Official BBR Tier List v5

[~ Gheb ~]

But have any of those characters run into a Sonic of Espy or X's caliber? I would guess not.

A player of that caliber would probably not play Sonic to begin with. Japan is really, really competitive, most of their players immediately exclude everything that doesn't maximize their own chance of winning. Picking up Sonic is one of these things in their eyes.

 

[Chuee]

A player of that caliber would probably not play Sonic to begin with. Japan is really, really competitive, most of their players immediately exclude everything that doesn't maximize their own chance of winning. Picking up Sonic is one of these things in their eyes.

Yeah, I remember Suinoko saying that he originally played Peach but dropped her for Diddy once he found out that she wasn't that good.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think one thing that needs to be put out there is that Japan don't play for the same reasons like america. America will go out there way no matter what to get money. Thus play gay as ****. And alot of what the USA focus on.

Japan don't play for money nor give a damm about it. When they use characters, they focus on all the stuff they can do. And then play around with the tools. Be creative with it. Things that the USA has never done.

USA just goes for the gay and focus so much on that. Instead of also working up on other **** that could help them keep their wins more solid.

 

[fkacyan]

What the hell is this "us" crap.

Once again this isn't smash USA forums. There are people from all over the world that post on this website, and are even in the BBR and contribute to the current tier list.

Yes USA is a majority of the posters here. In fact I agree that overall because of that we probably shouldn't over analyze or compare other metagames to much in extremes unless we have solid ways to- However putting "us" on a pedestal and simply ignoring all of the other facts/results/players/communitys/ect that are ON this site, or simply have results and videos to show us is ********.

It's still disconcertin to see you making non troll posts.

 

[Matador]

The tier is actually called the BBR tier list, not the the American tier list. Even though this site is mostly North American players, there are still some Japanese and European players in the BBR and on this site.

If Masashi were to suggest to the BBR that Pit should be higher because he places well at X and Y tournaments with consistency, do you personally believe that what he says should influence the next tier list?

Despite the fact that his results are not coming from the metagame that the majority of us are playing under? Despite the fact that he's already influencing Japan's tier list?

 

[Chuee]

I think one thing that needs to be put out there is that Japan don't play for the same reasons like america. America will go out there way no matter what to get money. Thus play gay as ****. And alot of what the USA focus on.

Japan don't play for money nor give a damm about it. When they use characters, they focus on all the stuff they can do. And then play around with the tools. Be creative with it. Things that the USA has never done.

USA just goes for the gay and focus so much on that. Instead of also working up on other **** that could help them keep their wins more solid.

You have no idea wth you're talking about lmao.
Japan plays JUST as gay as we do.
Their timer is set to 10 min.
Hell, I've seen a 9 minute match in Japan where Masashi literally planked the entire match.
EDIT: Well, Japan isn't, they have their own seperate site, but most other regions around the world use SWF.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Despite the fact that he's already influencing Japan's tier list?

Is that a reason to disregard it as potentially viable material for "our" tier list? Do we not try to have an "ideal" one? How big is the difference really? Are the two more minutes and the stricter time-out rule they have really so big a change to us that we can't possibly take the outcome of their matches at face value?

Masashi is at this point the only player in Japan who has an even set record against 9B's ICs, using Pit only in all sets he won. Are we supposed to ignore that now only because they have 2 more minutes on their timer? We're talking about the best possible representation of a match-up here, mind you. Pit vs IC can't get any more "competitive" than that. I'd say it'd be pretty stupid to treat that as null when it's evident that they always try their hardest to win [unlike american players, where you will often hear arguments about sand bagging].

 

[Matador]

Either way, sharing SWF doesn't mean sharing metagames.

Mexico, America, Austrailia and Europe rarely play each other in tourney...

Like wtf. Do you guys really believe separate metagames should be included in the tier list or are you just trying to be right for the sake of being right?

 

[san.]

@Gheb

Sonic is a bad character and Pit isn't (relatively speaking) because Japan says so?


Double standards..

And Sonic's representation in the U.S. seems to be much more influential than Pit's in Japan.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Like wtf. Do you guys really believe separate metagames should be included in the tier list or are you just trying to be right for the sake of being right?

If the entitlement of this tier list is to represent the world's metagame as a whole - hence Smash World Forum - then all metagames should be included. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing.

Edit @ San

I have intentionally left out my own opinion on this matter. I'm offering the point of view of a different scene, which may or may not match my own opinion.

 

[Matador]

If the entitlement of this tier list is to represent the world's metagame as a whole - hence Smash World Forum - then all metagames should be included. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing.

This is where I'd have to simply disagree with you.

I don't want a tier list where some characters are ONLY where they are because some player in Istanbul places well under a completely different set of conditions.

There's much more difference than a 10 minute timer. There's players, GOOD character mains (or lack thereof in some places), stagelists, mindsets...

Do they even plank in Japan?

 

[Chuee]

Matador you missed my post

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Do they even plank in Japan?

Harder than you guys do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxMC9ljbVp0

 

[etecoon]

nah they don't plank in japan at all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_Jil1CBNs

oops

 

[Matador]

Matador you missed my post

What did you say that hasn't been addressed in my posts already?

Edit @ Etecoon and Gheb: I'm not watching those, lol. I'll take your word for it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Peach players (yourself included) are actually some of the most exceptionally talented players in the community, and there are a lot of you. Watching King Beef or Leon or Meno or you or Illmatic or Kyon play Peach is like... wow, so amazing considering that Peach takes unusually high mental and physical endurance to play. But they all switch to Marth. :D

Peach mains don't suck. Myth needs bustin'.

How come praxis isn't here already?

I think one thing that needs to be put out there is that Japan don't play for the same reasons like america. America will go out there way no matter what to get money. Thus play gay as ****. And alot of what the USA focus on.

Japan don't play for money nor give a damm about it. When they use characters, they focus on all the stuff they can do. And then play around with the tools. Be creative with it. Things that the USA has never done.

USA just goes for the gay and focus so much on that. Instead of also working up on other **** that could help them keep their wins more solid.

Srry Dark, this is incorrect, it's actually the opposite.

The japanese metagame has two key differences from ours.

1. An emphasis on absolute safety.

2. Extreme technical consistency.


As such their metagame is gayer then ours, not less gay.

 

[Justblaze647]

Homosexuality is in the eye of the beholder

Edit: lol that was my first post in over three months

 

[DMG]

Homosexuality is in the eye of the beholder

Edit: lol that was my first post in over three months

I've come from the grave to troll you once more.

 

[fkacyan]

I've come from the grave to troll you once more.

Don't quote people on my ignore list.

8|

 

[da K.I.D.]

why would justblaze be on anybodys ignore list? dude is hella chill...

 

[-Mars-]

Because San isn't hella chill and thus hates hella chill doods????

That would be my best guess....

 

[Dark.Pch]

How come praxis isn't here already?





Srry Dark, this is incorrect, it's actually the opposite.

The japanese metagame has two key differences from ours.

1. An emphasis on absolute safety.

2. Extreme technical consistency.


As such their metagame is gayer then ours, not less gay.

I'm gonna have to disagree with that

 

[-Mars-]

Based off what? Just disagreeing with something just because you can't admit that you're wrong makes you look dumb.

The facts were just laid out in front of your eyes.

 

[Orion*]

Calm down, nobody's putting anything on a pedestal.

You see the tier list posted in the OP?

"Us" is referring to the people that the tier list is for. If another region has a different tier list, then they are not included in the "us".

Why should we consider metagames with different rulesets, players/characters, stagelists, and other varying factors with our own, especially when they have a tier list of their own?

You clearly missed my point- I don't really feel the need to repeat what I just stated so you can understand.

It's still disconcertin to see you making non troll posts.

Times be a changin

This is where I'd have to simply disagree with you.

I don't want a tier list where some characters are ONLY where they are because some player in Istanbul places well under a completely different set of conditions.

There's much more difference than a 10 minute timer. There's players, GOOD character mains (or lack thereof in some places), stagelists, mindsets...

Do they even plank in Japan?

Once again you prove that you really don't much about what you are talking about

Homosexuality is in the eye of the beholder

Edit: lol that was my first post in over three months

LOLOLOL idk why i died laughing at that

Based off what? Just disagreeing with something just because you can't admit that you're wrong makes you look dumb.

The facts were just laid out in front of your eyes.

Thank you

also, chuee made a post that didnt make me rage, thumbs up to him

The tier is actually called the BBR tier list, not the the American tier list. Even though this site is mostly North American players, there are still some Japanese and European players in the BBR and on this site.

 

[Lenus Altair]

I don't want a tier list where some characters are ONLY where they are because some player in Istanbul places well under a completely different set of conditions.

Their conditions in Japan are not completely different.

Do they even plank in Japan?

*facepalm*

Homosexuality is in the eye of the beholder

Edit: lol that was my first post in over three months

Yes it is

 

[Steam]

Lucario players suck. Thats why I don't base things with his o9n tourny results. People but the blame on characters too much. But never wanna blame themselfs like they are doing it all right. So lets not give me that. Maybe if there was a Lucario on top level, then I might buy this. But there isnt.

potential translation

you could really say this if the lucarios pushed really hard and theorycrafted him to really good matchups....

yeah Lucario places well, but I could just argue that he belongs in like top 8 >.>

 

[Chuee]

also, chuee made a post that didnt make me rage, thumbs up to him

YES
mission accomplished

 

[WiiGi]

Just because meta knight is the top tier doesn't mean you should use him. It should be about brawling with characters you like to (Meta knight comes to mind). Of course the tier list was made for people to pick good characters to have a good chance of winning at offline tournaments because high tiers make them look good... and take home the prize.

 

[Spelt]

Just because meta knight is the top tier doesn't mean you should use him. It should be about brawling with characters you like to (Meta knight comes to mind). Of course the tier list was made for people to pick good characters to have a good chance of winning at offline tournaments because high tiers make them look good... and take home the prize.

inb4 major flame.

 

[Fuujin]

1. zelda actually does better than 'horrible horrible ****' in the matchup against falco.

No.

2. its still pretty bad tho, your probably having trouble because your trying to approach zelda because your lasers are getting reflected.

Lolno.

You clearly don't press A enough...

Fixd.

I'd MUCH rather fight a camping Falco than one that approaches.

 

[Matador]

You clearly missed my point- I don't really feel the need to repeat what I just stated so you can understand

I understand what you mean. There are players outside NA in the backroom that offer their help n whatnot.

That's not a problem. It's when arguments like "Well pit performs well in Japan...Just look at Masashi!" sprout up that I disagree. Masashi's tourney performance shouldn't affect Pit's standing on a tier list that doesn't reflect his metagame.

If this tier list DOES reflect Japanese metagame as well as NA, then why do they have a tier list?

 

[Kite0692]

Why is not allowed to play as any pokemon on its own (POKEMON TRAINER)? Why is not allowed in tourneys?

 

[Malcolm.O]

Why is not allowed to play as any pokemon on its own (POKEMON TRAINER)? Why is not allowed in tourneys?

Because you can't select Pokemon individually without hacks

 

[Kite0692]

What is the issue letting enable that code? It would be like playing with sheik

 

[NickRiddle]

What is the issue letting enable that code? It would be like playing with sheik

Because that requires every single Wii in the tournament to have the same hack.
If one Wii doesn't have it, and the Squirtle/Ivy/Zard player is assigned to play there... they're screwed?

 

[Rockstar]

Read my sig and tell me what you think.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Japan mains proves enough with their top of the metagame Pits that he has a great deal more potential then what is being exerted here.

That's not a problem. It's when arguments like "Well pit performs well in Japan...Just look at Masashi!" sprout up that I disagree. Masashi's tourney performance shouldn't affect Pit's standing on a tier list that doesn't reflect his metagame.

Since I'm pretty sure I started the Pit in Japan line of conversation (this time) I'd just like to say that Masashi isn't the only high level Pit there but more importantly how Pit does in Japan does effect how his metagame should be viewed at large.

When Masashi/Earth/whoever plays Rain or another big name player on FD , the difference is two minutes. That doesn't change the general strategy of the match up. Yeah Japan has some rule differences, but the fundamentals seem more alike then different, and that plays through in their tournaments.

Also, how different do the rules play out when looking the USA alone? Aren't there regional stage difference, lgl limits, etc... How much of a difference is too divergent to consider, even partially?

 

[Poltergust]

What is the issue letting enable that code? It would be like playing with sheik

Except Sheik doesn't need codes if you want to solely play as her. With Pokemon Trainer, you are forced to switch Pokemon whenever you get KOed. Sheilda doesn't have that kind of feature (or, should we say, detriment).

 

[Rockstar]

It doesn`t make a difference what character you main. Despite the millions of advantage/disadvantage situations in this game, and insane predicaments that occur. It`s about commitment. Discovering what your character does best, and what you have to work on. Sticking it through, one game at a time.

 

[Chuee]

It doesn`t make a difference what character you main. Despite the millions of advantage/disadvantage situations in this game, and insane predicaments that occur. It`s about commitment. Discovering what your character does best, and what you have to work on. Sticking it through, one game at a time.

You can win with any character, though better characters have a better shot at winning than lower characters, and it tends to show in tournaments.