NOT. HIGH. TIER. This is not Melee. Fox was major nerfed. He sucks compared to Melee. And Captain Falcon not bottom. RAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE!!!
And for the priority thing, you can't kill what you can't touch.
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
Compare this to my tier list:
lol, they tied. How is my tier list anyway people?
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
People....Meta Knight is not above Snake. Snake not only has a direct matchup advantage against Meta, he also has slightly better tourney outings, and seemingly limitless potential. And this is coming froma Meta Knight main......
And Ganondorf is better than Captain Falcon, easily. Falcon is terrible
And Ganondorf is better than Captain Falcon, easily. Falcon is terrible
I wouldn't say Snake has such an advantage over MK, speaking as an MK main who played against a few good high-placing Snakes in a tourney recently and didn't do too badly, granted I lost. Unless I'm gratuitously better than those guys (I'm not), I'd say the matchup is even, or only slightly in Snake's favor. Or I'm just ****ing nasty. I don't know, really. I will say that Snake probably is higher than MK.
@ FalcoLeetness: It seems to me like you still think Brawl is Melee. It's not. Let's see... people that need to be moved on your list:
Falco, Fox, MK, Toonie, Snake, Ike, Lucario, ROB, Sheik, ZSS, Olimar, IC's, Peach, Jiggz, Mario, Wolf, Wario, Samus, Pikachu, Pit, Kirby, Falcon, Dedede, Yoshi, Lucas, Ness, Boozer, DK.
On the plus side, you did get eight characters right. But this looks just like a Melee list. Please actually think about what you write before you post it.
@BdawgPHD: Snake doesn't have a glaring advantage over MK, but he certainly has a bit of an advantage. I don't think he has even one bad matchup. Broken, eh?
Falco, Fox, MK, Toonie, Snake, Ike, Lucario, ROB, Sheik, ZSS, Olimar, IC's, Peach, Jiggz, Mario, Wolf, Wario, Samus, Pikachu, Pit, Kirby, Falcon, Dedede, Yoshi, Lucas, Ness, Boozer, DK.
On the plus side, you did get eight characters right. But this looks just like a Melee list. Please actually think about what you write before you post it.
@BdawgPHD: Snake doesn't have a glaring advantage over MK, but he certainly has a bit of an advantage. I don't think he has even one bad matchup. Broken, eh?
Senior
Smash Rookie
Hate Samus and Lucario.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
Well, I would say DK,Pika, ROB, Toon Link, and Maybe DDD would be neutral against Snake maybe a slight advantage towards them.
@ Senior: Thanks.
@ NSS: Pika, ROB and Toonie I can see breaking even, but Dedede might be too slow to combat Snake's quick tilts. DK... I dunno, the only advantage I can see is his range on tilts and smashes. It's hard for him to approach in the first place, let alone against Snake.
@ NSS: Pika, ROB and Toonie I can see breaking even, but Dedede might be too slow to combat Snake's quick tilts. DK... I dunno, the only advantage I can see is his range on tilts and smashes. It's hard for him to approach in the first place, let alone against Snake.
Sh1n0b1
Smash Journeyman
I'd say Snake has an advantage over every character in this game. I remember a time when people thought Sonic was broken and Snake sucked. Man that was a long time ago.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
I always found Sonic to not be that good in the first place, I mean fanboys overrated him heavily. This is what happens when a character gets rushed.....
And I think I can bring up the DK-Snake aregument from the Matchup chart topic, brb
Edit:Alright here it is. By Nicktendo
"
DK counters snake.
1) dk isnt really slow
2) dk lives long; can eat quiet a few aaa and ftilts
3) dk has more range than snake. ftilt outranges his ftilt and so does fsmash
4) snakes recovery and dk = spiked snake. also dk has huge grab range, can grab snake out of the cypher well
5) down b > snakes motar sliding
6) down b > snakes dsmash mine
7) down b > snakes whole ground game
8) bair uair > snakes air game
9) DK can kill snake earlier than snake kills him
1. gimping - if snake comes anywhere near the stage with his cypher, he's dead, at ~ 40% grab him and cargo dthrow him off the ledge, then spike, at ~10%, if you can grab him near the ledge, backthrow and spike. everything but neutral air beats the cypher (sideb, upb, and neutral b included). if he tries to take the high route, sprint to the edge, double jump, and fair him, if you're quick enough you'll catch him. if he's off the edge past 110% and you don't kill him, you did something wrong.
2. super armor- you have 3 super armor options, two can be used as traditional attacks, the fully charged bpunch is very easy to connect against snake, great for approach, setting up gimps, or kills. upb is best saved as a counter move, if the snake player does a slow aaa combo, use this, if you just want him to gtfo for a bit, use this. his last super armor option is only useful against snake, because snake leaves mines, c4, and grenades lying around, if he drops a grenade to shield an attack, grab and cargo him, because you will have 2 full seconds of SA frames for the grenade to go off, not too practical, but very humiliating.
3. don't back away- dk has one of the best approaches in the game with his short hop double bair (only arguably worse than marth and wario), on top of this, if he expects the double bair, you can switch it up and do a bair to aerial sideb and either plant him in the ground or break his shield/lower it to a tiny dot, this does not set off grenades at snakes feet. also, as mentioned before, SA punch > snake
4. return fire - most snakes will not cook there first grenade, grab it and glide toss, because your glide toss goes about as far as snakes usmash slide, and allows you to set up either a grab if you stop in front of them, or a double bair if you go through em.
5. combos - utilt x4 to uair to standard juggle works well when they are at zero, fastfalled bair to ftilt is great, and up close aa to usmash gives you a free kill at 90%
6. Spacing - be ready to spam ftilt, dtilt, the back of utilt, downb, and the occasional fsmash, this could be a pokefest, and dk has larger range
seriously, a grab at 40% = dead snake. you outrange him, kill him earlier, can spike him easy or grab his cypher with huge grab range. Beat his ground and air game. Its a good matchup"
And I think I can bring up the DK-Snake aregument from the Matchup chart topic, brb
Edit:Alright here it is. By Nicktendo
"
DK counters snake.
1) dk isnt really slow
2) dk lives long; can eat quiet a few aaa and ftilts
3) dk has more range than snake. ftilt outranges his ftilt and so does fsmash
4) snakes recovery and dk = spiked snake. also dk has huge grab range, can grab snake out of the cypher well
5) down b > snakes motar sliding
6) down b > snakes dsmash mine
7) down b > snakes whole ground game
8) bair uair > snakes air game
9) DK can kill snake earlier than snake kills him
1. gimping - if snake comes anywhere near the stage with his cypher, he's dead, at ~ 40% grab him and cargo dthrow him off the ledge, then spike, at ~10%, if you can grab him near the ledge, backthrow and spike. everything but neutral air beats the cypher (sideb, upb, and neutral b included). if he tries to take the high route, sprint to the edge, double jump, and fair him, if you're quick enough you'll catch him. if he's off the edge past 110% and you don't kill him, you did something wrong.
2. super armor- you have 3 super armor options, two can be used as traditional attacks, the fully charged bpunch is very easy to connect against snake, great for approach, setting up gimps, or kills. upb is best saved as a counter move, if the snake player does a slow aaa combo, use this, if you just want him to gtfo for a bit, use this. his last super armor option is only useful against snake, because snake leaves mines, c4, and grenades lying around, if he drops a grenade to shield an attack, grab and cargo him, because you will have 2 full seconds of SA frames for the grenade to go off, not too practical, but very humiliating.
3. don't back away- dk has one of the best approaches in the game with his short hop double bair (only arguably worse than marth and wario), on top of this, if he expects the double bair, you can switch it up and do a bair to aerial sideb and either plant him in the ground or break his shield/lower it to a tiny dot, this does not set off grenades at snakes feet. also, as mentioned before, SA punch > snake
4. return fire - most snakes will not cook there first grenade, grab it and glide toss, because your glide toss goes about as far as snakes usmash slide, and allows you to set up either a grab if you stop in front of them, or a double bair if you go through em.
5. combos - utilt x4 to uair to standard juggle works well when they are at zero, fastfalled bair to ftilt is great, and up close aa to usmash gives you a free kill at 90%
6. Spacing - be ready to spam ftilt, dtilt, the back of utilt, downb, and the occasional fsmash, this could be a pokefest, and dk has larger range
seriously, a grab at 40% = dead snake. you outrange him, kill him earlier, can spike him easy or grab his cypher with huge grab range. Beat his ground and air game. Its a good matchup"
- Status