Official BBR Tier List v5

[Chuee]

Peach's and Diddy's I believe agreed to the ratio, there wasn't a disagreement with it.

Illmatic disagrees, and I'm pretty sure Gnes does too. idk what ADHD thinks about it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Lp has disagreed with it for like years lol

 

[Purple]

OH LOOK, it's a purple name party.

Seagull, what's your record against the good marth's?

 

[WindMajor]

I have a question.

Should Toon Link be Mid or High Tier on the next update?
Does he deserve a rise/fall over the characters surrounding him?

Toon Link main says that should be top of mid tier.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Illmatic disagrees, and I'm pretty sure Gnes does too. idk what ADHD thinks about it.

Well either way they were almost unanimous in saying Peach wins.

 

[Spelt]

I think purple namesearches purple.

 

[z00ted]

Well either way they were almost unanimous in saying Peach wins.

That's dumb.

The BBR consists of mainly old Peach players. They have Edreese, Praxis, and Mikey Lenetia - all players who were dominant with the character before Diddy's uprise. I can understand why they were able to beat him back then, float, dair, nair would block him out because Diddy's didn't understand Peach yet and their metagame wasn't fully developed.

If it was unanimous (which I doubt), it was not well informed.

I've had insane amount of Diddy practice. I've played Fliphop, Gnes, GDX, DFear, ADHD, etc etc most of which whom I have beaten and I will tell you that it's not even remotely in her favor.

Gnes will tell you it's not in her favor.
Nicole will tell you it's not in her favor.
lloD will tel you it's not in her favor.
Raz will tell you it's not in her favor.
ADHD will tell you it's not in her favor.
Kyle will tell you it's not in her favor.
and of course, I will tell you it's not in her favor.

The only Peaches that I believe will have faith in saying it's even or in our favor would be King Beef and Dark Pch.

King Beef's I will respect, but LOOOOOL I'm not reading ANYTHING Dark Pch. has to say about our character because he overrates her out the ***.

Peach's tools - currently do not even come close to "zoning" Diddy out, or creating some sort of "barrier" his banana game is currently too strong (even in the air), and he has much more safe options compared to ours. Sure, short hop dair will catch a banana - but how much can we REALLY do with it? Get a fair here or there? We can't get an usmash (unless you read the roll EXTREMELY well), at the best we could get a forward smash.

He wins on all of the neutrals, he will probably ban Brinstar allowing us to take us to Rainbow Cruise (which isn't that great), and then if we win we get to choose between Final Destination or Pictochat.

-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

Let's take a look at this matchup chart. It's not only Peach who is severely overrated against Diddy. Luigi -1? Are you serious? Metaknight at even? Kirby, ROB, Mario, and Pit all even? omfg loooool. DDD at +1 as well as Sheik?

All I gotta say is come to Texas.

Then you ALL will understand.

 

[Kantrip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e_HkZZHxd8

I agree with Illmatic.

 

[z00ted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e_HkZZHxd8

I agree with Illmatic.

For real.

Although, I was playing poorly - just examine this video and tell me how Diddy loses to Peach. Keep in mind that I have a plethora of Diddy experience and have a great positive record against all Diddies except Gnes and ADHD (better players).

He can't die.
He doesn't get hit by dair (shield and spotdodge are too strong).
His fair outranges almost all of our moves.
Can SDI dair to Uair at mid percentages.
Bananas
Camp

Broken

 

[Nicole]

first of all
I WILL NOT.

peach i think the diddy's said was even and we mostly said it was 55:45, a little in peach's favor.
personally i don't think it's in diddy's favor. it's about even i would say. ill you beat just about every diddy besides gnes, am i wrong? he is a better player than you. no disrespect. gnes is a much better player than most everyone in the community. just because you lose to him doesnt mean diddy beats peach. at worst it's 45:55 in his favor because his defensive options are ridiculously good. but i really see it as a pretty even MU.

also, the mk's were extremely lenient on all of MKs MUs. the diddy's wanted it to be 4:6 but it didnt end up that way.

 

[z00ted]

typical nicole, "metaknight isn't that bad of a matchup stuff"

y u complain about diddy den

 

[Nicole]

i complain about every matchup i'm bad at.
i happen to be bad at most matchups in this game.

plus i hate bananas.

=

 

[z00ted]

LOL yeah right, you're great at this game and you know a ****load of matchups (that most of us don't) like DDD and Olimar extremely well.

 

[Nicole]

yeah i didnt say i didnt know any matchups.
i know olimar, ddd, mk, marth, and kirby really well.

i'm not that great at this game.

also, you shouldn't post a video of you getting 3 stocked as evidence. you really weren't playing that well. diddy is that kind of character where he frustrates you into playing worse. if i posted a vid of me getting 3 stocked by an mk everyone would go nuts and be like OMG OF COURSE ITS UNWINNABLE. but that doesn't make it so.

diddy is stupid, but i dont see how he beats peach. trust me the more i play with peach the more i realize how many bad matchups she has. i just dont think diddy is one of her bad ones. i think you lack patience against him, especially when you get behind. its one of the reasons you dont do that well against olimar also. if you watch llod and adhd its much closer. i admit that i didnt watch too much of it cause it was really boring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm24jLkOEQc

llod said he didnt know the matchup well at all and he manages to do fine against the 1st/2nd best diddy in the country. also i'm pretty sure adhd knows the peach matchup quite well, i've never seen him lose to one (except kosmos a loooooong time ago).

 

[z00ted]

wifi .

 

[z00ted]

znah im kidding, i'm watching it right now.

ADHD isn't as strong in the matchup as Gnes, basically. He still won against lloD the master of all aib ladder playoffs though, so I don't see what point you are trying to get across.

A campy Peach may be more effective, but it still doesn't allow us to go even or win.

 

[Nicole]

edit: tried to argue for wifi's legit-ness, didn't have to THANK GOD.

what did you think the diddy mu was before you played gnes? you couldn't have thought it was that bad considering how many diddy's you've beaten. and how does playing more patient and campy not allow peach to go even? diddy is strongest (imo of course) when we have to approach him because his defensive options are really good and we cant hit him easily. but if he is coming at you it's much easier.

 

[z00ted]

Why should Diddy have to come at you? His shield is extremely strong, he can pull out two items, has an amazing spotdodge, can shoot peanuts, etc.

Welcome to Texas.

 

[Nicole]

he has to come at you if you have the % lead. kinda how the game works.

watch the first minute of llod vs adhd on FD. adhd approaches cause he doesnt have the % lead and loses his first stock when peach is at 65%.

 

[z00ted]

Watch the entirety of the rest of the set.

ADHD has the lead (and EVEN approaches here and there), lloD approaches and loses.

LOL this is dumb. We're basically arguing over a few specific matches, which honestly I don't like doing.

I'll respect your opinion on the Diddy matchup but I honestly feel as though it's -1 for us, and even at best.

 

[Nike.]

Illmatic, which matchups on the Peach BBR MU Chart do you disagree with?

 

[Thebest1pj]

tl is top of mid tier.

just doesn't belong in high tier.


edit:

banana in hand

banana on the ground

peanut gun out

Welcome to texas.

 

[z00ted]

Illmatic, which matchups on the Peach BBR MU Chart do you disagree with?

The Real BBR Matchup Chart for Peach

-3:
-2:
-1:
-.5:
0:
1:
2:
3:

The Fake BBR Matchup Chart for Peach

-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

___________________________

tl is top of mid tier.

just doesn't belong in high tier.


edit:

banana in hand

banana on the ground

peanut gun out

Welcome to texas.

omfg sig'd LOOOOOL

 

[Nicole]

its no big, i think a respectable debate every now and then is fine (and probably good for your image!) you certainly have played the MU more times than i have, and i usually respect your opinion on matchups even if i dont agree with it.

also there are alot of matchups on the bbr chart that i dont agree with. the chart is a product of compromise and cant be expected to be 100% accurate. peach has too many favorable or even matchups imo but that's the way it turned out. honestly for what it is, i think it turned out well.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm not Illmatic but I think -2 to MK is generous. Also I think she loses to Dedede slightly.

 

[Seagull Joe]

All I know is Wolf beats Peach (+1) and the matchup chart says its even (0) for reasons unknown.

 

[z00ted]

I'm not Illmatic but I think -2 to MK is generous. Also I think she loses to Dedede slightly.

check it yo

look down

look back up

you are now illmatic

look again

the BBR matchup chart is now perfect

 

[Nicole]

the only reason mk is listed as -2 is because both rob and ddd also listed mk as -2. i will say that i was very involved in making mk a -2 for us but there is absolutely no reason that she should be listed as worse than ddd and rob at the matchup when she clearly isn't. ill has beaten dojo and red halberd, i have beaten seibrik and dphat...i really dont see that mu as -3. at least it isnt worse than ddd and rob.

seagull i totally agree with you. take it up with the wolves, they were totally inactive and the peach rating (which i didnt agree with and dont agree with) of even passed with no opposition.

 

[z00ted]

I don't think any Peach agrees with the Wolf rating.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Those are good wins but you have to look at the losses too.

 

[Nicole]

they must, because they opposed my (correct) viewpoint on it being a disadvantage.


IMO
-3: snake
-2.5: mk
-2: marth, falco
-1: lucario, toon link, wolf, game & watch
0: diddy, dedede, fox, pit, dk, pokemon trainer, ike, samus, zamus, rob, wario
1: pikachu, olimar, lkirby, luigi, sonic, ice climbers, sheik, yoshi
2: ness, lucas, mario, bowser, jiggs
3: zelda, falcon, ganon, link

but making your own list is pretty pointless really...its not going to change for awhile. perhaps when you get back there you can see if people want to make some changes to the chart.

 

[Kantrip]

I think if a peach becomes flawless with air-dodge grabs/instant throws and generally plays defensively, the diddy matchup becomes pretty even.

 

[z00ted]

they must, because they opposed my (correct) viewpoint on it being a disadvantage.


IMO
-3: snake
-2.5: mk
-2: marth, falco
-1: lucario, toon link, wolf, game & watch
0: diddy, dedede, fox, pit, dk, pokemon trainer, ike, samus, zamus, rob, wario
1: pikachu, olimar, lkirby, luigi, sonic, ice climbers, sheik, yoshi
2: ness, lucas, mario, bowser, jiggs
3: zelda, falcon, ganon, link

but making your own list is pretty pointless really...its not going to change for awhile. perhaps when you get back there you can see if people want to make some changes to the chart.

I'm surprised with Snake at -3.

I'm also really really shocked at Marth being -2 for you. I was going to do that, but then I looked at the whole spectrum at Peach players and thought I would get flamed.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Nicole I've gone on record as saying I think a lot of characters have overrated their MK match-ups so it isn't just Peach. MK is +3 and +4 with most of the cast.

 

[Dark.Pch]

All I know is Wolf beats Peach (+1) and the matchup chart says its even (0) for reasons unknown.

I would so debate this but knowing you, you will just be stupid in the discussion while I a calm. I rather debate this with someone who does not play wolf then with you.

So I will say this, You are wrong and you can think what you want.

 

[Nike.]

I used to respect you

EDIT: Why wouldnt you want to debate the Peach Wolf MU with one of the best wolf mains, who's actually pretty respected around here?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah like I'd rather talk about a MU with someone who plays it rather than not unless they overhype their character and/or don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Exceladon City]

I'm sure Seagull has that Renan EXP. I would expect him to know what he's talking about.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I used to respect you

EDIT: Why wouldnt you want to debate the Peach Wolf MU with one of the best wolf mains, who's actually pretty respected around here?

Cause last time we did this and I brought in facts on the match up from my side, he was all like (lolololol, no, Peach sucks, bair, we win, camp, lolololol). I am not gonna bother with that anymore from people. I now just don't bother and/or add them on ignore. I try to be chill and calm with debating. And I expect people to do the same. But then people wanna try and show off online to get a few laughs. So then I turn the other cheek. Then this net image of me goes on (oh look, Its Dark.Pch, so emo, he sucks, wrong, lololloloolol).

So now I just don't bother. if he was not like that, then I have no problem, it was the same way with Shaya and DMG when we use to talk about Peach here. I not like any of them. Now I can debate with them just fine, even if we never agree on anything.

And that Peach player he plays, that means nothing to me at all. He is not that good to use as some legit example.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I would so debate this but knowing you, you will just be stupid in the discussion while I a calm. I rather debate this with someone who does not play wolf then with you.

So I will say this, You are wrong and you can think what you want.

Try me sir. Peach vs Wolf:

Peach will approach Wolf with glide toss turnips, float, or dash. Wolf will approach with laser, bair, fair, or something else. Wolf's retreated Fair/Bair are unpunishable on shield. When Wolf miss retreats a Bair, then he usually gets slap slapped by Peach's jab.

Peach has a hard time killing Wolf. Her usual kill moves consist of baited Uairs, Usmash, Fsmash, Bair, or Fair. Landing Bair and Fair are rather tricky if the Wolf is being mobile. The baited Uair, Fsmash, and Usmash are harder to land because Peach's usual frame traps and ground spacing are negated by Wolf's shine. Therefore, she usually will kill around 160-180's with Fair or something similar.

Wolf actually catches Peach's turnip rather well. His Fair is very similar to Marth's (Which is why he has no problem catching nanerz vs Diddy lol).

Peach can Cg Wolf into an Ftilt (He will be at 30ish% with the Ftilt combined), which is no surprise since most characters can Cg Wolf. The Cg doesn't mean much though because the damage is rather minuscule. Wolf's Bair>Fsmash combo (A combo past 10%) does about the same damage output (Though this is generally verse every character).

Wolf can beat Peach's Dair on his shield if he just waits and Usmash's OoS.

Wolf's general Cp's/Stage choices are much more preferable compared to Peach. He can take her to Brinstar, Rc, Halberd, any neutral, Delfino, Lylat, Pictochat, or Ps1 and have no problem. The matchup is probably even on Frigate (Wolf generally isn't good on Frigate, least the first part of Frigate).

Wolf can kill her much easier by comparison with Dsmash and fresh Bair/Fair. His moves are very safe on shield compared to other characters.

He also has a campable projectile that can frame trap with FH lasers, though Peach's aerial mobility makes the frame trap not as likely to happen since she's floaty.

Peach's AD is *** and Wolf's juggle capabilities are quite good with Uair/Fair.

He can also reflect turnips.

The only way this matchup would be even would be if you also took into consideration the immense theorycrafted Peach "Uair String", which was invented by Excel Zero before Pound 4 (And I beat him at Pound 4).

I've played King Beef, SSR, Kyon, Excel Zero, and Nicole. They pretty much agree with me.

Choice has played Peach's on the Wc like Sky`(When he used Peach) and that girl Peach (Whose name escapes me).

I theorycraft on occasion, but this matchup I've played countless times and know Wolf has a slight advantage in it.

Yeah like I'd rather talk about a MU with someone who plays it rather than not unless they overhype their character and/or don't know what they are talking about.

I don't overhype Wolf I think. I think the matchup chart is a little incorrect for his matchups, but I can't exactly go in and edit it.

I think Wolf vs Olimar is even and not Wolf's favor. I also think Wolf beats GaW and doesn't lose to him -1. I think Rob is even.

I also think Diddy is even with Wolf (Though most Wolf's will not agree with me on this one, but that's their opinions).

they must, because they opposed my (correct) viewpoint on it being a disadvantage.

IMO
-3: snake
-2.5: mk
-2: marth, falco
-1: lucario, toon link, wolf, game & watch
0: diddy, dedede, fox, pit, dk, pokemon trainer, ike, samus, zamus, rob, wario
1: pikachu, olimar, lkirby, luigi, sonic, ice climbers, sheik, yoshi
2: ness, lucas, mario, bowser, jiggs
3: zelda, falcon, ganon, link

but making your own list is pretty pointless really...its not going to change for awhile. perhaps when you get back there you can see if people want to make some changes to the chart.

Dedede as even with Peach? And Snake as -3? I think Snake isn't THAT bad for Peach. That's like Snake vs Lucas/Ness loooooool.

I don't think any Peach agrees with the Wolf rating.

Peach's are fickle.

the only reason mk is listed as -2 is because both rob and ddd also listed mk as -2. i will say that i was very involved in making mk a -2 for us but there is absolutely no reason that she should be listed as worse than ddd and rob at the matchup when she clearly isn't. ill has beaten dojo and red halberd, i have beaten seibrik and dphat...i really dont see that mu as -3. at least it isnt worse than ddd and rob.

seagull i totally agree with you. take it up with the wolves, they were totally inactive and the peach rating (which i didnt agree with and dont agree with) of even passed with no opposition.

I think Peach vs Mk can't be that bad. I see all these Peach's beating top Mk's, which makes me believe he cannot possibly beat Peach worst then -2. Otherwise, the Mk's have some matchup inexperience/problems.

Seibrik and Red halberd are in the same region as Kyon so they should have experience versing peach. They also have that dude links121 (I don't remember how to spell his name)

I used to respect you

EDIT: Why wouldnt you want to debate the Peach Wolf MU with one of the best wolf mains, who's actually pretty respected around here?