Official Ask Anyone Frame Things Thread

[Vestboy_Myst]

How far along in the turnip pull (29 frames) does peach have to be so that she retains the turnip in her hand after getting hit during the animation?

As far as i know there are three outcomes:
- totally interrupted, no turnip comes out
- turnip drops to ground with active hitbox
- peach interrupted but retains turnip in hand during kb

the second one may be caused by her tendency to drop a turnip randomly when she gets hit (someone said it happens 1/10 times once, anyone have a better number for that?)

 

[Bones0]

How far along in the turnip pull (29 frames) does peach have to be so that she retains the turnip in her hand after getting hit during the animation?

As far as i know there are three outcomes:
- totally interrupted, no turnip comes out
- turnip drops to ground with active hitbox
- peach interrupted but retains turnip in hand during kb

the second one may be caused by her tendency to drop a turnip randomly when she gets hit (someone said it happens 1/10 times once, anyone have a better number for that?)

Really interesting fact: Mr. Saturn gets pulled SOONER than turnips (I'd guess all the other items do too). In the instance I pulled it, Peach only got to frame 18 before getting hit it didn't disappear, but turnip pulls (including stitches) actually don't go through until frame 29 (i.e. the move has to finish).

A few brief trials of dropping (just did Marth jab; didn't pay attention to % or spacing):
1. 1/10
2. 2/10
3. 1/10
4. 0/10
5. 1/10

The random 10% seems like a promising theory.

 

[CAUP]

I'm pretty darn positive peach doesn't have to be completely through her animation for a turnip to be pulled.

 

[Rachman]

Are there any images of exactly how low and far away Falcon can be to still grab the ledge with forward facing/rev up b and/or DJ? If not, how could I know I was getting as close to a "sweetspot" as possible if I wanted to set this up and screenshot it? Any good ways to do this?

Is the frame for being able to FF arbitrary or is it actually just at the apex of the short hop? Perhaps my testing was faulty but it seemed like it could actually be after the apex by a frame or two? Are you just simply able to fast fall the frame AFTER the apex of your short hop? Also, only a frame perfect aerial (input on the first airborne frame) causes the instant gravity phenomenon correct?

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[Sycorax]

Does anybody know the details behind why knockback is changed when attacking an opponent that's lying on the ground? Is hitstun affected as well or is it similar to meteor smashing a grounded opponent?

I don't think it is changed. I tested it Magus's physics mod. As Marth, I dthrew a fox and then sourspot fsmashed him. He was in DownWaitU. I recorded the F2 KB Velocity. Then I killed him to send him back to 0%. I pressed up on the dpad to zoom the camera making Fox's percent increment up to 5%. Then I sourspot fsmashed him in Wait again and recorded the F2 KB Velocity. They were the same.

 

[Kadano]

Does anybody know the details behind why knockback is changed when attacking an opponent that's lying on the ground? Is hitstun affected as well or is it similar to meteor smashing a grounded opponent?

I think you mean this: http://smashboards.com/posts/9872129

Second paragraph within the quote.

 

[Dr. Cannon]

Is there a certain type of controller that's better for z-powershielding? Also, is there a good way to tell if you are digital pressing and pressing z on the same frame?

 

[tauKhan]

I can't see controller type having much impact. I find it easier to z-ps with light shield disabled from trigger though.

Unfortunately it usually isn't easy to tell whether you succeeded in the simultaneous z+digital press, since normal shield is invisible frame 1-2. If you press digital first, the visible ps sphere is smaller, but it's kinda hard to even see that. Pressing z first and digital after has no visual difference I believe. I recommend practicing the input with character with which it's very hard to powershield otherwise, for example dk. Dk's dash back ps on falco lasers is hard, though possible with regular ps, but it becomes super easy if you succeed in z-psing.

 

[Kadano]

Is there a certain type of controller that's better for z-powershielding? Also, is there a good way to tell if you are digital pressing and pressing z on the same frame?

Taking out the spring of the trigger you want to Z-PS with or at least decreasing the analog length will definitely help, and so will perforating the rubber plate (unless it already has little resistance).

The only way I know to tell whether you got Z-PS for sure is to practice it in develop mode with hitboxes on, recording the gameplay in 60 fps and watching the footage afterwards.

 

[tauKhan]

You can practice on some slanted stage and stand lower than falco shooting lasers, so that it's impossible for normal ps sphere to reach the lasers, but z-ps still works.

 

[Rachman]

How does Falcon's Up-B work? Does it increase max horizontal air speed? Why does reverse up b drift so much less than forward Up-B? All that good stuff, has anyone worked to figure that out yet?

 

[Espi]

I'm looking for info regarding throw invincibility because I want to start applying to doubles. Does anyone have frame data/general info about it?

 

[Kadano]

I'm looking for info regarding throw invincibility because I want to start applying to doubles. Does anyone have frame data/general info about it?

Invincibility: 1-8

http://smashboards.com/threads/detailed-throws-techs-and-getups-frame-data.206469/

 

[orvs]

not really a frame data question - more to do with hitboxes and hurtboxes, but i want to just confirm if this is 100% true.

so when fox tries to sweetspot the ledge when recovering (either by doing an illusion or a double jump), can falco's down smash prevent the sweetspot? i heard somewhere in a video that it can

 

[schmooblidon]

not really a frame data question - more to do with hitboxes and hurtboxes, but i want to just confirm if this is 100% true.

so when fox tries to sweetspot the ledge when recovering (either by doing an illusion or a double jump), can falco's down smash prevent the sweetspot? i heard somewhere in a video that it can

not if the fox sweetspots well enough. http://imgur.com/a/P6CNM#0 this shows foxs perfect sweetspots against marios attacks, falco dsmash will be about as low as dtilt in the img.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[tauKhan]

Can anybody explain to me Jigglypuff's drill? Master Hand is telling me there are 4 hitboxes but I only see 2, even when rotating the camera and stuff.

Two of the hitboxes hit only aerial opponents, while the other two only grounded ones. They are positioned identically and are of the same size, so you can only see two different bubbles. However the hitboxes hitting grounded opponents send at 270°, while the aerial hitting hitboxes send upwards, don't remember angle right now. IIRC the grounded hitting hitboxes are stronger as well.

There are actually quite a lot of these moves which have different properties depending on whether they hit aerial or grounded opponents.

 

[Plunder]

This is most likely something I can find by googling for a few hours but if someone could help me out here real quick....

Why does it seem like waveland or wavedash smash turn (dash the way your back was facing) seems so much faster than just holding towards your back to turn around? Is this true or am I doing something wrong?

I'm specifically talking with DK since DD or dashing forward > wavedash back > turn around jump Bair is a common thing I do since DK has almost no approach options when facing opponent.

When I let go of the analog from the WD input and then smash it again away to start a dash backwards out of the WD I find I can jump and bair the opposite direction so much faster then just waiting for the turn around and then jumping to Bair the opposite way. Most of the time without the smash turn I can actually see DK turn around for a split second but then once I jump DK is facing the initial direction again in the air and the bair comes out the wrong way. Without the WD part; from a stand still, the turn-around jump seems just as fast as a smash dash turn jump....

Am I missing some inside info here or is a smash turn always better for this kind of situation?

 

[tm]

This is most likely something I can find by googling for a few hours but if someone could help me out here real quick....

Why does it see like waveland or wavedash smash turn (dash the way your back was facing) seems so much faster then just holding towards your back to turn around? Is this tru or am I doing something wrong?

I'm specifically talking with DK since DD or dashing forward > wavedash back > turn around jump Bair is a common thing I do since DK has almost not approach options when facing opponent.

When I let go of the analog from the WD input and then smash it again away to start a dash backwards out of the WD I find I can jump and bair the opposite direction so much faster then just waiting for the turn around and then jumping to Bair the opposite way. Most of the time without the smash turn I can actually see DK turn around for a split second but then once I jump DK is facing the initial direction again in the air and the bair comes out the wrong way. Without a WD part; from a stand still, the turn-around jump seem just as fast as a smash dash turn jump....

Am I missing some inside info here or is a smash turn always better for this kind of situation?

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Turn

tldr; Smash turn -> jump is faster than tilt turn -> jump. When you turn into jab / ftilt you don't have to finish the turnround animation first but if you jump you do.

 

[Plunder]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Turn

tldr; Smash turn -> jump is faster than tilt turn -> jump. When you turn into jab / ftilt you don't have to finish the turnround animation first but if you jump you do.

Ah okay thanks so it's frame 1 compared to frame 5-9...wow what a large difference. No wonder I could easily notice it. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a less input heavy way to do it, guess not.

(also I can't believe how many spelling mistakes were in my original post. I need to proofread my long ones in the future :/ )

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[Kadano]

Does master hand have detailed projectile frame data (bk, kbg, etc) or do I need to find that information someplace else?

I never got the projectile attributes from MH. They are in Toomai’s hitbox collection though (.xlsx file linked in the OP of my “perfect Marth class” thread linked from my sig), in the Hitboxes sheet.

 

[Hunybear]

How often dose Pokémon stadium transform? how long dose each transformation last? What is being battle fielded ( like when you try to grab the edge but don't) how dose that work? How often do FoD platforms move? I know that they start even but that's about it. And any other legal stage knowledge would be nice. Like maybe about flyguys or something. How often do they show up and how durable are they.

 

[Oskurito]

I was wondering if there's any ledge mechanic that somehow adds any type of delay that prevents me from dropping down as soon as I grab the ledge when recovering. I've been having trouble trying to ledge-dash very quickly right after grabbing the ledge.

There seems to be a specific timing for dropping asap. To me it seems like the better the sweet-spot the less time I have to wait before pressing down. Sometimes pressing down right after grabbing the edge after up-b or side-b results into jumping immediately after grabbing the ledge.

Please @ Kadano enlight me (I'm serious).

 

[Kadano]

I was wondering if there's any ledge mechanic that somehow adds any type of delay that prevents me from dropping down as soon as I grab the ledge when recovering. I've been having trouble trying to ledge-dash very quickly right after grabbing the ledge.

There seems to be a specific timing for dropping asap. To me it seems like the better the sweet-spot the less time I have to wait before pressing down. Sometimes pressing down right after grabbing the edge after up-b or side-b results into jumping immediately after grabbing the ledge.

Please @ Kadano enlight me (I'm serious).

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Ledgestall#Explanation

 

[Oskurito]

Sweet, exactly what I was looking for! I love you <3 lolololol

 

[Strong Badam]

2) Yes. Strongbad (and some other people help I think) made a program called Master Hand that displays the info in character .dat files in a readable way. It can be hard to interpret because there is info missing and the program uses in game names for stuff, e.g. rolls are called EscapeF/B. IMO it's easier to just turn on develop mode and count frames.

You can find links to all the things I mentioned in my Melee Library linked in my signature.

I know I'm late, but I am not responsible for the bulk of Master Hand's development. The vast majority of it was done by Dantarion and WindOwl, while various PMDT members (some no longer in the PMDT) helped figure out what commands were. I simply released it to the public, with permission.

 

[flieskiller]

https://twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/647357473452630016

"I didn't think you could do neutral b right from a dash LOL wtf"

Anyone here can describe what to do to achieve Neutral B out of dash? If it's specific to a character or it's a global mechanic.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Copy paste because I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread:

Does anyone know the formula for how knockback (F2 KB Velocity in debug mode) changes over time, with DI factored in? With no DI, overall knockback seems to decrease by 0.051 every frame, and the Y component of knockback can be found by (current knockback*sin(base launch angle)).

I assumed that for trajectory DI, it would be the same except instead of (base launch angle) it would be (base launch angle + TDI modifier), where TDI modifier can be between 0 and +/- 18 degrees, depending on the angle of the control stick relative to the base launch angle. When I calculate it that way, the X and Y components of knockback (observed in debug node) on the first frame of hitstun are not what the formula predicts. I've tried for several different moves/DIs and it's always slightly off...

 

[tauKhan]

https://twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/647357473452630016

"I didn't think you could do neutral b right from a dash LOL wtf"

Anyone here can describe what to do to achieve Neutral B out of dash? If it's specific to a character or it's a global mechanic.

Nothing because it's impossible. However you can perform any special directly from run. When doing neutral b out of run you need to input the b on the same frame you move stick to center because otherwise you enter RunBrake out of which you can't neutral b.

Kyu Puff Did you check whether the kb decrease matches the original kb vector instead of TDI modified vector? Just a suggestion, I can't really think of any other natural solution.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Is there any options of Marth's Dancing Blade that's the fastest (except for 2 hit combo)

 

[Kadano]

Is there any options of Marth's Dancing Blade that's the fastest (except for 2 hit combo)

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Marth_(SSBM)/Side_special#Timing

 

[Mc.Rad]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Marth_(SSBM)/Side_special#Timing

So...
1, 2-Up, 3-Up, 4-Up?
(This have more hitboxes frames. You can use 2-side and 4-side to get the same animation time but up gives the hitboxes more time to stay out)

 

[Kadano]

So...
1, 2-Up, 3-Up, 4-Up?
(This have more hitboxes frames. You can use 2-side and 4-side to get the same animation time but up gives the hitboxes more time to stay out)

You need to look at the earliest continuable frame, except for DB4 (where only DB4↓ is slower than the other two).

 

[Mc.Rad]

You need to look at the earliest continuable frame, except for DB4 (where onld DB4↓ is slower than the other two).

So 1, 2-Up, 3-side, 4-up ?

 

[Kadano]

So 1, 2-Up, 3-side, 4-up ?

If you want the shortest combination with the highest % of hitbox frames, yeah. But the hitbox range is more important than the frame amount imho.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Kyu Puff Did you check whether the kb decrease matches the original kb vector instead of TDI modified vector? Just a suggestion, I can't really think of any other natural solution.

No, it seems to be somewhere in between. For example, a move initially does 1.759 knockback; on the first frame of hitstun, the knockback decreases to 1.708. The original trajectory was 83, I DI straight down so it should change to 80.8 (could this be where I'm messing up?)

Angle | Predicted Y-component
80.8 | 1.6861
83 | 1.69531
82.73 | 1.69432

The last one is the actual value observed in game...

A related question, does anyone know how much X/Y displacement any character gets for ASDI?

EDIT: Sorry these numbers are for launch speed.

 

[Mc.Rad]

If you want the shortest combination with the highest % of hitbox frames, yeah. But the hitbox range is more important than the frame amount imho.

So just input side, down, side, down for best range?

 

[Sycorax]

Yo, in this video it looks like Lucky walltechs S2J's dtilt and then lands on the stage. How is this possible?