da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
real quick, doesnt mk hold wario in the air when he grabs him? thus getting the air release?
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Only if he grabs Wario out of the air or Wario presses a jump button while breaking out. Generally speaking, no, because the Wario would probably be airdodging to the ground.real quick, doesnt mk hold wario in the air when he grabs him? thus getting the air release?
I suppose it's possible, but things like Tornado make it difficult to abuse. It's about even when Wario has a decent lead and Meta Knight has to chase, but Meta Knight usually has the lead, I guess 45-55 is acceptable as it is, though I wonder if the Meta Knights I played simply weren't defensive enough.To reflex: I agree. There isn't really much I can say against it. I just wanna say though, if MK dair camps in a netural position, than you can aircamp as well, can't you? If it's even, no need to rush. You can wait for him to get a little off or something. Especially if there are platforms.
And, your post kinda agreed with the statement, it's not even, but close. You also think it's 55:45?
Maybe it does; I'm not sure. Then again, Meta Knight may as well be pivot grabbing my attacks.Doesn't it have to be a pivot grab out of the air? lol
Wario doesn't have players that travel. That's the main reason I can think of. Out of Me, Malcolm, Bassem, Fiction (does he play anymore?), Gluttony, Hungr, Blue Rogue, Masky, etc. How many of the people I named have traveled coast to coast for big tournaments? I mean you had a TON of Wario players for Genesis, but besides that tournament you tend to have whatever Wario's are present in the region.fair nuff
same question for wario--hasn't done anything in a while, prolly has better top tier MUs than olimar, why's he not around more?
same reason?
Wario's easy to use IMO, but it's hard to condition yourself to play him the right way. You have to have a LOT of restraint as a Wario player, and that's not always easy to abide by when playing him.I think so, yeah.
Don't worry, though--I've got it covered now.
I'd flip that. Wario's underrated, but he has nowhere to rise. As gay as the character can be, he just won't be better than the top 4 in this game unless something big is discovered negatively against one of them. Like if down the road we learn new CG's across the cast on Falco, or a huge banana flaw against Diddy, then yeah I could see him over the character that drops. But I doubt that will happen.Wario has a million good players. His worst match-up is MK, and beyond camping in the air, he has problems, like having high risk:high reward kill options (they either have high start up lag, or high end lag, usually).
Also, fart is awesome.
Wario is probably a little overrated.
You want some data? Ok. Do you know how many of MK's move beat Wario when he simply tries to jump from a neutral position? Do you know about the frame traps he has in the air against Wario? Or how Dtilt is safe on shield unless you are so close we can shield grab you? Or how Wario cannot punish retreated Tornado on shield unless he uses DACUS (which MK can SDI and Dair/Nair him)?At one time, the Wario:MK matchup was the hottest thing in brawl because people thought it was 50:50. I don't think Wario has a disadvantaged matchup on MK, and I don't think he's underrated. Since I'm going to get a million STFU you don't know **** comments, I'm doing research and compyling some data for a big post.
Wario's not that feasible of a character to play unless you are willing to play gay, or at the very least play more patiently. The reason is because Wario's matchups really aren't that strong when played aggressively. Wario vs Falco/IC's/MK/Dedede/TL/G&W/etc are simply not matchups you can waltz in and be like "Yo Im Wario Im bout to Dair that **** and Waft you all day son". And then people go "Dang playing Wario is hard" and I'm like well duh you're making this so much harder on yourself by playing like that.mr. 0 might just be my favorite poster on smashboards right now.
and its not in a douchy way like, 'lolz, i like to have teh laughs at his magor stupidz'
I legitamate like him a lot as a poster.
that being said, wario.
wario is really good. but trying to avoid getting grab gayed is hard as balls and when it does happen, its super demoralizing. so hes very taxing mentally to play.
and you know the golden rule of brawl, Why make it hard on yourself when you can just play metaknight.
His kill moves are pretty darn fast. Fart? Uair? Fsmash? Those come out in 12 or less frames, besides Uair if you are talking about the time it takes to get off the ground from a jump, but even then it's still fast.Wario definitely has kill power, but in a Lucas sort of way, where the moves hit hard and do their job, but either leave you wide open or take forever to start.
Also, by a little underrated, I mean it's hard to see a character who hasn't placed at like anything in the US in like forever as "top tier" as he is currently placed. Wario just isn't relevant right now. That doesn't mean I think he's bad. Wario has amazing mix-up potential and is really hard to even hit for certain characters, lol.
And fart still rocks.
Your post is so wrong, where do I begin?Well, for starters, Wario trumps MK in the air if played smart. His air dodge beats all of MK's aerials, and Wario's air speed and this allows him to literally dance around MK if you space well. Wario has okay approach options, and because MK has no aerials, yet Wario has his wheels, MK has to approach. If he tornadoes, it's punish city for you. If he uair bairs, it's also easy to beat down his approach. If he fair approaches, you can airdodge and then bair/fair. You can also time a fair to beat his when his ends. Also, MK dies from a HALF fart at 65%. GET PWNED. Mk also has a hard time killing MK, as his aerial safety and good air moves makes him hard to gimp. And, wario's dtilt beats MK's. Wario's uair also kills MK before 100%, and it also beats the flide attack, and Wario's dair can also beat out shuttle loop (somehow) if timed correctly. Wario's bair also beats MK's uair and dair if you space and time it correctly. Also, MK has no grab craps against Wario. Wario also has several really good KO moves against MK, and he is also very good at racking up damage and zoning MK. Also, MK only really has evened out the MU because he can really rack up damage really fast. Don't challenge the credibility of these statements, btw. They were taken straight from the MK MU discussion, only reworded.
Also, Da KID, why do you like me as a poster? I'm sorta curious. My first informative post in a long while, and it's not even really mine.
Edit: I, however, do think the MU is 55:45 MK. But still, that's pretty close, so yeah. But that and Marth, are, imo, Wario's only bad MU's or evem MU's. So, also, Wario has really good MU's to keep his position or bring it up even.
Some stages it definitely turns worse against Wario. Overall something like 6:4 or 65:35. He's lucky it's not a hard counter, but it's close.Believe me, it's far from even...
About 40-60 if Meta Knight is actively trying to camp you. He's probably winning.
DMG is my name, but I don't name search. Actually you can't namesearch 3 letter words anymore apparently. The * trick doesn't work anymore. Either way, I never used it much because I have a ton of thread subscriptions and that usually keeps me up to date.If only DMG could namesearch his way into here. He'd give you the ENTIRE MK:Wario MU.
... i can show you Mr. Doom vs Zetonand regarding SDI, i would much like some1 to link me a vid of socal consistently punishing TKD's fair on hit, which is just one of the examples of omg SDI > all
What tournament is this? I would like to watch them.As an aside, some videos may have been saved from the last tournament I went to. When those get critiqued, I may have more to work with.
This was kind of painful to watch.
G6 monthly in North Carolina. I played Stingers' ROB, BigLou's Diddy Kong/Meta Knight, and Kismet's Falco/Meta Knight.What tournament is this? I would like to watch them.
Thanks.G6 monthly in North Carolina. I played Stingers' ROB, BigLou's Diddy Kong/Meta Knight, and Kismet's Falco/Meta Knight.
And, thanks for this, too!It's possible to SDI Bair and Fair noticeably. Like start out in front of MK, SDI behind him. Depending on your %, you can try to punish him for it. The reason being that after mediumish %, you are stuck in lag for long enough to not really be able to punish him. It also kinda depends on where he does the move and whether he is rising or falling. It's entirely possible to SDI behind him or completely out of it, but punishment opportunities vary quite a bit from character to character, and scenario to scenario.
I think his attacks have... 3-4 frames? Im thinking 3 frames. Getting 2-3 SDI inputs from his Fair usually guarantees you get out, and I doubt I'm getting an input every single available frame although for a quick "burst" type of move like that maybe so.
control f son.DMG is my name, but I don't name search. Actually you can't namesearch 3 letter words anymore apparently. The * trick doesn't work anymore. Either way, I never used it much because I have a ton of thread subscriptions and that usually keeps me up to date.
Hmm gee, lets see, why would the SBR making a tierlist based around the LGL be bad?Regardless of if it's justified, it's ****ing pointless and stupid to make a tier list based on a ruleset that no one uses. There's NO reason to make a tier list that represents a metagame that NO ONE plays.
but the ShadowLink claimed the opposite.Reverse it
Most of the tier list was based on the current metagame instead of our ruleset.
how come, then, olimars are significantly more prevalent in the tourney environment? marth does so well against a lot of the top tier but aren't bringing him the results many think he deserves.
is marth really that much more of a difficult character at a high level?
^this. also... theres kinda very little reason to play him when you can take the easy road and go mk na mean?I think so, yeah.
wario has a million inactive AND/or players that dont travel -.-Wario has a million good players. His worst match-up is MK, and beyond camping in the air, he has problems, like having high risk:high reward kill options (they either have high start up lag, or high end lag, usually).
Also, fart is awesome.
LOOOOLi have shadowlink on ignore but every now n then view post just gives your morning that extra sunshine
truly ridiculous.
hugs stratBBR: Setting a Higher Standard for Fapping
wario is really good. but trying to avoid getting grab gayed is hard as balls and when it does happen, its super demoralizing. so hes very taxing mentally to play.
and you know the golden rule of brawl, Why make it hard on yourself when you can just play metaknight.
^this. also... theres kinda very little reason to play him when you can take the easy road and go mk na mean?
You mean, just like how much I practically **** myself laughing when people say the LGL is a necessity?i have shadowlink on ignore but every now n then view post just gives your morning that extra sunshine
truly ridiculous.
No, the SBR based it on the current metagame.So you made a tier list based on a stupid ruleset instead of the current metagame...
No.but the ShadowLink claimed the opposite.
*points at other communities*The community isn't young. We have 10 years of melee experience to guide us, and we are STILL making the same mistakes ... Like ignoring wavedashing for three years.
*stares*nice assumption there SL
wheres the proof?
Uh, what?Hey I dont doubt that its likely most smash players havent touched anything else, but going around stating it as if it is a certain fact to back up your claims is a bit much when you cant really prove it (yet).
when like 99% of tournaments are held w/ a LGL as a standard, and a large majority of players enjoy having one so that every match isnt crap- maybe they realize something you dont. maybe you know, youre the one thats wrong?You mean, just like how much I practically **** myself laughing when people say the LGL is a necessity?
=3
So does Jigglypuff and every goddamn character.Well, for starters, Wario trumps MK in the air if played smart.
An airdodge isn't an attack so it's not gonna do damage. It also doesn't beat Nado and Mk can just frame trap using a variety of moves. Wario's airspeed is good, but he can't dance around Mk. If he airddoges around and continually lands then he will get grabbed or his airddodge shenanigans will be punished severely.His air dodge beats all of MK's aerials, and Wario's air speed and this allows him to literally dance around MK if you space well.
Mk never has too approach Wario.Wario has okay approach options, and because MK has no aerials, yet Wario has his wheels, MK has to approach.
Depends on where they both are. Why would an Mk be stupid enough to ground tornado or tornado straight at someone all the time?If he tornadoes, it's punish city for you.
Cause timing Bairs versus Mk's amazing Uair is easy right? Full hop Fair is not punishable when approached. A full retreated Short hop Fair is still almost unpunishable.If he uair bairs, it's also easy to beat down his approach. If he fair approaches, you can airdodge and then bair/fair. You can also time a fair to beat his when his ends. Also, MK dies from a HALF fart at 65%. GET PWNED.
Well this is true. Mk does have a hard time killing himself and his own matchup is one of his hardest/Mk also has a hard time killing MK, as his aerial safety and good air moves makes him hard to gimp.
Mk's Dtilt has no hitstun, but if it's tripped you're royally ****ed so try and trade hits if you wanna be risky.And, wario's dtilt beats MK's.
If EVERYTHING is spaced and timed correctly then it beats everything in the game.Wario's uair also kills MK before 100%, and it also beats the flide attack, and Wario's dair can also beat out shuttle loop (somehow) if timed correctly. Wario's bair also beats MK's uair and dair if you space and time it correctly.
Grabbing Wario over the edge with Mk happens frequently so he can still have grab stuff.Also, MK has no grab craps against Wario. Wario also has several really good KO moves against MK, and he is also very good at racking up damage and zoning MK.
No, there are several other reasons it's 40-60.Also, MK only really has evened out the MU because he can really rack up damage really fast. Don't challenge the credibility of these statements, btw. They were taken straight from the MK MU discussion, only reworded.
D3 completely ***** Wario. How could you possibly forget that?????Edit: I, however, do think the MU is 55:45 MK. But still, that's pretty close, so yeah. But that and Marth, are, imo, Wario's only bad MU's or evem MU's. So, also, Wario has really good MU's to keep his position or bring it up even.