Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

[Guynamednelson]

taking some inspiration from Melee while still doing your own style

Is airdashing not that? Universal cargo throws? Grabbing projectiles/reflecting them with strongs? The RPS system with strong attacks?

(admittedly I do think cargo throws maybe should've been saved for just bigger characters/Patrick, but they probably didn't have time to animate all the throws necessary for Smash's system)

Also haphazardly inserting rest

I think they were just having fun with the fact that they had Nigel on their roster, it's not like they literally put Jigglypuff's moveset on a documentary host.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Is airdashing not that? Universal cargo throws? Grabbing projectiles/reflecting them with strongs? The RPS system with strong attacks?

(admittedly I do think cargo throws maybe should've been saved for just bigger characters/Patrick, but they probably didn't have time to animate all the throws necessary for Smash's system)

I think they were just having fun with the fact that they had Nigel on their roster, it's not like they literally put Jigglypuff's moveset on a documentary host.

It's clearly not enough if many still don't think NASB did enough to have more of a unique identity. To many it's blatantly just a remixed Melee and there's a reason it had comparisons to Melee since the beginning. It has a Melee gameplay loop with only a few changes. It leaned too hard onto using Melee ideas and not enough new ones. Wavedashing was not necessary and neither was the blatant shine and rest copies.

Sure, doesn't really change my point though especially when Nigel had a ton of potential without the Jigglypuff reference. Including random Smash staples like that in a game already marketing the "funny Melee wavedashing" isn't really doing NASB favors. Spending your launch pandering to Hbox and Smash players won't get a crowd that appreciates Nick for what it is (as proven by the 90% player drop instantaneously).

 

[Guynamednelson]

Spending your launch pandering to Hbox and Smash players won't get a crowd that appreciates Nick for what it is (as proven by the 90% player drop instantaneously).

Nick Kart Racers 3 isn't taking the world by storm by not having the supposed issues with NASB's launch. You're not wanting the game to be more accessible, you're complaining the devs had fun with making the game.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Nick Kart Racers 3 isn't taking the world by storm by not having the supposed issues with NASB's launch. You're not wanting the game to be more accessible, you're complaining the devs had fun with making the game.

And the Kart Racers had more appreciation for what they were and isn't getting a ton of backlash, now is it? Even ****ing Garfield Kart has more players than NASB right now. I'm giving multiple reasons why NASB is getting the reception it has and I find the reception it got completely fair for how the game chose to present itself. NASB wanted to pander to Melee players so it's only fair that many don't think NASB has much of an identity as it'd rather focus on being that same glitchy "le wavedash" messy game in Melee's niche, being at odds with most Nickelodeon fans in general.

"You're complaining the devs had fun with making the game" Thanks for the accusation and assumptions. How dare I criticize Nick Brawl and its choices, right? You're acting exactly like certain rabid fans that can't handle people criticizing a product. "Just consume, don't ask questions". They can have fun all they want, it doesn't make them immune to criticism. I had fun with NASB, people are allowed to be dissatisfied and think the game could've been something better than the Melee approach.

I personally agree that insanely creative characters like PTM and Nigel deserved better than being stuck with Melee references.

 

[Guynamednelson]

isn't getting a ton of backlash, now is it?

Well they also don't have a lot of fans either. That's the problem: Wanting the game to be accessible means nothing when GameMill's lack of marketing budgets would mean only those actively seeking Nickeleodeon products would seek out the game. By having wavedashing and PTM instead of sticking to whatever Nick's boring roster was and having no advanced mechanics, it had pre-launch hype beyond hardcore Nickelodeon fans.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Well they also don't have a lot of fans either. That's the problem: Wanting the game to be accessible means nothing when GameMill's lack of marketing budgets would mean only those actively seeking Nickeleodeon products would seek out the game. By having wavedashing and PTM instead of sticking to whatever Nick's boring roster was and having no advanced mechanics, it had pre-launch hype beyond hardcore Nickelodeon fans.

Only for that hype to fizzle out immediately because of the game's own shortcomings, not because of Gamemill's "lack of marketing". There are a lot of flaws with the game itself and some of the choices here that make people believe NASB doesn't have a big identity (which does turn people away, like it or not). And accusing me of just complaining over the devs having fun because I don't agree with every decision they made is the most nonsensical "consume product or shut up" bull**** I've ever heard. I've been giving all sorts of fair reasons why Nick Brawl is received as poorly as it is.

 

[Guynamednelson]

There are a lot of flaws with the game itself and some of the choices here that make people believe NASB doesn't have a big identity (which does turn people away, like it or not

Even if its gameplay leaned more towards later Smashes, there'd still be people accusing the game of just being a dumb Smash clone, in fact it'd probably be even worse if it was like SSBU without the roster count. That's another thing you don't get, a lot of people just want to stare at play Smash, not look for alternatives.

And accusing me of just complaining over the devs having fun is the most nonsensical "consume product or shut up" bull**** I've ever heard.

You didn't have to repeat that twice.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

glitchy "le wavedash" messy game

Melee is bad because it's glitchy? Ever heard of Space Invaders?

Anyway, NASB is literally nothing like Melee, and the ways it is like Melee are just how the genre works - platform fighters as they exist today were built off of Melee and Project M, not Brawl/Wii U/Ultimate, one is simply a better blueprint, just like how modern tradfighters are built off of Street Fighter 2 and not Street Fighter 1.

Anyway, if you've got a problem with derivative moveset design, you should probably take that out with Slap City - Orka is probably the closest you can get to a Little Mac clone without veering into copyright infringement.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Even if its gameplay leaned more towards later Smashes, there'd still be people accusing the game of just being a dumb Smash clone.

You didn't have to repeat that twice.

Or you could not lean towards Smash as much? The most successful platform fighters right now are the ones that forged its own path while keeping the inspirations to a minimum. Rivals, Brawlhalla, and MVS are praised for doing so many different things from Smash Bros. The best parts of NASB are its unique ideas, shame it's not as much as I'd like since it'd rather take too much Melee. It really didn't need wavedashing, anime fighter esque airdashing covered all of that and it was so much cooler. There will always be dumb people calling things Smash clones but NASB would have more people appreciating it for what it is like these other platform fighters.

Frankly, what you told me was needless and just absurd. It irked me that you're making stuff about me just because I choose to understand the NASB backlash and speak on the numerous criticisms the game got. Especially when a lot of the reasonable gripes are being reduced to "the Smash players not knowing what they're talking about!" in this thread.

Melee is bad because it's glitchy? Ever heard of Space Invaders?

Anyway, NASB is literally nothing like Melee, and the ways it is like Melee are just how the genre works - platform fighters as they exist today were built off of Melee and Project M, not Brawl/Wii U/Ultimate, one is simply a better blueprint, just like how modern tradfighters are built off of Street Fighter 2 and not Street Fighter 1.

How on earth did you take away "Melee bad because it's glitchy" from my point. I'm saying that it's Melee's niche and NASB overlapped with it too much. "Just how the genre works" clearly not when the most successful platform fighters that didn't flop or vanish into discord are the ones who are directly doing new things than taking so much from Melee. NASB is blatantly more Melee inspired than it needed to be. Brawlhalla, MVS, and Rivals show you can be just fine without pandering to the Melee crowd so much. They did not need to give special accommodations to Hungrybox the way they did imo...

I have seen multiple people feel demotivated from playing NASB because of the sheer insistence of constantly pandering to Melee to the point of marketing the game with wavedashing for the Melee player views.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Rivals

You know if you're going to say NASB leans too much into Melee you shouldn't point out Rivals as better at being different from Smash. Furthermore, Brawlhalla and MVS are F2P so it's easier to get into them if your interest in looking at non-Smash platform fighters is extremely mild (AKA you don't want to wavedash).

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

You know if you're going to say NASB leans too much into Melee you shouldn't point out Rivals as better at being different from Smash.

Rivals did a lot of unique ideas especially in the moveset department. It made an effort to advance on Smash's outdated concepts. Like how badly Smash Bros handled counters, Rivals really got creative with that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Rivals did a lot of unique ideas especially in the moveset department

Yes, but it's still trying to be somewhat like Melee with different movesets. Right down to the dreaded wavedashing.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Yes, but it's still trying to be somewhat like Melee with different movesets. Right down to the dreaded wavedashing.

Rivals still did a better job at standing out since it'd rather do fully fresh movesets than rehashing staples like rest. And even then, Rivals is still fairly niche for a reason. Brawlhalla and MVS are the best examples, they outshine the other platform fighters very hard because it didn't try to take from Smash's formula so much. But again, this is only one of the many reasons NASB got the reception it has as I've clarified before already. Taking so much from Melee to the point of specifically having a character showcase pander to Hbox is just one of the many criticized problems.

NASB really wasn't beginner friendly.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Rivals still did a better job at standing out since it'd rather do fully fresh movesets than rehashing staples like rest

So why not just say "I wish the movesets were more unique" if Melee gameplay is okay as long as the movesets are more distinct?

 

[Ze Diglett]

It's clearly not enough if many still don't think NASB did enough to have more of a unique identity. To many it's blatantly just a remixed Melee and there's a reason it had comparisons to Melee since the beginning. It has a Melee gameplay loop with only a few changes. It leaned too hard onto using Melee ideas and not enough new ones. Wavedashing was not necessary and neither was the blatant shine and rest copies.

I feel like by your logic, most modern platform fighters are just copying Melee. Rivals of Aether? Just another half-assed Melee clone. Nevermind the unique mechanics, nuanced movement differences, and overhauled recovery system, it has wavedashing and one of the characters is basically Marth, so CLEARLY they were trying too hard to pander to fans of a game you don't play instead of forging a unique identity. (Of course none of this is true because Rivals has some of the most unique characters and gameplay in the entire genre, which I really think could be said for NASB as well.)

And the Kart Racers had more appreciation for what they were and isn't getting a ton of backlash, now is it? Even ****ing Garfield Kart has more players than NASB right now. I'm giving multiple reasons why NASB is getting the reception it has and I find the reception it got completely fair for how the game chose to present itself. NASB wanted to pander to Melee players so it's only fair that many don't think NASB has much of an identity as it'd rather focus on being that same glitchy "le wavedash" messy game in Melee's niche, being at odds with most Nickelodeon fans in general.

At this point mate, I'm starting to think you just hate wavedashing. Which is fine, you can stick to Ultimate, the only modern platform fighter that refuses to incorporate wavedashing in any form.

Or you could not lean towards Smash as much? The most successful platform fighters right now are the ones that forged its own path while keeping the inspirations to a minimum. Rivals, Brawlhalla, and MVS are praised for doing so many different things from Smash Bros. The best parts of NASB are its unique ideas, shame it's so few since it'd rather take too much Melee. It really didn't need wavedashing, anime fighter esque airdashing covered all of that and it was so much cooler. There will always be dumb people calling things Smash clones but NASB would have more people appreciating it for what it is like these other platform fighters.

Wavedashing came out of airdashing, though... unless the devs decided to tack a ton of landing lag frames onto the airdash for some weird reason, wavedashing was gonna be in the game no matter what. Do you really want the devs to make the game feel worse just so it doesn't have wavedashing in it? (I mean, that's exactly what Ultimate does, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised if that's the case.)
Either way, people don't hate on NASB because it has wavedashing in it, nor for being too derivative of Smash to begin with. If anything, they hated it for not mimicking the volume of content and polish of Smash to a T at launch. NASB got backlash for how it TRIED to stand out from Smash, not for playing things too safe or pandering to Hbox or whatever.

Rivals still did a better job at standing out since it'd rather do fully fresh movesets than rehashing staples like rest. And even then, Rivals is still fairly niche for a reason. Brawlhalla and MVS are the best examples, they outshine the other platform fighters very hard because it didn't try to take from Smash's formula so much. But again, this is only one of the many reasons NASB got the reception it has as I've clarified before already. Taking so much from Melee to the point of specifically having a character showcase pander to Hbox is just one of the many criticized problems.

I think there are a few very important common factors between MVS and Brawlhalla that you might not be accounting for here. Think pricing and brand appeal, and I think you'll realize why those games have such high playercounts compared to every other non-Smash platform fighter.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

NASB really wasn't beginner friendly.

Past tense? Did NASB just disappear one day like a creepypasta?

Also, NASB is one of the most beginner friendly platfighters out there - in fact I'd argue it's a lot easier for beginners to pick up and play than Smash with its simplified control scheme. Smash's input scheme may be grained into the public's conciousness now, but it was ultimately just designed to be a technical showoff for a console that's main marketing gimmick was it's 360 joystick inputs - pressing up to jump in a platformer and having a single intensity-sensitive button for both strongs and lights in a fighting game aren't common nor good design.

can we go back to the rugrats debate or something please. even hugh discourse is better than this

 

[Guynamednelson]

can we go back to the rugrats debate or something please

uh

they added reptar because he's not a baby and no other reason

please do not look at the twitter hashtag #rugrats and the emoji placed next to it

 

[Baysha]

even hugh discourse is better than this

I sure am disgruntled that the developers of Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl added Hugh Neutron from The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius into the roster instead of Jimmy Neutron from The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

the only reason you'd ever want to put a fire-breathing kaiju in a fighting game is so people don't accuse you of wanting to beat up babies, clearly

 

[fogbadge]

the only reason you'd ever want to put a fire-breathing kaiju in a fighting game is so people don't accuse you of wanting to beat up babies, clearly

im fair certain that’s not why bowser got in. Oh you mean reptar

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

NASB is one of the most beginner friendly platfighters out there

NASB put so much emphasis on competitive play and deep mechanics with no tutorial to even introduce players to what the game has to offer. It's not beginner friendly at all. Many didn't even know you could change your control scheme as the game doesn't go do a good job telling you these things. Even Slap had a proper tutorial so it's clearly a necessary design process. NASB was just rushed sadly.

I feel like by your logic, most modern platform fighters are just copying Melee. Rivals of Aether? Just another half-assed Melee clone. Nevermind the unique mechanics, nuanced movement differences, and overhauled recovery system, it has wavedashing and one of the characters is basically Marth, so CLEARLY they were trying too hard to pander to fans of a game you don't play instead of forging a unique identity. (Of course none of this is true because Rivals has some of the most unique characters and gameplay in the entire genre, which I really think could be said for NASB as well.)

At this point mate, I'm starting to think you just hate wavedashing. Which is fine, you can stick to Ultimate, the only modern platform fighter that refuses to incorporate wavedashing in any form.

Wavedashing came out of airdashing, though... unless the devs decided to tack a ton of landing lag frames onto the airdash for some weird reason, wavedashing was gonna be in the game no matter what. Do you really want the devs to make the game feel worse just so it doesn't have wavedashing in it? (I mean, that's exactly what Ultimate does, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised if that's the case.)
Either way, people don't hate on NASB because it has wavedashing in it, nor for being too derivative of Smash to begin with. If anything, they hated it for not mimicking the volume of content and polish of Smash to a T at launch. NASB got backlash for how it TRIED to stand out from Smash, not for playing things too safe or pandering to Hbox or whatever.

I think there are a few very important common factors between MVS and Brawlhalla that you might not be accounting for here. Think pricing and brand appeal, and I think you'll realize why those games have such high playercounts compared to every other non-Smash platform fighter.

NASB literally pandered to Hungrybox. You can't get anymore "chasing the Melee crowd" than that. It directly gives that impression for many outsiders.

I wish you people would stop projecting on me. I literally said I had fun with the game, I'm saying many people find it too similar to Melee and don't want to play it. With NASB struggling to have a more concrete identity for many. It directly takes the Smash formula and doesn't do as much as I wish it did. Even the ****ing menus approach Smash's design philosophy. Why!? This is why platform fighters get called clones.

Airdashing was the better and more thought through mechanic. It has properly accounted for animation than the janky "animation" of wavedashing and it's far more used than simple wavedashing. "They hated it because tried to stand out from Smash" what is this revisionist history lol. You're lying to yourself to make up such a dishonest narrative about anyone who criticizes the game. NASB was disliked because of its very flaws the devs admitted and many didn't find a reason to play it long due to said flaws and similarities. Many Melee and Smash players (the people who got the game marketed to them to the point early copies were ONLY given to Smash streamers) even said that they could just play Melee than a game taking so much heavy handed inspiration from it.

"Brand appeal!" Brawlhalla had to hinge on OCs with any brand characters being skins. It earned an audience that genuinely likes playing the game with actual stable online. By your own logic, NASB should've been the next big thing for having a ridiculously big brand. It had Spongebob and Garfield. But as I've elaborated many times, it had a slew of problems with the focus on being super hype competitive Melee-esque game really dwindling a potential audience as one of the many problems.

So why not just say "I wish the movesets were more unique" if Melee gameplay is okay as long as the movesets are more distinct?

I can criticize and point out multiple things than just that like I've been doing this whole time. Rivals does do more than heavy handed Melee inspiration, but even then, it's still niche. NASB focused so hard on Melee that I have already seen many believe NASB leans the hardest on Melee. You guys were complaining about why NASB was not treated well earlier and I'm giving reasons from others' experiences.

 

[Ze Diglett]

NASB literally pandered to Hungrybox. You can't get anymore "chasing the Melee crowd" than that. It directly gives that impression for many outsiders.

I still don't know what you mean by that; you keep just saying it without explaining what it means. Is it because Nigel is maybe vaguely similar to Jigglypuff in terms of archetype (but not really)?

I wish you people would stop projecting on me. I literally said I had fun with the game, I'm saying many people find it too similar to Melee and don't want to play it. With NASB struggling to have a more concrete identity for many. It directly takes the Smash formula and doesn't do as much as I wish it did. Even the ****ing menus approach Smash's design philosophy. Why!? This is why platform fighters get called clones.

I'm just saying, you're very insistent on this whole "wavedashing bad" bent you seem to be on. I never got the impression that NASB was just trying to copy Smash, especially coming off of other platform fighters that also carve out a unique niche. People who call platform fighters "Smash clones" just haven't played them enough to appreciate the nuanced differences between them; these same people would probably call Mortal Kombat a Street Fighter clone.

Airdashing was the better and more thought through mechanic. It has properly accounted for animation than the janky "animation" of wavedashing and it's far more used than simple wavedashing. "They hated it because tried to stand out from Smash" what is this revisionist history lol. You're lying to yourself to make up such a dishonest narrative about anyone who criticizes the game. NASB was disliked because of its very flaws the devs admitted and many didn't find a reason to play it long due to said flaws and similarities. Many Melee and Smash players (the people who got the game marketed to them to the point early copies were ONLY given to Smash streamers) even said that they could just play Melee than a game taking so much heavy handed inspiration from it.

It is literally true lol. I've spoken to plenty of people who relentlessly hate on NASB any time it's brought up, and of all the times I've heard them moan about it, "it's just trying to copy Smash" has never been one of their reasons. They hate it because they chose Hugh instead of Jimmy, or the animations are janky, or the music sucks, or certain characters having infinites at launch, etc. Nothing to do with the game not having a unique identity; you're literally the first person I've ever heard say that. Like, of course pro Melee players and Smash players are gonna say "I can just play Smash" because it's what they know and already like.

"Brand appeal!" Brawlhalla had to hinge on OCs with any brand characters being skins. It earned an audience that genuinely likes playing the game with actual stable online. By your own logic, NASB should've been the next big thing for having a ridiculously big brand. It had Spongebob and Garfield. But as I've elaborated many times, it had a slew of problems with the focus on being super hype competitive Melee-esque game really dwindling a potential audience as one of the many problems.

Yes, Brawlhalla's attempt at brand appeal is dumb, you don't have to convince me of that. But even if just as lame-ass skins, the game having those characters had a demonstrable effect on the game's popularity; I think there's a reason the game's playercount skyrocketed in the years after it started stapling a disjointed potpourri of random brands to itself. You can argue they had a solid base before that, but you can't just ignore it as a factor. (Also, Brawlhalla is "free" while NASB is 50 dollars. That's kind of important, especially since a lot of people still don't think that NASB earns that $50 pricetag.)

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm saying many people find it too similar to Melee and don't want to play it

And they still won't play it if the gameplay is less similar to Melee.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I wish you people would stop projecting on me. I literally said I had fun with the game, I'm saying many people find it too similar to Melee and don't want to play it. With NASB struggling to have a more concrete identity for many. It directly takes the Smash formula and doesn't do as much as I wish it did. Even the ****ing menus approach Smash's design philosophy. Why!? This is why platform fighters get called clones.

Well to tell you the truth, I’ve kinda grown tired of what non players think of NASB because 9 times out of 10 they just get things blatantly wrong about the game or think it’s something different than it actually is. I genuinely don’t follow the logic of how a platform fighter with three directional attacks, aerial strongs, direction based parries, RPS mechanics, universal cargo carrying, catch and hit back projectiles, strafing and of course air dashing make the game more derivative of Melee than Rivals which has parrying replace shielding, no grabs, no grabbing ledges and…think that’s about it? Heck the poster child for Rivals is basically a discount Wolf

Really do not think targeting NASB’s menus is saying much when Brawlhalla and MVS follow similar conventions (or in MVS’ case just looks like every other free to play game)

NASB’s loss of playerbase is as simple as “experimental gameplay mechanics and roster selection + greatly overpriced and unpolished by launch standards = no casual playerbase sticks around”, the amount of attention NASB announcements get is proof people still care about the game, just not in its current state

 

[Guynamednelson]

the amount of attention NASB announcements get is proof people still care about the game, just not in its current state

Which makes it a shame Hugh never got a proper trailer when his announcement helped the Universe Pack trailer accumulate all the views it got. I just hope one for Rocko's in the works.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Which makes it a shame Hugh never got a proper trailer when his announcement helped the Universe Pack trailer accumulate all the views it got. I just hope one for Rocko's in the works.

Nah Jenny did that, Hugh of course drew eyes too but not like Jenny did

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

There's really no reason to ask why the game had a drop off - if you want players, gather up your friends or join a Discord; if you're worried about the game's future, look at how NKR1 was reviewed (or how "dead" both it and 2's online were at launch) and how it still got 2 sequels. Compared to the kart games, this game is hitting it really lucky so there's no reason not to believe a NASB 2 could happen, even if a DLC pass 2 is seeming more unlikely by the day.

 

[fogbadge]

I bet the makers of this would love to make a game about all the meme dads. Not even a platform fighter just something about them

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

I still don't know what you mean by that; you keep just saying it without explaining what it means. Is it because Nigel is maybe vaguely similar to Jigglypuff in terms of archetype (but not really)?

I'm just saying, you're very insistent on this whole "wavedashing bad" bent you seem to be on. I never got the impression that NASB was just trying to copy Smash, especially coming off of other platform fighters that also carve out a unique niche. People who call platform fighters "Smash clones" just haven't played them enough to appreciate the nuanced differences between them; these same people would probably call Mortal Kombat a Street Fighter clone.

It is literally true lol. I've spoken to plenty of people who relentlessly hate on NASB any time it's brought up, and of all the times I've heard them moan about it, "it's just trying to copy Smash" has never been one of their reasons. They hate it because they chose Hugh instead of Jimmy, or the animations are janky, or the music sucks, or certain characters having infinites at launch, etc. Nothing to do with the game not having a unique identity; you're literally the first person I've ever heard say that. Like, of course pro Melee players and Smash players are gonna say "I can just play Smash" because it's what they know and already like.

Yes, Brawlhalla's attempt at brand appeal is dumb, you don't have to convince me of that. But even if just as lame-ass skins, the game having those characters had a demonstrable effect on the game's popularity; I think there's a reason the game's playercount skyrocketed in the years after it started stapling a disjointed potpourri of random brands to itself. You can argue they had a solid base before that, but you can't just ignore it as a factor. (Also, Brawlhalla is "free" while NASB is 50 dollars. That's kind of important, especially since a lot of people still don't think that NASB earns that $50 pricetag.)

On PTM's character showcase, they specifically made him do all these fancy multigrains because they knew Hungrybox would like it. That was confirmed in one of their many Hbox interviews on stream.

If only NASB was to Smash like Mortal Kombat was to Street Fighter. NASB has so many cool ideas that get dragged down in a game formula that doesn't take full advantage of unique ideas. Strafe and wavedashing's stupidly niche in the meta because it's just tacked in. The complaints would probably lesson too if NASB was truly MK.

I found multiple people use Melee against NASB. And it's plain revisionist history to claim people don't like it because it's not Smash. Those flaws you mention are perfectly valid reasons to not like a game. You don't have to be Smash to succeed and MVS having people that like its gameplay and praise it for doing something different with the genre is proof.

It's only that, a factor. To use brand appeal as an excuse to downplay Brawlhalla and MVS' success is just dishonest. They are very different games from Smash so they have an easier time co-existing. Most plat fighters do not. Especially when the gameplay brings a very unique different kind of vibe. There's numerous brands and free to play games that failed.

Well to tell you the truth, I’ve kinda grown tired of what non players think of NASB because 9 times out of 10 they just get things blatantly wrong about the game or think it’s something different than it actually is.

Then many shouldn't feel the need to bring up what nonplayers think as I see so often here. I only started messaging in response to people complaining about NASB's backlash. When a lot of negative reception comes from an understandable place that's easy to accept and ignore.

When you put Rivals like that, no wonder it's niche lmao.

And they still won't play it if the gameplay is less similar to Melee.

No duh, I'm not saying it'd fix everything. The Melee thing was supposed to be an example.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I found multiple people use Melee against NASB. And it's plain revisionist history to claim people don't like it because it's not Smash. Those flaws you mention are perfectly valid reasons to not like a game. You don't have to be Smash to succeed and MVS having people that like its gameplay and praise it for doing something different with the genre is proof.

Did I say that? I don't think I said that. I just said that people don't hate this game for being too similar to Smash. Anyway yes, those flaws are valid reasons to not like the game (not to be obnoxious about it, mind), but for the most part, they aren't reasons to say the game's bad. Stuff like "Hugh shouldn't have been in before Jimmy," "the animations are janky," and "they should have just remixed the main themes of each show instead of making original compositions in the style of the show" isn't an objective criticism of the game, it's a matter of opinion. I, for one, like that this game has original stage themes and doesn't just ape songs from the show, which they probably couldn't do anyway. I also like Hugh even though I was pulling for Jimmy and don't mind a lot of the "janky" animations (for the most part; stuff like Danny's Light Dair and most of R&S's moves look just plain bad). My whole problem with NASB discourse is that people keep trying to pass off their subjective preferences as objective criticism - and that's if they don't just post the Steamcharts numbers and go "gimme updoots LOL". I won't argue that NASB is somehow worth 50 dollars (it's not, that's why I got it for 40 at launch ), but people should at least be able to say why without resorting to "**** game, it doesn't even have Jimmy ****ing Neutron".

 

[dlewis53]

Hey guys, how about we talk about something else that's more fun? Like, say, what you want to see in Rocko's moveset (since we haven't seen anything from it yet)? Or what you guys think his stage'll be?

Personally, I'd think it'd be funny for one of his attacks to be his brain popping out of his head like in the opening. And for the stage, all I can think of would be a general O-Town stage (sorry, I'm uncreative).

Also, one of his spoken quotes needs to be "SPUNKY!!!". Otherwise, what are we even doing?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I've always said that the brain pop should be a counter, just with a disjointed collision box that leaves him vulnerable up close.

I think a jackhammer should be there, but I have no clue how it'd work.

I hope his stage would be based on either Cruisin', the Heck episodes, or Rocko's Happy Sack. I absolutely do not want "Rocko's house" or "generic O-Town".

 

[Torgo the Bear]

I've always said that the brain pop should be a counter, just with a disjointed collision box that leaves him vulnerable up close.

I think a jackhammer should be there, but I have no clue how it'd work.

Without much context (yet) I feel like a Jackhammer could be a good down strong. Grounded or airborne.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I could kinda imagine the jackhammer being a non-offensive special that creates a trapping dent in the ground - I'm not really seeing the jackhammer as a regular attack because of how absurdly tall a disjoint it'd be - though they could just have it so Rocko is standing on it like a pogo stick or just using it like a regular tall person would, not lifted off the ground.

 

[Torgo the Bear]

Ah, so perhaps the first character to include something similar to the burying effect from Smash?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Did I say that? I don't think I said that. I just said that people don't hate this game for being too similar to Smash. Anyway yes, those flaws are valid reasons to not like the game (not to be obnoxious about it, mind), but for the most part, they aren't reasons to say the game's bad. Stuff like "Hugh shouldn't have been in before Jimmy," "the animations are janky," and "they should have just remixed the main themes of each show instead of making original compositions in the style of the show" isn't an objective criticism of the game, it's a matter of opinion. I, for one, like that this game has original stage themes and doesn't just ape songs from the show, which they probably couldn't do anyway. I also like Hugh even though I was pulling for Jimmy and don't mind a lot of the "janky" animations (for the most part; stuff like Danny's Light Dair and most of R&S's moves look just plain bad). My whole problem with NASB discourse is that people keep trying to pass off their subjective preferences as objective criticism - and that's if they don't just post the Steamcharts numbers and go "gimme updoots LOL". I won't argue that NASB is somehow worth 50 dollars (it's not, that's why I got it for 40 at launch ), but people should at least be able to say why without resorting to "**** game, it doesn't even have Jimmy ****ing Neutron".

You certainly implied it... You aren Wario aren't the high authority around here.


Anyway, been thinking about this all weekend, but we're due to see Rocko soon. Any big tournaments coming up or should we expect him this month?

 

[LimeTH]

can we go back to the rugrats debate or something please. even hugh discourse is better than this

uh

they added reptar because he's not a baby and no other reason

please do not look at the twitter hashtag #rugrats and the emoji placed next to it

I sure am disgruntled that the developers of Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl added Hugh Neutron from The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius into the roster instead of Jimmy Neutron from The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius.

the only reason you'd ever want to put a fire-breathing kaiju in a fighting game is so people don't accuse you of wanting to beat up babies, clearly

Something something separate Angry Beavers.

I hope his stage would be based on either Cruisin', the Heck episodes, or Rocko's Happy Sack. I absolutely do not want "Rocko's house" or "generic O-Town".

I thought about how they could do Rocko's house, the shape of which would make a decent enough plat fighter stage, in a unique enough way, and I figured it could be Rocko's house flying through space.

Albeit, I'd keep the garage to have that unique shape, accuracy be damned, then have the house periodically turn like Brinstar Depths.

That said, that's still not super interesting, so something more specific would definitely be preferred.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

I bet the makers of this would love to make a game about all the meme dads. Not even a platform fighter just something about them

New Nicktoons game, but instead of playing as SpongeBob, Jimmy, Timmy and Danny, you can play as Harold Squarepants, Hugh Neutron, Timmy's Dad, Jack Fenton and other Nicktoons dads/moms trying to save their families.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

New Nicktoons game, but instead of playing as SpongeBob, Jimmy, Timmy and Danny, you can play as Harold Squarepants, Hugh Neutron, Timmy's Dad, Jack Fenton and other Nicktoons dads/moms trying to save their families.

That would actually be COOL since it uses the dads for a premise unique to them rather than putting them in to be "unpredictable and not boring".

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I hope his stage would be based on either Cruisin', the Heck episodes, or Rocko's Happy Sack. I absolutely do not want "Rocko's house" or "generic O-Town".

We've been getting a lot of weird/fantastical stages, so something a little more grounded would be a nice change, especially since Rocko in general is supposed to be a wacky but down to earth show about living life. So something more mundane would actually fit Rocko (while a more fantastical stage would be a good fit for Heffer if we get him).