Ninja Clan Here We Stand! Sheik Match-Up Thread

[YoHeKing]

I think the Sheik vs. Sonic mu is pretty even, yeah. Sonic's bthrow /still/ kills at like 130% which is something, and he has a ridiculously strong Fsmash which is admittedly hard to hit but still, also all his smash attacks are pretty good, bair can kill, etc. Needles are good in this matchup tho.

I'm not much experienced in the mu besides that though, that + the Rosalina matchup (and Yoshi as well) are ones I need to get better at.

aMSa doesn't use Yoshi in sm4sh

I wish he did but I said and ment his melee yoshi to reincarnated(spelled right?) into a smash 4 yoshi main. A yoshi that dosnt spam/only use eggs and nair 80% of there battles. Im not a spammy yoshi at all. Alot of yoshi players in tourneys just spam and are really boring to watch. I really need to get into a big tourney though. I have a ton of great smash4 players and sheiks in my state. If some1 sees somthing in a actuall tourneyment every one changes there minds about stuff. Going to a tourney and beating a known sheik and winning the tourney just really really changes everything. MUs are discussed again and pretty soon everyone is maining yoshi. Thats how the smash community is.

 

[Hydreigon360]

In Sheik vs Sheik, Sheik can combo himself well, be careful of this and take advantage of it yourself. This means you should be able to switch between playing offensively and defensively quickly. Gameplay more often than not is very fast paced. Sheik can be edge guarded but not gimped easily at all. Up B makes edge guarding more risky. The MU will feel different as Sheik can't take as many risks with aerials.

Sheik doesn't have much of an issue killing compare to other MU's. Remember of course that everything that applies to you also applies to your opponent. Hopefully playing a Sheik yourself should help you understand what Sheik's strengths and weaknesses are, along with options Sheik has so you can make good reads and predictions.

 

[MetaBhreat]

Hey guys,
I noticed the Mewtwo boards asked for some Sheik wisdom and added what I knew to their discussion. Unfortunately, I have very limited knowledge of the Mewtwo matchup, (as most of us probably do) but if anyone would like to check it out and add to the discussion I'm sure it would be appreciated.

 

[FullMoon]

Hey fellow ninjas, the Greninja boards are going to talk about Sheik again: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...cina-sword-mii-sheik-5-18-5-25.369356/page-21

We really struggle with this MU so we would really appreciate it if you guys could give us some advice on how to deal with it.

 

[Lukingordex]

Sorry for bringing the whole Yoshi vs Sheik discussion back, but after reading everything I would like to give my opinion as well.

I think Sheik definitely wins this match up.

All she needs to do is bait Yoshi's approach, and she has a lot of options for that. In the other hand, Yoshi doesn't have many options for baiting sheik outside of eggs which you can easily powershield.

So basically, If sheik plays this MU patiently by winning in neutral and raking up damage with her moves which outpriorizes Yoshi's entire moveset (I hate that fair urgh), she definitely wins. Just don't lose your patience and you'll be fine.

 

[Spark31]

The Ness MU is an interesting one, as Ness has the strange advantage of beating out Sheik's fair with his own. This makes approaching Ness extremely dangerous with almost anything, because it is fairly easy for him to punish almost any of your options. Because of this, zoning with needles is extremely important, as it is one of the few non punishable options from Sheik. Waiting for Ness to go in himself is generally the best way to get a punish on him. Another thing of note in the MU is that gimping is recovery is risky. Although it may result in a kill, if Ness hits you with his PK thunder recovery he can easily stage spike you after you go in for a fair or bair. It is recommended that you use bouncing fish as your primary gimping tool in these circumstances. The Ness MU also may be the only MU where the custom "Gale" can actually be used. Although the recovery speed usually doesn't mean much in most mach ups, as it is risky for most of the cast to attempt to gimp Sheik's recovery, Ness can usually safely sit on the stage while you are offstage and attempt to rack up damage using PK thunder. Because of this, Gale can be used to avoid the PK thunder much more effectively. Ness also has the ability to absorb the explosion of Vanish, which is no longer an issue if Gale is used. Keep in mind Ness can also absorb the exposion of the Grenade as well.

 

[Ping Warrior]

@ Spark31 Once we master Gale-Cancelling, that custom's gonna go far...
Sheik can BF over Side B if Ness tries it, btw.

from the Villager matchup, I propose 2231 (Discussed in the customs thread)
NEVER let Villager take you to Duck Hunt. He'll game you harder than a loaded die.
Town and City is second ban since he can platform camp there too. Best stage is FD so he can't pull any tricks. watch out for Exploding balloons (that's why we got abyss!) and shorthop fair/BF to get hits in. Watch out for his FSmash. It has some crazy priority things going on. Gravity Grenade to Up Smash is a great kill combo that can be fadter than Lloyd Rocket.

 

[Spark31]

@ Ping Warrior I was originally unaware of the gale cancel, but now that I know what it is I can definitely see the applications.

 

[Dagon97]

I am not sure how many of you guys know but, Sheik can fair through Olimar's fsmash at no cost. Other things Sheik vs Olimar?

 

[BigHairyFart]

Sheik can BF* off of a pikmin that's stuck to her and get the rebound.
*Requires the kick to come out immediately.

 

[_Tree]

Got bopped at a tourney because I had no idea what facing G&W was like. Anyone got an overview of the match-up? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SupremeSuperiorStick]

Got bopped at a tourney because I had no idea what facing G&W was like. Anyone got an overview of the match-up? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

G&W is actually so annoying, he's so small and his Up Smash super armour eats fairs for days. I could use some help too.

 

[UseHydroPimp]

Have played a few good Pac-Man players recently. Wouldn't mind some useful tips on the match up. I managed to get Pac-Man really low offstage which forced him to use his Up B, once he used the second jump I fast fell down and stole his last one. He died.

 

[Ping Warrior]

I played a Pac Man yesterday and found some interesting stuff:
Needles get eaten by the default fruits. Not sure about the customs, but it's safe to assume so.
Vanish + Anything beats the hydrant. I had success Vanishing at Pac Man to get both some kills and making the hydrant weak to whatever move I wanted for the situation. Essentially turning the hydrant into my tool and getting me the win overall. I was able to fair it after Vanish (I jump+vanished at him almost every time after a throw at kill %s) and it seems to beat out all of his fruits too.

BE CAREFUL ABOUT GRENADES!
I died at 0% because I tried to gravity grenade him and got pushed offstage by the hydrant water. It seems like the freefall danger lasts until most of the end is finished. I had already detonated the grenade when I died.


Against Ness
I found out Vanish's explosion beats out Thunder2
Vanish Gliding can get a kill if Ness doesn't snap to the ledge.
Bouncing Fish over PK Fire works so well it's funny sometimes.
If they like ledgedropping into an up-air to punish approaching them at the ledge, you can RAR dair the ledge and make people salty, scared, and impressed. It looks gorgeous.


VS Villager, I retract my custom set idea
2131 is what I think works best now
at DI or Die XVI there was a problem with a Villager planking with Up-B, fair, and Side-B. Some players did testing on how to beat it and concluded that normal Stealth Grenade destroys Villager at the ledge, meaning he can't camp nearly as well.
Abyss was tested to really hurt his balloons just by Vanish Gliding with Abyss. Abyss also kills at 100% basically from anywhere. (Above the ledge of Battlefield)

 

[Envoy_]

Hey so when you guys are doing a Sheik ditto, how do you go about playing it? I seem to struggle against it and would be thankful for advice.

Questioned was already answered before I asked, lol.

 

[Hydreigon360]

Hey so when you guys are doing a Sheik ditto, how do you go about playing it? I seem to struggle against it and would be thankful for advice.

Bro I already commented on it

 

[Envoy_]

Bro I already commented on it

Whoops, must've scrolled past it by accident. Fixing previous post.

 

[WispBae]

Howdy Ninja Clan!

Doggy boards re-discussing Sheik, and would love your input!

Click this picture of what comes up when you google "sheik" to go right to the discussion!

 

[MashPotato]

Ryu boards are discussing the sheik matchup and help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Joaco]

Ryu boards are discussing the sheik matchup and help would be greatly appreciated!

It's too early to give an input, wait a couple of months before asking b_b

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Sheiks out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Sheik. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Sheik match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/408233/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[ArikadoSD]

^ haha yeah right, like I'll be telling you guys my mu secrets.

jk i actually don't know **** about the mu

 

[TriTails]

Yo ninjas!

Us Luigi board are currently discussing you all in our thread!

Grab your Deku Nuts and use y'all Vanish to us if you have something to share!

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

Heya Shiek boards!
We Little Mac's are currently going over the Shiek matchup. If you have the time and any input on the matchup, please stop by and drop a post.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Against Lucario, I honestly think the only way we can beat them is to time the match out. Get a solid lead (which isn't hard, Lucario is terrible w/o aura and rage) and start running around, he shouldn't be able to catch up to Sheik's amazing mobility, and aura sphere is a bad projectile that you can see from a mile away so you can just shield them.

Otherwise we die from like 60% if they have rage and aura... which let's be real, he'll always have thanks to his ungimpable recovery.

Needles play a huge role in this too of course.

That is, unless you play like a god and manage to always secure a kill at around ~100%.

 

[Nu~]

Hellooooo Shiek Mains!!

The Pac-Man boards are discussing the Shiek matchup. If you want to Bouncing fish all over and drop some knowledge, click this beautiful Pac-Man smiley
->

 

[jam1garner]

This thread was originally started by

@saviorslegacy





Hello everyone and welcome to the match up thread. Below you will find information on various match ups. If you are having trouble with a particular match up please feel free to post a comment asking for help.

Special thanks to everyone who helped make this thread possible.
Images found here- http://www.ssbwiki.com/Super_Smash_Bros._4

About the Ike MU, I have found being patient and punishing to be a very good strategy. Almost all of Ike's moves are punishable. Some tips on edge guarding him: If you want to drop to catch his recovery or even attempt a stage spike, run off, quick fall behind humans come in with a falling bair. You have to get him at the beginning so to avoid pesky armor. If he techs, an uair may be a good follow up, and bouncing fish into the stage to get him with the second hit on some stages if if tech wall jumps. As for horizontal, it takes practice, but bouncing fish out prioritized quick draw and sometime makes it register as hitting you (without hitting you) often screwing up his recovery.

 

[HoodedAltair]

Hey Shieks! We're starting our MU thread on Ryu boards with none other than the stealthy ninja. If you pros would mind chiming in, it would be super helpful!

http://smashboards.com/threads/talk-is-cheap-new-ryu-mu-thread-fighter-1-shiek.410547/

 

[EonBlitz]

Idk if the shulk matchup has been discussed as well as the marth / lucina matchup vs sheik but i find those ones to be a struggle for me, any insight?

 

[Joaco]

Ryu boards are discussing the sheik matchup and help would be greatly appreciated!

It's too early to give an input, wait a couple of months before asking b_b

Hey Shieks! We're starting our MU thread on Ryu boards with none other than the stealthy ninja. If you pros would mind chiming in, it would be super helpful!

http://smashboards.com/threads/talk-is-cheap-new-ryu-mu-thread-fighter-1-shiek.410547/

Glad you listened

 

[pokio55]

Can we work on the MU vs Pikachu and/or Luigi. Those characters always give me a run for my money!

 

[ArikadoSD]

Idk if the shulk matchup has been discussed as well as the marth / lucina matchup vs sheik but i find those ones to be a struggle for me, any insight?

I fight Shulk offline quite often and the same goes to Marth, and I even use Marth myself sometimes.

For Shulk, he can't do anything to needles or fair strings. You can carry him from one end of the stage to the other end and back very easily, and he can't do anything about it. He will be trying to space his nairs and fairs with his huge disjoints but they're slow so you can usually rush in and hit him with fair/nair before he's able to do anything. The biggest thing to keep in mind are his monados. If he has Shield, Buster (purple), or Smash (red), it's best to chill back and camp him out with needles or just stall him out until the monados are finished because it's too risky trying to challenge him. Buster will rack on so much damage, Shield will never die, and Smash can kill you with a dthrow near the ledge at like 100%.

He's also susceptible to edgeguards. You can easily make Shulk panic and bait an air dodge off-stage and he's often screwed because his recovery is very linear and he's forced just about everytime to go low and recover with Up B.

For Marth, it's pretty much the same. He'll try to space you around with disjointed fairs but our fairs come out faster and we have needles to kinda harass him from afar without caring too much about his fairs. Tipper Fsmashes can flip tables though which kinda sucks so you'd have to always keep him occupied and not give him many chances to do that. His up b can break out of fair chains because it comes out frame 3 but other than that it shouldn't be extra difficult.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Can we work on the MU vs Pikachu and/or Luigi. Those characters always give me a run for my money!

Second, Luigis kill me a lot.

 

[HoodedAltair]

Glad you listened

I did not see the other post because that was for the old MU thread. I don't think it's too early but that's up to opinion

 

[ArikadoSD]

Can we work on the MU vs Pikachu and/or Luigi. Those characters always give me a run for my money!

Second, Luigis kill me a lot.

Sheik has two tools that give Luigi the hardest time (and will most likely be nerfed next patch rip ;_: fair and needles. Luigi's fireballs have short range so we can easily outcamp him and punish all his landings with needles. He absolutely gets harassed hard by them.

Fair is disjointed, meaning it can beat anything Luigi tries to opt for. When playing against Luigi you need to keep at a distance where needles would be safe and fair would beat any option they try to go for. If they fish for fireballs to grab then just double jump and bouncing fish away.. mobility is another tool we have against Luigi that makes the MU a lot easier.

if you do all that correctly then you would avoid all grab attempts he tries to go for which is most important. DON'T let him grab you or you'll end up at like 50% off one grab. Thankfully Fair and needles do the job really well though.

You can also try to gimp his recovery; throw a nair when he does side B or go for a bouncing fish.

 

[BigHairyFart]

You can also try to gimp his recovery; throw a nair when he does side B or go for a bouncing fish.

Lol I tried that once, ended with a misfire and a missed stage tech. Also, anytime I fair him, even at proper spacing, I seem to always get shield grabbed.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Lol I tried that once, ended with a misfire and a missed stage tech. Also, anytime I fair him, even at proper spacing, I seem to always get shield grabbed.

Set C stick for tilts and use C stick to space Fair on shield, should be safe.

 

[HFlash]

I know this might be off topic, but how do you guys feel about the TL MU? Their boards (surprisingly so) don't have much to say about her. Feels pretty even, but I may be wrong.

 

[PMMikey]

I might be in the wrong arena, let me know if I am, but I'm actually wondering what are some weak points of sheiks? Like I know shes a strong solid character but what are just somethings I can look for to knock her down.

 

[Dagon97]

I might be in the wrong arena, let me know if I am, but I'm actually wondering what are some weak points of sheiks? Like I know shes a strong solid character but what are just somethings I can look for to knock her down.

Lightweight + Fast faller = Bad things. Poor piority (i think but i am not sure) on most of her moves excluding the obvious fair. Punishable needles. Difficult to deal with pressure like Fox's jab shenanigans. Yeah, some others I am not thinking of.