Ninja Clan Here We Stand! Sheik Match-Up Thread

[WondrousMoose]

I recently took a shot at 9.0 Classic with Falco, and I've got to say that after this last update, he feels incredible. While he lacks Sheik's speed on the ground, his aerial game is incredible, and I'm thinking of picking him up as a secondary. My question is this: how would that benefit me? What poor matchups of Sheik's do you feel Falco covers? His projectile is still risky, and he's lighter than Sheik, though only barely. Is he worth my time?

 

[Joaco]

I recently took a shot at 9.0 Classic with Falco, and I've got to say that after this last update, he feels incredible. While he lacks Sheik's speed on the ground, his aerial game is incredible, and I'm thinking of picking him up as a secondary. My question is this: how would that benefit me? What poor matchups of Sheik's do you feel Falco covers? His projectile is still risky, and he's lighter than Sheik, though only barely. Is he worth my time?

As Sheik doesn't have a large disadvantage against anyone, it is better to learn the hard matchups instead of relying on a secondary character.

 

[Demna]

Hey guys, I'd like to drop a crucial information on the Sonic MU.

Needles isn't the only key factor that denies Sonic's Spin Charge/Dash, jabs actually beats it in most scenarios. When Sonic performs a Spin Dash/Charge from across, you can mash the A button and it will guarantee a jab confirmation (assuming Sonic heads straight to you and not over/away from you). Jab1 may sometimes clank with the Spin C/D but Jab2 will surely connect afterwards.

This sometimes may be more handy than Needles because Jab2 can lead to a potential grab/tilt into a 50-50 Upair/Vanish KS.

 

[exnecross]

if you do all that correctly then you would avoid all grab attempts he tries to go for which is most important. DON'T let him grab you or you'll end up at like 50% off one grab. Thankfully Fair and needles do the job really well though.

With Luigi being all about grabs and setting up fireballs into grab, I have to wonder if it is better to go for retreating fairs as he rushes in for a grab, or if spot dodging is the better option. I've had mixed success with both. And it's really the only thing that I have a bit a trouble with in the Luigi MU, as it is very much in Sheik's favor.

If you spot dodge the incoming grab, they can wait it out and punish you for it, which I've been getting a lot. If you try to roll, there's a good chance a decent Luigi will read this and, again, punish you for it. If you go for a retreating fair, or at least sometimes when I do it, they are often able to just bumrush it and grab me anyway, provided I don't immediately throw it out after the SH, in which case it won't be autocanceled, which gives them several options. Also, simply short hopping away allows them to grab you on the fall. B reversed needles would work if he is a good distance away, but in that case he wouldn't be wise to go for a grab in the first place. Doing so in potential grab range would leave you open for a punish. Of course, you always just completely jump away, but that's not gonna give you a chance to punish their grab attempt and you don't really want to be above a Luigi.

I know the best answer would be "don't put yourself in this situation", but unless you're a robot, you're gonna end up in this situation from time to time.

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Also, lately I've been having trouble with good Yoshis. He is just such an overwhelming character, I think he is by far my most feared matchup, even more-so than Rosalina or Sheik dittos. How have you guys been dealing with this green powerhouse?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Re: Luigi. A well spaced rising full hop fair can get you out of sticky situations. After that you can just pick where to land, but preferably not near Luigi because nair or usmash can beat out a lot of Sheik's options. Honestly, the matchup can literally be won only by using fair and needles. Space your Fairs well and Luigi's chances of getting in are very very slim. Power Shield the fireballs, space fair, and needle when needed/necessary, and Luigi can't do much about any of it.

 

[exnecross]

Re: Luigi. A well spaced rising full hop fair can get you out of sticky situations. After that you can just pick where to land, but preferably not near Luigi because nair or usmash can beat out a lot of Sheik's options. Honestly, the matchup can literally be won only by using fair and needles. Space your Fairs well and Luigi's chances of getting in are very very slim. Power Shield the fireballs, space fair, and needle when needed/necessary, and Luigi can't do much about any of it.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing, and it does usually work (the matchup isn't that bad), with that being the case I do feel dumb when they get a grab in. Full hop fair is interesting though, I don't often employ that against a Luigi in fear of an upsmash or otherwise, but I suppose it is worth going for more often.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Yeah, that's what I've been doing, and it does usually work (the matchup isn't that bad), with that being the case I do feel dumb when they get a grab in. Full hop fair is interesting though, I don't often employ that against a Luigi in fear of an upsmash or otherwise, but I suppose it is worth going for more often.

It's good because if you connect (and you should assuming you space it well) it leads to another Fair at mid percents and that just starts another Fair string lol.

 

[Demna]

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of valuable Sheik MU notes scattered across these 13 pages.. Why don't we make a thread for each character we discuss about to keep things organized and to prevent important notes to be lost in translation, this discussion thread is a bit messy when we take every character discussion and put it into one thread.

Also, I will share very important secrets about the RosaLuma MU soon enough, both Mr.R and I found out about it in a friendly session when he flew over to visit.

 

[-dMT-]

Man, came back to check out the MU thread after such a long time... there are still quotes from me up there from like.. 3DS launch time. I can't even honestly say if they hold up still.

Why OP no update? Why @ Tristan_win plzzzz.

So now that we have 1.1.0 data, any MUs that theoretically threaten our theoretically positive MU spread against the entire roster, theoretically?

 

[pokio55]

Man, came back to check out the MU thread after such a long time... there are still quotes from me up there from like.. 3DS launch time. I can't even honestly say if they hold up still.

Why OP no update? Why @ Tristan_win plzzzz.

So now that we have 1.1.0 data, any MUs that theoretically threaten our theoretically positive MU spread against the entire roster, theoretically?

Pikachu should win the MU but many still say it is even.


#updatetheOP

 

[MetaBhreat]

I recently took a shot at 9.0 Classic with Falco, and I've got to say that after this last update, he feels incredible. While he lacks Sheik's speed on the ground, his aerial game is incredible, and I'm thinking of picking him up as a secondary. My question is this: how would that benefit me? What poor matchups of Sheik's do you feel Falco covers? His projectile is still risky, and he's lighter than Sheik, though only barely. Is he worth my time?

Because I was a Falco main in Brawl, I have kept a close eye on my fine-feathered-friend since becoming one of the Sheikah. I agree they fixed a lot in the last patch. As far as covering Sheik's weak points, here's my input:
Falco covers a fair few of the matchups that Sheik struggles with. The only things is is that they are little details. Falco will typically kill a Lucario earlier than a Sheik, which can be a big deal, and his reflector can help with dealing with RosaLuma. Falco will typically kill earlier on everyone. While these details are nice, they are more of a comfort level thing and I don't know if it's enough of an advantage in itself to switch to Falco. Take into account what you feel you want in terms of options within in a matchup and go from there. Personally I would like to see more Falco's .

 

[kanbaru]

Can I get any tips on the fox/sheik mu? I know to shield liberally because fox cant challenge shields very well but fox kills so fast and so well I'm still just struggling.

 

[Illuminose]

Can I get any tips on the fox/sheik mu? I know to shield liberally because fox cant challenge shields very well but fox kills so fast and so well I'm still just struggling.

Crouch lasers, ftilt combos work on him really well but fthrow fair stops working pretty fast so start using down throw (mess around in training mode/against human opponents with DI). Capitalize on him off-stage. You can interrupt his side b if you have good timing.