Official "Ask Snakeee Stuff... about Stuff" Thread

[FreakingMethodiC]

Yeah, I'm going. See you there?

And, I use Sheik/Zelda or Peach for certain match ups, and sometimes on certain stages.

Match up wise: Falco - Sheik/Zelda, Diddy Kong - Peach, Donkey Kong - Zelda? (not sure yet, but I stink against Bum with ZSS ), Wolf - Sheik/Zelda, Fox - Sheik/Zelda, ZSS - Sheik/Zelda...or Peach actually

Stage wise: Delphino - Sheik/Zelda, Halberd - Sheik/Zelda, Frigate - Peach, Smashville - Sheik/Zelda, Japes (if allowed) - Peach

There's a little more than these, but that's what's off the top of my head.

Funny, except for Falco isn't ZSS supposed to have an advantage vs spacies? But then again i assume Shiek/zelda also works.

 

[Snakeee]

Funny, except for Falco isn't ZSS supposed to have an advantage vs spacies? But then again i assume Shiek/zelda also works.

Not really. Technically she does against Fox, but like I said against a top Fox player that knows the match up, it may actually become Fox's favor. Rookie is the only one that plays the match up well enough that I know of right now though.
Wolf has always been a problem for me as ZSS. It's usually too risky to try the chain on him, because he can punish it pretty easily. Plus even if you do pull it off, it's not an instant stock like on Fox and you can only do it at really low percent.

And, I used to think ZSS was bottom of high tier, but now I think she may be the very top of mid tier. Either way, she's almost completely viable for tourney.

 

[Rayku]

Would you be interested in helping me learn Zero Suit Samus through AIM one day?

 

[Jupz]

What can you do to get better with ZSS if all your friends that play brawl are on holiday? Like against CPUs and stuff?

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

What can you do to get better with ZSS if all your friends that play brawl are on holiday? Like against CPUs and stuff?

Computers make for bad habits.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah, but there must be something I can do to practice

 

[lil cj]

And, I used to think ZSS was bottom of high tier, but now I think she may be the very top of mid tier. Either way, she's almost completely viable for tourney.

Why do you think she's mid tier?
She seems like an almost perfect character
Combos, range,speed,great recovery, can survive to high percentages(w/ down b momentum canceling), and her stuns sets up for a free KO

Since Ive been using her Ive only seen a few flaws
and they are nothing too bad
Light weight is nothin serious
Just look at MK and G&W
Is there something else wrong with her?

The only reason she's not top or high tier already is because she doesnt have alot of representation in tournies

I dont know why people dont use her...even though she has a steep learning curve its worth it if the character is good

Look at Snake and Diddy both are very difficult to learn and look at the results...they are one of the best characters in the game.

Im just sayin

 

[cba]

Its not only the low Rep but there are Quite a few Chars to Counter her.


Btw, i think the Marth matchup is 50-50 OR 55-45 Marth.

 

[noradseven]

Why do you think she's mid tier?
She seems like an almost perfect character
Combos, range,speed,great recovery, can survive to high percentages(w/ down b momentum canceling), and her stuns sets up for a free KO

Since Ive been using her Ive only seen a few flaws
and they are nothing too bad
Light weight is nothin serious
Just look at MK and G&W
Is there something else wrong with her?

The only reason she's not top or high tier already is because she doesnt have alot of representation in tournies

I dont know why people dont use her...even though she has a steep learning curve its worth it if the character is good

Look at Snake and Diddy both are very difficult to learn and look at the results...they are one of the best characters in the game.

Im just sayin

Your silly G&W bucket allows him to live far better than us, and ZSS is a good bit lighter than MK, and has a much bigger hitbox.

ZSS's moves are snipers they beat almost everything else, and come out fast, but you are often vulnerable if you miss or if they even powershield.

The main problem people have in learning ZSS is going OMG she has this whip is so good(no where near as good as people think). Combos omg, most real combos are off the down smash, though their are a few off of some other moves neutral air, but they require specific setups, and only do maybe 25%. If you want to get good at ZSS, you gotta learn how to use both hits of the whip, and get really good at her melee game, this goes from everything from her tilts, to jab, and aireals, that is where she really excels, for some reason people think its all based off of some combos or the whip or something.

Seriously watch one of snakes or cake or pretty much any decent ZSS's matches, don't watch the highlights, most of the time, they arn't doing combos, also watch which moves hit the most, the whip and d-smash are fear.

edit: wait so you can down B momentum cancel, ohh well it would be a dumb idea to get in the habit because you would probably die anyways.

 

[Snakeee]

Your silly G&W bucket allows him to live far better than us, and ZSS is a good bit lighter than MK, and has a much bigger hitbox.

ZSS's moves are snipers they beat almost everything else, and come out fast, but you are often vulnerable if you miss or if they even powershield.

The main problem people have in learning ZSS is going OMG she has this whip is so good(no where near as good as people think). Combos omg, most real combos are off the down smash, though their are a few off of some other moves neutral air, but they require specific setups, and only do maybe 25%. If you want to get good at ZSS, you gotta learn how to use both hits of the whip, and get really good at her melee game, this goes from everything from her tilts, to jab, and aireals, that is where she really excels, for some reason people think its all based off of some combos or the whip or something.

Seriously watch one of snakes or cake or pretty much any decent ZSS's matches, don't watch the highlights, most of the time, they arn't doing combos, also watch which moves hit the most, the whip and d-smash are fear.

edit: wait so you can down B momentum cancel, ohh well it would be a dumb idea to get in the habit because you would probably die anyways.

Well actually Metaknight is lighter than ZSS.

And to answer the original question, she is quite an unbalanced character. She has some strengths that other characters do not have, but she also has some glaring weaknesses. A lot of it is match up specific. To name a couple, her close range game can either be incredible or terrible depending on the opponents speed usually in shield grabbing. She can be a great camper on a few characters, but if the opponent is fast, has good range, or the worst one - is the better camper she's in trouble

 

[cba]

Your silly G&W bucket allows him to live far better than us, and ZSS is a good bit lighter than MK, and has a much bigger hitbox.

Not Lighter than MK.

She can be a great camper on a few characters, but if the opponent is fast, has good range, or the worst one - is the better camper she's in trouble

Yes, Camping is good with her.
If you camp Wrong your opponent can see a loophole in your pattern and punish you badly.
DO NOT ALWAYS OPT FOR SH PLASMA WHIP!

I have been punished BADLY cause they time their approach so that they're withing range of hitting me while plasma whipping.
there is this a blind spot between the plasma whip where she cant hit and get hit..right?

Or i may be confusing it w/ the ending lag...

This weekly i fought a MK and Got Owned.
I am NOT scared of a MK in RC.

 

[Zaffy]

Can i ask, how come when i do plasma whip, sometimes completely randomly, my opponent will be standing in the middle of the whip and not get hit?

It has screwed me over so many times.

 

[kuenzel]

Can i ask, how come when i do plasma whip, sometimes completely randomly, my opponent will be standing in the middle of the whip and not get hit?

It has screwed me over so many times.

The whip has a blindspot. I'd describe where, but since you said it's happened to you you probably know where.

 

[noradseven]

Can i ask, how come when i do plasma whip, sometimes completely randomly, my opponent will be standing in the middle of the whip and not get hit?

It has screwed me over so many times.

The whip has a HUEG blind spot.

The whip is divided into two hits one is a square and a small rectangle on top of each that is the fist and gun, and a bit in front of it sorta, its pretty small but you can punch through projectiles with it and hit the oppenent with the second hit.

The second hit is a giant square ITS NOT A CIRCLE, it is around the same size slightly bigger than the animation in terms of width and height, but its a square so it is a lot bigger on diagonals than it looks.

Everything between their is just dead and its in two hits, so be careful.

Its good to note that on the majority of the cast if they slide far enough/have a big enough hit box. Not only can you hit them with both hits of the whiff but that you can do it on block as well, though for some people the spacing has to be perfect.

Well actually Metaknight is lighter than ZSS.

And to answer the original question, she is quite an unbalanced character. She has some strengths that other characters do not have, but she also has some glaring weaknesses. A lot of it is match up specific. To name a couple, her close range game can either be incredible or terrible depending on the opponents speed usually in shield grabbing. She can be a great camper on a few characters, but if the opponent is fast, has good range, or the worst one - is the better camper she's in trouble

Really I thought ZSS was third lightest, they did some knockback test here in smashboards.
The second from what I heard lightest G&W is pretty much invalid because of silly bucket braking.

Or is this after calculating in perfect DIing.

 

[noradseven]

edit:double post.

 

[Snakeee]

No ZSS was the 7th lightest or something, I don't remember exactly

 

[shlike]

Not really. Technically she does against Fox, but like I said against a top Fox player that knows the match up, it may actually become Fox's favor. Rookie is the only one that plays the match up well enough that I know of right now though.
Wolf has always been a problem for me as ZSS. It's usually too risky to try the chain on him, because he can punish it pretty easily. Plus even if you do pull it off, it's not an instant stock like on Fox and you can only do it at really low percent.

And, I used to think ZSS was bottom of high tier, but now I think she may be the very top of mid tier. Either way, she's almost completely viable for tourney.

I used to think the same way man, I used to be behind zss 100%, but after failing at whobo ( mostly against diddy players ) i decided to pick up some other chars.

Although she is RIDICULOUSLY unbalanced she is still MEGA fun to play

 

[cba]

Can i ask, how come when i do plasma whip, sometimes completely randomly, my opponent will be standing in the middle of the whip and not get hit?

It has screwed me over so many times.

I have been punished BADLY cause they time their approach so that they're withing range of hitting me while plasma whipping.
there is this a blind spot between the plasma whip where she cant hit and get hit..right?

this.
reed posts!1!!!!1121@#121

 

[shlike]

this.
reed posts!1!!!!1121@#121

dude short hop retreating side b's are nearly unpunishable depending ( they can ps them if they can time it right, but even then you can jump away or grab or w/e, i use them as a pressuring tool really) on which char your up against

 

[xxDKxx]

Yeah, I'm going. See you there?

I'll most likely be there. Hopefully i can get some friendlies in with you :D



Sometimes when i Up-B the whip comes out and it doesn't latch onto the ledge. Is there a reason it's doing this? I'm guessing it's just because since i'm falling I get out of range of the ledge but not sure.

 

[shlike]

it depends how far your are away from it, and if youre away diagonally from it make sure your joystick is diagonal to the ledge when you up-b

 

[nooaaa]

this is not really zss realated it's more my gameplay but i have a problem i roll to much so i get proditable then when i stop rolling i get punisht after i let go of shield any suggestions how to keep defens up and im not good at making walls....

 

[noradseven]

this is not really zss realated it's more my gameplay but i have a problem i roll to much so i get proditable then when i stop rolling i get punisht after i let go of shield any suggestions how to keep defens up and im not good at making walls....

Side step, shorthop dodge, jab???

 

[nooaaa]

Side step, shorthop dodge, jab???

i'm no fan of shorthop dodge and the rest i use but i will train on using shorthop dodge

 

[nooaaa]

i found that short hop dodge behind them and then down b to the other side with a kick suprised them do it can get prodictable but thanks. I learn....

 

[noradseven]

i found that short hop dodge behind them and then down b to the other side with a kick suprised them do it can get prodictable but thanks. I learn....

It does but it works better as a counter attack, and you should only do the kick part if you are pretty sure they will not block/dodge most players are expecting it.

 

[Hence]

Snakeee, I haven't been here in a while, but I'm going to start posting regularly again. My understanding of the game has improved dramatically from when I was complaining about a Kirby matchup (if you remember).

In reference to a set of matches with your fellow Imperial Era crewmate, Crismas:
I don't believe I had seen your ZSS in singles since your match with Bum. Earlier in the year you talked about a stretegy of fast falling U-Airs on grounded opponents. My question is this: Because the angle of an U-Air requires extreme precision on small characters, how should I cope with missing?

Also, a downward angled F-Tilt (or possibly horizontally angled as well) worked quite nicely into a thee hit jab combo against Peach. An example of it being used was whilst edgeguarding (backwards falling F-Air with the choice to Jab a normal get up or F-Tilt a roll). I've noticed that against MK, this doesn't prove to work in the same fashion. Have you noticed what characters F-Tilt > Jab works well against?

By the way, the second hit of ZSS' F-Air and a backwards U-Air will both break MT. o.O

 

[Snakeee]

Snakeee, I haven't been here in a while, but I'm going to start posting regularly again. My understanding of the game has improved dramatically from when I was complaining about a Kirby matchup (if you remember).

In reference to a set of matches with your fellow Imperial Era crewmate, Crismas:
I don't believe I had seen your ZSS in singles since your match with Bum. Earlier in the year you talked about a stretegy of fast falling U-Airs on grounded opponents. My question is this: Because the angle of an U-Air requires extreme precision on small characters, how should I cope with missing?

Also, a downward angled F-Tilt (or possibly horizontally angled as well) worked quite nicely into a thee hit jab combo against Peach. An example of it being used was whilst edgeguarding (backwards falling F-Air with the choice to Jab a normal get up or F-Tilt a roll). I've noticed that against MK, this doesn't prove to work in the same fashion. Have you noticed what characters F-Tilt > Jab works well against?


By the way, the second hit of ZSS' F-Air and a backwards U-Air will both break MT. o.O

I'm findind f-tilt - jabs really useful lately. I kind of ended up doing that without even realizing it though lol. Well, I know that it should work for the same reason the jab combo works on certain characters so it should be easier to do on the characters that have slower shield grabs like G&W. After the f-tilt hits their shield you should be able to do the first jab before their grab comes out.
...Wait a second. This may also work if the opponent's shield grab has very little range. That may have been the case vs. Peach, but I'm not entirely sure. ZSS' jab has more misleadingly decent range, so it's not too hard to link it after an f-tilt.

And, are you sure about that last part? I'll try it but maybe you hit it as the tornado was starting? If not, then you may have had to hit that precise part of the tornado that apparently breaks like glass. I'm going to look into hitting that exact point too btw.

And it wasn't Imperial Era, it was Phoenix Era. Phoenix Era is pretty much disbanding now though.

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm findind f-tilt - jabs really useful lately. I kind of ended up doing that without even realizing it though lol.

On the topic of jabs, I've been noticing that I tend to get all three hits of the combo if I space it right, and my opponent is airborne. It doesn't work on characters with invincibility on their first frames, but otherwise, it's really good. I use it a lot against NC-Echo's Olimar, and it seems like he can't shield it or Whistle Armor through the third hit.

And he can Whistle Armor through some dumb stuff.

What's your take on this?

 

[Hence]

On the topic of jabs, I've been noticing that I tend to get all three hits of the combo if I space it right, and my opponent is airborne. It doesn't work on characters with invincibility on their first frames, but otherwise, it's really good. I use it a lot against NC-Echo's Olimar, and it seems like he can't shield it or Whistle Armor through the third hit.

And he can Whistle Armor through some dumb stuff.

What's your take on this?

Your opponent can't sheild when they're airborne.
ZSS' Jab is faster than an airdodge, I'd presume. Even if your opponent managed to airdodge the third jab, you could likely hit them with another jab combonation or tilt(depending on their DI and how quickly their airdodge resets them).

 

[Snakeee]

On the topic of jabs, I've been noticing that I tend to get all three hits of the combo if I space it right, and my opponent is airborne. It doesn't work on characters with invincibility on their first frames, but otherwise, it's really good. I use it a lot against NC-Echo's Olimar, and it seems like he can't shield it or Whistle Armor through the third hit.

And he can Whistle Armor through some dumb stuff.

What's your take on this?

YES, I do that a lot, and use it in some pretty interesting ways now.
Sometimes I will just hold A as my opponent is going to try to land and they fall into it

It's really great that even if they are just a slight bit off the ground, the jabs before almost unstoppable unless your opponent has an instant move with superarmor.

 

[Jayce]

I have two questions that have probably already been asked so I'll apologize in advance.

1) Which characters do you feel that ZSS has the most trouble with, and

2) Which characters do you feel have the best matchups against your answer(s) to question #1?

I'm thinking that i'd want to use a second character every once in a while, but I don't really like using anyone else, so I'll go for function over flavor.

 

[Snakeee]

I have two questions that have probably already been asked so I'll apologize in advance.

1) Which characters do you feel that ZSS has the most trouble with, and

2) Which characters do you feel have the best matchups against your answer(s) to question #1?

I'm thinking that i'd want to use a second character every once in a while, but I don't really like using anyone else, so I'll go for function over flavor.

Well it's okay to go over this question every once in a while because my opinion on it changes every so often.

1) Falco, Luigi, Metaknight, Diddy, Snake, Wolf, Pit

2) Besides the obvious against the lower tiers:
Kirby, Mr. Game & Watch, ROB

 

[Red Arremer]

The question probably has already been asked, but I haven't read all ~60 pages.

So, what do you think about the FSmash, Snakeee?

 

[Snakeee]

The question probably has already been asked, but I haven't read all ~60 pages.

So, what do you think about the FSmash, Snakeee?

It's sooo bad it's not even funny. I've never seen something that made any less sense before giving the character a Side B that can KO, yet giving that character a F-smash that is infinitely worse o_O.

Well, the only time I ever use it, and this is really rare anyway, is to use it the way Metaknights' (mostly M2K) bait their own smashes after a juggle. If I'm really certain the opponent is going to airdodge and land right in front of me after a juggle, I may charge an f-smash.

 

[Hence]

Albeit a stupid question, I'm going to ask anyway.
I've never been able to backwards glidetoss, yet I've seen you and Dazwa do it constantly.
What must you do differently in order to glidetoss from behind? Additionally, why does a normal glidetoss work in the same way for the other three cardinal directions?

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

She cant do a backwards glide toss. She does a forward glide toss while throwing back.

 

[Hence]

She cant do a backwards glide toss. She does a forward glide toss while throwing back.

Explain please.

 

[ph00tbag]

Explain please.

If you time it right, you can initiate a dash backwards, but turn it into a roll by pressing R in the first few frames. Thus you do a forwards glide toss while throwing behind you.

 

[Hence]

If you time it right, you can initiate a dash backwards, but turn it into a roll by pressing R in the first few frames. Thus you do a forwards glide toss while throwing behind you.

OH!

Thank you, Ph00tbag.
I'm going to now attempt to practice this glide toss.