Official BBR Tier List v7

[Claire Diviner]

I'd say Koopa Troopa, but somehow the MU would be at least +1 Koopa is he were a playable character.

Joking aside, I know Lucas and Ganon have trouble with him; Ganon because he's Ganon, and Lucas because of the grab release, or so I recall.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Like, i feel like even ganon has an even matchup with Bowser.

Who legitimately flat out loses to this character? Only one i can think of is puff. Because of the massive weight disparity and grab release to up air kills at 60.

 

[Lukingordex]

I'd say Koopa Troopa, but somehow the MU would be at least +1 Koopa is he were a playable character.

Joking aside, I know Lucas and Ganon have trouble with him; Ganon because he's Ganon, and Lucas because of the grab release, or so I recall.

Lucas vs Bowser is even.

Lucas has trouble because of the grab release,but you need years to grab a good Lucas.

Bowser is the hardest MU for Lucas in Low Tiers,any other MU in LT is +1 or +2 for Lucas.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Like, i feel like even ganon has an even matchup with Bowser.

I'd say it's around 55:45 in Bowser's favor, which still isn't that bad for Ganon.

Lucas vs Bowser is even.

Lucas has trouble because of the grab release,but you need years to grab a good Lucas.

I was pretty sure it was around 55:45, but in hindsight, Lucas can just zone and space, I guess. Then again, I really don't know the MU to judge for myself.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Mario loses to Bowser.

 

[Player-1]

Holy **** luigi player is just like jebus, except he actually uses logic to reach dumb conclusions

Bowser vs yoshi is -7 yoshis favor. Bowser has nothing in the MU

 

[Z'zgashi]

Bowser solidly beats Puff and Lucas is solidly a bit in our favor. Ganon is pretty even, but Bowser has a bit of an advantage over him with klaw, mobility, and our jab. And @Gheb, Mario v Bowser is pretty even imo, but I could see it being our advantage. Still think its even though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah, I agree this Luigi player guy seems to be pretty stupid. I bet this kid never been to a tourney or even played Bowser.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Im not saying hes stupid. But his opinion on Bowser does make him LOOK stupid

 

[-LzR-]

Puff loses to Bowser. That grabrelease and unable to kill him outside of gimps makes thing kinda hard.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Yeah, I agree this Luigi player guy seems to be pretty stupid.

Luigi Player isn't stupid; he comes across as someone who tries hard to prove he isn't wrong, even if he is. I mean, who likes being wrong?

I bet this kid never been to a tourney or even played Bowser.

He's been to tourneys before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXYQ7_FA7y0

Don't know about his Bowser experience though.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I wouldn't say he's stupid...
We all lack some knowledge on certain MU's.
...but most of us just don't say anything if we know we don't fully understand something.

 

[Espy Rose]

And that's called being smart, Sunny.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Ok, I've used in every LT tourney I've entered and mained him in 08-09. I think I know a little bit about his matchups. Let's give it a try... (His matchups haven't changed since I dropped him in 09).

If I recall correctly,Bowser has a -4 against D3 and MK and a couple of -3 MUs,not sure.

is only -4 with and . He is -3 with .

Bowser vs Yoshi isn't worse than -1.

It's very very bad LP. can't approach. If he moves forward and jumps then he gets egg'd. If he moves grounded then he gets pivot grabbed. It's really really hard. And can Cg>Spike every stock...

Bowser as -3 vs Diddy and Falco sounds really, really hard to believe and I'm not quite sure about Olimar either. I can see those match-ups as -2 easily and Falco might be even only -1.

vs is only -2. It's pretty hard to kill and klawing actually makes it easier to move around nanerz. It's hard to klaw hop and trip over a naner.

vs is actually -2, maybe even -1. The weird thing about this matchup is that no matter the damage takes, he never really dies. 's side b's can actually be easily up b'd (Even the weak hit will knock out). Approaching isn't as hard as it seems. The cg is annoying, but that goes for everyone who plays. I'd recommend looking at vids of Limit vs Zen. Old, but it's how the matchup is generally played out.

vs is borderline -3. It's very close to -4. He's so small to hit and get's pivot grabbed for almost everything he does.

Lucas vs Bowser is even.

Lucas has trouble because of the grab release,but you need years to grab a good Lucas.

Bowser is the hardest MU for Lucas in Low Tiers,any other MU in LT is +1 or +2 for Lucas.

It's -1 . Grab release would be an issue if could reliably grab ... is very mobile.

I think Mario loses to Bowser.

I think the matchup is even. 's inability to deal with fireballs well, having a bad shield, no spotdodge/roll options, and a capable recovery make the matchup even. When approaches he gets Up b'd or Fair'd through, but if lands a move then it usually strings to a bunch of other ones. just lives awhile and does more damage output singly, while does it in strings.

Yeah, I agree this Luigi player guy seems to be pretty stupid. I bet this kid never been to a tourney or even played Bowser.

What a n00b .

Luigi Player isn't stupid; he comes across as someone who tries hard to prove he isn't wrong, even if he is. I mean, who likes being wrong?

He's been to tourneys before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXYQ7_FA7y0

Don't know about his Bowser experience though.

I can't tell if you're actually seriously taking his troll bait or not. LP is top 3 in Europe LMAO.

Do I think is better then ? Yes I do. I think is better then all the other LT's except for . >>/ (These two are tied really)>The rest.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I can't tell if you're actually seriously taking his troll bait or not. LP is top 3 in Europe LMAO.

Yeah, I suppose I'm an easy target.

 

[Flayl]

I wouldn't say he's stupid...
We all lack some knowledge on certain MU's.
...but most of us just don't say anything if we know we don't fully understand something.

And that's called being smart, Sunny.

Wait, are you guys saying you've played the Bowser VS Yoshi matchup?

 

[infiniteV115]

Saying LP is top 3 in Europe is a pretty bold claim.

 

[Espy Rose]

Wait, are you guys saying you've played the Bowser VS Yoshi matchup?

Yes, I have.

 

[Luigi player]

I played as Bowser vs a good Yoshi but he doesn't cg and can't DI.

You can't just say if Bowser jumps you get egg'd and if you don't you get grabbed... that only works if the Yoshi is a furtune teller or something. Bowser can dodge through eggs and what can Yoshi do if Bowser is near enough then? Shieldgrab? It'll be rock paper scissors game. Bowser could also use his fire breath to approach if you really think egg and (pivot-)grab > everything Bowser can do. Fire breath breaks eggs and should beat the grab. It's not really safe though obviously lol.

Also pretty sure Bowser can upB through Yoshis grab too. Not that it'll happen reliably but whatever.

If you show me every good Bowser getting ***** by Yoshis then you can convince me but otherwise nope. I mean maybe it's possible it's a -2 but -1 seems more likely to me. Never could anyone convince me it's -3 though.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Yes, actually.

I can give a run down of how it plays out. By all means, its completely hopeless on the bowser players side if the yoshi just lames it out hard enough.

I'll give you the few keypoint things you need to know that make it terrible.

+Yoshi can choke chaingrab bowser to the end of the stage
+Grab releasing bowser over the ledge COMBO's into yoshi's f-air spike. Theres nothing bowser can do about it.

+Its insanely hard for bowser to try and zone yoshi, if yoshi just sticks to a lame up-b and grab game.

Yoshi' ultimatly out zones bowser, yoshi's more maneuverable, yoshi gets a free kill off of grab, bowser has no safe way of approaching.

 

[Z'zgashi]

vs is only -2. It's pretty hard to kill and klawing actually makes it easier to move around nanerz. It's hard to klaw hop and trip over a naner.

Bowser needs to stay on the ground in this MU cuz he gets stuffed in the air, and on the ground... Diddy has naners lol. On paper, its looks much better than it actually is, but once you try it for real, you start to notice that Diddy is stupidly hard to get in on, Diddy applies pressure like mad, Diddy's naners are the worst, klaw hopping isnt as abusable as you'd think, etc. Its a -3 imo.

vs is borderline -3. It's very close to -4. He's so small to hit and get's pivot grabbed for almost everything he does.

lol what, its like, -1/-2

It's -1 . Grab release would be an issue if could reliably grab ... is very mobile.

Its def a bit Bowser's adv. Up B OoS stuffs a lot of Lucas' options, Lucas cant pressure Bowser very well, and when we do get a grab, its a dead Lucas.

I can't tell if you're actually seriously taking his troll bait or not. LP is top 3 in Europe LMAO.

^ LP isnt stupid and hes actually really good, hes just wrong atm

Do I think is better then ? Yes I do. I think is better then all the other LT's except for . >>/ (These two are tied really)>The rest.

Mario > Bowser > Link imo

 

[Flayl]

Uhh, nothing is guaranteed out of Yoshi's grab release offstage on Bowser. That's something I have like 2 years of experience on haha

Yoshi's chaingrab deals like 6% (8% from the other edge of FD) if he grab releases offstage, slightly more if he throws instead, Yoshi's throws are really bad. It's a real hassle for Bowser's positioning but damage-wise it's pretty poor.

 

[Player-1]

Seagull is right on everything except diddy +3's bowser




Edit and Mario>bowser easily

 

[Mr-R]

Link>mario/bowser/zelda/falcon/jiggs/samus though

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yeah, theres no fair spike, its just CG to the ledge and Fthrow, then pelt Bowser with eggs as he tries to recover, and try and gimp him if you can, then when he DOES get back, resort to throwing more eggs, walling with pivot grabs, egg lays, jabs, etc.

EDIT: Lucas > Samus > Mario > Bowser > Link > Falcon/Jiggs > Zelda/Ganon imo

 

[Jimmyfosho]

If you show me every good Bowser getting ***** by Yoshis then you can convince me but otherwise nope. I mean maybe it's possible it's a -2 but -1 seems more likely to me. Never could anyone convince me it's -3 though.

not that I give a **** about the MU between Yoshi vs Bowser, I was just curious on if there were some recent vids of the MU between 2 respected character mains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaDEsyaN2YA#t=1m50s

Might want to mute the vid due to ****ty commentary.

 

[Flayl]

Man Bowser will never live that match down will he, it's already been brought up haha. Wish I could've given Kingkong pointers, so many things he did wrong.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Bowser needs to stay on the ground in this MU cuz he gets stuffed in the air, and on the ground... Diddy has naners lol. On paper, its looks much better than it actually is, but once you try it for real, you start to notice that Diddy is stupidly hard to get in on, Diddy applies pressure like mad, Diddy's naners are the worst, klaw hopping isnt as abusable as you'd think, etc. Its a -3 imo.

It's doable. Much easier then others.

Its def a bit Bowser's adv. Up B OoS stuffs a lot of Lucas' options, Lucas cant pressure Bowser very well, and when we do get a grab, its a dead Lucas.

doesn't need to pressure hard. He runs down his options. Pk fire isn't normally a good tool to constantly use, but sucks at getting through it. Also moves tend to combo the **** outta .

I could agree at this for even if someone could actually show me a ever beating a .

lol what, its like, -1/-2

Credibility for you outta here..

 

[Luigi player]

Saying LP is top 3 in Europe is a pretty bold claim.

It's very difficult to say the exact ranking because there's still many missing MUs here.

The only one that's pretty safe to say (for now ) is #1 and that's ... well, guess.

The rest of the tops are Leon, Glutonny, quiK, cyve, me, aaand Orion if he doesn't choke and maybe Deimos but he never went OOC or something so dunno how good he really is.

not that I give a **** about the MU between Yoshi vs Bowser, I was just curious on if there were some recent vids of the MU between 2 respected character mains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaDEsyaN2YA#t=1m50s

Might want to mute the vid due to ****ty commentary.

I already watched that.

 

[Mr-R]

Lmao @ orion if he doesn't choke, too bad the guy chokes 99 % of the time

 

[infiniteV115]

Ramin, after watching Quik I have trouble believing that Link>Samus

Show me some vids of your Link pls

 

[da K.I.D.]

Im still failing to see the difference between ddd vs bowser and yoshi vs bowser.

they both pretty much grab bowser for anything, except yoshi trades a straight up auto kill off the first grab for stage control off the grab, WAYY more mobility (making it harder for bowser to catch him) and a really good camping tool (which makes it harder for bowser to get in)

if ddd is a +4, then yoshi sounds like a +3 based purely on that.

 

[infiniteV115]

What happens if Bowser uses his nB (dunno what it's called...Bowser Breath?) on Yoshi's shield? Can Yoshi just roll out of it?

Or is his best option to drop shield and then SDI out? XD

 

[Atomsk_92]

And atomsk called me an idioti :/ at least i have the sense not to main D3 in todays meta game .

A Mario main is trying to explain to me why my character is bad in the current Meta?

 

[Juushichi]

Lol. 10/10.

Mario sucks. Samus is kinda fun, but god is she awful.

 

[Espy Rose]

Well, Dedede sucks, and Mario sucks.
So I mean, Mario sucks harder, but it doesn't really matter. You're useless if you suck.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Winning vs Snake, Marth, and Wario =/= sucks.

 

[infiniteV115]

I guess that means he doesn't win against them because he clearly sucks.

 

[Juushichi]

But doesn't only one of those characters do anything particularly significant in tournaments, Atomsk_92?

 

[Atomsk_92]

I don't know what to say if you think 2 of those 3 characters don't do a lot in tournament.