[NSW] Boost: REBOOT - Sunday, the 11th of September 2011

[SummonerAU]

but Zero can't play Ryougi :| He can barely play Ciel as it is

 

[Zero]

He's right you know

 

[Luco]

Smash 64 in New South Wales (well at least at my tournaments) will be using VC.

AND DONE

Having the two is problematic for reasons stated.
And VC version is currently a lot more accessible and hence is preferred.
No need to discuss this further, decision is made.

Looks like i'm learning more gc controller stuff.

 

[EverAlert]

dw mungo, soon you will learn that gc controller is far superior.

 

[tedeth]

It's like Foxy, but half the size.

 

[Luco]

Not to me.... Never to me. You can no more lessen the bonds of my childhood than you can jump in to space.

But i shall try... :I

*EDITS* That sounds overly dramatic. I'm not THAT sad, it's just i feel a tinge of disappointment at not being able to use my fav childhood controllers.

*EDITS AGAIN* Foxy? I'm confused...

 

[Invisi]

I'm sure that, once you get used to it, the wii-chuk would be just as effective as a gc controller. It has all the same buttons, just in different configurations. I'd say most people (like me) play with gc simply because they came from melee.

 

[Luco]

Well i meant 64 controller by 'childhood controller' but taking your point in to consideration I see what you're saying. As for that matter that you bring up, the wii chuk will likely be good for when SSB4 comes out, severing the wii-U's ties with the gamecube. I doubt many SSB4 tournaments will be happening for quite a while when it first comes out...

 

[swordsaint]

no tournaments will be held without the usage of gc controllers

it will fail. unless of course they introduce a new line of controllers that don't suck.

 

[Luco]

I think there'll be a way. But people will need time to adapt not only to the new game but the new controllers. It will be doubly hard.

I imagine that'll be cause for a lot of people to turn to the wii-chuk. Of course, it all depends on the type of controller the wii-U brings out.

 

[EverAlert]

The best option for SSB4 will almost definitely be the Classic Controller. I don't see them coming up with a totally new controller for WiiU. While not ideal, it's not THAT bad...

Also Invisi I guarantee you most people use gc controllers cause it genuinely is better lol.

 

[Luco]

No love for the wii-chuk or the 64 controller...

 

[swordsaint]

when i first started playing i was using the wii chuk config

and then i discovered that gamecube controls were better

now look at me

and imo the 64 control is an atrocity.

 

[swordsaint]

The best option for SSB4 will almost definitely be the Classic Controller. I don't see them coming up with a totally new controller for WiiU. While not ideal, it's not THAT bad...

Also Invisi I guarantee you most people use gc controllers cause it genuinely is better lol.

all they have to do is design a classic control like that gamecube control and problem solved

(minus the syncing issues and the wii mote constantly hanging from the ends of our vastly superior control)

 

[escro]

Catching up on backlog.
Whats the difference brtwern pal and ntsc and why does a difference exist anyway?

Also to scoot's comment, i always assumed ssb4 would fail in the tourney scene cuz of the whole wireless issue that gc conts obviously dont hav...
Arent wavebirds banned for that reason?

 

[Zero]

And then you look at Summoner, who still uses Wiichuk, and who is that scrub?

No one.

 

[swordsaint]

Catching up on backlog.
Whats the difference brtwern pal and ntsc and why does a difference exist anyway?

Also to scoot's comment, i always assumed ssb4 would fail in the tourney scene cuz of the whole wireless issue that gc conts obviously dont hav...
Arent wavebirds banned for that reason?

wavebirds aren't banned are they? but they do have delayed input, so use them at your own expense really.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Foxy? I'm confused...

What's a Foxy? I'm also confused.

 

[escro]

Ermm they have been known to be banned in some tourneys but thats usually to the TO's discretion. And when that happens wiichucks and classics are banned as well.
But itd only be necessary on large scale tourneys.

So any clarity on my other question?

 

[EverAlert]

there are no banned wireless controllers, wavebird or otherwise (at least not in any respected competitve setting I know of). at worst the wii remote stuff is frowned upon cause of syncing/home button issues (which are nonexistant on wavebird).

escro - the main differences between pal/ntsc are just minor gameplay tweaks, such as fox's upb being longer in ntsc melee. the point of pal vs ntsc is due to international television standards, usually game developers will use this excuse to delay the localisation of a game in order to balance a game a bit more, which leads to slight differences between regions. and no, brawl doesn't have any regional differences, in case you were wondering.

 

[escro]

In that case who use ntsc?
Im correct in assuming we use pal for our tourneys?
In syd i mean

 

[EverAlert]

ntsc is 64 standard
pal is melee standard but some people run ntsc
brawl standard is doesntmatter

edit: meaning what we run in syd for clarification

 

[Invisi]

NTSC is the standard for North America and Japan
PAL is the standard for Europe and Australia

 

[Shaya]

smash4 iirc has a lot of usb ports. There are rumours of convertors

 

[escro]

Apparently.
If so i want one to use with dolphin on my comp
Ill look into it later

 

[asianaussie]

any serious 64 player will take ntsc over pal any day (unless they play link, and even then...)

 

[Rad]

Are you a serious 64 player, asianaussie?

 

[escro]

Whats wrong with 64 link?

 

[asianaussie]

sorta serious, less so recently though

64 link is hilariously bad outside hyrule, slow in general (jumping, attacks, everything), bad recovery, needs camping to be viable against non-sucky players

in PAL he has a very minor horizontal airspeed change which increases the distance of his recovery from mid/high levels by a not-insignificant amount, but 50fps isn't worth it imo

 

[blaze3927]

having a 64 tourney only only vc would fail unless someone made ?QUITE a number of the 64-wii adapters as all the GOOD smash 64 players use n64 controller
bar rom who might not exist

 

[EverAlert]

make your own adapter if you care that much. nsw doesn't have the "good" 64 players you're referring to (except shaya?)

 

[swordsaint]

having a 64 tourney only only vc would fail unless someone made ?QUITE a number of the 64-wii adapters as all the GOOD smash 64 players use n64 controller
bar rom who might not exist

this is so loaded

all the good smash 64 players you know of use 64 controls, but we use GC controls. we might not be as good as you guys, but there's definitely a growing interest in the game witihn our scene (who all use GC controls) and it'd be pretty naive to think we couldn't get better at it and have a 'decent' 64 scene with gc controls

but like ea said, if you care so much bring your own and problem solved.

 

[asianaussie]

it's funny because blaze does actually have his own gamecube > n64 adapter

i saw him playing brawl using a n64 controller

someone should make me a gamecube > keyboard adapter

 

[ciaza]

James is dum though.

1der taught me that you should think of melee and 64 as two entirely different games, using the same controller for both sort of takes away from that, you start playing melee like 64 and vice versa. At least in my experience.

I am extremely happy to hear that people are starting to take an interest in 64 though, it'd be so great to have you guys play online with us. I was really happy just hearing that Monkeybear played it when I was at ACL.

It's probably very easy to use GC controller to play emulators on your computer, which conveniently play at 60FPS too if you want to start PRACTICING there. However the 64 controller is objectively great for 64, mainly thanks to the proximity of left-C to B, and down-C to A.

 

[Shaya]

See there's a bit of a difference going on here..

We're playing smash 64 in competition, but we likely don't really care much about it competitively on a large scale at all. If there were to be a major with smash 64 with "us" who are used to gc controllers and "you guys" who are playing with n64 controllers one of us are likely to lose out, I doubt either of us would bother to flip over - hell we likely wouldn't be butthurt about not properly participating at all... and to be honest it's already been "proven" (so to speak) that VC + GC controllers is a lot more accessible to people than n64 controllers / an n64, while your scene is respectably strong it is also restricting new players for the most part from joining unlike us.

A lot of us have wiis and a lot of us have put smash 64 on it and have since played it with game cube controllers - our scene practices and plays the game casually and now in tournaments with game cube controllers. While this ostracises a lot of the players who are doing nintendo 64 controllers only, there aren't any? people who participate in NSW tournaments who actively have been practising with 64 controllers.

 

[ciaza]

I'm sorry and it could be that I just woke up but that's a bit disrespectful. How does our scene restrict people? We barely play in person, our scene is entirely online where playing with X controller is accepted (Pete uses Xbox controller, Kuro had his Dpad, etc). And even when we do play IRL, like at ACL, we were flexible to allow people like aa who prefer kb to play on an emulator. Emulators offer any controller to be accepted so no we're not restrictive.

Here's the thing, as you may or may not know, VC forces frame skips when playing SSB64. This essentially takes away all credibility of its competitive aspect. I actually don't mind this, I want to just chill with people who like the game and have a laugh while playing, but don't try to start something like VC is better and less restrictive than actual N64 consoles (and for the record I know more people outside the smash community with an N64 rather than a Wii).

I do entirely respect that you guys all play it casually and wouldn't bother playing it on an emulator or anything not on vc, and might only want to play with yourselves in your community though, so please don't get the wrong impression that I'm attacking you guys, I'm still ecstatic that you're actually playing the game in some form.

 

[Shaya]

You seem to think I / we(?) care about how its played outside of tournament. The context of what I'm talking about is in tournament / at meets.
If there were a tournament and the standard was playing on n64 we likely wouldn't be 'raging' about it, people would maybe play on n64 controllers and others (like myself) would probably not participate; while this does disconnect communities and hurts its national competitiveness (where the standard playing medium is emulator/n64, but it isn't played competitively in tournaments that often offline atm anyway - so its really hard to fairly state what is the 'standard' - I ran an n64 tournament in person in 08 with 30 odd entrants who all used VC + GC controllers to play it and it had myself [previously keyboard], atticus [keyboard + controller] and turtle [keyboard] playing in it and you've run a tournament where n64, emulator and vc was in use?)

Now define frame skipping for me though, how often does it frame skip, how likely is it to occur? Considering the majority of the community play it online where you're looking at a minimum of 5 frames input delay I would say on average playing it on VC in person is a lot more "competitive" (if you are to define competitive by that motion) than online.
But playing online has nothing to do with this conversation - we're talking about building interest in the community to play the game, which will likely be nurturing the VC rather than alternate methods due to various constraints and what people (our scene) prefers.

 

[Rad]

Hey JP, can you host another tournament while I can still afford it?

10poor

 

[ciaza]

You seem to think I / we(?) care about how its played outside of tournament. The context of what I'm talking about is in tournament / at meets.
If there were a tournament and the standard was playing on n64 we likely wouldn't be 'raging' about it, people would maybe play on n64 controllers and others (like myself) would probably not participate; while this does disconnect communities and hurts its national competitiveness (where the standard playing medium is emulator/n64, but it isn't played competitively in tournaments that often offline atm anyway - so its really hard to fairly state what is the 'standard' - I ran an n64 tournament in person in 08 with 30 odd entrants who all used VC + GC controllers to play it and it had myself [previously keyboard], atticus [keyboard + controller] and turtle [keyboard] playing in it and you've run a tournament where n64, emulator and vc was in use?)

It's pretty easy to define standard once look outside of Australia. In every major N64 tourney the standard is N64. The Kanto tournament with over 130 entrants is a prime example. "National competitiveness" and "virtual console" don't go hand-in-hand. To try and shift away from N64 console is ludicrous and will give even less credibility to the Australian SSB64 scene that what it already has. Shifting to vc would deter people who take the game seriously, and by that I mean people who play online consistently to try and improve from playing in an offline Aus scene. ACL didn't use vc, don't know where you got that from. If you don't care what happens outside of your meets that's fine, but as I said people who take this game seriously won't be playing on vc.

Now define frame skipping for me though, how often does it frame skip, how likely is it to occur? Considering the majority of the community play it online where you're looking at a minimum of 5 frames input delay I would say on average playing it on VC in person is a lot more "competitive" (if you are to define competitive by that motion) than online.
But playing online has nothing to do with this conversation - we're talking about building interest in the community to play the game, which will likely be nurturing the VC rather than alternate methods due to various constraints and what people (our scene) prefers.

I'm not sure on the specifics, but a general consensus from anyone notable will tell you that it happens, including myself. Frame specific things like parries get messed up far too often for it to matter.

You've also been disconnected from the online scene too long. 5 frames?! Please. P2P is standard where the MOST you will get is 2 frames, the outlier being Judas all the way in Western Australia where you get the ridiculously, absurdly high delay of... 3 frames. Yikes. The terror. I get 5 frames with SheerMadness in America.

This is pointless. I am ecstatic that there is an interest in 64, but you're off your head if you think established players are going to transition to vc to play competitively. Of course, I endorse playing the game on the vc infinitely more than not playing at all.

Sorry for coming off angry, I'm well-aware that I get overly defensive when it comes to this sort of thing, and I don't mean to cause a scene (pardon the pun).

 

[Shaya]

I don't expect established players to transition to VC, never said anything similar to it either. Remember, I said that there are no players who currently attend nsw tournaments who practice the game on n64 or EVEN EMULATOR.

but I doubt we will not play on VC here. In other words if people came here to play 64 with us, they'd likely have to play on VC, ala 'when in Rome'.
You don't sound angry to me at all.