Official BBR Tier List v5

[Technodeath]

You know what Link needs?

A recovery that doesn't suck.

 

[Psychoace]

Yeah once you're off the edge he's pretty much a sitting target for everyone.

 

[Technodeath]

You get some links that actually know how to get themselves a somewhat safe passage back to the stage. But most of the time it's just hopeless to try.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Links problems are that his recovery sucks, he gets gayed by everything, his grab sucks, shield ***** him, and his projectiles can be shut down with simple powershields and approaches.

 

[Spelt]

most projectiles in this game are shut down by powershielding.

 

[Z'zgashi]

exactly, and link has a terrible close game with his fastest ground move being, I believe, jab which is frame 6.

 

[Conviction]

It's pretty saddening seeing how interesting Link looks and then 1 or 2 attributes make a person turn around and main TL.

 

[WindMajor]

It's pretty saddening seeing how interesting Link looks and then 1 or 2 attributes make a person turn around and main TL.

Story of my life.

 

[Goldenadept]

toonlink scampers across the stage like a little animal

link just stomps around like an imbecile

Tink> link

 

[Z'zgashi]

Pssh, Link? Ganon stomps around like a ****in freight train and will smite yo *** if you dare cross him.

Ganon > Link. *****

 

[Orion*]

Gotta be honest sometimes i think ganon is better than some of the other LTs >_>

at least when he hits me I like. have something to worry about.

 

[Albert.]

Gotta be honest sometimes i think ganon is better than some of the other LTs >_>

at least when he hits me I like. have something to worry about.

I agree wholeheartedly!

but I feel like whenever I say "I don't think ganon is the worst..." people laugh

 

[Flayl]

In before Bowser is the worst in the game

 

[zeldasmash]

It's pretty saddening seeing how interesting Link looks and then 1 or 2 attributes make a person turn around and main TL.

Agreed. I am pretty jealous of Toon Link because of it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

His projectiles make him better than most low tiers when you mix it together with his moves properly.

A lot of those MU's look worse or better than they should on the chart.

 

[stingers]

omg people agree with me about ganon not being the worst

ganon > falcon forever

 

[Tagxy]

I also think Ganon isnt the worst. By buffering dash attack out of shield drop he can punish soooo many things with dash attack just for hitting his shield (so good) and even when its stale it kills really early. And he has some pretty decent pseudo-combos that will either kill you or leave you mostly dead.

 

[Pierce7d]

Ganon is definitely the worst IMO.

You can literally react to most things that Ganon does.

Some MU experience completely negates his "tricks"

He's extremely unsafe, and you can do plenty of follow-ups on him.

He's easy to gimp.

 

[stingers]

pierce your problem is that u think about everything too literally

like you break everything down into itty bitty base parts and examine them that way instead of looking at the whole picture

which ends up being not so bad though made with primitive tools

 

[Pierce7d]

Stingers, you say this as if I have played any Ganons, haha. I believe Vermenubis is considered the best Ganondorf player at this time. Why not ask him if I am unaware of how Ganondorf functions? Also, I can also play a decent Ganon, although mine is now quite rusty.

Also, I wasn't aware I had a problem in this department . . .

I cannot easily explain entire concepts without explaining individual parts. It is not as if I had the game and you here in front of me so that I can show you how all the pieces fit together, but I like to think I put reasonably good effort into it when it's called for.

No one put forth any argument greater than "Ganon hits hard" so I did not feel extensive need to go indepth with why Ganon is the worst character.

Also, he has by far the worse MU spread, and the most unwinnable MUs.

 

[stingers]

i wasn't really trying to insult u or anything so sorry if u took it that way. but like...you listed all of these negative facets of ganon (of which he has ****loads lol ofc) but overall...these things dont completely relegate him to dead last. its like...he gets hard countered by more chars than falcon or zelda yea, but do those things determine overall worth? i don't think so personally but I can see why some people do

I see ganon and see that he has enough options to succeed, more than falcon IMO. sure hes slower and has less safe tools but not less effective tools

 

[san.]

My opinion is that Ganon isn't in a tier all by himself. Being able to react to Ganondorf differs on spacing/positioning. If Ganon manages to corner you in an isolated half of a stage, chances of reacting to specific things decrease.

Ganon is a tank, so if he consistently DIs upwards, his recovery isn't much worse than those around him.

Gerudo(sp?)is enough to put him in the same tier as the other bottom characters, since it helps mitigates a good portion of Ganon's problem areas during the moment it connects. One needs to have pretty specific spacing to actually beat out an aerial gerudo consistently.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Just looked back and saw the Ganon > Peach.

I know people think she needs to drop and stuff, but my lord I feel like this is half way trolling at this point.

 

[HeroMystic]

Link is so underrated. If Link had more attention into improving his metagame, his matchups would not be that horrible. R.I.P Link's awesomeness.

Link is actually perhaps the most developed LT character. I don't think there's anything left to pluck out of him unless someone magically finds out how to bomb jump.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Link is actually perhaps the most developed LT character. I don't think there's anything left to pluck out of him unless someone magically finds out how to bomb jump.

Yeah, mostly people know what he can do it's up to the players playing him at this point.

Granted people also need to get technically like Kirin and co. to be effective, and doing all that work on a LT is unappealing to people.

 

[da K.I.D.]

kirin didnt seem all that technical when i played him. just really smart with good timing and spacing.

link is still free tho.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

kirin didnt seem all that technical when i played him. just really smart with good timing and spacing.

link is still free tho.

Kirin is technical enough.

Other Link's are more technical but he is better at the core mechanics of this game which is why he does better with Link.

Link is free, probably, just don't lose to Legan in a MM again lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I would say ask kirin what happened when i played him but i cant even use that as a reference cus i almost ragequit that match when i messed up a guaranteed kill. lol

ill 3-0 the next link I play in a money match tho.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

MM me, I'm free with both characters I play.

 

[Kinzer]

ill 3-0 the next link I play in a money match tho.

... For your own sake next time, bring mittens.

and obviously all the other basic advice, like don't play in a pattern, play safe, blah blah blah.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

ill 3-0 the next link I play in a money match tho.

Money match my Link, son.

 

[adumbrodeus]

pierce your problem is that u think about everything too literally

like you break everything down into itty bitty base parts and examine them that way instead of looking at the whole picture

which ends up being not so bad though made with primitive tools

That works when the character has something to actually FORCE a mix-up game in a situation where his options beat a relevant number of his opponent's options. Ganon just doesn't have that.

 

[Abel1994]

wooooooow so nothing changed?

 

[stingers]

That works when the character has something to actually FORCE a mix-up game in a situation where his options beat a relevant number of his opponent's options. Ganon just doesn't have that.

sure he does. say he's trying to get off the ledge, he has air gerudo which beats shields and non-disjoints, ledgehop nair which has pretty good range and protects him on the way up, or just a stand up to counter people that are trying to get those hard reads. or say you're on a platform and he's not, he can cover most of your options with uair and if you jump away he can just follow you as you fall, if you've got particularly good aerial mobility you're still vulnerable at landing from gerudo. or say you're at the edge of the stage against ganon, if you can't reliably retreat backwards then you're gonna have to deal with anything ganon can throw at you which is one of many options at any given time instead of just retreating and punishing which would generally be preferred against ganons piss poor approaches

 

[adumbrodeus]

sure he does. say he's trying to get off the ledge, he has air gerudo which beats shields and non-disjoints, ledgehop nair which has pretty good range and protects him on the way up, or just a stand up to counter people that are trying to get those hard reads. or say you're on a platform and he's not, he can cover most of your options with uair and if you jump away he can just follow you as you fall, if you've got particularly good aerial mobility you're still vulnerable at landing from gerudo. or say you're at the edge of the stage against ganon, if you can't reliably retreat backwards then you're gonna have to deal with anything ganon can throw at you which is one of many options at any given time instead of just retreating and punishing which would generally be preferred against ganons piss poor approaches

And yet you ignore the most important position in the game, the neutral position.

 

[stingers]

lol whats the 'neutral position'? is that when both chars are an equal distance from the center of the stage or something? i dont think thats a very common occurance

 

[IsmaR]

Neutral jing is doing nothing, obviously. In literal terms I think it'd be when neither of you has a favorable position.

 

[bigman40]

Netural position is when both characters are at a current standoff (nether character in the air or approaching/attacking).

Also, hi Ismar. :D

 

[stingers]

i dunno i think every position is favorable for one person or the other. unless you're both dead. but then whoever died later would have more invincibility

 

[mynameisstevenn]

olimar and pikachu should be above wario and mario.