Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[bigman40]

Sigh. I love the fact Yoshi is at the bottom. Keep it up guys! I'll love to change opinions of Yoshi when I play them. It's very unfortunate that I'm college-bound at a place that barely hosts ANY tournaments T_T

 

[orintemple]

Sigh. I love the fact Yoshi is at the bottom. Keep it up guys! I'll love to change opinions of Yoshi when I play them. It's very unfortunate that I'm college-bound at a place that barely hosts ANY tournaments T_T

I agree that Yoshi is better than people give him credit. I am quite surprised that he is regarded as so bad. I honestly do not believe he is that terrible. He has no third jump or even a tether which kills him, and his shield is really slow to drop, but he has some good sides too. His smashes, particularly up and down are quite good. His back air is good and can be comboed into an u-smash sometimes. His u-air is beastly powerful and quick. He also has super armor on his second jump which helps him a lot.

I think Yoshi will prove to be somewhat better than he seems. Not saying he will be great, but maybe even up to low tier material.

 

[Veil2222]

I've revisited sonic, and I really underestimated him. He's mid to me now with his off the edge chasing and comboing/grab combos, he even has some true combos (near inescapable at the right percents). I've been able to really hurt big characters, heavies, and fast fallers, at the same time he can kill floaties off the top at low percents. He doesn't do good if characters can make it past 150% as his combos fall apart, he has some priority issues, and I'd say about 5 characters on the roster give him a struggle. I don't think it's enough to land him in low, I feel very strongly he's a solid mid.

 

[Xiivi]

I agree that Yoshi is better than people give him credit. I am quite surprised that he is regarded as so bad. I honestly do not believe he is that terrible. He has no third jump or even a tether which kills him, and his shield is really slow to drop, but he has some good sides too. His smashes, particularly up and down are quite good. His back air is good and can be comboed into an u-smash sometimes. His u-air is beastly powerful and quick. He also has super armor on his second jump which helps him a lot.

I think Yoshi will prove to be somewhat better than he seems. Not saying he will be great, but maybe even up to low tier material.

You forgot some more bad parts about his shield, which is the worst in the game. Not only is it slower to drop (it isn't that much slower though, this is rather negligible), you also cannot jump out of it. Couple this with his very slow roll and you have Yoshi in quite a bind. This causes Yoshi's options with the shield to drop considerably when compared to the rest of the cast and give him poor defensive options overall. However, he does have a third jump provided you do it in the correct order. Instead of 2nd jump, egg; do egg, 2nd jump. It is much better. http://youtube.com/watch?v=5d9uw30AEl8 As you can see with this Yoshi player, his recovery options are not as poor as some would believe. Also, Yoshi has a very strong grab game with his pivot grabs. However, his weight + floatiness combination hurt him a lot as well. He is much easier to combo/carry and thus control. While his aerial priority is nothing to scoff at, he is beaten out by many characters in the air.

Basically Yoshi has a:
Slightly subpar but workable recovery.
A very nice grab game.
A fair ground game.
A fair air game.
Generally poor defensive options.

These are the makings of a low tier character, not bottom tier, but he's low.

 

[BDawgPHD]

If no one has posted this yet / if anyone cares, here is a tier list created solely off of the match-up chart thread. it is actually pretty reasonable and realistic. there are however some factors not inputted. Tier lists are largely based on tournament results. The factors such as player skill and character representation can turn the outcome of tourney results.

Without further ado, the Scoring system.
NOTE: the blank/disputed spots were considered disadvantages besed on the theory that if the player didnt know wether or not he had an adv, he wouldnt know how to play that specific character, and lose. characters did not face themselves.

characters had on average 2-4 disputes except for ZSS, Zelda, Wario, and Peach, who had the most, so their positions could change a bit.

39 total (all pokes/shiek/ZSS)
Adv-Netral-Disadv
(Player above's score)

Bowser:3-5-30
(-27)
Falcon:1-2-35
(-34)
Charizard:7-6-25
(-18)
Diddy:14-5-19
(-5)
Donkey:6-9-23
(-17)
Falco:25-7-6
(19)
Fox:9-11-18
(-9)
GnW:29-4-5
(24)
Ganon:1-5-32
(-31)
IC:18-9-11
(7)
Ike:6-4-28
(-22)
Ivy:7-10-21
(-14)
Purin:5-5-28
(-23)
3D:11-6-21
(-10)
Kirby:17-6-15
(2)
Link:10-7-21
(-11)
Lucario:11-13-14
(-3)
Lucas:16-9-13
(3)
Luigi:8-5-25
(-17)
Mario:5-7-26
(-21)
Marth:25-5-8
(17)
MK:31-3-4
(27)
Ness:17-3-18
(-1)
Peach:4-4-30
(-26)
Pika:18-4-16
(2)
Olimar:20-3-15
(5)
Pit:24-4-10
(14)
R.O.B:23-4-11
(12)
Samus:12-4-22
(-10)
Shiek7-7-24
(-17)
Snake:26-5-7
(19)
Sonic:8-6-24
(-16)
Squirtle:9-6-23
(-14)
Toon Link:24-3-11
(13)
Wario:12-8-18
(-6)
Wolf:21-4-13
(7)
Yoshi:2-4-32
(-30)
Zelda:19-8-11
(8)
ZSS:15-4-19
(-4)

And now, the tier list that would be created from these results:
NOTE: incase of tie, the character with more neuterals will be higher.

TOP:
MetaKnight
Game and Watch

~big gap~

HIGH:
Falco
Snake
Marth
Pit
Toon Link

MIDDLE:
ROB
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Olimar
Lucas
Kirby
Pikachu
Ness
Lucario
ZSS
Diddy
Wario
Fox
3D
Samus

LOW:
Link
Ivy
Squirtle
Sonic
DK
Shiek
Luigi
Charizard
Mario
Ike

BOTTOM:
Purin
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi
Ganon
Captain Falcon

EDIT:
someone fairly earlier quoted someone much earlier saying to pit every character against one another to find tiers. this was my main motivation, so, yeah...

First of all, not knowing how to play a certain matchup is NOT a disadvantaged matchup for the character, so much as the player. That's YOUR inability to decide whether it's advantageous, neutral, or bad.

Second of all, what is this data based on?

Until you can rationalize both of those, it's fair to say that your tier list is very problematic.

 

[hungrybox]

My brother changes the yoshi tier list

Purin is bottom.

Make sure of that.

MK is top.
DDD is high-mid or higher
Link is bottom
Sonic is low or bottom
Yoshi is low or low-mid
Ike is Mid
Pit is high or top
Marth is high or less
toon link is the bottom of high
Olimar is low-high or high mid
Falco is high
So is snake
Rob is the top of middle
bowser is low
peach is bottom
wolf and fox are middle
PT is the middle of the entire list
Mario and Luigi are top of Low or bottom of middle or higher
Lucas is high-mid
Ness is low-mid
DK is low-mid
Ganon/CF are low/bottom

that's all for now

 

[simmeh]

Hm... the matchup tier list at least makes sense, because it's based on data.

One question I would make about it would be this: should good matchups against other characters who have lots of good matchups be given more weight? I know that might be a bit hard to work out, but wouldn't that make at least some sense?

 

[Grunt]

First of all, not knowing how to play a certain matchup is NOT a disadvantaged matchup for the character, so much as the player. That's YOUR inability to decide whether it's advantageous, neutral, or bad.

Second of all, what is this data based on?

Until you can rationalize both of those, it's fair to say that your tier list is very problematic.

Yes, this has been changed. disputes were counted as neutral. check the updated one.

the creator of the thread got most of his starting data from the character specific forums currently debating their match ups. after the chart, it has continued to be debated in his own thread. yes there are still some disputes which could drastically alter the positions. also, no tier list is final. chances are, there will be some adv/disadv switched due to some change in metagame, but as of right now, most are right. If you see a blaring problem, i recommend you go say something in the matchup thread.

 

[Browny]

@ simmeh
provided the actual match up data was correct, which it isnt by a mile, that would make it incredibly accurate for characters rankings, although it may not be the same as real tiers. and would be extremely tedious to calculate lol

 

[Goten88]

Im from North Carolina and ive been a veteran for all 3 smash games

here is my opinion for super smash brothers brawl tier list



top tier (not in any order)

Pit
Olimar
Toon Link
Wolf
Falco
game and watch

middle tier

mario
fox
luigi
snake
zelda/sheik
marth

The remaining characters are well balanced



please post feedback

 

[superglucose]

Metaknight is crazy good, and he's absent from your top tier. That's really my big concern.

With regards to the Marth debate, he's fantastic but he's not nearly the "OMG we're all going to die!" powerhouses that MK and GW are turning out to be (in my opinion, at least). Top of high, certainly, but well balanced with respect to the rest of the high tier players.

 

[Frown]

Im from North Carolina and ive been a veteran for all 3 smash games

here is my opinion for super smash brothers brawl tier list



top tier (not in any order)

Pit
Olimar
Toon Link
Wolf
Falco
game and watch

middle tier

mario
fox
luigi
snake
zelda/sheik
marth

The remaining characters are well balanced



please post feedback

Great example of what somebody's first post looks like.

You've got point there. There shouldn't really be more than 3 tiers, seeing how well-balanced the game is.

 

[salaboB]

You forgot some more bad parts about his shield, which is the worst in the game. Not only is it slower to drop (it isn't that much slower though, this is rather negligible), you also cannot jump out of it. Couple this with his very slow roll and you have Yoshi in quite a bind.

Does its inability to be poked not negate some of that a bit? It seems like Yoshi just needs to have a different mindset about when to shield and when not to, as he does with so many other things as well.

 

[VEC]

Pika, Luigi, Snake, Peach, Lucario, Sheik tier predictions.

Opinions Please.

 

[Unusual_Rex]

Pikachu I'd say around high-mid tier. Snake High/Top. Peach middle of the mid tier. Lucario high in the mid tier. Sheik would be around low-middle tier.

 

[Gindler]

You forgot some more bad parts about his shield, which is the worst in the game. Not only is it slower to drop (it isn't that much slower though, this is rather negligible), you also cannot jump out of it. Couple this with his very slow roll and you have Yoshi in quite a bind. This causes Yoshi's options with the shield to drop considerably when compared to the rest of the cast and give him poor defensive options overall. However, he does have a third jump provided you do it in the correct order. Instead of 2nd jump, egg; do egg, 2nd jump. It is much better. http://youtube.com/watch?v=5d9uw30AEl8 As you can see with this Yoshi player, his recovery options are not as poor as some would believe. Also, Yoshi has a very strong grab game with his pivot grabs. However, his weight + floatiness combination hurt him a lot as well. He is much easier to combo/carry and thus control. While his aerial priority is nothing to scoff at, he is beaten out by many characters in the air.

Basically Yoshi has a:
Slightly subpar but workable recovery.
A very nice grab game.
A fair ground game.
A fair air game.
Generally poor defensive options.

These are the makings of a low tier character, not bottom tier, but he's low.

True, yoshi's shield is a bit slower to drop (like 2-5 frames i think I read which there are 60 frames in a second so as you said no big deal really) and he can't really roll very far while in it although he has invincibility frames during some of the roll the only real advantage the egg shield has over any other shield in the game is you won't be shield poked (you should all know what that is by now) so it has more disadvantages than advantages for sure.

I would say yoshi has the best weight to speed in the game, he's one of the heavier characters and he's one of the faster ones too (slightly faster than toon link believe it or not) and he's not that floaty until after you use the 2nd jump (yes his fall speed after first jump and second jump are different) so he can float under a descending character to kill with the overpowered Uair of his.

So I'd have to say Basically Yoshi has a:
A good recovery for distance and height but can be gimped somewhat easily.
A very nice grab game.
A fair ground game. (agree with you there)
An above average air game (bair combos to tilts and smashes though)
Generally poor defensive options. (unless you sidestep rather than shield then he's on par with everyone else)

 

[ginobeeto]

here's what i'm thinking the tiers lists should be:

- top -
toon link, marth, falco, snake, wolf

- high -
pikachu, Pit, ROB, Ice Climbers, Game n Watch

- middle -
zelda/sheik, yoshi, peach , samus, luigi

- low -
ganondorf, dedede, sonic, c. falcon, link

- bottom -
DK, jigglypuff, mario, bowser

as you can see, i only listed some of the characters. also, the characters in each tier are in no particular order.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Why is Dedede so low? And Yoshi so high? Explain yourself.

 

[Laijin]

Why is Dedede so low? And Yoshi so high? Explain yourself.

DDD fails. Yoshi is amazing in this game.
Honestly, nobody should problems against DDD. Just pick Kirby or Metaknight and its autowin.
That tier list is pretty stupid though.

Wolf, Falco and Marth should be no where near the top.
Anyways. Here is my tier list. Based around Kirby. Cause that is about the only way to view a tier list.

Top:
Snake
Metaknight
Game and Watch
Zelda

High:
Kirby
Lucas
Marth
Yoshi
Pikachu
Toon Link
Peach
PT

Mid:
Fox
ZSS
Bowser
Diddy
Lucario
ROB
Sonic
Dedede
ICs
Pit
Mario
Ness

Low:
Olimar
Wolf
Wario
DK
Ganon
Luigi
Sheik

Bottom:
Ike
Falcon
Falco
Samus
Jiggs
Link(Honestly. I dont know who should go lower. Jiggs or Link).

 

[FrozenFire13]

DDD fails. Yoshi is amazing in this game.
Honestly, nobody should problems against DDD. Just pick Kirby or Metaknight and its autowin.
That tier list is pretty stupid though.

Wolf, Falco and Marth should be no where near the top.
Anyways. Here is my tier list. Based around Kirby. Cause that is about the only way to view a tier list.

Top:
Snake
Metaknight
Game and Watch
Zelda

High:
Kirby
Lucas
Marth
Yoshi
Pikachu
Toon Link
Peach
PT

Mid:
Fox
ZSS
Bowser
Diddy
Lucario
ROB
Sonic
Dedede
ICs
Pit
Mario
Ness

Low:
Olimar
Wolf
Wario
DK
Ganon
Luigi
Sheik

Bottom:
Ike
Falcon
Falco
Samus
Jiggs
Link(Honestly. I dont know who should go lower. Jiggs or Link).

I'm sorry, but until I see reasoning behind this, I see it as a phail. Please explain why Kirby and Yoshi are higher than TL, and why half the characters you put above Sheik are above Sheik. You've raised my curiosity.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

DDD fails. Yoshi is amazing in this game.
Honestly, nobody should problems against DDD. Just pick Kirby or Metaknight and its autowin.

Metaknight counters lots of characters, as does Kirby. I don't have many problems with Dedede because Olimar does well against him too. Against any character he could chainthrow, Dedede's matchups are a lot more in his favor. I wouldn't put him at top, but low is too low.

Who is Yoshi amazing against, besides his few decent matchups?

 

[salaboB]

Who is Yoshi amazing against, besides his few decent matchups?

I'd rather ask who crushes Yoshi, besides his few bad matchups. I'm pretty sure he's not too amazing against anyone but has pretty even fights in most cases -- middle of the field ability. For the tier lists that like to have him low, I really can't justify putting him much below Sonic (If at all), given that when it comes down to actually attacking other characters Sonic doesn't have any significant advantages so if he can beat people well enough to land mid-tier I'm pretty sure Yoshi should have a decent chance as well.

That list looks a bit wonky to me though, I'm not sure I like a lot of the placements of those characters -- Bowser seems a bit high, Lucario low, Peach high, Yoshi high, Zelda high, Olimar low, ICs low, PT high, Luigi very low, etc.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I wouldnt' put Yoshi below Sonic either. Or put Sonic in the mid tier...

 

[salaboB]

I wouldnt' put Yoshi below Sonic either. Or put Sonic in the mid tier...

Fair enough.

I only really have problems with Yoshi's placement when it's way below (Or above, when it comes to it) other characters that I think have similar capabilities as he does.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

tier list
top
snake
MK
falc
G&w
the rest of the tier is up to u guys

 

[Blad01]

The problem is that i feel like there is no possible Low Tier... Link is better than a lot think :s Same for Ganondorf.

Top Tier :

MetaKnight
Game & Watch
Snake ? I didn' play any good snake.
Ice Climbers

High Tier :
(no to so far from Top)

Olimar
Toon Link
Marth
Wolf
Lucas
King Dedede
Pikachu
ROB

Zelda
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Falco


Mid Tier :

Wario
Sheik (?)
Zero Suit Samus
Fox
Mario
Kirby
Jigglypuff
Squirtle
Lucario

Pit (High Mid Tier ?)
Yoshi
Peach
Charizard
Samus
Capt. Falcon
Sonic


Ivysaur (I don't really know)
Ness
Ganondorf
Donkey Kong
Link

Low Tier :

No-one ! SSBB is more balanced than SSBM.
​

What do you think about this list ?

 

[Goten88]

Im from North Carolina and i have been a smash brothers veteran for all 3 games

This is my opinion on the tier list


Top (not in any order)

Toon Link
Wolf
Falco
Olimar
Game and Watch
Pit

Middle Tier

Mario
Luigi
Snake
Marth
Meta Knight
Pikachu
fox
pokemon trainer
zelda/sheik

The rest of the chacters in Super Smash Brothers Brawl are well balanced

please post feedback

 

[BibulousDan]

The problem is that i feel like there is no possible Low Tier... Link is better than a lot think :s Same for Ganondorf.

Top Tier :

MetaKnight
Game & Watch
Snake ? I didn' play any good snake.
Ice Climbers

High Tier :
(no to so far from Top)

Olimar
Toon Link
Marth
Wolf
Lucas
Pikachu
ROB

Zelda
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Falco


Mid Tier :

Wario
Sheik (?)
Zero Suit Samus
Mario
Fox
Kirby
Jigglypuff
Squirtle
Lucario

Pit (High Mid Tier ?)
Peach
Yoshi
Samus
Capt. Falcon
Charizard
Sonic
King Dedede

Ivysaur (I don't really know)
Ness
Ganondorf
Donkey Kong
Link

Low Tier :

No-one ! SSBB is more balanced than SSBM.
​

What do you think about this list ?

Alright, well, first off, I'll agree the game is more balanced than it was in melee.

I don't believe that the Ice climbers are at the top. also I think that DDD should be WAY higher up. There is no way that he is worse than Captain Falcon or Jigs. they both were Nerfed hard up the Wazoo. but as for those minor complaints, I think this list is pretty accurate.

 

[Goten88]

Im just tired of seeing people say low tier....THERE IS NO LOW TIER!!!

THERE IS JUST

TOP
MIDDLE
(BALANCED)

This game is not melee..and its not SSB its SSBB anyone can be good, just depends on how well you play with that character. The Top Tiers and Middle Tiers have an easier learning curve and have good priority over others. They made this game balanced out, unlike melee, there were only three characters that had amazing priority-fox marth and sheik were just broken. In this game really any character you choose is pretty dank to have

 

[Atmapalazzo]

Top Tier :

1) Mr. Game & Watch
2) Meta Knight
3) Snake
4) Ice Climbers
5) King Dedede

High Tier :

6)Diddy Kong
7) Olimar
8) Toon Link
9) Pit
10) Wolf
11) Marth
12) Zelda
13) Falco
14) Lucas
15) Ike

Mid Tier :

16) Pokemon Trainer
17) Wario
18) ROB
19) Pikachu
20) Sheik
21) Zero Suit Samus
22) Fox
23) Mario
24) Kirby
25) Lucario
26) Peach
27) Ganondorf
28) Luigi

Low Tier (which doesn't mean unplayable):

29) Donkey Kong
30) Link
31) Sonic
32) Capt. Falcon
33) Samus
34) Yoshi
35) Jigglypuff
36) Bowser
37) Ness

The lower this tier goes though, the less I think I'm right. (I used Blad01's Tier as a base)

Im just tired of seeing people say low tier....THERE IS NO LOW TIER!!!

THERE IS JUST

TOP
MIDDLE
(BALANCED)

I'd disagree. There are still 4-5 tiers, but the gap between top to bottom is significantly lower

 

[Atmapalazzo]

Wrong buttom made me double post.

 

[Laijin]

I'm sorry, but until I see reasoning behind this, I see it as a phail. Please explain why Kirby and Yoshi are higher than TL, and why half the characters you put above Sheik are above Sheik. You've raised my curiosity.

Because Yoshi and Kirby have better match ups than TL. Its as simple as that.
Kirby's only ridiculously bad match ups are the characters I listed above him. TL does not counter Kirby as some people would believe.

Yoshi has really good match ups too. To answer RA's question, Yoshi is really good against Snake. To the point where it could almost be a counter(He pretty much rocks the **** out of Snake's recovery and moves). That alone should tell you how good Yoshi is.

Yoshi:
Powerful, quick smashes.
Ridiuclously fast and high second jump w/ super armor(Its pretty hard to edge guard a good yoshi in the air because of the super armor).
His grab has range and is quick to retract
Egg throw spam is good
Not too many people play against him. So usually people don't know wtf to do against him.
In the end, Yoshi deserves the spot where I put him. He is really good.

 

[Aminar]

I'm seeing alot of people say that X is X tier because they have Good qualities. FOr instance Sonic is fast, can Gimp, and can combo, therefor he needs to be in mid tier. Fact is that while he can do those things and people can do well with him compared to the characters that are better than him he's stuck in low simply because so many people are better than him. It's not that he's bad. he's solid, the rest of the cast is better.

 

[Blad01]

Alright, well, first off, I'll agree the game is more balanced than it was in melee.

I don't believe that the Ice climbers are at the top. also I think that DDD should be WAY higher up. There is no way that he is worse than Captain Falcon or Jigs. they both were Nerfed hard up the Wazoo. but as for those minor complaints, I think this list is pretty accurate.

At first, thans for the feedback

> DDD : Hum, i don't know why i put him here... oO I moved him in High Tier. But in the High Tier, i'm pretty unsure for this guy, as i didn't play with a really good DDD. But you're right, he doesn't reserve this Middle Tier rank.

> Ice Climbers : Hum, i really think that ICs have a reaaly great potential... Infinite chaingrab, Nana as a shield, Spike... Projectile (wich can laserlock), pretty quick smashes, good range, good jumps and recovery...
But maybe i'm wrong; could you explain your point of view ?

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'm seeing alot of people say that X is X tier because they have Good qualities. FOr instance Sonic is fast, can Gimp, and can combo, therefor he needs to be in mid tier. Fact is that while he can do those things and people can do well with him compared to the characters that are better than him he's stuck in low simply because so many people are better than him. It's not that he's bad. he's solid, the rest of the cast is better.

Which is why he does quite well agaisnt other cast members who can't combo, cant approach, can't gimp and are slow.

Christ for that reason I guess Ike must be bottom tier since he can KO but he can't recover well, combo well or approach well.

Why would sonic be in low tier when he can approach campy characters, combo and gimp?
Yes he has to work for his kills but so does MK.
Only thing that hurts Sonic is his priority.
The fact that people place Ike in middle tier then completelyplace Sonic in low tierfor lack of KO ability shows the utter disregard of mindgames that Sonic is capable of, Sonic should be middle tier. His matchups are better than a good amount of characters in the game.

BRAWL IS NOT BALANCED!
anyone who says so obviouslydid not play competitively otherwise they would know that there is a reater gap when low and high.

 

[VEC]

Top Tier:
MK
GaW
Snake
Wolf
Falco

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Which is why he does quite well agaisnt other cast members who can't combo, cant approach, can't gimp and are slow.

Christ for that reason I guess Ike must be bottom tier since he can KO but he can't recover well, combo well or approach well.

Why would sonic be in low tier when he can approach campy characters, combo and gimp?
Yes he has to work for his kills but so does MK.
Only thing that hurts Sonic is his priority.
The fact that people place Ike in middle tier then completelyplace Sonic in low tierfor lack of KO ability shows the utter disregard of mindgames that Sonic is capable of, Sonic should be middle tier. His matchups are better than a good amount of characters in the game.

BRAWL IS NOT BALANCED!
anyone who says so obviouslydid not play competitively otherwise they would know that there is a reater gap when low and high.

Except... Ike doesn't NEED to combo, and he can approach far better than a good portion of the cast (He's not at the same level as Metaknight or Marth though...). However, I'd only place Ike Mid tier at BEST.

And, I don't know what your tournament scene is like, but the devoted players to the bottom are fairing well. Sonic, Ganon, Captain Falcon, I've been seeing them do well at tournies. Certainly, if a higher tiered character in the hands of a comparable player skill meet, they lose, but the matches are usually close. I compare it to using Mewtwo in Melee really.

Is Brawl balanced? I'm not sure yet. The metagame is far too young to tell yet. If Brawl doesn't have a high % of playable character by March 2009, then I'll be more inclined to believe you.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Except... Ike doesn't NEED to combo, and he can approach far better than a good portion of the cast (He's not at the same level as Metaknight or Marth though...). However, I'd only place Ike Mid tier at BEST.

You are joking right?
Ike's approach game is ****. Plain and simple. hell captain falcon can approach.
Sonic approaches excellently.
Ike? If the person even has a projectile he will have difficulty to approach. He has little to no approach game which is why he has the toughest time dealing with characters like Link, Wolf.
He needs to have combo ability.
How often is he going to land his Fsmash?
his Dsmash doesn't kill very easily espeically with DI being so strong this game.
his aerials are slow he's slow.

He just can't pressure very easily and if you stick him up against a Sonic he would get killed.
He can't recover very well either unless he is above and even then he is quite vulnerable unless you use his eruption which leaves him vulnerable afterwards.

Yeah he sure sounds like middle tier material. wasn't this the reason that Bowser was placed in low tier?

And, I don't know what your tournament scene is like, but the devoted players to the bottom are fairing well. Sonic, Ganon, Captain Falcon, I've been seeing them do well at tournies. Certainly, if a higher tiered character in the hands of a comparable player skill meet, they lose, but the matches are usually close. I compare it to using Mewtwo in Melee really.

Once you mentioned CF and Ganandorf having close matches with higher tier characters I disregarded your statement.
Least SOnic is viable.

Is Brawl balanced? I'm not sure yet. The metagame is far too young to tell yet. If Brawl doesn't have a high % of playable character by March 2009, then I'll be more inclined to believe you. [/COLOR][/SIZE]

No it isn't. Only a handful of characters can actually deal with the defensive game.
Only a few can combo and only a few can approach.
Very few have mindgames and if someone starts camping, if you aren't using someone like Wolf, Sonic, Marth, MK you're basically boned.

 

[Unusual_Rex]

I'm currently working on a tier list I'll have it up soon.

I believe it is fairly accurate.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

DDD fails. Yoshi is amazing in this game.
Honestly, nobody should problems against DDD. Just pick Kirby or Metaknight and its autowin.
That tier list is pretty stupid though.

Wolf, Falco and Marth should be no where near the top.
Anyways. Here is my tier list. Based around Kirby. Cause that is about the only way to view a tier list.

Top:
Snake
Metaknight
Game and Watch
Zelda

High:
Kirby
Lucas
Marth
Yoshi
Pikachu
Toon Link
Peach
PT

Mid:
Fox
ZSS
Bowser
Diddy
Lucario
ROB
Sonic
Dedede
ICs
Pit
Mario
Ness

Low:
Olimar
Wolf
Wario
DK
Ganon
Luigi
Sheik

Bottom:
Ike
Falcon
Falco
Samus
Jiggs
Link(Honestly. I dont know who should go lower. Jiggs or Link).

Holy ****. I can't even explain all the things wrong with this list. -_-