Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Conda]

@ Midnight: You have a "Get this for free" ad in your sig. You don't matter.
@Chansen: Broken links rock.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

i bet bowser, dk and maybe olimar are going to be bottem

 

[Browny]

To whomever posted the Sonic comment; go play a good Meta Knight, Snake, Falco, G&W, etc.

oh please, the most overused and meaningless statement that plagues these boards.

go play a good sonic then. or better yet, go watch some videos of great sonic players vs great falco, GW players etc

 

[chansen]

the link works again if anyone cares.

 

[A2ZOMG]

People who say sonic is low tier suck at this game and should suck crap.

Nuff said.

lol.

The people who say this are good tournament players who have used him.

Sonic's main weakness is having bad priority. That is an automatic reason to be low tier. You can't actually be that good if your attack priority sucks. This means whenever you attack, there will be someone that is actually able to attack at the same time you do, which always results in you being owned.

Which doesn't help the fact he has pretty lousy kill options.

Yes, he can run fast, which supposedly can be used for a hit and run game and to punish someone for doing something stupid, except no good player is going to be stupid and use something really laggy before they let Sonic approach. Also he has no projectiles (which are a form of priority, mind you), so ultimately his running speed isn't all that helpful for him.

What's really pathetic is that G&W is the kind of character that can pretty much do everything Sonic can, but better because his priority is really freaking good, and his kill options are STRONG. That's just how pathetic Sonic is in the grand scheme of things.

 

[1HKO]

It's sad how desperate people are for tier lists, this thread and how long it has gone on for proves it...

Actually it's sad how many people make side topics on this thread (me included). I mean it's all good and well showing your personal tier list but this is almost like a chat room(whispers *imahyppocrit*)

 

[Corigames]

*Editted Information in MY quote

First off, don't change the quote information. If you have something to say, say it. Don't go backwards and say that I suck by changing the words in my text. That's annoying, misleading, and, I'm pretty sure, plagiarism.

Second, Mr. Sep 2007 join date, don't lecture me on who is good or bad. Yoshi, is BAD. If he were the only character, then he would... STILL BE BAD! Yoshi has always been bad. If you can't deal with it, then go play Mario Party where you have a good chance of winning with him. I have more experience than you, I know more things than you, and I play better than you. I'm sure I could beat whoever you play with Yoshi, and guess what? That still wouldn't make him ANY better!

So, to anyone else who thinks that Yoshi is better than what everyone says, then, instead of *****ing about how everyone mistreats him, prove me wrong and go and win a tournament, all the way, with him. When you do that, I'll tip my hat to you and say, "Never mind."

 

[bigman40]

Wow, so many people here are so testy here. You make it seem like yoshi is nothing but complete garbage. I'll admit that yoshi was bad in melee (high difficulty and lack of thrid jump, etc.), but at least say that he's better than before. You don't know that you're better than him (looking from both sides). Yes, we should go to tournaments to prove you wrong, yet, some people don't have the same luxury to be able to go to tournaments. Even if if some could, there chances are pretty low unless those people are in states that hosts tons of tournaments at numerous places within that state. I can't prove anything to you (unless you can stand wifi) since I'm a college bound kid in a place where no tournaments are even close within 5 hours at least.

Lets at least stay on topic and avoid these blatant, stupid arguments that won't move people any close to the task at hand. I have played quite alot with yoshi and against many other players (most good, most bad), and I have to say that yoshi can earn at most bottom of mid tier or somewhere high of low tier. If I need to elaborate on this then let me know.

 

[Gindler]

As far as bigman goes and being a fellow yoshi main I know how good yoshi can be, I tend to do quite well against tourney winners in my area although I seriously doubt I'll ever win a tournament worth mentioning, with that said here's my somewhat nonstupid tier list.

Top-
Snake
MetaKnight
Mr. Game & Watch
Toon Link

High-
Marth
Falco
R.O.B.
Wolf
Olimar
Pit
Zelda
Pikachu

Middle-
Lucas
Ice Climbers
Zero Suit Samus
Pokemon Trainer (I combined them as well)
Fox
King Dedede
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Ivysaur
Ness
Luigi
Lucario
Squirtle
Ike
Donkey Kong
Yoshi

Low-
Wario (although I've heard how good he is, I haven't seen a valid example around here)
Charizard
Bowser
Mario
Peach
Sonic
Sheik
Samus

Bottom-
Link
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

Oh and yes, I've seen a Good C.Falcon beat a Good Snake. So the bottom beating the best, unlike this being impossible in melee it's all too possible in brawl.

 

[BlackYoshi7]

Do any of the other characters besides Snake and Meta Knight even matter in in the tier list? From what I've seen, they seem to just be on a whole different level from the rest of the mostly balanced characters. If there is a Brawl tourney scene, it's probably going to be dominated by those two moreso than Melee was dominated by Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik.

 

[SonicLucario]

I don't think Yoshi deserves all the crap he gets.He really isn't bad and can be tough to play against if you don't know what to expect.

 

[bigman40]

I find it funny that your name is blackyoshi with a wolf main XP

Anywho, you're right. Most people are finding that snake and meta are on different levels than the rest of the cast. We might see nothing but them, but soon, think we might find that these two characters will begin to fall back down to normalcy (can't spell atm) if enough adv. Techs come to other characters (or anything that helps the others). If not, then we will see mostly snakes and metas with a side factor of some who are willing to stay by their main.

 

[bluebolt]

1 sakurai asked to not have tiers
2. tiers are for queers

 

[Browny]

thats at least until people counter those 2. so far DK is looking like a good snake counter (spike out of cypher = lol) and wario/pikachu can hold thier own pretty d@mn well against snake. as for MK, idk use snake to counter him? hahaha. honestly though i think lucario/marth are the best counter to MK. then who counters DK/wario/pika/lucario/marth?

at least thats how i hope things turn out.... snake and MK domination makes tourney vids boring to watch when the best players all use the same characters. watching futile dominate with wario really is entertaining.

 

[JesiahTEG]

TOP:
Marth
Pit

HIGH:
Fox
Olimar
Pikachu
Wolf
Toon Link
Falco

MIDDLE:
Ivysaur
Luigi
Metaknight
Squirtle
Charizard
Metaknight
Wolf
Falco
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Mario
Sonic
Game and Watch
Donkey Kong
Ike
DeDeDe
Lucario
Ness

LOW:
Lucas
Zamus
Sheik
Ganon
Link
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers


BOTTOM:
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Bowser
Yoshi
Peach
Samus

Wow, look at this guy...Not only does he not have Snake as top tier, but he doesn't even HAVE him on his tier list! I guess Snake's really that bad.

 

[Corigames]

Wow, look at this guy...Not only does he not have Snake as top tier, but he doesn't even HAVE him on his tier list! I guess Snake's really that bad.

Maybe you are thinking backwards? Maybe he is so good, he's not even on the list. The guy needed to make his bigger to fit him on, like this:

God:
Snake
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Top:
MK

See what I mean?

 

[Mike_Echoes]

TOP:
Marth
Pit

HIGH:
Fox
Olimar
Pikachu
Wolf
Toon Link
Falco

MIDDLE:
Ivysaur
Luigi
Metaknight
Squirtle
Charizard
Metaknight
Wolf
Falco
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Mario
Sonic
Game and Watch
Donkey Kong
Ike
DeDeDe
Lucario
Ness

LOW:
Lucas
Zamus
Sheik
Ganon
Link
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers


BOTTOM:
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Bowser
Yoshi
Peach
Samus

Kirby at Bottom Tier? No way!

 

[Browny]

my turn again, this time ill do 4 tiers instead of 3...

Top-
Snake
MK
G&W
Marth
TL
Falco
ROB
Pikachu

High-
Wario
Lucario
Wolf
Olimar
Kirby
Donkey kong
Diddy kong
King Dedede
Ness
Luigi

Mid-
Lucas
Sonic
Zelda
Mario
Fox
Ice Climbers
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Zamus
Link
Ike

Meh-
Yoshi
Bowser
Samus
Shiek
Jigglypuff
Charizard
Peach
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

im discounting infinites, since it horribly skews everything, and one bad matchup (you know what i mean) isnt worth enough imo

 

[Sonic XD]

What would make snake top tier in this game?

 

[katanagash]

my turn again, this time ill do 4 tiers instead of 3...

Top-
Snake
MK
G&W
Marth
TL
Falco
ROB
Pikachu

High-
Wario
Lucario
Wolf
Olimar
Kirby
Donkey kong
Diddy kong
King Dedede
Ness
Luigi

Mid-
Lucas
Sonic
Zelda
Mario
Fox
Ice Climbers
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Zamus
Link
Ike

Meh-
Yoshi
Bowser
Samus
Shiek
Jigglypuff
Charizard
Peach
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

im discounting infinites, since it horribly skews everything, and one bad matchup (you know what i mean) isnt worth enough imo

I can already tell that you based this tier list from the character counterpick matchup chart. Remember just because a character like Bowser is countered by a bunch of other people doesn't mean that he's gonna be low tier. (or in your words "Meh")

 

[Shark Week]

that last list from djbrowny is pretty atrocious.

 

[Browny]

care to state why? or are you just trolling today.

@ sonicXD, because he just is,
@katanagash, i hate that matchup chart with a passion, everything about it annoys me and i certainly didnt look at it when i wrote that. if anything i based my list more off the recent tourney results thread, hence the rise of DK and fall of diddy, zelda, fox and others

 

[Shark Week]

no, not really... i have other things to do today, believe it or not.

let's just say, i saw ness in high, skipped to the bottom and saw charizard and bowser at the end, and typed my reply. i actually don't even know how many things are wrong with your list... i just know it's not good

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Now I wouldn't say Snake is THAT far ahead of MK >_>. They're pretty close, but a direct matchup advantage and better tourney output so far would put him over the Top.


Anyways, sure MK and Snake may dominate for now, but wasn't Fox dominating for a while in Melee? That's when they adjusted and learne HOW to beat him and he wasn't quite as dominate, albeit still good enough to be at the top of the list.

Also, that matchup chart may be useful, but to say it's completely accurate is laughable. Espiacially on DDD's matchups.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

First off, don't change the quote information. If you have something to say, say it. Don't go backwards and say that I suck by changing the words in my text. That's annoying, misleading, and, I'm pretty sure, plagiarism.

Second, Mr. Sep 2007 join date, don't lecture me on who is good or bad. Yoshi, is BAD. If he were the only character, then he would... STILL BE BAD! Yoshi has always been bad. If you can't deal with it, then go play Mario Party where you have a good chance of winning with him. I have more experience than you, I know more things than you, and I play better than you. I'm sure I could beat whoever you play with Yoshi, and guess what? That still wouldn't make him ANY better!

So, to anyone else who thinks that Yoshi is better than what everyone says, then, instead of *****ing about how everyone mistreats him, prove me wrong and go and win a tournament, all the way, with him. When you do that, I'll tip my hat to you and say, "Never mind."

Not to say I don't agree with you, because I do. That just slightly came off as elitist with the Mr Sep join date thing >_>.

 

[Deleted member]

^^NGS, please stop double posting. It's against the rules.

What would make snake top tier in this game?

He's heavy, he's got projectiles, et cetera...

 

[Emblem Lord]

I have said it before and I'll say it again.

Match-ups are everything.

If Bowser has a bunch of bad match-ups then, yes he WILL be low tier.

How could he be any higher if he is at disadvantage vs the majority of the cast?

Also tourney results are so skewed right now it's not even funny.

 

[Shark Week]

the problem is getting the match ups right... the chart in that match up thread has a lot of bad info in it :/

 

[Emblem Lord]

I agree.

But it gets better everyday and honestly that's because people have NO idea what they are talking about and say the dumbest things in that thread.

But as time goes on the chart will be more and more accurate.

That said, I'm pretty much done with the match-up chart since Marth's match-ups are done. So I have no real reason to post anything unless someone needs clarification on one of his match-ups.

 

[TehBo49]

my turn again, this time ill do 4 tiers instead of 3...

Top-
Snake
MK
G&W
Marth
TL
Falco
ROB
Pikachu

High-
Wario
Lucario
Wolf
Olimar
Kirby
Donkey kong
Diddy kong
King Dedede
Ness
Luigi

Mid-
Lucas
Sonic
Zelda
Mario
Fox
Ice Climbers
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Zamus
Link
Ike

Meh-
Yoshi
Bowser
Samus
Shiek
Jigglypuff
Charizard
Peach
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

im discounting infinites, since it horribly skews everything, and one bad matchup (you know what i mean) isnt worth enough imo

Ness is definitely not above Lucas; Ness should be in the middle of mid. Zamus should be at the top of mid, ICs should be at least high, Bowser should be mid, & Sonic should be "meh." Those things stood out to me the most.

 

[Gindler]

I find it funny that your name is blackyoshi with a wolf main XP

Anywho, you're right. Most people are finding that snake and meta are on different levels than the rest of the cast. We might see nothing but them, but soon, think we might find that these two characters will begin to fall back down to normalcy (can't spell atm) if enough adv. Techs come to other characters (or anything that helps the others). If not, then we will see mostly snakes and metas with a side factor of some who are willing to stay by their main.

I really hope it doesn't just become Snake's and MK's at the tournies, but never the less I will never abandon yoshi for those increasingly bland characters. Besides, once everyone does use snake and MK alot of weaknesses of there's will be found for sure.

 

[DanGR]

My tier list(5 tiers) updated. Since Snake and MK are broken, I’ve put them in their own tier. CG included b/c as of now, it’s legal. It’s open for correction, but please give reasons and don’t just say for example: “Sonic lowest? Wth?” just tell me why you think he should be higher even with his low range and pitiful priority.

God-
Snake
MK

High-
Marth
G&W
TL
Falco
ROB
Pikachu
Diddy Kong
Wolf
IC

Mid-
Olimar
Wario
Lucario
Pit
DDD
Fox
Squirtle
Kirby
Big DK
Bowser

Low-
Zamus
Ivysaur
Zelda
Ike
Sheik
Lucas
Luigi
Yoshi

Lowest-
Ness
Samus
Mario
Link
Sonic
Charizard
Peach
Jiggs
Ganon
CF

EDIT UPDATE:
Pit included

 

[Shark Week]

ugh... too much to correct.

i'll just say that pt is one character and move on.

 

[Sonic XD]

Sonic should be mid tier because expert sonic users can get around his weaknesses. Also, sonic has good recovery and recovery gimping. He also has an Usmash that can dash cancel.

 

[Kyzon Xin]

I use link as a snake counter.. bomb for bomb as i say... land mine?? throw a bomb on it.. mortar slide??? Boost Up smash... i think link should be at least middle tier.. (even though i dont use him)

 

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

I use link as a snake counter.. bomb for bomb as i say... land mine?? throw a bomb on it.. mortar slide??? Boost Up smash... i think link should be at least middle tier.. (even though i dont use him)

Pikachu is the biggest Snake counter, easily.

 

[Nicktendo]

DK and Dedede both own

 

[Lenus Altair]

my turn again, this time ill do 4 tiers instead of 3...

Top-
Snake
MK
G&W
Marth
TL
Falco
ROB
Pikachu

High-
Wario
Lucario
Wolf
Olimar
Kirby
Donkey kong
Diddy kong
King Dedede
Ness
Luigi

Mid-
Lucas
Sonic
Zelda
Mario
Fox
Ice Climbers
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Zamus
Link
Ike

Meh-
Yoshi
Bowser
Samus
Shiek
Jigglypuff
Charizard
Peach
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

im discounting infinites, since it horribly skews everything, and one bad matchup (you know what i mean) isnt worth enough imo

My tier list(5 tiers) updated. Since Snake and MK are broken, I’ve put them in their own tier. CG included b/c as of now, it’s legal. It’s open for correction, but please give reasons and don’t just say for example: “Sonic lowest? Wth?” just tell me why you think he should be higher even with his low range and pitiful priority.

God-
Snake
MK

High-
Marth
G&W
TL
Falco
ROB
Pikachu
Diddy Kong
Wolf
IC

Mid-
Olimar
Wario
Lucario
DDD
Fox
Squirtle
Kirby
Big DK
Bowser

Low-
Zamus
Ivysaur
Zelda
Ike
Sheik
Lucas
Luigi
Yoshi

Lowest-
Ness
Samus
Mario
Link
Sonic
Charizard
Peach
Jiggs
Ganon
CF

You both left out Pit.

How sad...

 

[TehBo49]

Pikachu is the biggest Snake counter, easily.

Him or Falco.

 

[DanGR]

You both left out Pit.

How sad...

my bad. lol