OFFICIAL AZ Power Rankings & Social Thread (Updated: 11/27/13)

[Duff0]

Hey, how does this BC business work. I've added a bunch of people and am apparently awaiting confirmation.

It says awaiting confirmation until they add you. Then you can see if each other are online or playing and stuff.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

i'm pretty sure that not only do they have to add you, but at some point you have to both be logged in at the same time to fully complete the registration. i may be wrong but i'm pretty sure that's right.

 

[Demised]

The only thing I can really say about it is i like brawl because its new. I quit melee cause i was tired of the exact same thing for years and years. Melee's fun to go back to for me every now and then but i cant get back into it like i was before. But brawl being a newer game, melee will never be near as big as it once was. Brawl will most likely become bigger than melee ever was because of melee's success, and seeing the amount of new smashers i've already met since the game released is unreal.

The topic of whats better melee or brawl is a never ending battle. Brawl has its pros and cons as well as melee.

 

[PXG]

Effort is irrelevant. The game only knows winning and losing, and if I can win consistently by spamming, then there's no reason for me to actually fight. You not beating my strategy is your problem, not mine. Also, the definition of skill is irrelevant. Skill is not measurable because the definition of it is cloudy and up to the inference of the observer. However, it makes sense to assume that a person who can win a lot at Brawl has a lot of skill in Brawl, and therefore we can assume that skill is proportional to tournament victories, since other victories are moot.

All of this assumes, of course, that you're a hardcore player who truly values winning.

But does that make you "better"? Of course, the game is only capable of determining a winner or a loser. However, human beings are capable of more in depth and abstract thought. We can put more factors into account in when making decisions. The idea of "winning at all costs" and "winning ALWAYS means your better" is such narrow and closed minded pseudo logic to me.

I hope that you agree that some characters take more skill, knowlege and effort than others. If I lose to someone who uses a character that is a counter against mine, how can you truly say my opponent is better? I could simply choose another character and start beating them, and then, they choose yet another character to beat me, and so on so forth. What I am trying to say is that, in this game, player skill is SOMEWHAT undermined by the fact that is game is based off around counters and matchups more so than its predecssor.

I admit, that because of how new this game is, its possible that because of the lack of a solid tier list, we simply do not know who is "better". As of right now, ANYTHING is possible. Brawl has only been out for nearly two months. There is still a lot to discover in this game....or maybe not. My opinions could be completely wrong or entirely correct. But this is how I see it, as of right now, from my experience.

In most cases, the better player does win. However, when there is frequent counter picking and various stages chosen, more and more factors come into play, which makes it harder to determine, who truly is better at the game. I can see, somewhat, why most competitive players have this "narrow" view. They have it, so that people can't make excuses if they lose. They created this mind set so that people won't question a person's victory. Its designed to stream line things and make matters as simple as possible. Thats good, but at the same time, its not without its flaws. To me, its to rigid and doesn't do any justice to those who really are good at the game, but who get screwed over by bull**** mechanics which the designer have so maliciously implemented . Its happened to me, and of course, all of you at one point or another.

All I am advocating and trying to get across is what I think is fair and just for competitive players of all games. I am no Brawl hater by any stetch of the imagination. I love this game. Its much better than Melee overall. I am a hardcore gamer. I play a lot of other games. Smash just happens to be one of my best ones. I've always wanted to go into game development (concept art, level design, 3D artist), and over the years, have become very critical of every game I play. I look at whats good and what could have been better, whether it be the graphics, art, controls, HUD, story, ect. What can I say, I have high expectations :D

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

PXG posts a wall of text that i don't even bother reading cause i **** him at brawl.

 

[Demised]

PXG posts a wall of text that i don't even bother reading cause i **** him at brawl.

bump bump bump bump bump. lol

 

[PXG]

PXG posts a wall of text that i don't even bother reading cause i **** him at brawl.

You don't know what a REAL wall of text is *cracks knuckles* I've written ****ing TOMES on other forums. Not rants or complaints, just a long, thought out post regarding my feelings on a particular subject that I was interested in.

And **** is word that is horrendously over used (ie "epic", "fail", "noob", "scrub", ect.). Yes, you did beat me, fair and square but you hardly "*****" me. Nobody has really has. Lets be honest with ourselves here......Anyway, I don't know, I could be taking this the wrong way. I always take people's posts too seriously. I'm not like Elvis who is always kidding around about stuff.

Actually, while I am on the subject, what DO any of you consider **** (in regards to Smash of course). Its such a vague and subjective term that has lost pretty much all of its meaning through being used so many times.

 

[Statistics]

"The idea of "winning at all costs" and "winning ALWAYS means your better" is such narrow and closed minded pseudo logic to me."

It should be mentioned that "winning at any cost" is not a good mindset to have in everything you do. That aside, it's very useful in a competitive game format. The reason that it is "logical" is because the only thing that separates winners from losers is consistency. If someone beats you by a coin flip (you tripped), or a mistake you don't make often, of course you'll dispute the results, but you should be able to beat him/her later if you actually are the better player.

"I hope that you agree that some characters take more skill, knowlege and effort than others. If I lose to someone who uses a character that is a counter against mine, how can you truly say my opponent is better?... What I am trying to say is that, in this game, player skill is SOMEWHAT undermined by the fact that is game is based off around counters and matchups more so than its predecssor."

Snake is hard to pickup, sure. No noob is gonna come to Vat-0's house and smash face without having a good foundation of strategy. That said, "strategy" is a construct; it's completely in our heads and the game has no grasp of it. Why is Toon Link's projectile spam effective? Most of the answers are human contrivances and as such no character has an excuse for not being able to get around it, since the game gives all characters the tools to do so. Also, strategy has everything to do with the format of the game. Specifically, if a game is formatted as best-of-three 3-stock rounds, then a good strategy should include tactics for all 3 rounds, including character selection. In this way, you might say that player skill in this game is not undermined by counter-picking, but rather is an additional, complementary skill that all players need. Indeed, the format of a game is often why the better player often wins.

"To me, its to rigid and doesn't do any justice to those who really are good at the game, but who get screwed over by bull**** mechanics which the designer have so maliciously implemented"

Bad game design aside, how do you know who's really good at this game?

By the way, I have no intention of starting a flame war or anything. Rather, I think this is a very interesting discussion because it persists in the communities of all games that have multiplayer!

 

[KosukeKGA]

I see, thank you Demised... and Shiva.

I'll stay quiet about the subject about Brawl vs. Melee from now on.

 

[Northbound]

Wow too many big posts. I think i will sum it all up by saying... learn2play. Stop comparing melee to brawl.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Btw guys, that post I quoted was a direct reply from Mew2King and his opinion on Brawl. Credibility is too high.

Also, Ike was my brawl avatar. Now it has changed back to the good old Koopa Paratroopa from Melee.

 

[Nicknyte]

WTF Melee and Brawl is based off luck. Like, Look at my ****ing main character below my post. MISFIRES ARE THE SHEET.

 

[PXG]

"The idea of "winning at all costs" and "winning ALWAYS means your better" is such narrow and closed minded pseudo logic to me."

It should be mentioned that "winning at any cost" is not a good mindset to have in everything you do. That aside, it's very useful in a competitive game format. The reason that it is "logical" is because the only thing that separates winners from losers is consistency. If someone beats you by a coin flip (you tripped), or a mistake you don't make often, of course you'll dispute the results, but you should be able to beat him/her later if you actually are the better player.

"I hope that you agree that some characters take more skill, knowlege and effort than others. If I lose to someone who uses a character that is a counter against mine, how can you truly say my opponent is better?... What I am trying to say is that, in this game, player skill is SOMEWHAT undermined by the fact that is game is based off around counters and matchups more so than its predecssor."

Snake is hard to pickup, sure. No noob is gonna come to Vat-0's house and smash face without having a good foundation of strategy. That said, "strategy" is a construct; it's completely in our heads and the game has no grasp of it. Why is Toon Link's projectile spam effective? Most of the answers are human contrivances and as such no character has an excuse for not being able to get around it, since the game gives all characters the tools to do so. Also, strategy has everything to do with the format of the game. Specifically, if a game is formatted as best-of-three 3-stock rounds, then a good strategy should include tactics for all 3 rounds, including character selection. In this way, you might say that player skill in this game is not undermined by counter-picking, but rather is an additional, complementary skill that all players need. Indeed, the format of a game is often why the better player often wins.

"To me, its to rigid and doesn't do any justice to those who really are good at the game, but who get screwed over by bull**** mechanics which the designer have so maliciously implemented"

Bad game design aside, how do you know who's really good at this game?

By the way, I have no intention of starting a flame war or anything. Rather, I think this is a very interesting discussion because it persists in the communities of all games that have multiplayer!

That is a good point, which I made mention to in my last post. Its a simplified (and almost entirely) accurate mindset that DOES determine who is better. The better player does (most of the time) win. Like I said earlier, if I win 19 out of 20 matches against you (of course on standard competitive rules in effect) then it should be abundantly clear that I am better.

Look at a Halo. If someone camped with the sword and shotty, and won, does that make them better, as opposed to someone who is skilled with EVERY weapon and consistently gets head shots and multi-kills? I know its extremely risky to do cross genre comparisons. But again, this is about competitive gameplay in general. Anyway, in a game like Halo, there are more factors that come into play:

map
weapon spawning
player re-spawning
lag
chance of coming in contact with other players

I was just trying to make a point (for multiplayer games in general) that this simplified logic isn't always correct. A player's consistency is a very good way at determining who is better. However, factors, such as character mathups (which Brawl has more emphasis on than its predecessor), stage and questionable tactics are things that are left out in this system. The game isn't able to put them into account, but people are. What I don't like is narrow thinking. But I DO understand that this, said, isolated thought is i in place, in order to ensure fairness and prevent people from making too many excuses. Its all very complicated....

Wow too many big posts. I think i will sum it all up by saying... learn2play. Stop comparing melee to brawl.

If you bothered reading our posts,, you would know that that AREN'T Melee/ Brawl comparisions. This is a discussion about competitive gameplay in general, but using Brawl as an example. If you nothing to contribute to an intelligent discussion, then please refrain from posting this tl;dr crap. Just don't say anything at all. Don't ruin it for those who are interested in the topic. Thank you.

 

[AZenith]

"Don't get grabbed" is all that can be said to this.

I guess I should of been more clear though, infinite chain grabbing to death is what I was more so talking about. Anyways, you know this is nothing compared to melee chain grabbing. This game is 10 times slower and has 10 times the grabbing opportunities than in melee, so saying "don't get grabbed" is just a bull**** excuse to be a cheap ***ot. Thats OK though, if you enjoy playing a game that loses the majority of its strategy and forces players to only pick certain characters then fine, go ahead and support that kind of game, just don't come back here complaining when some Ice Climbers 3 stocks you using their 10 different infinite chain grab options. My opinion is that anyone relying on that type of play style to win is really pathetic, I don't give **** who you are and how good you are without using it, it's just a sad way to win anyway I look at it.

 

[Duff0]

I'm seriously thinking about hosting a couple small tourneys (brawl and melee) and I was wondering who would like to come. If you didn't know already, I'm way out away from most of you guys. Mapquest my zip code to get a general idea. 85050. Tell me if you guys are interested....

 

[KosukeKGA]

In fact AZenith, not only is it sad, it's kinda boring too... :|

Yes yes, "play to win." I know. But still.... Bleh.

WTF Melee and Brawl is based off luck. Like, Look at my ****ing main character below my post. MISFIRES ARE THE SHEET.

A misfire isn't game-breaking at all. At times, it can put you at a disadvantage.

 

[ValorInVendetta]

Aside from the arguing over brawl, tournament at pima in tucson today was awesome. Had a bit of a slow start but it was effective.

Notable entrants:
Jetfour
2D
Valor
GamerGuitarist
NickNyte
PXG

GG took first, Jetfour with second, Valor(myself) third, and 2D came in fourth.

Overall, really awesome smash session. Thursday weeklies at the U of A are going to be lame in comparison

 

[Duff0]

Hmm, how much did first place get?

 

[ValorInVendetta]

$3 entry, prizes were in giftcards which was kinda lame

First: $50
Second: $20
Third: $10

 

[Duff0]

Oh, giftcards always suck =/..

At least it was reasonable profit XD

 

[PXG]

I had a lot of fun and learned a lot from playing you guys. I need to play to play you more, but I'm too lazy to walk over there. Right now, I'm Brawled out. Gonna watch some Outlaw Star! :D

Oh congrats GG on your victory!

 

[In2D]

And congrats to GG on finding the most awesome crew to play in, welcome to Team O9K =P. Still just need one more T-loc to join.

Also, I decided that running tournaments is so much fun since I was able to run that one today and will be running many more next year when I have a house to host them at.

 

[ValorInVendetta]

We all had some great matches today. Yet AGAIN, GG and I remain at a split of 1 to 1.

So like 2D said, 09K has four members now after the addition of GG. One more and we'll be ready for the OneTwo in Phoenix this summer.

I'm really glad to see that Tucson is picking up with Brawl activity. We're getting together once and twice a week now. Anyone who is in the area is welcome to stop by, just let 2D or I know in advance.

 

[jetfour]

boobies > brawl

 

[Wobbles]

You know, people complain about roll campers and move spammers in Brawl. I'm not having a problem dealing with any of that, and I get to enjoy fighting against it a lot. I have zero problem three stocking people who play this way, so it's nice to have matches which basically account for byes in my bracket.

If you know what's coming, why don't you just try and figure out a way around it instead of complain? Projectile spam? Powershield it. Rolls? Follow them with dashes. Airdodges? Predict them. Noob spamming random moves? Just wait outside of his range and then punish lag. Tired of getting hit out of your "combos"? Stop trying to do them and adapt. If you're losing to stuff like this, it's not because the game is bad and you're really the "better player." IIRC, we had a saying in Melee that went:

NO JOHNS.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

thanks guys. big props to my fellow crew members for taking 2nd, 3rd, and 4th below me the tourney was fun and i'm glad i got to play you guys. it was awesome.

So, Team 09K, or O9K, and explain the background of it to me please?

And 0/O9K is going to **** some **** at azonetwostep.

 

[In2D]

We watched the DBZ over 9000 video so many times, and we were coming up with names during spring break, and we decided on O(over) 9(nine) K(thousand) with a team in front of it to make it epic,

TEAM O9K *****ES! =D

Oh and the UA semester tourney is finally coming to an end with a prize of 100 or so dollars at the end of it on thursday where Team O9K plans to place 1 2 and 3.

*Waits for nicknyte to say we suck and that he will win it*

 

[PXG]

Nicknoob is in Sierra Vista at the moment watching Scar Face. No joke. Call him right now.

 

[In2D]

I was just waiting for his post I believe that hes there, im sure tomorrow or something he will say that on the forums.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

oh man, Team O9K is a kickass name. I love that ****ing 'over 9000' video that kajetokun did on youtube.

My fav part is the 'Vegeta, vegeta, vegeta, vegeta" part where the screen keeps flipping. "What's the scouter say about his *beep*" ITS OVER NINETHOUSAND!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TBtpyeLxVkI (not rickroll, over 9000 video that i'm talking about)

 

[In2D]

I've never heard of that video of which you speak, haha.

I really can't wait til AZonetwo to play some doubles crew and single matches, should be good ****.

 

[ValorInVendetta]

I wonder if we could organize a strictly crew tournament in Tucson anytime soon. Just a thought, but anyone who is interested should speak up. The biggest thing is that we'd need a venue...

 

[KosukeKGA]

If you can't beat them... join them...

...

...I will take you all down.

 

[In2D]

minus myself whom you failed to beat at goops, muhahaha!

 

[KosukeKGA]

Lol, true. It was pretty close in both matches, though. I remember you sighing in relief.

I will better my game. Mark my words.

 

[In2D]

haha yeah, they were fun, I didnt have any expectations going into that tourney, then i just kept winning and so I was happy. We've all bettered our game I believe and the next tourney will be alot closer.

 

[Elysium]

You know, people complain about roll campers and move spammers in Brawl. I'm not having a problem dealing with any of that, and I get to enjoy fighting against it a lot. I have zero problem three stocking people who play this way, so it's nice to have matches which basically account for byes in my bracket.

If you know what's coming, why don't you just try and figure out a way around it instead of complain? Projectile spam? Powershield it. Rolls? Follow them with dashes. Airdodges? Predict them. Noob spamming random moves? Just wait outside of his range and then punish lag. Tired of getting hit out of your "combos"? Stop trying to do them and adapt. If you're losing to stuff like this, it's not because the game is bad and you're really the "better player." IIRC, we had a saying in Melee that went:

NO JOHNS.

The post of of Gods right here!

And to give my insight K, I haven't played Melee since I got Brawl. Not because I dislike Melee...but to be completely honest I wasn't very good at it. I had mucho mucho fun spending hours at Goops getting stomped match after match but it was still fun. I Play Brawl because it's different. Melee was Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth and Peach...unless you were messing around or came across someone who actually mained someone other than the high tiers. Brawl has a bit more variety when you play...and I don't have to drive an hour to play someone. lol

I've played Brawl so much the gameplay isn't "slow" anymore, it just seems normal. Depending on the character, there's some Advance tech to learn, and the wide variety of character usage keeps things fun and unpredictable.

If I went to a smashfest and they had a GC set up with Melee, I would still sit down and get beat and have a good time, I have nothing against it...Brawl is just refreshing to me..still.

At least thats how I feel about it...

 

[ChaosTheory]

Melee was Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth and Peach...

Why does EVERYBODY that wasn't good at melee say that?

Edit: This was Corey, my bad Trent.

 

[Elysium]

Or not read the second half of that...?

I'm well aware that more characters are used than just those 5 that I specifically listed, which is why I added that second part.

 

[Corigames]

Melee was Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth and Peach...unless you were messing around or came across someone who actually mained someone other than the high tiers.

IF I include that, it just makes you look like you said, "The situation is either true or false."