Official BBR Tier List v7

[B0NK]

I believe it is a good idea to include a descriptive approach to the tier list. Regardless in the end, the normative approach will be the largest influence in Tier List v.8, as it has been in every tier list. But looking at what people actually believe the tier list should be is not a bad idea.

If you think the current votes don't reflect your opinion on what the tier list should be, go vote yourself. If you've already voted, good for you! -_^b

So yes, I am putting forth an argument that the Community Tier List is a good idea, since it'll be some statistical representation on what people believe the tier list should be to better support the current normative arguments being presented in the Brawl Back Room. (I do not know what exact discussion is being done in the back room, but I have a pretty good idea what types of arguments are being presented based off of discussion here and past tier list discussions in the back room).

 

[Kewkky]

Because a few votes = all the votes, right SFP? I see you're still an attention-seeking poster, as always.

 

[Dekillsage]

Why do you all think marth is > than snake ;__;7

 

[smashkng]

Because only Ally has done something significant with Snake in major tourneys and he also used secondaries to help. The top Marths have placed well without the need of secondaries.

 

[Dekillsage]

You right -_^b

 

[Luco]

I think the community voting thread has the potential to be either good or bad... but so far I haven't seen one troll post and everyone just seems as though they want to help.

Just me? Maybe. But oh well. We tried, if nothing else.

Just remember that its not like our average tier list will be v8. Ours will just be taken in to consideration and the averaging of it means less outliers and the like IMO.

 

[Illuvial]

Snake has to work incredibly hard to do what Marth can do with much greater ease. Marth is more versatile and while I am a firm believer that Snake's traps make him a better character, no one wants to work harder to get the same result. Especially with how unsafe Snake can be in certain Match-Ups and on certain stages.

 

[pidgezero_one]

i tried to read this thread and gave up john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden john madden

 

[infiniteV115]

Looking at some of the tier lists that people have made, I think that thread might have been a very, very bad idea. lollll

COMMUNITY TIER LIST

SSS: MARTH, MK
A: ICs, KING DEDEDE, PIKACHU
B: FALCO, DIDDY KONG, PEACH
C: WARIO, LINK
D: TOON LINK, MARIO
E: ZERO SUIT SAMUS, LUCARIO
..
..
H: SNAKE

Just so you know, there's a rule to the voting that prevents stuff like this (to some extent...Marth could still be voted first lol) by not allowing people to vote a character 10 (or more) placings above/below their current position on the tier list

 

[Illuvial]

Wait, is the voting live? Where?

 

[infiniteV115]

Wait, is the voting live? Where?

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-bbrs-community-tier-list-voting.335206/

 

[pidgezero_one]

Looking at some of the tier lists that people have made, I think that thread might have been a very, very bad idea. lollll

COMMUNITY TIER LIST

SSS: MARTH, MK
A: NESS, ICs, KING DEDEDE, PIKACHU
B: FALCO, DIDDY KONG, PEACH
C: WARIO, JIGGLYPUFF, LINK
D: TOON LINK, MARIO
E: ZERO SUIT SAMUS, LUCARIO
..
..
H: SNAKE

fix'd

 

[ぱみゅ]

pidge, you forgot Flaoc.

 

[Shadocat]

Also you forgot faclo.............. and flaco ................and lafco ...................... adn afloc................. and coflac...........

 

[infiniteV115]

shaocdat wat r u takn abot

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Because only Ally has done something significant with Snake in major tourneys and he also used secondaries to help. The top Marths have placed well without the need of secondaries.

Snake has to work incredibly hard to do what Marth can do with much greater ease.

Wtf is wrong with you people lmao

 

[B0NK]

Even Snake mains think Snake is bad Gheb, don't be too surprise

 

[Tesh]

Last time a top level Snake main attended a national he got...7th/400 when the best Marths were tied for 17th. I guess you could move Snake down for top mains of the character quitting.

 

[Kewkky]

I'm personally enjoying watching people's lists. Sucks seeing Kirby go down a LOT in some people's lists, but it also really makes me happy seeing ZSS get the recognition she deserves. She's fun to play, fun to watch, and a good character to boot; watching Salem vs M2K at Apex GFs got my blood pumping like crazy and made me want to play NOW. I still remember the good old days when Kirby was #13 in the tier list and ZSS was below #17. Good times, good times...

 

[Luco]

I'm personally enjoying watching people's lists. Sucks seeing Kirby go down a LOT in some people's lists, but it also really makes me happy seeing ZSS get the recognition she deserves. She's fun to play, fun to watch, and a good character to boot; watching Salem vs M2K at Apex GFs got my blood pumping like crazy and made me want to play NOW. I still remember the good old days when Kirby was #13 in the tier list and ZSS was below #17. Good times, good times...

I'm really enjoying it too, actually. ICs, ZSS and the PSI kids are all on my 'oh look at that' list, and I notice ZSS and ICs often go up and Lucas/Ness almost always go up, sometimes by ultra super insane crazy amounts.

I love it so much!! <3

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Because a few votes = all the votes, right SFP? I see you're still an attention-seeking poster, as always.

Interesting, it's almost as though you are trying to start an argument with me based on bad satire. Who's seeking attention? I'm not worth it, dude, and I'd win anyway.

I'm personally enjoying watching people's lists. Sucks seeing Kirby go down a LOT in some people's lists, but it also really makes me happy seeing ZSS get the recognition she deserves. She's fun to play, fun to watch, and a good character to boot; watching Salem vs M2K at Apex GFs got my blood pumping like crazy and made me want to play NOW. I still remember the good old days when Kirby was #13 in the tier list and ZSS was below #17. Good times, good times...

I dunno, over half the posters in that thread (last time I checked) had ZSS where she is now, and many of them dropped her lower, lol. And one or two had her below Dedede.

If you have ZSS below Marth or Dedede, you're not paying attention. If you have ZSS below 7th or 8th, you need to re-evaluate your position. All I'm sayin'. The only characters that should be above ZSS are MK, ICs, Olimar, Diddy, Snake, and Falco, and one or two of those are debatable.

I see a lot of SWF's established posters moving ZSS up pretty high (Gheb, V, etc.), and it's cool to see it finally happening for sure.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Also you forgot faclo.............. and flaco ................and lafco ...................... adn afloc................. and coflac...........

Flaoc thread?

Flaoc thread.

(Actually though why is Kirby dropping so much in that thread? Did we all just suddenly forget about how he goes even with like the entire case, or is it just no one plays him anymore? I know I sure don't.)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Kirby doesn't go even with the entire cast, IMO he loses at least slightly to almost everyone :/

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Flaoc thread?

Damn, I miss that hat

 

[pidgezero_one]

Damn, I miss that hat

You shouldn't have eaten it then. Bad Shiny Mewtwo.

 

[infiniteV115]

If you have ZSS below Marth or Dedede, you're not paying attention. If you have ZSS below 7th or 8th, you need to re-evaluate your position.

I see a lot of SWF's established posters moving ZSS up pretty high (Gheb, V, etc.), and it's cool to see it finally happening for sure.

I put her at 9th and Marth at 4th (mooning)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

InfiniteWRONG115

 

[infiniteV115]

Kiss My Ass From Paris

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

You shouldn't have eaten it then. Bad Shiny Mewtwo.

I didn't eat it!

I left it at a badminton tournament

 

[Luco]

I can't remember but... I think I had ZSS just above... pika?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Snake has to work incredibly hard to do what Marth can do with much greater ease. Marth is more versatile and while I am a firm believer that Snake's traps make him a better character, no one wants to work harder to get the same result. Especially with how unsafe Snake can be in certain Match-Ups and on certain stages.

Working harder does does not mean weaker. In melee Fox and Falco are much harder to use then Sheik. Yet they are both better then Sheik. you can't think like that to state who is better. It's about their over all character stats and options. Not difficulty of use. Thats not how you judge a character. You are completely ignoring all that they can do.

Now if I was to go on about who is better between them, I would break them down. And as usual, not soly go on results. Results are usually based on player skill more then character stats. or else the results for many things would remain the same. Which they don't.

Marth:
- Better and solid air game.
- Harder to deal with on block
- Better at poking shield
- Better juggler
- Faster
- Better edgeguarder
- Counter option OoS
- Better wall mid range
- Better ledge options
- More options to punish evasions under pressure.



Snake:
- Better ground game.
- Better stage control.
- Better ways to recover
- Can cover both air and ground options at once.
- Can kill earlier
- Lives longer
- a grab can equal a stock.
- a grab can lead to alot of damage.
- Rack up damage at a distance
- Blind spot won't usually cost him his stock as soon.
- harder to approach
- Force an approach

There might be more from these 2 but I can't think of any as of right now. Snake/Marth players can add to this or correct me on my list here. As for thier match ups. I don't know how they work. So I can't really say who is better cause of that. It's best i know how their tools help against the most used characters for me to have a final opinion. Guess I'll have to do my homework on that.

But for the character break down I have here, it seems snake would give people more problems. Him controlling the stage helps alot and people can not get on him so easily. He can force people to jump or stay grounded. And more ways to finish the enemy.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Now if I was to go on about who is better between them, I would break them down. And as usual, not solely go on results.

Fixed

Other than that silly error that was a really good post Dark.Pch

 

[Shadocat]

Kirby doesn't go even with the entire cast, IMO he loses at least slightly to almost everyone :/

as a kirby main, it almost feels that way.

call me crazy, but i believe he beats falco.

 

[-LzR-]

What can Kirby do to Falco? He is slow as **** and Falco destroys him in close combat. I can see bair being useful and copying lasers, but anything actually awesome so he doesn't lose badly?

 

[Shadocat]

chaingrabs? but then again he can do that to kirby too.

that lazers is main reason why i think kirby sorta wins.

im just speaking from personal match-up experience.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

MU chart says it's even

My personal experience says that it fluctuates between Falco's advantage and Kirby's advantage depending on the circumstances (stage, percent, etc)

 

[Cassio]

If you have ZSS below Marth or Dedede, you're not paying attention. If you have ZSS below 7th or 8th, you need to re-evaluate your position. All I'm sayin'. The only characters that should be above ZSS are MK, ICs, Olimar, Diddy, Snake, and Falco, and one or two of those are debatable.

Really depends on how much you weight Apex. Actually I think its really only valid if you use Apex as the sole determining factor for ZSS, otherwise taken as a whole ZSS has been just as inconsistent if not moreso than Marth.

 

[infiniteV115]

Salem beat ZeRo and M2K after Apex btw (oh and ADHD finally)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

ZSS has been just as inconsistent if not moreso than Marth.

Salem, quik, NR, V and Kamemushi all have very consistent placings in their region and their occasional high placings at [inter]nationals are better and more frequent than those of Marth players.

 

[Cassio]

Spoiler

Apex 2012

33. Salem

33. DRN
49. NickRiddle


17. mikeHAZE
17. Mr. R
25. Zex
33. Leon

SKTAR

17: Salem
33: DRN


9: Mr. R
13: Leon
17: Mike Haze
33: Minty Flesh
49: Shaya
49: Mr. Eric
49: Pierce7d

Apex 2013

1: Salem ($3,285.00)
25: Nick Riddle
49: QuikSilver
97: V115


5: Mikeneko
7: Mr. R
25: Leon
33: Mike Haze
65: NEO
65: Zex

Only to demonstrate that nothing really screams out consistent here except perhaps Mr. R (excluding Mikeneko since its one event, though hed probably do well again).