Ninja Clan Here We Stand! Sheik Match-Up Thread

[ArikadoSD]

Smash 4 being my first Smash game that i looked into competitively, i couldn't find any information about this being known or not. I was playing against a spammy Ness online, i used down throw and he just started using his down B so i went to a vanish kill and surprisingly he absorbed the vanish. So, is this known/worth mentioning in the Ness part of the matchup thread?

I /think/ people already knew that? Like, I really don't think it would make much of a difference in the Ness match up... obviously they're not gonna be using down B whenever they see a vanish potentially coming because its too risky.

I'm pretty sure it was a known fact that Ness can absorb the explosion from the nade but not the nade (the small ball) itself, so that's what I mean by "I /think/ people already knew that."

 

[Gabriel - Jthor]

I /think/ people already knew that? Like, I really don't think it would make much of a difference in the Ness match up... obviously they're not gonna be using down B whenever they see a vanish potentially coming because its too risky.

I'm pretty sure it was a known fact that Ness can absorb the explosion from the nade but not the nade (the small ball) itself, so that's what I mean by "I /think/ people already knew that."

Sorry, I was just watching the replay and in the heat of the match I was just so impressed by him absorbing the vanish that I didn't notice that it actually continues normally after being absorbed, i thought i just went directly to fast fall without teleporting. So, really it isn't anything worth noting here.

 

[Wasserwipf]

Smash 4 being my first Smash game that i looked into competitively, i couldn't find any information about this being known or not. I was playing against a spammy Ness online, i used down throw and he just started using his down B so i went to a vanish kill and surprisingly he absorbed the vanish. So, is this known/worth mentioning in the Ness part of the matchup thread?

This is actually legit info! We heal them 20% while disappearing and we cannot hit them at all. However, on reappearance both the hitbox and windbox will affect Ness and he cannot absorb anything. Damn boy just took one of our kill options.
I can only talk for myself but I did not know this. After jumping on the Ness boards I found they already knew tho. I'm getting the urge to stalk other char boards as well.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Found out something interesting just now. If you have a pikmin stuck to you, you can hit it with an early Bouncing Fish. So you could hit Olimar twice with BF without needing a wall/stage element.

Not that anyone's ever gonna face an Olimar, but whatever.

 

[Gabriel - Jthor]

Found out something interesting just now. If you have a pikmin stuck to you, you can hit it with an early Bouncing Fish. So you could hit Olimar twice with BF without needing a wall/stage element.

Not that anyone's ever gonna face an Olimar, but whatever.

Not that many Olimars on For Glory, but Dabuz has been successful with him in tournaments, beating M2K's Diddy and all. So I think thats great information to have in here, Olimar may see a rise in popularity, you never know.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Not that many Olimars on For Glory, but Dabuz has been successful with him in tournaments, beating M2K's Diddy and all. So I think thats great information to have in here, Olimar may see a rise in popularity, you never know.

True, anything could happen with character popularity, but I feel like Olimar is such a niche character that Olimar players will be quite scarce.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If anyone wants to analyze Sheik's match-up against Rosalina, the Rosalina Match-Up Analysis thread is currently analyzing Sheik. Sheik's discussion period will last until the end of 2/7.

 

[rahsosprout]

so im a falcon main trying to switch over to sheik...and embarrassingly enough i struggle vs falcon....any tips?

i heard it's a great matchup for sheik but i cant get past falcons jab.

hopefully i can upload a video soon of me losing to a good one from the falcon chat

 

[Deleted member]

How should a Sheik handle a ZSS?

 

[Absol]

How should a Sheik handle a ZSS?

By crouching a good majority of her attacks

Using Bair against her down b

laugh as fthrow to bouncing fish works so well on her

flaunt your superior projectile

 

[Judo777]

How should a Sheik handle a ZSS?

Avoid her upb like the plague

 

[Supersheikbros]

So Diddy is kinda tough...

Ikr! Tbh I don't know a matchup diddy doesn't struggle in

 

[Kinzer]

Forgive me for dropping in; but, I could really use your help.

http://smashboards.com/threads/sonic-and-the-book-of-matchups-ch-1-sheik.390575/

I'm looking to give the best word of advice to my fellow Sonic players; and, it'd be really awesome if I had some words of wisdom from the opposite end on the spectrum.

You don't have to if it's too much to ask; however, I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you for your time.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Found out something interesting just now. If you have a pikmin stuck to you, you can hit it with an early Bouncing Fish. So you could hit Olimar twice with BF without needing a wall/stage element.

Not that anyone's ever gonna face an Olimar, but whatever.

heh, actually caught an Olimar with bouncing fish using that, ****ing awesome lol. not /entirely/ intentional but I still had it in mind when I threw the bouncing fish.

Regarding the MU against Samus... it's like, easy. like, really really easy. I've never struggled against any Samus whatsoever. Bouncing Fish over all her projectiles, or power shield and rush if they wish to short hop > side b or whatever, juggle her around, throw some needles for annoyance, voila that's it.

I really don't think much needs to be said here. Samus really doesn't like the match up imo, she's just too slow to react to any of Sheik's quick combos.. I guess her nair could potentially break a combo? idk, I haven't played consistently good Samuses in a while.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Samus is also one of the easier characters to do Sponge Nade cheese against, since her projectiles have quite a bit of startup to them.

 

[SupremeSuperiorStick]

Let's talk about Yoshi vs Sheik. From Sheik's side it's really frustrating because Yoshi can break out of aerial strings with double jump super armour and nair. It seems like all his aerials beat Sheik's, so you almost never want to compete with them. Sheik can chain lots of strings but kills really late, whereas Yoshi kills faster and has strong aerials which help him take the stock lead even when far behind in percent. I honestly think that the match-up is 50:50 if not in Yoshi's favour.

 

[NairWizard]

Let's talk about Yoshi vs Sheik. From Sheik's side it's really frustrating because Yoshi can break out of aerial strings with double jump super armour and nair. It seems like all his aerials beat Sheik's, so you almost never want to compete with them. Sheik can chain lots of strings but kills really late, whereas Yoshi kills faster and has strong aerials which help him take the stock lead even when far behind in percent. I honestly think that the match-up is 50:50 if not in Yoshi's favour.

Play patiently with needles and f-air; Yoshi's attacks are deceptively punishable, especially egg toss. Yoshi mains actually believe that Sheik is their worst matchup.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Play patiently with needles and f-air; Yoshi's attacks are deceptively punishable, especially egg toss. Yoshi mains actually believe that Sheik is their worst matchup.

It's funny how all our even/sometimes bad match-ups are believed to be the worst by the other party. I personally sometimes struggle with Bowser but Bowser mains say Sheik is their worst match up lol, same goes to Yoshi.

But yeah I agree. Yoshi especially requires patience to play against. Instead of going for the usual 3-4 fair strings, just do fthrow -> fair and then reset, and try to gimp.

 

[Jaxas]

It's funny how all our even/sometimes bad match-ups are believed to be the worst by the other party. I personally sometimes struggle with Bowser but Bowser mains say Sheik is their worst match up lol, same goes to Yoshi.

But yeah I agree. Yoshi especially requires patience to play against. Instead of going for the usual 3-4 fair strings, just do fthrow -> fair and then reset, and try to gimp.

Yeah, gimping is the big one; a single needle at the right time can flat out end Yoshi's stock.

 

[Demna]

Bouncing Fish Notes on Rosalina&Luma:

You can use BF to bounce between Rosalina&Luma to extend your reach.
Scenarios:
1- Rosalina is offstage and you managed to land a Bouncing Fish: If Luma is on stage within range to be intersected BF, you can use it to optimize your damage on Luma + get a chance of landing another BF on Rosalina.

2- Rosalina is offstage and is in a weird angle to be hit by BF: If Luma is on stage you can use BF directly on Luma to mix it up and hit Rosalina unexpectedly.

3- Rosalina is onstage but seperated from Luma: A good mixup can be - Dash towards Rosa>Reverse BF>Hit Luma>Potentially Hit Rosa right after. BF is SoS so Worse-case scenario is getting damage on Luma only which is still beneficial.

There are more mixups for this implication yet to be found, be creative ^^

 

[Sinister Slush]

Come over and tell us why we don't actually get beaten by Sheik -2, old thread but doing MU discussions now.
Most of the more active Yoshi's are up to adding some of you on wifi for more MU experience and to get a better idea on what to say.

Discussion kinda slow cause we're a dead board outside of recent Yoshi ditto tournament.

http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-sheik.374421/

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Hello Sheik Boards!
The Bowser Jr. board has a tthread dedicated to the Sheik Match up now!
If any of you have time feel free to drop by and help us figure out the MU!
Thanks in advance!
http://smashboards.com/threads/vs-sheik.392520/

 

[?.?]

So living in Central florida I get to do sheik dittos quite often (which to be honest sucks quite a bit) but with all those matches I've learned only a few facts which can help you win the MU tremendously. So I felt like sharing.

1. If you anticipate needles or are fighting a needle camping jerk BF is your best friend and can seriously hurt.
2. The sheik which commits first loses, The sheik which commits 2nd wins by a landfall.
3. Keeping the opponent sheik in disadvantage (offstage, in air, on platform, etc...) and simply choosing the option to keep them there will take you miles.
4. Fun little tip I learned and came up with myself, if you're fighting a person who likes to throw out single needles at match start and are on a stage where it can land such as battlefield you can time a grenade throw so it drops right at your feet with no momentum. Giving you the tool of their destruction.


Also some tips about the pac-man matchup

1. Pac man just loves his items and most of them are actually scary so remembering that your needle can interrupt his item charge (important note most of his items will eat needles) and scare him in future attempts to charge in front of you.

2. Also if you've got him in a juggle situation their go-to escape option is to first throw down a hydrant then proceed to move to the side opposite of it or use their pellet to get back down to stage. Both of these options are beaten by any well spaced aerial... For the hydrant our b-air is especially useful as it allows us to safely attempt to poke him without fear of being hit by the hydrant and for the pellet I prefer n-air as it takes away any timing needed to hit the pellet but if you prefer more bang for your buck fair would probably be a better option.

3. One last note if pac man is chilling on the hydrant or you anticipate that about to happen sh-fair is enough to get him off and you can actually pull off stupid combos by inputting a dash on the otherside if the water hits you. fair > U-smash for instance (DI dependant).

 

[LucasBlitz]

Hey anyone know how to match up against Pikachu? Because I ****ING HATE this stupid yellow rat. Its either Im getting bombarded by jolts into grab combos into stupid arial combos that get me to 50% by 3 moves, I can never grab him cause hes so short and Im always gimped off stage by some arial hit or baited into airdodging. Boils my blood to see this *******. Any tips I would absolutely love to have any tips on putting down this rat.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Hey anyone know how to match up against Pikachu? Because I ****ING HATE this stupid yellow rat. Its either Im getting bombarded by jolts into grab combos into stupid arial combos that get me to 50% by 3 moves, I can never grab him cause hes so short and Im always gimped off stage by some arial hit or baited into airdodging. Boils my blood to see this *******. Any tips I would absolutely love to have any tips on putting down this rat.

Bouncing Fish over Thunderjolt works wonders. Also Needle camping.

 

[Jehtt]

How is Kirby vs Sheik? I've considered adding Kirby to my repertoire, but I don't want to do so if his matchup vs Sheik is bad.

 

[BigHairyFart]

How is Kirby vs Sheik? I've considered adding Kirby to my repertoire, but I don't want to do so if his matchup vs Sheik is bad.

Well, both characters are pretty good in the air, but Sheik wins the ground game hard.

Kirby can duck under Sheik's needles, but Sheik can't duck under Kirby's needles.

 

[Ironf1st]

Anybody have any advice for the mario matchup, this is most definitely the matchup I have struggled with the most out of the entire roster. The person I practice with the most mains mario, and there are a variety of tolls he has that I just often times have a hard time finding a way around, such as:

Any time I go to charge needles, the mario just short hop tosses the fireball, which just eats my needles if I try to counter using them, and if I don't I am forced to avoid the fireball by either shielding, which gives mario a free grab or free shield pressure, or I have to jump over it, and sheik just doesn't have the tools to deal with being above mario I feel. Mario already wants people to be above him, and sheik can't really do anything to mario once she's up their, mario's short hop up air beats all of sheik's aerials, and if I try to bouncing fish away from him he just tosses another fireball and continues to chase. Other than that, the cape can actually reflect all of the needles from a fully charged needle toss, and just in general when bouncing fish is unsafe, needle camping is ineffective, and sheik's aerials often times just getting beaten by nair/dair, I find myself losing neutral a lot and would apprecuate some help dealing with the various options mario has against sheik. I have gotten a lot of practice against other characters as well as mario, and I can honestly say that I feel like he is in sheik's top 5 if not top 3 worst matchups, alongside characters like rosa/luma and diddy.

Edit: Just got to see what the mario boards had to say about sheik, and is it me or do no mario players beside the one I talked about and all the others in my area use mario's fireball? Also, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing but mario's dair has been consistently been beating my fair, and if he does it at my shield often times it will deplete enough of it that a dsmash, which comes out suuuuuper fast, usually pokes. Am I seriously missing something or am I just a person who is doomed to struggle with mario while everyone else says the matchup is easy?

 

[?.?]

I'll see If I can help you out with this MU... One of my buddy actually has mained mario since release so I get to do this MU semi-often and I can understand why you think it's so hard but it's truly quite easy. I'll start from the top of the 2nd paragraph and work my way through your problems.

So for charging needles, there are a ton of times in advantage where you can charge a needle and keep advantage. I also seriously recommend learning how to charge aerial needles and cancel the charge/landing lag with an air dodge (this is referred to in the AT thread which can be accessed through Jacksons compendium sticky post). Any time you land a u-air at higher percents you can actually fastfall and start charging for a full charge if you don't mind going back to neutral. Regarding what you struggle with here I suggest learning the timing for a perfect shield and understanding that any attack beats a grab, so since you know he's going to go in for the grab even if you don't get a PS you can simply jump out of shield and nair to punish that grab, Of course a PS would allow you to punish it way more easily (and give more options). SH u-air beats almost none of our aerials if we space properly... Exception probably against dair or if we're above him for obvious reasons. If he's using u-air to approach during nuetral realize that not only is the hitbox for the move where his foot is but once the initial has come out his hurtbox is extended and you can hit him from quite a ways extra with a well spaced fair. If he uses cape a lot that's great for you, or if you can get him to do it a lot via well timed single needles. Cape is not a very safe option you can easily run up to him and grab him out of lag. Dair is honestly the only aerial he has which is hard to beat, luckily it's not to hard to shield and punish it... Our nair actually beats his nair out (assuming sourspots, no clue on sweetspots) and so does fair. Needle camping is actually effective in the sense it makes him always assume you're going to do it so he'll constantly either be running at you or sitting in shield/behind cape, both of which are things you should want.

Hope that helped and I'm sure you'll figure it out more as you practice. My biggest suggestion would be to practice getting fairs at the max range possible... which is stupid large. Good Luck

 

[BigHairyFart]

If you're feeling ballsy, Sheik can actually dash under Mario's fireballs, so that could be a potential surprise approach/punish. Or you could just crouch under them and wait Mario out.

 

[Waymas]

Yo guys, the Wario boards are currently discussing the Sheik MU: http://smashboards.com/threads/wah-...hup-thread-currently-discussing-sheik.391846/

Any info will be greatly appreciated ;3

 

[pokio55]

What about Diddy Kong??

 

[BigHairyFart]

I just got **** on by a Donkey Kong today. The guy was going nuts, I couldn't get in anywhere, he shut down all my approaches, and needle camping was not working either.

 

[Crabman]

Any sheik players want to practice against a sonic main? I consider myself to be pretty good, but i'm trying to take it to the next level and I definitely need to work on this match up.

 

[Dagon97]

Any sheik players want to practice against a sonic main? I consider myself to be pretty good, but i'm trying to take it to the next level and I definitely need to work on this match up.

The entirety of the match up is on Sheik's side to anticipate Sonic's neutral/side special and reacting accordingly.

Sonic's side is all mix ups. Sonic's jabs punish any badly spaced aerials. Sonic's have to know how to punish an incoming BF or they will loose BADLY.

 

[zorlinshape]

I just got wrecked by a Dedede on FG, many many times. I won maybe 3 games out of 20. I always do pretty well in terms of % but when it comes to the kill, it just wasn't happening. I read the current writeup for the MU and I agree with everything said in there... now the only problem is that it doesn't really talk about how to actually win the MU.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Well, both characters are pretty good in the air, but Sheik wins the ground game hard.

Kirby can duck under Sheik's needles, but Sheik can't duck under Kirby's needles.

Well, actually Kirby would fair decently on ground too, like you said the fact he can crouch under her only true projectile is something that could hinder their use, meanwhile if we get the projectile, we have a better utility of the move overall because of our multiple jumps, making it easier to disrupt sheiks recovery.
(I don't remember if this is true, but can you actually shield the wind hitbox on sheiks Up-B?)
Sheiks Fair chains Kirby pretty easily, but that's generally it, I highly recommend for any Kirby mains, to try and find a way to counter BF, I would assume Nair, Fair,Bair would be a few decent options with correct timing.

Because Shiek falls fast, Kirby can get several Utilt strings and then a couple Uairs for extra damage,
Shieks moves seem to be on the lower ranged side, so obviously if her only projectile won't hit you often, then she has to likely approach, and this is a time to try and it's inhale.
Luckily, I HAVE found a way to actually use Utilt to lead into Inhale, it requires good timing, but It has worked pretty much every time(It mostly works on Fast fallers because they get stuck in the chain longer)
Ok use Kirbys UTilt and get the strings on Shiek, then, with correct timing, IF THEY TRY TO JUMP OUT, you might just be able to hit them and continue the string, now generally after using the string a few times, the characters should be pushed in front of Kirby where the tilt barely has Any knockback, then you quickly try to use Inhale and it should work. Remember makes urge that the th on have their jump.

Typing on a tablet SUCKS.

 

[Dyce]

After playing against a skilled Kirby player that basically knows the Sheik matchup, this matchup is pretty mixed. Perhaps 50-50 to 60-40 Sheik's Favor. Call me crazy, but that's what I think at the moment. You'll have to read their recovery methods. And when you have the opportunity to punish, you need to capitalize on this really hard. Kirby's utilt strings are pretty ridiculous, but it is DI-able to minimize damage on our part.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

After playing against a skilled Kirby player that basically knows the Sheik matchup, this matchup is pretty mixed. Perhaps 50-50 to 60-40 Sheik's Favor. Call me crazy, but that's what I think at the moment. You'll have to read their recovery methods. And when you have the opportunity to punish, you need to capitalize on this really hard. Kirby's utilt strings are pretty ridiculous, but it is DI-able to minimize damage on our part.

But keep in mind considering how fast it is, you can still follow them while continuing the string.
Btw was that Kirby players named Dee? And was it online? Or on Anther's Ladder? But yea I think it's slightly in Shieks favor, but Kirby, unlike most characters can hold is ground pretty well against Shiek, I just wish I would see more on FG :/

 

[Dyce]

His name is SnorlaxPlox. One of the better Kirby player's in NorCal and probably all of California. Definitely knowledgable in the matchup tho. I was surprised when I realized Kirby can hold its ground against Sheik.