Ninja Clan Here We Stand! Sheik Match-Up Thread

[SheikIsBae]

Her hight also hinders her, as it makes her susceptible to dash-in Up Smash. This is one of my most-used punishes for a KO on her.

Yes!!

 

[YoHeKing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMAFFwberOY&feature=youtu.be
Yeah Yeah The sheik isn't that good but most likely decent. Had this battle today and the highlights of it were amazing(like most of my battles) but this was a sheik one. I could use more competition for this MU so I can prove to the whole smashboards that Sheik VS Yoshi is not impossible or completely unfair.
I was a bit rusty believe it or not.

 

[Hydreigon360]

Sheik's got a be a bit careful against Lucario. Sheik combos Lucario fairly well and can edge-guard well. Sheik doesn't have a problem approaching Lucario. However due to Lucarios special ability, Lucario can land early KO's on Sheik, a fairly light character. This problem is exasperated by Sheik's problem of being unable to kill easily, meaning Lucario can survive around 130% and KO sheik at 70%. Stages with platforms benefit Sheik in this match-up

 

[Antonykun]

hello sheik mains and lovers the Mii Swordfighter boards are currently having a discussion on Sheik and it would be very nice if some players here would come and visit maybe even say something
http://smashboards.com/threads/swor...rently-discussing-diddy-sheik-and-fox.380027/

 

[YoHeKing]

All the sheik players that added me when ever you would like to battle just add me. Im gonna try so hard to change the thinking of Yoshi VS Sheik 1 by 1 I guess.

 

[Daymaster]

To get around Lucario, I do a few things.
1) He is very comboable, so I strike him until he is at high percent, then change strategies.
2) To get around high-percent Shodowball , I either BF over it or Burst Grenade it and follow up with an Up-Smash.
3) When he is off-stage, it's hard to score a KO from an edge-guard, but you can further rack up % with Bair over and over and over.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Sheik's got a be a bit careful against Lucario. Sheik combos Lucario fairly well and can edge-guard well. Sheik doesn't have a problem approaching Lucario. However due to Lucarios special ability, Lucario can land early KO's on Sheik, a fairly light character. This problem is exasperated by Sheik's problem of being unable to kill easily, meaning Lucario can survive around 130% and KO sheik at 70%. Stages with platforms benefit Sheik in this match-up

Actually Lucario is ridiculously hard to gimp, nearly impossible. His Up B gets more range the more damage you deal to him, (and later on it doesnt matter where he is on the stage, he WILL be able to recover unless the player messes up) and while it's similar to Rosalina and Pit's Up B, unlike those its extremely fast and has a hitbox, so challenging it isn't always the best option. What you can do instead if punish his landing with his Up B if he misses the ledge; it has immense landing lag.

 

[YoHeKing]

His up B has ridiculous start up time. Is extremely easiy to stage spike or spike(non sheik) andhe cant just go recovor above stage like rosalina and them due to his high landing lag afterwards and floaty. It will ne pretty easy to keep attacking him off stage as he trys to recovor back. As a Yoshi main I can juggle lucario over and over by ledge droping into a nair and then 2nd jumo nair again if they recovor again. I do this to rosalina to but its more difficult.

Its extreneky easy to edgaurd a lucario player if you have the tools and the skill. Im pretty sure sheik has the tools.

 

[BigHairyFart]

A good Lucario will usually go for the ledge or go for the sliding landing (ES hitbox comes out while touching the ground and angled between 1-90 degrees from the floor), which is hard to punish.

 

[TheMarthRunner]

Any tips on how to counter a mewtwo?? He is turning into the Airman of Sm4sh for me

 

[YoHeKing]

A good Lucario will usually go for the ledge or go for the sliding landing (ES hitbox comes out while touching the ground and angled between 1-90 degrees from the floor), which is hard to punish.

He has very very few recovory option. Your telling me a 50% read is extremely hard? If lucario recovors from above the stage is so easy to predict wheres he's going. When hes recovoring low you know exactly what to do.

 

[Daymaster]

He has very very few recovory option. Your telling me a 50% read is extremely hard? If lucario recovors from above the stage is so easy to predict wheres he's going. When hes recovoring low you know exactly what to do.

Exactly. Bair for days, man. Too bad it doesn't KO anymore.

 

[ArikadoSD]

He has very very few recovory option. Your telling me a 50% read is extremely hard? If lucario recovors from above the stage is so easy to predict wheres he's going. When hes recovoring low you know exactly what to do.

YoHeKing, I really wanted to avoid minimodding or some of the sort, but you're a Yoshi main that came to the Sheik board to look for Sheik matchup knowledge.. that's fine. But in this thread you're talking about Yoshi's matchups from Yoshi's perspective, keep telling us how everyone thinks the Sheik vs. Yoshi matchup is like 95:5 for Sheik while it's totally not and I personally think it's in Yoshi's favour most of the time, and now you're telling us, Sheik mains who have a lot of experience, how her matchups actually work and that Lucario isn't a bad matchup (when he is) and has a punishable up B ?

Please stop doing that.

 

[YoHeKing]

Im also I sheik main lol

 

[BigHairyFart]

Maybe so, but you're not even contributing to the MU conversation anymore. You're basically barging in and telling us all to fight you.

 

[YoHeKing]

Im here to stay and help. Not to brag to fight you anymote because its a lost cause.

The last thing I said about lucario had nothing to do with yoshi and it made sence. Do you want me to leave because im disagreeing?

 

[SheikIsBae]

Any tips on how to counter a mewtwo?? He is turning into the Airman of Sm4sh for me

Try to keep him in the air. Keep UAir and Bouncing Fish fresh for KOs. Sweet spotted USmash can kill him easily.

If you're caught in Confusion(Mewtwo's SideB) either jump away or hit him with FAir or NAir.

Sheik does pretty well against him. He's light and his smash attacks leave him open so if you get around those, that's the time to get in there and put big damage on. Or even get the KO. Keep an eye of for that USmash though that thing is crazy good.

 

[YoHeKing]

Funny thing is when he air dodges my sheiks fair I can just fastfall another fair because hes so light. Also wouldnt sheiks downtilt and crouching make mewtwo unable to use most of his moves and specials? That would be hilarious if you could approach him with crawling. I should test this out.

 

[Locuan]

Hi everyone, we are restarting discussion for the character match-ups for both Marth and Lucina. This week we face off against Shiek. It would be great if you could help us out!
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-falchions-match-up-discussion-week-1-shiek.402251/

 

[keikashi12]

I think it annoying EVERY sheik and yoshi main I come across thinks its basically impossible for Yoshi to win. All the yoshis that approach sheik use really crappy moves that should not be used in the MU. Then hardly go for the edgaurds and they think its impossible to edguard a sheik when its not. Bouncing fish is very easy to react too and even if it hits yoshi its not going to kill him while hes edgaurding. Well spaced fairs seem kinda hard to punish for sheik and well timed egg lays are great.

Its like im the only one who has hope in the MU. I was hoping to fight some sheiks here for some research. All the sheik players I know I beat so I would like to meet new sheik players.

I'm a sheik main and I've played a couple of yoshi. Some were good some were bad. Now I don't have to play you to understand the matchup because I agree with yoshi weight, some of his disjointed smash attacks, power and he's actually not a simple character to gimp due to his super armor. But then you have sheik which when sheik is played right can actually play the matchup pretty safe and effectively. So that's probAbly why people think it's uneven. In my opinion sheiks frame data is way too good to call it even but I will say it's not far off at all. Yoshi just doesn't have the safe options that sheik has

 

[YoHeKing]

It really depends on how yoshi plays. Yoshis fair while moving with backwards momentum is pretty difficult for her to get around. Besides I gave up on smashboards because theres absolutely no way of talking people or showing them tactics if no yoshi has ever used them in a tourney. Insted I will go to tourneys, do antheras ladder and actually show the proof with a ton of videos. I just dont find 90% of the tourney yoshis very good.

But yeah last of yoshi talk untill I have my "stalling sheik strategie" out and videos of me fighting known sheiks or really good ones.

 

[iLLEST]

It really depends on how yoshi plays. Yoshis fair while moving with backwards momentum is pretty difficult for her to get around. Besides I gave up on smashboards because theres absolutely no way of talking people or showing them tactics if no yoshi has ever used them in a tourney. Insted I will go to tourneys, do antheras ladder and actually show the proof with a ton of videos. I just dont find 90% of the tourney yoshis very good.

But yeah last of yoshi talk untill I have my "stalling sheik strategie" out and videos of me fighting known sheiks or really good ones.

I'm down to play man, I need mu experience, and I play yosh on the side. MSG me your nnid. My skill lvl is above average on fg and "take it to game 3" at locals lol.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Random thoughts on a few MUs:

Against Ness:

Been fighting more and more Nesses lately and I have to say.. it's in our advantage. Ness can be comboed easily despite his misleading size and frame 4 nair. Nair doesn't come out as early as Luigi or Yoshi's nair so we should have an easy time stringing Fair against Ness and beating out his nair especially because fair outranges iirc. He can be gimped easily either with our aerials or from a single needle when he's recovering; rob Ness of his jump (read it and fair to send him off-stage or something when he's trying to recover it), and then just gimp when he's trying to Up B. Needles are extremely good also, he can't camp in the corner forcing approaches to use Bthrow, we can just needle the **** out of him. Bthrow is still good tho, but other than that his kill options are lacking. He has Fsmash which is slow although powerful as hell, as well as bair which is kinda the same (slow but powerful), but if you avoid those/watch out for them plus bthrow it's fine. I think this is easily 6/4 for Sheik.

Against Luigi:

Needles outrange his fireballs by so much, but the matchup isn't as easy as it looks. It's probably in Sheik's favour but it's still really dangerous. Usmash is ridiculously good and shuts down all aerial approaches. His grabs lead to 40-60% followups (wish I was exaggerating), and he has a pretty much confirmed kill set up with dthrow down B. Play the needles game in neutral, reset your fair strings if you think he'll throw a nair before you can follow up, and in general try to space perfectly. this is most likely 55:45 tbh. Robbing his jump is really good but a smart Luigi will always be looking to save it. His recovery is gimpable so always try to capitalize on it.

Against Yoshi:

I still stand by my original statement which is that this is easily in Yoshi's favour. I remember someone saying to bait out his nair and then punish it... how? You literally can't punish his nair. It comes out frame 3, has a stupid hitbox, and lingers forever. You can't camp with needles forever because his eggs are actually extremely good and hard to punish because a smart Yoshi will throw them in the air and follow them up with a nair. His jabs are also extremely good, he has amazing aerial mobility and retreating fairs are very dangerous. In general all his aerials are extremely good; bair is disjointed/multihit, dair does like 32% sweetspotted and pressures shields, fair has range/power/can spike, and I already covered nair. He's also really hard to gimp thanks to super armour on his second jump. I honestly believe this is 6/4 in Yoshi's favour. Sheik can't properly do fair strings, has a hard time gimping, can't needle camp, and dies early to his uair/usmash/fsmash/fair, all of which are good kill moves.

Yoshi can just create a wall with eggs, jabs, and nair, and then he'll just break out of combos and has the tools to win the neutral.

 

[YoHeKing]

Random thoughts on a few MUs:

Against Ness:

Been fighting more and more Nesses lately and I have to say.. it's in our advantage. Ness can be comboed easily despite his misleading size and frame 4 nair. Nair doesn't come out as early as Luigi or Yoshi's nair so we should have an easy time stringing Fair against Ness and beating out his nair especially because fair outranges iirc. He can be gimped easily either with our aerials or from a single needle when he's recovering; rob Ness of his jump (read it and fair to send him off-stage or something when he's trying to recover it), and then just gimp when he's trying to Up B. Needles are extremely good also, he can't camp in the corner forcing approaches to use Bthrow, we can just needle the **** out of him. Bthrow is still good tho, but other than that his kill options are lacking. He has Fsmash which is slow although powerful as hell, as well as bair which is kinda the same (slow but powerful), but if you avoid those/watch out for them plus bthrow it's fine. I think this is easily 6/4 for Sheik.

Against Luigi:

Needles outrange his fireballs by so much, but the matchup isn't as easy as it looks. It's probably in Sheik's favour but it's still really dangerous. Usmash is ridiculously good and shuts down all aerial approaches. His grabs lead to 40-60% followups (wish I was exaggerating), and he has a pretty much confirmed kill set up with dthrow down B. Play the needles game in neutral, reset your fair strings if you think he'll throw a nair before you can follow up, and in general try to space perfectly. this is most likely 55:45 tbh. Robbing his jump is really good but a smart Luigi will always be looking to save it. His recovery is gimpable so always try to capitalize on it.

Against Yoshi:

I still stand by my original statement which is that this is easily in Yoshi's favour. I remember someone saying to bit out his nair and then punish it... how? You literally can't punish his nair. It comes out frame 3, has a stupid hitbox, and lingers forever. You can't camp with needles forever because his eggs are actually extremely good and hard to punish because a smart Yoshi will throw them in the air and follow them up with a nair. His jabs are also extremely good, he has amazing aerial mobility and retreating fairs are very dangerous. In general all his aerials are extremely good; bair is disjointed/multihit, dair does like 32% sweetspotted and pressures shields, fair has range/power/can spike, and I already covered nair. He's also really hard to gimp thanks to super armour on his second jump. I honestly believe this is 6/4 in Yoshi's favour. Sheik can't properly do fair strings, has a hard time gimping, can't needle camp, and dies early to his uair/usmash/fsmash/fair, all of which are good kill moves.

Yoshi can just create a wall with eggs, jabs, and nair, and then he'll just break out of combos and has the tools to win the neutral.

This is great. You explain what I cant. I dont think the mu is in Yoshis favor but yoshis weight actually could make it uneven. Yoshi screws up sheiks defensive play and when sheik goes offensive its like none of her hitboxes can go through.

Great comment though.

 

[SheikIsBae]

Random thoughts on a few MUs:

Against Ness:

Been fighting more and more Nesses lately and I have to say.. it's in our advantage. Ness can be comboed easily despite his misleading size and frame 4 nair. Nair doesn't come out as early as Luigi or Yoshi's nair so we should have an easy time stringing Fair against Ness and beating out his nair especially because fair outranges iirc. He can be gimped easily either with our aerials or from a single needle when he's recovering; rob Ness of his jump (read it and fair to send him off-stage or something when he's trying to recover it), and then just gimp when he's trying to Up B. Needles are extremely good also, he can't camp in the corner forcing approaches to use Bthrow, we can just needle the **** out of him. Bthrow is still good tho, but other than that his kill options are lacking. He has Fsmash which is slow although powerful as hell, as well as bair which is kinda the same (slow but powerful), but if you avoid those/watch out for them plus bthrow it's fine. I think this is easily 6/4 for Sheik.

Against Luigi:

Needles outrange his fireballs by so much, but the matchup isn't as easy as it looks. It's probably in Sheik's favour but it's still really dangerous. Usmash is ridiculously good and shuts down all aerial approaches. His grabs lead to 40-60% followups (wish I was exaggerating), and he has a pretty much confirmed kill set up with dthrow down B. Play the needles game in neutral, reset your fair strings if you think he'll throw a nair before you can follow up, and in general try to space perfectly. this is most likely 55:45 tbh. Robbing his jump is really good but a smart Luigi will always be looking to save it. His recovery is gimpable so always try to capitalize on it.

Against Yoshi:

I still stand by my original statement which is that this is easily in Yoshi's favour. I remember someone saying to bit out his nair and then punish it... how? You literally can't punish his nair. It comes out frame 3, has a stupid hitbox, and lingers forever. You can't camp with needles forever because his eggs are actually extremely good and hard to punish because a smart Yoshi will throw them in the air and follow them up with a nair. His jabs are also extremely good, he has amazing aerial mobility and retreating fairs are very dangerous. In general all his aerials are extremely good; bair is disjointed/multihit, dair does like 32% sweetspotted and pressures shields, fair has range/power/can spike, and I already covered nair. He's also really hard to gimp thanks to super armour on his second jump. I honestly believe this is 6/4 in Yoshi's favour. Sheik can't properly do fair strings, has a hard time gimping, can't needle camp, and dies early to his uair/usmash/fsmash/fair, all of which are good kill moves.

Yoshi can just create a wall with eggs, jabs, and nair, and then he'll just break out of combos and has the tools to win the neutral.

I agree with all of this.

Another thing against Ness is that if Sheik is hit by PK Fire and Ness tries to go for a grab, you can mash the A button and the 1st hit will repeatedly hit Ness until PK Fire wears off. People probably already know that, but I find it to pretty useful if I get caught in that move lol.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

He's also really hard to gimp thanks to super armour on his second jump.

footstool, also it's heavy armor and stops working at high %s.

I honestly believe this is 6/4 in Yoshi's favour. Sheik can't properly do fair strings, has a hard time gimping, can't needle camp, and dies early to his uair/usmash/fsmash/fair, all of which are good kill moves.

Yoshi can just create a wall with eggs, jabs, and nair, and then he'll just break out of combos and has the tools to win the neutral.

I believe it's in Sheik's favor because she has an easy time in neutral since her fair beats almost every option Yoshi has. All Sheik has to do is play the neutral until Yoshi dies from a stray hit. Let's talk about Yoshi's kill options:
uair requires you to be above Yoshi for it to kill pretty much, it can kill at very high %s on the ground though.
Up smash is good, ok startup and endlag, good power. Slightly telegraphed but can get the job done.
Fsmash is powerful but slow, can be punished easily.
fair doesn't kill onstage until very high %s and I don't see how Sheik would get edgeguarded if she recovers properly, but I'll assume it can happen.
down B is his fastest kill option and one of his strongest but massive endlag. Not good against shields because you can roll.
down smash at very high %s this quick move becomes viable. High endlag though.
nair at very high %s unstaled (like if Yoshi just died I guess) kills.

Let's talk about the big problem with all of these.. if you hold up shield, Yoshi cannot kill you. If you are ever afraid of dying hold up shield. If he grabs you? Congrats you have more rage and kill earlier now. whooo

Yoshi can still kill easier than Sheik but not significantly better to the point where it's worth mentioning in the matchup like Ness for example, and that's one of the bigger reasons I think Sheik wins.

( I noticed a couple typos before submitting so there're probably more sorry)

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

ok so a lot of that got cut off and I didn't realize that would happen. Please forgive the double post.

I still stand by my original statement which is that this is easily in Yoshi's favour. I remember someone saying to bait out his nair and then punish it... how? You literally can't punish his nair. It comes out frame 3, has a stupid hitbox, and lingers forever.

shield it or punish the tiny lingering hitboxes. Shield grab work if he lands in front of you in case you somehow didn't know that.

His jabs are also extremely good

shield, grab

retreating fairs are very dangerous.

dash and shield, he will be cornered eventually or open to a punish. You can also attack him before the move comes out because it has high startup. Still risky but possible.

bair is disjointed/multihit

No? I tired to use it against Sheik but it kept getting beaten by her fair.

 

[Dyce]

Yoshi is kind of free now that I see it. It's to the point where Yoshi is probably top 10-15 in the game. Sheik vs Yoshi might be slightly in her favor. My rationale is based on the fact that Yoshi players WANT you to approach them. They'll throw eggs to make Sheik approach and we fall for it. We should be powershielding the eggs and run up power shield it. Yoshi will be naturally inclined to throw out a punish, but that's when Sheik can capitalize and get a small string in. Our needles, when placed right, will be able to beat the eggs and well as damage them. We want Yoshi to approach us, not the other way around. It's a matchup where Sheik has to play patiently and the footsies game needs to be on top. Mix up empty short hops to stay unpredictable.

Honestly, Sheik probably doesn't even have a bad matchup in this game. Not even Lucario or D3 or Rosa.

 

[keikashi12]

Yoshi is kind of free now that I see it. It's to the point where Yoshi is probably top 10-15 in the game. Sheik vs Yoshi might be slightly in her favor. My rationale is based on the fact that Yoshi players WANT you to approach them. They'll throw eggs to make Sheik approach and we fall for it. We should be powershielding the eggs and run up power shield it. Yoshi will be naturally inclined to throw out a punish, but that's when Sheik can capitalize and get a small string in. Our needles, when placed right, will be able to beat the eggs and well as damage them. We want Yoshi to approach us, not the other way around. It's a matchup where Sheik has to play patiently and the footsies game needs to be on top. Mix up empty short hops to stay unpredictable.

Honestly, Sheik probably doesn't even have a bad matchup in this game. Not even Lucario or D3 or Rosa.

Thank you finally someone understands. I'm a sheik main and yoshi has never given me serious trouble to where I would consider him better than sheik. I don't know where people are getting their data from but like you said, sheik shouldn't be getting baited into approaches by yoshi. Make that yoshi respect you and control the pace of the match like sheik usually does and you should beat yoshi out. Ill go as far to say The matchup is pretty close because of how good yoshi is, but yoshi is not a bad matchup for sheik and I'm a sheik main. Sheik has better tools and no sheik player should be getting blindlessly baited by a yoshi into weird positions lol.

 

[YoHeKing]

You cant sheild grab a good yoshi. He we land on which ever side of the sheild he wants and he has 4 frames of landing lag. His nair sets like 10 frames of sheilding. You cant predict a good yoshi. He can approach with all his aerials and even land approach/ trick you. His first jab is extremely safe to. If you sheild his 1st jab he could easily jump away or even jump into a nair.

Sheiks fair has absolutely no range compared to yoshi. In fact yoshis nair has more range. Besides strings and combos are almost impossible with yoshi. So sheik cant rack up damage.

Good yoshis hardly every get gimped or edguarded. Nothing can get through those annoying . Besides yoshis 2nd jump vertical and horizontal speed can be combined into a air dodge for invincibility all the way up till he reaches max height.

Yoshi stops her combos which is a game changer. Sheik that uses bouncing fish to recovor is a free hit for yoshi and could be deadly.

Yoshis back air beats all of sheiks aireals. A GOOD YOSHI ONLY uses it for edguarding, lag canceling or combined with combos or if sheiks in air.

Also yoshi shouldnt really be letting sheik approach. Campy yoshi dosnt do as good as a yoshi who baits out attacks or uses really tricky approaches like 2nd jumping or even up air normally does good. Sheiks back air nerf kinda screwed her in this MU. It was the only aireal that truly beat some of ours.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

You cant sheild grab a good yoshi. He we land on which ever side of the sheild he wants and he has 4 frames of landing lag. His nair sets like 10 frames of sheilding. You cant predict a good yoshi. He can approach with all his aerials and even land approach/ trick you. His first jab is extremely safe to. If you sheild his 1st jab he could easily jump away or even jump into a nair.

I'm not sure which aerial you're referring to having 4 frames of landing lag, but none of them do. Yoshi's nair has 10 frames for example, and most fairs will be autocancelled which is 4 frames on landing. Shieldstun is not nearly that much in Smash 4. If Yoshi lands with a nair in front of Sheik that's a free shield grab. 1st jab mixups are good, it's not "safe" though.

Sheiks fair has absolutely no range compared to yoshi. In fact yoshis nair has more range. Besides strings and combos are almost impossible with yoshi. So sheik cant rack up damage.

I don't know if Sheik's fair has more range than Yoshi's initial hit of nair, but that only lasts for 2 frames and it DEFINITELY has much less range than any of shieks aerials once it's lingering.

 

[YoHeKing]

Nair has enough range to beat out sheiks fair horizontal but idk vertical.

Anyways im pretty sure yoshis nair had 10 frames? Either way if yoshi is nairing on sheild in a none tricky way your fighting bad yoshis. Yoshis safe on nairing away or on the back of sheilds if yoshis momentum is moving away from sheik. Yoshi shouldnt be nairing much anyways as approaches. He has tons of mix ups like 2nd jump nairing on sheild which is almost impossible to punish.

Also his first jab with his sliding back crawl trick is super safe I ment. Using jab on sheild are dangerous unless the 1st jab is spaced well. His sliding back crawl also makes some of his other moves safe.

Also yoshis nair has 10 frames of sheild stun which I read many places. Ive never confirmed it but it does have safe sheild stun. Not exactly safe but its safe to a certain amount.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Nairs on the back of shield are safe unless it's powershielded. The retreating nairs are not safe even if he's already moving away from sheik. If it's used as a combo breaker it can be baited out and punished which is mostly what I was talking about with nair from earlier.

It really seems like your argument is Yoshi will win if he plays much better than Sheik which is how a disadvantageous matchup is won.

 

[Ritronaut]

I need quite a lot of help on the yoshi matchup with sheik as well. What I have learned is that if you can manage to bait out the second jump, you have to really PUT ON THE PRESSURE and I mean PRESSURE. Fair does this fairly well, you really want to fair them off of the stage, though It is very annoying to try to gimp Yoshi because his air movement is ridiculous. A campy playstyle will generally reward you in this matchup, since I don't think eggs can help Yoshi from too far away against needles. If playing customs vs yoshi, definitely use your normal needles since you can not shield poke yoshi and these grant you more damage. I think the main thing you really have to practice vs yoshi is perfect/power shielding. Power shielding is insanely important here. Power shield those annoying eggs to approach, power shield those fairs to get a punish, power shield the nair to punish.

 

[Dyce]

Nair has enough range to beat out sheiks fair horizontal but idk vertical. Anyways im pretty sure yoshis nair had 10 frames? Either way if yoshi is nairing on sheild in a none tricky way your fighting bad yoshis. Yoshis safe on nairing away or on the back of sheilds if yoshis momentum is moving away from sheik. Yoshi shouldnt be nairing much anyways as approaches. He has tons of mix ups like 2nd jump nairing on sheild which is almost impossible to punish. Also his first jab with his sliding back crawl trick is super safe I ment. Using jab on sheild are dangerous unless the 1st jab is spaced well. His sliding back crawl also makes some of his other moves safe. Also yoshis nair has 10 frames of sheild stun which I read many places. Ive never confirmed it but it does have safe sheild stun. Not exactly safe but its safe to a certain amount.

I mean, I would gladly show you why the matchup isn't in Yoshi's favor. ^_____^ Yoshi has to approach. You can't say "a good Yoshi wouldn't get grabbed" and anything similar to it as that's not how a matchup analysis should be. If that were the case, a good Sheik wouldn't fall for your tricks either. Character to character the match up is even or in Sheik's favor ever so slightly. If I get the percent lead, you're forced to approach or camp. If you approach, Yoshi WILL be punished. If you want to camp, well, Sheik has an amazing projectile in the neutral. Gg Yoshi.

 

[YoHeKing]

Dang I always act like yoshis impossible to beat but thats not what I mean. Yoshi has to play good to actually keep the MU even. He needs correct spacing. I goof up like probably 10% or less of my spacing and when I miss my spacing I can get punished hard or little. Maybe my really good spacing is whats keeping me thinking that the MU is not uneven. I dont mess up my spacing right at all and im the yoshi and sheik player that barly ever uses projectiles unless I need to to recovor or space correctly for the MU.

This is what makes the MU even in my opinion. Yoshi and sheik can NEVER EVER play at perfect levels. Yoshi can mess up and get punished while sheik is a bit diffrent. Her aireals are alot more safe and her approaches. Alot of mistakes from a sheik plays dont have crazy punishes. She can fair on yoshis sheild and get away with it. BUT with yoshis hitboxs on his fair, bair, neutral B and up air ALL basically beat sheiks aireals. Its really hard for a sheik to hit a yoshi when his momentum is going away from sheik while he uses some of his moves. Yoshi beats sheiks hitboxes and air momentum. But without spacing yoshi sucks and sheik would win.

So I think spacing has a big deal in the MU. A yoshi who spaces very well could definitely make the MU even or maybe even uneven.

I think the MU is even. If any of you would like to show me go for it. I.actually wouldnt mind.

 

[Spirst]

The Mewtwo boards will be discussing Sheik as part of this week's matchup discussion. It would be very helpful if some of you could come along and try to contribute. I understand that there may not be much to go on considering how young the character is but any input would be helpful and appreciated. From what I can see so far, this MU seems to favor Sheik (shocker) but Mewtwo's KO ability does warrant some degree of respect.

<- Click to Teleport to the MU thread.

 

[SupremeSuperiorStick]

I think we should re evaluate some match ups which I feel have changed after the patch. I wanted to talk about the Sheik-Sonic match up which my friend argues is a lot more in Sheik's favour now after Sonic's B-Throw was nerfed. I feel that the match up is still even, because even Sheik was hit hard by the patch due to her Bair nerf.



Btw since we are talking about the Yoshi match up, I would argue it's in Yoshi's favour definitely, if not even.

 

[YoHeKing]

Gosh. 45% of the people think its in yoshis favor. 45% think its in sheiks favor. And me and 10% of the people think its even. Im guessing this MU will definitely be discussed untill somthing big happens like aMSa melee yoshi comes to smash4 and fights the worlds best sheik. Lol im kidding but this MU is never gonna end.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I think we should re evaluate some match ups which I feel have changed after the patch. I wanted to talk about the Sheik-Sonic match up which my friend argues is a lot more in Sheik's favour now after Sonic's B-Throw was nerfed. I feel that the match up is still even, because even Sheik was hit hard by the patch due to her Bair nerf.



Btw since we are talking about the Yoshi match up, I would argue it's in Yoshi's favour definitely, if not even.

I think the Sheik vs. Sonic mu is pretty even, yeah. Sonic's bthrow /still/ kills at like 130% which is something, and he has a ridiculously strong Fsmash which is admittedly hard to hit but still, also all his smash attacks are pretty good, bair can kill, etc. Needles are good in this matchup tho.

I'm not much experienced in the mu besides that though, that + the Rosalina matchup (and Yoshi as well) are ones I need to get better at.

Gosh. 45% of the people think its in yoshis favor. 45% think its in sheiks favor. And me and 10% of the people think its even. Im guessing this MU will definitely be discussed untill somthing big happens like aMSa melee yoshi comes to smash4 and fights the worlds best sheik. Lol im kidding but this MU is never gonna end.

aMSa doesn't use Yoshi in sm4sh