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Irony is your avi looking mad ready to beat the **** out of someoneI don't think that's irony...
Oh christ, this is the only community that takes the idea of theorycrafting and sums all of it up as bad.lol at everyone thinking it's so easy just to jump out against the FASTEST air character and footstool him when 95% of the time we recover high, have 5 up b's, and save our DJ. Plus we have uair which comes out in 6ish frames, has a slight disjoint, and KOs at low 100s.
Try again super theory bros
Theoretical talk about realityIf we aren't allowed to theorycraft, then what the **** are we talking about here then?
you know that we have set speed while double jumping? our whole double jump ignores airspeed somehow additionally it's only MAX AIR SPEED, the acceleration isn't that top at all and only about 3 of our 5 upBs make sense :3lol at everyone thinking it's so easy just to jump out against the FASTEST air character and footstool him when 95% of the time we recover high, have 5 up b's, and save our DJ. Plus we have uair which comes out in 6ish frames, has a slight disjoint, and KOs at low 100s.
Try again super theory bros
Like sheilding an attack at the ledge, falling off and either DJ'ing to grab the ledge or just attack after falling off?I'm not sure if its Yoshi specific or not, I've never realised it with other chars that much.
Could be a combination of Yoshis Traction (very low) and his shield.
If You get hit by a strong attack and roll away you roll very far.
If you get hit by a strong attack and roll towards the attack it's like you do a very bad spotdodge xD
so because people are ignorant of a situation- we need to ban something? LOLI said mid-high levels of play, and that level is where MK gets most of his gimps, because people at such levels don't really know what to do against him. How to avoid, how to recover afterwards, etc.
okay i used a bad exampleAt these levels, ICs aren't as potent. I see far too many Popos losing their Nanas before they can do any real damage. Keeping the ICs together and performing CGs are significantly harder than MK using Dair/UpB in midair...
And yes, mid and high levels are where we'll find a vast majority of players...
your point..?A few of characters are viable because they have 4-6 matchups against MK, and see him more often than what would otherwise be, y'know, other counters to their characters. I personally believe MK causes players to lack MU knowledge for other characters, because everyone's worrying about, "omg how do i beat mk?" >___>
if you KNOW something is going to happen, then its really not that hard...It's not possible. If MK randomizes the release of his Fsmash out of charge, you can't react in time to shield SDI. You'll more than likely end up rolling behind him, which usually ends up with him Dsmash/Nairing you.
if i wasnt in his face i would have just waited and then dash attacked or tilted after...That's because you were already rushing in. It looks more like you were already in his face by the time he committed to Fsmash, so you finished the job. Shadow didn't even have time to get to the charging part of his Fsmash. If you weren't that close to begin with, things likely would've played out differently there...
show me a video of someone doing a perfect invincible fair in tournament and i will careYou have 24 frames of invincibility as soon as you are able to move off the ledge. Fair autocancels on the ground on frame 21. 3 frames left to perform a defensive option, grab, or Dsmash/Dtilt. Opponent cannot reliably what you're going to use. He has to guess with 1/3 odds.
just airdodge before you land for uair...That's just one example. If the opponent gets too close, for example, MK can ledgedrop midair jump Uair off the ledge and still have 11 more frames to do stuff invincibly as long as he doesn't land(you still get landing lag on the ground if you land within 8 frames after the move ends... what's up with that?). Aerial invincibility for 8 frames... Shuttle Loop? Dimensional Cape? Nado? There's no way the opponent can react to this reliably either.
"in other words, characters with bad ground games cant beat characters with good ones, but characters with better ground games can"Look, my point here is that between MK's Ftilt, Dtilt, GSL, Nado, Dsmash, Grab, Dashgrab, Dash Attack and OOS Nair, all of which occur outside the range of human reaction, MK has a clearly superior ground game to characters who are obviously not programmed to be on the ground 100% of the time(aka, he shouldn't bother against Olimar, Diddy, Snake...)
It's way too much for non ground oriented characters to deal with.
Asking players to outrun those two moves while above MK is just unreasonable. Look at the horizontal and vertical coverage those two moves have. You'd have to pretty much be Jigglypuff, Yoshi, or Wario to outrun that kind of stuff.
Plus, you can't do momentum changing things out of hitstun. Doesn't work."obviously i can still potentially cover these options but its not like youre auto losing a stock, you probably will eat a uair or nado before you land unless you get hard read"
will has a MUCH longer time AND space to put himself at an angle to properly do thatI'm not so sure it's as easy to punish as you say. Characters with slow normalfall speeds and fast fastfall speeds have this tendency to being able to grab the ledge easier.
Take Will for example. I've seen more than enough people knock his DK off the stage to the point that it forces him to bucket brake with Spinning Kong, then subsequently fail to hit him as he goes for the ledge, because of his smart use of fastfalling.
mk has a space thats VERY small that he has to maintain being in...
LOL what is this a cult?Well, this is mostly me speaking for other members, but there are TONS of people who agree that if planking is too good, then it should be cut off at the source, aka MK himself.
If LGLs are necessary for the game to run well, then it's essentially the same as saying MK's planking is too good, hence it must be limited. A lot of people make the jump from that to being pro-ban, tbh. Not me, though.
As far as myself, I'm passive on this matter... for now. I may take sides later on.
>_< vids or it didnt happenI footstool Yoshi after an egg toss, and then I fart on him
and then i looked at your sig and mind trippedTheoretical talk about reality
Not that, but I firmly believe MK is dominating a lot of the mid-high levels of play and preventing a lot of players from rising to the top level.so because people are ignorant of a situation- we need to ban something? LOL
Idk... R.O.B., Kirby, Peach? MAYBE Marth, only because he allegedly has 2 bad MUs(MK and Dedede), but idk, I haven't been seeing Marth place high at all lately, which makes me think he's not viable for some reason.your point..?
although im curious what characters you think would be viable w/out mk that arent already...
Listen up, MK can release that Fsmash at any point he wants over the course of 120 frames. Since there's no way for you to know when he'll do that(unless he fullcharges), taking shield stun and endlag into account, that doesn't even give you 10 frames to react.if you KNOW something is going to happen, then its really not that hard...
although even if the fsmash hits your shiled i dont know whats so bad lol
I'm sure you've seen enough tourney action to see that ledgehopped Fair is the go-to move while MK's on the edge... why do you think people have such an issue punishing it?show me a video of someone doing a perfect invincible fair in tournament and i will care
It's 11 frames, my bad.just airdodge before you land for uair...
but you said 11 then 8 frames... -.-
anyway youre OFFSTAGE, why does it matter. youre not hitting your opponent with any of that crap- they should just wait and then an LGL will hit
That's because there are only like, 4 ground oriented characters. Snake, Diddy, Olimar, and ICs. Everyone else pretty much gets full bodied by the blunt of MK's ground game."in other words, characters with bad ground games cant beat characters with good ones, but characters with better ground games can"
-.-
But ideally, a player would want to land every time without taking any hits. MK, over here, guarantees one or more hits because of oversized hitboxes. You don't see a problem with that...? Especially considering there aren't any other characters who can expect a hit on you in the air(Unless you're Ike and punishing an airdodge with Uair LOL)?"obviously i can still potentially cover these options but its not like youre auto losing a stock, you probably will eat a uair or nado before you land unless you get hard read"
The opponent also has a much longer time to react to Will headed for the ledge. They only get 30 frames to stop MK before he reaches the ledge, and that's also including the fact that they're likely not on top of MK, since he was just in the middle of Nado.will has a MUCH longer time AND space to put himself at an angle to properly do that
mk has a space thats VERY small that he has to maintain being in...
Idk lol but that seems to be the general consensus. I only semi-agree with it for the time being.LOL what is this a cult?
If you factor in human error then it would fall both ways, its easier on the one attempting to plank though so it evens out.You also need to factor in human error considering the fact that it's impossible to buffer a ledge-release, or anything from it.
The end result will be quite a few frames lost.
you didn't know this already? >.>I actually learned something totally awesome a couple of days ago.
Yoshi can shield-grab Lucario's f-smash. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
...Actually, now that I think about it, does shield-stun and sliding increase the higher Lucario's aura is?
thats why i asked for vids of people doing perfect invincible fairs in tournamentIf you factor in human error then it would fall both ways, its easier on the one attempting to plank though so it evens out.
Let alone you didn't exactly answer what I said.