Official BBR Tier List v7

[Supermodel From Paris]

How does the kprime thing work again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4pHZUJGG0k

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11847996&postcount=6810

 

[Dark.Pch]

I read a few thing in this thread dealing with Peach and wanna bring something here for those that care. For those that don't, just move on on this and my other post.

I have a video here where I seriously explain Peach in 4 sections. From whats good about her to whats bad about her and reasons for it all. So for those that have questions or just seriously curious on what she is about, then check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op0pniWDi6g&feature=plcp

check out the other parts for the full run down.

Also on her defense options/flaws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1tXVpHPikc&feature=relmfu

 

[Seagull Joe]

McPeePants beat Esam's and with . Told people those matchups weren't bad.

vs is even. vs is -2.

It's sad to say, but is looking HT every day...Ugh.

 

[DMG]

What if Esam plays him again and wins with both characters, solidly?

 

[Player-1]

well he beat mc pe in winners with both characters

 

[DMG]

Well then I guess Wolf neutrally blows then

 

[da K.I.D.]

this is another example of that whole tkd syndrome.

mc peepants won the last round of the tournament with MK on rainbow cruise, and somehow its supposed to make me believe that wolf is a better character? FOH

 

[DMG]

FOW went on a rampage with Ness, M2K was the only one who could stop him. Even MU

 

[Seagull Joe]

this is another example of that whole tkd syndrome.

mc peepants won the last round of the tournament with MK on rainbow cruise, and somehow its supposed to make me believe that wolf is a better character? FOH

He won 2 matches with and then lost the next 2. He cp'd Rc game 5 and then Esam went . Why wouldn't he gay it out with to secure the win on a stage is amazing on compared to camping it out on any other stage and worry about a cg?

 

[da K.I.D.]

espy and x both beat tyrant with sonic on multiple occasions. even matchup.

@ seagull.
I have ZERO problems with him scumming out a win with the ******** MK+RC combo. its hilarious to me. if its an option to win use it. My issue comes in when you come in here, and tout that around like its a win for wolf and its a viable reasoning for seeing wolf as a better character, when its not.

 

[Seagull Joe]

espy and x both beat tyrant with sonic on multiple occasions. even matchup.

@ seagull.
I have ZERO problems with him scumming out a win with the ******** MK+RC combo. its hilarious to me. if its an option to win use it. My issue comes in when you come in here, and tout that around like its a win for wolf and its a viable reasoning for seeing wolf as a better character, when its not.

I don't want higher on the tier list. Why would I want to lose the ability to use my main in Mid Tiers? I said "Ugh, looks HT" because results indicate he is. I don't think he is (Unless you already consider HT since 's results and matchups are better then ).

I have said for a LONG time vs is -2 and that vs was either even or -1.

 

[Player-1]

pretty sure mc pe and esam both agreed pika +2ed wolf and ICs +1ed him

 

[Seagull Joe]

pretty sure mc pe and esam both agreed pika +2ed wolf and ICs +1ed him

 

[Ishiey]

@ Drk.Pch, I saw some of your video guides a while ago. Good stuff.

@ MCP stuff, MCP for president. No idea why he went RC last game though, unless switching to MK was his plan from the start. Would've been interesting to see Wolf/Pika there, really looking forward to watching the matches when they're uploaded

Glad ESAM finally agrees to +/-2, took him long enough

Agreed with Seagull on ICs, +/-1 or even. It's a close call, and as with every ICs MU depends on the stagelist.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Thanks, though it has not gotten much attention, and I try to post it everywhere. Cause people don't as much as I thought they would. Idk if I should stop making they brawl series videos or not.

 

[DeLux]

False, Wolf vs. Ics is +3 Wolf's favor

 

[Luco]

FOW went on a rampage with Ness, M2K was the only one who could stop him. Even MU

Isn't he meant to be one of the top 10 chars to use against MK? I think Ness mains have been arguing for a -1 MK's favour. Erm, would want some Ness mains in here to actually confirm that before I say it, though.

 

[Chuee]

Isn't he meant to be one of the top 10 chars to use against MK? I think Ness mains have been arguing for a -1 MK's favour. Erm, would want some Ness mains in here to actually confirm that before I say it, though.

No, I don't remember any of them saying it was -1.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

We had a massive discussion about it not too long ago (could've been in the MU thread?) and most people agree it is -2

Top ten vs. MK (in no order):
Meta Knight
Snake
Falco
Diddy Kong
Ice Climbers
Fox
Marth
Pikachu
Wolf/G&W/Wario/ZSS/Sheik/Ness
Wolf/G&W/Wario/ZSS/Sheik/Ness

Depends who you ask, I'd personally say Wolf and G&W, buuuuutttt, yeah

 

[Luco]

No, I don't remember any of them saying it was -1.

I checked the MU thread, some were saying -2, others were saying -1.

Though I think most were saying -2, looking back at it.

 

[Ishiey]

Dark.Pch, the problem is that this late in the metagame so few people are still trying to pick up characters and push their boundaries. So while your videos are great, there isn't much of a target audience left :/

DeLux, thank you for helping us inflate our MU spread

 

[Luco]

Dark.Pch, the problem is that this late in the metagame so few people are still trying to pick up characters and push their boundaries. So while your videos are great, there isn't much of a target audience left :/

DeLux, thank you for helping us inflate our MU spread

Well it's still being done and if nothing else guides are always useful. :-)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

There are so many things I want to see mid and low tiers doooo

 

[Luco]

There are so many things I want to see mid and low tiers doooo

Zap ju- no, already done. Jab Lo-nope that's been done as well. Chain gr-nooooope, Oh DK...

Sorry that's part trolling.

What do you mean?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't even know what I mean.

It just feels like, when I look at top players using top tiers, they still make so many mistakes that a mid/low tier main could capitalize upon (if they were unfathomably skilled).

I want to see that happen. I want Brawl to have an Isai like 64 does.

 

[Baskerville]

Too bad nobody plays most Mid Tiers. Some of them have potential I believe.

 

[Ishiey]

It just feels like, when I look at top players using top tiers, they still make so many mistakes that a mid/low tier main could capitalize upon (if they were unfathomably skilled).

I want to see that happen. I want Brawl to have an Isai like 64 does.

I share this sentiment. There's a lot of potential lying in some of mid-tier that's just waiting for a player of the right caliber to do work.

 

[Luco]

I don't even know what I mean.

It just feels like, when I look at top players using top tiers, they still make so many mistakes that a mid/low tier main could capitalize upon (if they were unfathomably skilled).

I want to see that happen. I want Brawl to have an Isai like 64 does.

Shaky at whobo went nuts. Sktar saw Mekos at ninth. Mcpee was also great at whobo, Trela (well this is high tier but still) has done amazingly for lucario... People are still getting results. Not always but sometimes.

 

[GOofyGV]

Don't forget Ryo who got 5th there? or was it 7th?
and san we got top 10 at Apex 2010 or 2009?
There is Will who does some mad work at turneys.
Almost all mid tiers have at least 1 player that kicks but with the character.

 

[infiniteV115]

Which tournament(s) are you guys talking about? McPe beating ESAM? FOW going on a rampage?
I was at a tournament yesterday myself so I have no idea wagwan

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Honest question: why has the K prime buffered mashing not hurt ICs tournament viability? Is it because no one does it and only because no one does it?

Instead of asking why no one does it, I'm going to ask a different question: what would happen if was abused? Wouldn't the threat of ICs grabbing you be diminished significantly? Or would we just go back to calling ICs players bad because they weren't perfectly buffering their grab 100% of the time?

This seems rhetorical but I'm genuinely curious. ICs get a lot of grabs when Nana has to catch up before the CG can start, shutting even those down would be a really big deal IMO.

Plus any character with really fast options after grab break (Peach, ZSS, Squirtle? can actually jab before shield comes out and her full jab combo works on ICs) would actually make grabs a risk

 

[Tesh]

Peach has a frame 2 jab doesn't she? And ZSS , Squirtle don't really have properly functioning jabs.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Both ZSS and Squirtle can hit their full jabs on ICs

 

[C.J.]

V115- some local yesterday Mcpe beat Esam. FOW went on a rampage about a year ago when he was bodying everyone, including taking games from m2k at a Vegas tourney.

SFP- your last paragraph isn't right. The grab releaser has 29 frames of lag while the released has 30. There's no way ZSS/Squirtle can jab before shield comes out.
I'm assuming you're talking about breaking out of IC grab at least.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

What?

Jab is out on frame 1. Wouldn't it hit ON frame 30, BEFORE they could shield?

 

[Player-1]

i just have to has my taunts :3

 

[C.J.]

Squirtle breaks out from grab. IC has 29 frames of lag, holds shield, Shields frame 30. Squirtle has30 frames of lag, buffers jab, comes out frame 31

it works if Squirtle grabs another character and releases them. My source being reflex vids/personal testing.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

That isn't how it works. ZSS' grab release animation is 29. If she buffers her jab it comes out on 30, while a person with 30 frames of lag shields on 31.

There's 1 frame difference and the jab is 1 frame, how does it not connect?

 

[Tesh]

Both ZSS and Squirtle can hit their full jabs on ICs

without DI maybe, but both jabs are easily bad enough that you can shield then with a bit of DI.

V115- some local yesterday Mcpe beat Esam. FOW went on a rampage about a year ago when he was bodying everyone, including taking games from m2k at a Vegas tourney.

SFP- your last paragraph isn't right. The grab releaser has 29 frames of lag while the released has 30. There's no way ZSS/Squirtle can jab before shield comes out.
I'm assuming you're talking about breaking out of IC grab at least.

What?

Jab is out on frame 1. Wouldn't it hit ON frame 30, BEFORE they could shield?

I was under the impression that the person being released cannot buffer, while the person releasing CAN buffer. Meaning Squirtle/ZSS can jab people before they can shield if they were the one who releasing the opponent.

 

[C.J.]

I was under the impression that the one breaking out of the grab is30 frames and the one who grabbed was 29. It's why you see reflex do grab, pummel jab guaranteed.