Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Too bad Falco the superior one in this case >_>


I worded that badly by the way. I meant if you killed the pokemon that supposedly you had an advantage on

 

[Ratherion]

I know, just saying that when melee first came out, everyone preceived characters like Luigi, Dr. Mario and Falco to be worse than their originals, yet they turned out to ranked higher/same teir.

Initital perception isn't a reason for ranking, is my point.

Additionally, unless you're facing an extremely quick mental player, if you take advantage in the change of playing styles, you can really get a jump on your opponent.

As a last point, most likely the real reason we aren't seeing any good PT trainer results in tournies and so forth is the reason everyone says he's bad.

You have to master 3 different playing styles, which no matter how one might argue, is going to take lots and lots of practise, time and tournies to actually get a good grip on what his maximum output is.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I know, just saying that when melee first came out, everyone preceived characters like Luigi, Dr. Mario and Falco to be worse than their originals, yet they turned out to ranked higher/same teir.

Initital perception isn't a reason for ranking, is my point.

Additionally, unless you're facing an extremely quick mental player, if you take advantage in the change of playing styles, you can really get a jump on your opponent.

As a last point, most likely the real reason we aren't seeing any good PT trainer results in tournies and so forth is the reason everyone says he's bad.

You have to master 3 different playing styles, which no matter how one might argue, is going to take lots and lots of practise, time and tournies to actually get a good grip on what his maximum output is.

That was very intial perception with very little tourney outings to back it up. Since it's been a couple of months we can at least make a couple of somewhat accurate perceptions. Remember, these perceptions can change on the fly, like Chu Dat showed, One person can make a considerable impact on Tier lists. Altough if the character is just plain flawed in some ways, like Bowser, even that one good player can't help all that much (Gimpyfish comes to mind).

And yes, in higher levels of play, you will encounter people who are that mentally quick. And if your changing from a Disadvantage to an advantage, maybe that could give you a jump on the opponent, but if your switching into a disadvantaged one, your really hurting yourself and your opponent would likely know this.

You may have a point. This is similar to the Zelda situation. All you can do at this point and time is to wait and see. No other answer is viable. Altough when you take into account the 3 playstyles thing, it's a slightly more viable arguement

 

[Ratherion]

Yay! I didn't get flamed!

And that, people, is a good reason to construct logical arguments.

Anyhow, thanks for being smart. I'll just have to become godly with PT and prove Smashboards wrong .

 

[Zm4rf]

T00N L1NK 4R3 T0P!!!!1!onE!22@2#$

But seriously, what is all this Zelda business about?

I don't want to sound like a hater, I'm just curious: Where'd she come from?

 

[The PaTROLL]

Nintendo characters except pokemon suck, thats why sonic is top tiers.

 

[Ratherion]

T00N L1NK 4R3 T0P!!!!1!onE!22@2#$

But seriously, what is all this Zelda business about?

I don't want to sound like a hater, I'm just curious: Where'd she come from?

Godly projectile, excellent tilts, good recovery, reflector, good smashes, what's not to like?

 

[The PaTROLL]

Tier list:

Top:
Sonic
Snake

High:
Kirby
Pikachu
Some other guys

Middle Tier:
I dont know

Low tier:
Sakurai

Bottom Tier:
Mario because he sucks

 

[Ratherion]

I see you like to live up to your namesake.

Can someone ban him?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I REALLY hope your kidding, or at the very least, trolling.



Edit: Yep, just saw his name, he's a troll alright. Let him continue being stupid, he'll get banned soon enough.

 

[The PaTROLL]

I see you like to live up to your namesake.

Can someone ban him?

There is no reason for that my posts are legit. Im just mad samuraipanda locked one of mine.

 

[MakesMeFeelUnique]

Would anyone want to post their opinion on Jigglypuff?

I haven't seen much opinion on this thread on her. Jigglypuff is my top main, mostly due to comic relief.
Other than her weight and ground game, I think that she's pretty good.

Although, I'm still curious about other people's opinions. I don't know whether to find another main or stick with Jigglypuff.

 

[Ratherion]

Jiggly is for kicks and giggles, unless you're really dedicated, kind of like in melee.

 

[Sonic XD]

What do you think about ICs being Top tier? They have the best infinites.

 

[massimo009]

Tlink has alot of potential for tourney play, but people just aren't using him to the best of his ability... i can go on forever on why hes so great but ill just stop here

 

[Fish13srg]

Hey, I can play Jigglypuff just fine.

I'm saddened to continually see her in such low tiers, but I think that in this game, one can really be good with anyone they want... I've got a friend who plays about as well as I do, with a really nasty Lucas, and I can do pretty decently with Jigglypuff against him.

 

[Sonic XD]

Ice climbers might be top tier because of their infinites.

 

[Ratherion]

Um, not really.

That's like saying "Marth is God Teir because his FS is the best."

 

[Sonic XD]

Actually Sonic has the best FS.

 

[Ratherion]

That's arguable, Marth's is a surefire KO that can be combo'd into, but my point it that infinites are banned from most tournies.

 

[Sonic XD]

No infinites are Not really banned from most tournies. So far it has only been banned in most of texas and i mean ONLY most. And that is because Xyro is a scrub. Infinites are not always gonna get banned in tournies.

 

[Deathcarter]

What do you think about ICs being Top tier? They have the best infinites.

Personally, they would be top-mid tier. Their grab range is short (unlike Marth's/Dedede's), they cannot use their projectile to camp outside of Final Destination (if they DO camp), and their approach is meh (like in the league of Zelda's). Plus, Popo is easy to dispose of when Nana is gone and their range is nothing special.

My Tier List:

Bottom tier
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf

(Really large gap consisting of the 33-36 characters I did not mention)

Top tier
Metaknight
Snake

(Captain Falcon is so manly, he would not settle for bottom of the list, so he reversed the laws of physics. He is still bottom tier, he just is not in the bottom. )

 

[Sonic XD]

It doesnt matter even if their grab range is short, its like if you get grabbed you get smashed or chaingrabbed.

 

[Ratherion]

No infinites are Not really banned from most tournies. So far it has only been banned in most of texas and i mean ONLY most. And that is because Xyro is a scrub. Infinites are not always gonna get banned in tournies.

Have fun with Smash 64 then, where 90% of the cast has about 6 different 0-death combos.

 

[Fish13srg]

Well, when you think about it, anything in the game except grabs can be power-shielded, right? If your timing is good enough? So wouldn't that mean that the character with the best grabs wins, always?

If so, it then follows that the Ice Climbers are the best character in the game. Followed by other various characters such as Ness.

However, that kinda conflicts with everything else we know... so no. IC are not high-tier.

 

[Sonic XD]

Have fun with Smash 64 then, where 90% of the cast has about 6 different 0-death combos.

Ok, now you are being rude. First of all there are a lot of things that are not yet found in brawl. You are not supposed to assume that this is a problem for all tournies.

 

[Sonic XD]

Well, when you think about it, anything in the game except grabs can be power-shielded, right? If your timing is good enough? So wouldn't that mean that the character with the best grabs wins, always?

If so, it then follows that the Ice Climbers are the best character in the game. Followed by other various characters such as Ness.

However, that kinda conflicts with everything else we know... so no. IC are not high-tier.

It is likely that the IC are high tier, but probably mid-high because of their other weaknesses.

 

[Deathcarter]

It doesnt matter even if their grab range is short, its like if you get grabbed you get smashed or chaingrabbed.

A short grab range DOES matter. Almost all characters in top/upper high tiers has tools for spacing aka snake, metaknight, olimar, toon link, G&W, MARTH, Zelda. Also Captain Falcon/Jigglypuff players complain about short grab ranges.

Also, you did not cover for their other shortcomings.

 

[Fish13srg]

Ok, now you are being rude. First of all there are a lot of things that are not yet found in brawl. You are not supposed to assume that this is a problem for all tournies.

For the moment, however the Ice Climbers' 0-to-kill grab combo makes it just about impossible for the other guy to win. Which is why it should be banned.

 

[Ratherion]

Simply saying, infinites do make a character high teir, nor do they make the game competitive, if it did, silent wolf would be the best Brawl player, due to his immense technical skill, but he's not.

All around character awesomeness > broken grabs.

 

[Sonic XD]

The Ice Climbers will probably be high tier though. Popo can grab and Nana can smash with the c-stick.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

But does that still matter when you kill the Pokemon you have an disadvantage on?


Having an advantage for only 1/3 of the match is not good at all. Your opponent is not just gonna let you switch all will without you eating your opponent's strongest smash/Special, which is putting that stock in danger.

PT is not even close to High tier or even Mid Tier at this point in time. He ranks very low in tourney outings, isn't percieved to be that good in the first place, and shifting matchups are not a good thing in competitive play.

you really only have to play 2 pokes.. and the invicibilty from a spawn allows a free switch, as does an off the top KO or a big hit away from the edge

 

[Sonic XD]

The Ice Climbers have some advantages in this game, and a good player can get around their weaknesses.

 

[Fish13srg]

So... same as Melee.

 

[Sonic XD]

Has anyone seen Hylian's ICs? They are really good chaingrabbers. You can see how deadly the ICs are just by watching him play.

 

[Sonic XD]

Bigger characters are easier to chaingrab. Snake is actually a bigger character.

 

[Ratherion]

you really only have to play 2 pokes.. and the invicibilty from a spawn allows a free switch, as does an off the top KO or a big hit away from the edge

But playing all three makes you much better.

 

[Sonic XD]

But playing all three makes you much better.

I did not understand what you just said.

 

[Ratherion]

Now you should.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

But playing all three makes you much better.

not at ALL true.

KNOWING how to play as all three is a huge advantage, but when one poke matches up very poorly against whoever your oponent happens to be is a big problem.