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Official BBR Tier List v5

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Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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I lol'ed @ KID

:064:

And SFP, the problem with shielding the first few hits of Peach's Dair, then letting go is that the final hit of Dair sends you up. I would be very surprised if you managed to DI out of the remaining hits that quickly before getting hit by the final hit. A much more realistic situation is that you get hit by the first hits of Dair, DI up and hit Peach and that's if she hasn't moved away or angled the Dair properly

Saying Peach is bad because of that reason is wrong
instormangryPeachmains
again

:urg:
 

Z'zgashi

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Lol hey, it's true, he even ***** Bowser :awesome:

Unfortunately Furries with guns > Dinosaurs cuz all the spacies own Yoshi :(
 

Z'zgashi

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Are you kidding? The dinosaurs gave their ****ing lives to save the turtles
 

Z'zgashi

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Why does everyone think DK should go down? He does better than at least couple chars above him. He has better results than Kirby, ROB, Pit, Peach, and possibly even Fox, but I'm not positive on that last one. The only chars behind him that do better atm are Sonic, maybe Wolf, and possibly Ike, but even then, that leaves him with at least a +1 gain.
 

Z'zgashi

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Good rep, decent MUs (outside of D3), good results, a good damage racking game, good kills, etc.
 

Xebenkeck

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Because fat penguins and bats are more abundant, and Gorillas can't handle that.

seriously, he isn't really bad, we even had him top 10 at one point. But in a tier list that is based off a ruleset where infinates are not banned, he is not that good. I personally feel he is better also, I think Ook's signature said my thoughts at one point -4, -4 wtf man
 

Z'zgashi

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And yet Ripple, Dr. Grandpa, and Will do great in a lot of big tournaments.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Well at the point where his stamina is run out, it makes it alot easier to deal with him. Risk v Reward becomes much more of a factor. Since his damage output and KB decrease from fatigue, he's pretty much vulnerable to what ever **** his opposition is going to deliver.
Being a weak attacker doesn't mean that you can get molested easily. Look at Peach. It doesn't make Squirtle any easier to hit.

Plus, while the opportunities aren't everywhere, decreased knockback at lower percentages often means that aerial comboes last longer. Chaining U-Airs to more U-Airs, and sourspot F-Air/B-Air to another aerial or a grab becomes much easier. Sourspot N-Air gives much less time to react and tech.

Reflex does one actually need to time out squirtles stamina?

I was under the impression its safer just to kill them
Squirtle's not even A-Tier material as he is, so I suppose no one really -needs- to fight stamina, but if the option is there, why not at least keep it in mind?

One thing to keep in mind is that tiredness actually goes to 3:20's worth of time. It takes two minutes to start at 80% knockback/damage, and the last 1:20 slowly lowers to 70%.

Another point is that when a Pokémon is KO'd, 70% of that Pokémon's fatigue is gone. Since it's a number from 0 to 200, at maxed out fatigue, when KO'd, that goes to ~67. Also, for every second that Pokémon isn't in the battle, the number is lowered by 1.67. If a person were to immediately switch back to Squirtle, it would only have about 30 seconds of fatigue. It's not hard to stall for another fifteen seconds with Flamethrower and short-hop aerials.

That being said, it can put pressure on the Squirtle player, especially in matchups against heavy characters.

Yoshi ***** squirtle
I disagree.
 

Z'zgashi

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I disagree.
Our CG leads into every move in our arsenal and kills him with fsmash (an easy move to keep fresh) at around 80% or less on the ledge, plus we are fast on both ground and air, we have an abusable projectile, we can GR to fair spike at the ledge, pivot grab is safe due to it's range and squirtles bad range, we weigh far more, we have a much better recovery, yoshi's tilts beat out practically everything squirtle does, we have an air grab... And probably more.

@BNn: That's only one MU, look at Fox/Wolf.
 

Xebenkeck

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I'm agreeing with you that Dk should be higher, i'm just stating why i believe he was/is placed so low. Wolf is lower than Dk, and Fox doesn't get an actual infinate, despite being chain-*****. So just by that logic that is why they are where they are right now relative to each other.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Our CG leads into every move in our arsenal and kills him with fsmash (an easy move to keep fresh) at around 80% or less on the ledge, plus we are fast on both ground and air, we have an abusable projectile, we can GR to fair spike at the ledge, pivot grab is safe due to it's range and squirtles bad range, we weigh far more, we have a much better recovery, yoshi's tilts beat out practically everything squirtle does, we have an air grab... And probably more.
Your chaingrab leads into an -infinite- on Wario. Do you have the advantage in that matchup?

There's no way F-Smash KOs until at least 100%.

Your projectile and pivot grab are made less effective by Water Gun, which greatly pushes an opponent that isn't moving in a direction.

Yoshi can get juggled pretty well due to his weight and recovery options against Squirtle. Your tilts are not as useful as Squirtle's.

...And probably more.
 

Z'zgashi

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Wario is even, and arguably even slightly our favor. Thing there is that he has speed and options that actually work, plus can actually avoid the grab, that's why it's not wreckage.

Fsmash is hella strong, it'll kill that early on the second lightest character in the game.

Oh no, water gun resets the field, whoopie.

And yoshi is a lot harder to juggle than you think Remember, he's the fastest in the air, has super armor on DJ, has 6 jumps, and has a quick approach to the ground with down b that sweetspots the ledge. Unlike squirtle who's pretty easy to juggle. And your tilts dont have enough range if we play it right.
 

da K.I.D.

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And yet Ripple, Dr. Grandpa, and Will do great in a lot of big tournaments.
Also Cable.
One thing to keep in mind is that tiredness actually goes to 3:20's worth of time. It takes two minutes to start at 80% knockback/damage, and the last 1:20 slowly lowers to 70%.

Another point is that when a Pokémon is KO'd, 70% of that Pokémon's fatigue is gone. Since it's a number from 0 to 200, at maxed out fatigue, when KO'd, that goes to ~67. Also, for every second that Pokémon isn't in the battle, the number is lowered by 1.67. If a person were to immediately switch back to Squirtle, it would only have about 30 seconds of fatigue. It's not hard to stall for another fifteen seconds with Flamethrower and short-hop aerials.

That being said, it can put pressure on the Squirtle player, especially in matchups against heavy characters.
Basically what I read here is that the first stock makes or breaksthe match the majority of the time.

If squirtle dies first, the other 2 pokemon are liable to get destroyed depending on matchup. and than your anywhere from 1 to 2 stocks down which is almost a death sentance in this game.

If squirtle kills first, he can take a large chunk of the opponents next stock with the whole diddy property of none of his moves having any real knockback, thus making them easy to chain. And than add to that the fact that as soon as squirtle DOES die, you can pretty much immediately throw him right back in there since most of his stam is back.

Do I have this right?




Wario is even, and arguably even slightly our favor. Thing there is that he has speed and options that actually work, plus can actually avoid the grab, that's why it's not wreckage.

I dont know if youve SEEN squirtle in this game... but hes pretty much just a tiny wario that trades fart and weight for ground speed and a throw that kills.


Oh no, water gun resets the field, whoopie.
on a character that can be so prone to early deaths sometimes by being offstage, I can see water gun actually putting yoshi in a really bad spot at times.

And yoshi is a lot harder to juggle than you think Remember, he's the fastest in the air, has super armor on DJ, has 6 jumps, and has a quick approach to the ground with down b that sweetspots the ledge. Unlike squirtle who's pretty easy to juggle. And your tilts dont have enough range if we play it right.
1. I dont thinks its really fair to say that yoshi has 6 jumps. that would be like saying jpuff has infinite jumps because of rising pound.

Reflex, How does water gun affect yoshi bomb to the ledge?

also, zz, I dont know what PTs youve played, but I know reflex has a good amount of first hand experience with someone that I know was at least at one point, now or past, established as one of your best yoshis,

you might not want to brush off his opinion lightly.
 

Z'zgashi

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You act like yoshi is going to get gimped by squirtle, like, ever. Yoshi should NEVER be getting gimped by him, and just because we're slightly below the ledge doesn't mean we're in a bad position, if fact, if we up b to the ledge and throw the egg onstage, we can start to ledge camp.

Wario is far different than squirtle in this MU because wario can actually keep up with yoshi IN THE AIR where most of yoshi's stuff happens. Wario's air speed is the reason it's so even. Squirtle doesn't have that. Sure he has decent ground speed, but yoshi is till faster even there, and has better options in almost every situation.

Also, why would we yoshi bomb the ledge if we know he has water gun right there and then, we might as well wavebounce away with an egg lay to send a grab box in front of us as we hit the ground or something.
 

Juushichi

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Going back a tiny bit, Auspher. Not to give a call out, but you should beat other MW Sheiks before you think you can beat Tutu's.
 
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Going back a tiny bit, Auspher. Not to give a call out, but you should beat other MW Sheiks before you think you can beat Tutu's.
What other MW Sheiks? I've only heard of two, lol.

Edit: No offense to you, but the last we played I was able to win with both Wolf and Luigi. I'm just wondering if there's anyone else besides Tutu and Judo.
 

Kinzer

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as far as I know he lost to anuar twice in the same tournament, if thats what you are asking.

I'm somewhat confused
Is that so?

Ugh, well now that complicates things. It's one thing for one person to have a bad day, and then something else to get a chance to play the same person twice in the same day and still mess up. Could've been the former but I still won't make up any excuses or say anything definitive at this point.

But on a different, where's that proof? Like I said, it's one thing to have a bad day, but how can I be sure you're not making this up on the spot? Is the bracket not up and you can't give me a link or something?

If only for the sake of archiving the tournament, I'd like to have the link. We rarely hear of X since that guy either doesn't have internet, can't afford to keep it running, or has better/other things to do.

All of this is hilarious. Thank god the only opinions that matter in the end are that of the bbr's.
Not even.

:093:
 

Hylian

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zucco and junbug are better than Lee at lucario imho.
Have you played Lees lucario? lmao I don't think either of them are as good as trela, much less lee.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Wario is even, and arguably even slightly our favor. Thing there is that he has speed and options that actually work, plus can actually avoid the grab, that's why it's not wreckage.

Fsmash is hella strong, it'll kill that early on the second lightest character in the game.

Oh no, water gun resets the field, whoopie.

And yoshi is a lot harder to juggle than you think Remember, he's the fastest in the air, has super armor on DJ, has 6 jumps, and has a quick approach to the ground with down b that sweetspots the ledge. Unlike squirtle who's pretty easy to juggle. And your tilts dont have enough range if we play it right.
I think the idea of Wario having a disadvantage against Yoshi is laughable. He jumps circles around you, you're not really allowed to shield, you're fairly easy to edgeguard, and Bite does a number on most of Yoshi's attacks when used right. You can't beat Wario in the air just because he's able to avoid most of Yoshi's air attacks with ease, whereas Wario's air speed allows him to poke rather well. It's at least 55-45 Wario, if not worse for Yoshi.

F-Smash really isn't that strong. Good move, for sure, but it's not -that- powerful. I am quite sure about this.

As far as Water Gun goes, Yoshi's not-awesome horizontal acceleration means that you're not allowed to just spam aerials. N-Air takes a ton of hitlag from the water and gets F-Air'd, for instance. The thing about Water Gun is, it just prevents a person from moving if the opponent is holding toward it from the air or running toward it on the ground, but if the opponent is not moving at all (say, while using a projectile or grabbing, you get pushed hard and fast. The ledge isn't Yoshi's favorite place to be, and if you like using your eggs on stage, it's not hard to get you there.

Super armor is eaten by D-Air, and Yoshi doesn't have a way to trade with Squirtle's U-Air. Water Gun breaks eggs and allows Squirtle to approach from the air while Yoshi throws eggs, which severely limits the ways that Yoshi can recover. Recovering against Squirtle will be harder than you seem to think.

Juggling Squirtle is difficult for some characters; Squirtle can B-Reverse Water Gun with his excellent horizontal aerial mobility while still being able to move in another direction if I want.

Also, I'm guessing you've never actually fought against a F-Tilt-spamming Squirtle, but it's a really, really stupid move. If you see it coming from a mile away, you can use the opportunity to running grab me, but if I'm baiting with it, or, better yet, just spotdodge or roll away, F-Tilt's not going to get punished much.

Basically what I read here is that the first stock makes or breaksthe match the majority of the time.

If squirtle dies first, the other 2 pokemon are liable to get destroyed depending on matchup. and than your anywhere from 1 to 2 stocks down which is almost a death sentance in this game.

If squirtle kills first, he can take a large chunk of the opponents next stock with the whole diddy property of none of his moves having any real knockback, thus making them easy to chain. And than add to that the fact that as soon as squirtle DOES die, you can pretty much immediately throw him right back in there since most of his stam is back.

Do I have this right?
That sounds about right. The first stock is very important for setting the pace of the match, probably moreso than any other character.

Reflex, How does water gun affect yoshi bomb to the ledge?
If there's a decent amount of space between where Water Gun hits and the ledge (The bottom Battlefield platforms? Maybe a little higher), Yoshi is pushed enough to screw him.
 

Poltergust

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Wait, Reflex, I'm confused. If you don't think Yoshi doesn't own Squirtle (which I personally think he does, but that's besides the point), then why do you think that Yoshi is still such a bad match-up overall? I think that Yoshi's easiest match-up of the 3 is Squirtle and the hardest is Ivysaur, but he still has an advantage over all of them. How would you rate Yoshi's match-ups with the individual Pokemon?

:069:
 
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