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Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

FazDude

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Now MV has absolutely nothing over NASB except maybe it being free and that HEAVILY depends on how the game will compensate for its initial cost of 0.
Well, to be completely fair to MV, it has a focus on team-based play, which I don't think has been done in the genre before. That'll be interesting.

(This is probably gonna be the last I say about MV since I don't wanna go offtopic lol)
 

Cutie Gwen

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I'm still bitter about people thinking MV is better solely because voices, when if you play NASB on PC like me all you need to do is mod them in. Bam. Now MV has absolutely nothing over NASB except maybe it being free and that HEAVILY depends on how the game will compensate for its initial cost of 0.
This really isn't a good argument when modding depends entirely on which version you bought and having the knowhow to do that yourself seperately from the game. I really don't get why people are so defensive about this point in particular getting crticized as it's the industry standard and Rep implied it's even being addressed as we speak meaning the people making the game feel it's a legitimate criticism to make. Besides, Multiversus is a good thing, nothing wrong with healthy competition that can make both games grow
 

Guynamednelson

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This really isn't a good argument when modding depends entirely on which version you bought and having the knowhow to do that yourself seperately from the game. I really don't get why people are so defensive about this point in particular getting crticized as it's the industry standard and Rep implied it's even being addressed as we speak meaning the people making the game feel it's a legitimate criticism to make. Besides, Multiversus is a good thing, nothing wrong with healthy competition that can make both games grow
Mostly I'm worried about people ignoring potentially scummy things about MV like it probably being P2W just because there's a game where Spongebob doesn't talk. F2P can be a blessing but also a curse.

Then again I could just be biased from first impressions, as Melee-inspired gameplay+Nicktoons would seem more interesting to me in the first place than 2v2-focused gameplay+Cartoon Network. I will totally let the two games live in harmony if all MV has for microtransactions is costumes and NASB officially adds voice acting.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Mostly I'm worried about people ignoring potentially scummy things about MV like it probably being P2W just because there's a game where Spongebob doesn't talk. F2P can be a blessing but also a curse.

Then again I could just be biased from first impressions, as Melee-inspired gameplay+Nicktoons would seem more interesting to me in the first place than 2v2-focused gameplay+Cartoon Network. I will totally let the two games live in harmony if all MV has for microtransactions is costumes and NASB officially adds voice acting.
I'd get that but it's not the same as getting upset at people for saying MV has better presentation, which like it or not, is a fact. I strongly dislike predatory practises like microtransactions for a chance to get a desirable costume as it targets people who have gambling addictions, especially when it's so easy to abuse digitally at the ease of your phone or console. That being said, I don't get upset because people have the audacity to like it over the game I prefer.

Again, judging by Rep's comments, VA work seems to be on the way, meaning that criticism in particular will no longer apply, giving you even less of a reason to be bitter or upset when you just need to wait a while
 

Guynamednelson

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MV devs have said there will be no pay to win things only thing will be cosmetics
Okay but still, most of the things MV has over NASB supposedly are planned for NASB updates, so there's not going to be any real reason to play MV unless you don't wanna pay $50 or prefer Batman anyway.
 

DeviousFish

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Okay but still, most of the things MV has over NASB supposedly are planned for NASB updates, so there's not going to be any real reason to play MV unless you don't wanna pay $50 or prefer Batman anyway.
but u do realize that mv is much different from any other platform fighter. And also why wouldn't someone want to play it? It's free, so if u don't like it, it's fine since you didn't pay anything
 

dlewis53

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Yeah. On one hand, I understand it - We just came off of Smash Ultimate, which is the biggest installment of the biggest platform fighting series. Of course people are gonna be thinking of that going into NASB. At the same time, though... It's fine. A bit overpriced? Yeah. Lacking some modes that would have improved the base package? You bet. However, NASB isn't the way it is because of the devs - Rather Nick and their wacky policies limiting what could be done with the game.

A while back, a friend of mine said something really important about NASB; It isn't Smash. Like, that's obvious and all, but it's really a mindset that I think needs to be embraced more. Yes, they are the same subgenre, but they have their own identies and goals which are overshadowed by the "poor man's Smash" mindset. Look at Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat - They're both fighting games, but they're both respected as seperate entities. That's the thing I want to happen with the platform fighter genre. It shouldn't be just "Smash" and "Smash clones". It should be Smash, then NASB, then Brawlhalla, then Multiversus, so on and so forth.

Sorry for the long-winded philosophical speech, but I really needed to get this off my chest.
applause

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head; NASB and MV should be allowed to exist alongside Smash as their own things instead of constantly being compared to the latter and people saying "Oh it isn't Smash; who cares?".

Not every platform-fighter needs to be Smash to be good; heck, All-Star Brawl has some mechanics that make it feel unique enough that playing it does feel different from Smash.

MV devs have said there will be no pay to win things only thing will be cosmetics
Do you have a source on that by chance?
 
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PK-remling Fire

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I think that All Star Brawl and Multiversus are definitely different enough that they can co-exist. Sadly for NASB, MV does seem to have a lot more polish to it out of the gate, with more features geared toward casual audiences + cosmetics and other flavor to make the game look more alive. However, both games seem to be fundamentally different, as NASB is leaning towards Melee/Slap City while from what I heard about MV it plays more like Brawlhalla. If MV's gameplay is solid and it doesn't have a P2W crazy monetization scheme, I'll probably end up playing both as they'll each have a different feel
 

DeviousFish

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applause

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head; NASB and MV should be allowed to exist alongside Smash as their own things instead of constantly being compared to the latter and people saying "Oh it isn't Smash; who cares?".

Not every platform-fighter needs to be Smash to be good; heck, All-Star Brawl has some mechanics that make it feel unique enough that playing it does feel different from Smash.



Do you have a source on that by chance?
on twitter they talked about perks and looking at currency it seems to only be used for battle passes atm
 

amageish

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A lot of people seem to be like that - recently Austin Eruption was just mean to it in a video he made and I had to comment on the video. The dude's normally fair and fun but not this time. It's frustrating when you can see the devs trying their best.
To be honest, I've just... stopped watching all "WORST GAMES OF [year]" content, regardless of if I like the creators who make them. Games are really hard to make good, especially with corporations often burderning developers with timeline requirements or adding in monetization methods the developers don't actually want to include. The "worst games" of a given year tend to be ones with sad development stories, not funny haha "Wow, karma bit you on the ass" ones, so over-the-top preformative anger for a camera just... doesn't do it for me anymore.
 

Baysha

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To be honest, I've just... stopped watching all "WORST GAMES OF [year]" content, regardless of if I like the creators who make them. Games are really hard to make good, especially with corporations often burderning developers with timeline requirements or adding in monetization methods the developers don't actually want to include. The "worst games" of a given year tend to be ones with sad development stories, not funny haha "Wow, karma bit you on the ass" ones, so over-the-top preformative anger for a camera just... doesn't do it for me anymore.
This is why I generally prefer people who review "interesting" games over only "bad" games. Even if it didn't come out quite right, there can still be good ideas in it.
 
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Guynamednelson

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This is why I generally prefer people who review "interesting" games over only "bad" games. Even if it didn't come out quite right, there can still be good ideas in it.
AVGN's the only one who could do it right. COULD, as this year's AVGN episodes were mostly godawful.
 

CapitaineCrash

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To be honest, I've just... stopped watching all "WORST GAMES OF [year]" content, regardless of if I like the creators who make them. Games are really hard to make good, especially with corporations often burderning developers with timeline requirements or adding in monetization methods the developers don't actually want to include. The "worst games" of a given year tend to be ones with sad development stories, not funny haha "Wow, karma bit you on the ass" ones, so over-the-top preformative anger for a camera just... doesn't do it for me anymore.
People tend to confuse "worst game of the year" with "most disappointing". Recently, I saw a lot of people calling Balan wonderworld and Battlefield 2042 "the worst game of the year". While those games are not amazing, they're clearly not the worst. Just look on the eshop or Steam and you'll see a bunch of games released this year that are far worse than those. But people are so focused on Balan and Battlefield because they came from big developpers and there was some hype around them.

This is the same thing with Nick all stars. Could the game have been better? Yeah sure. Is it the worst fighting game of 2021? No. There probably are some random steam fighting games that are sold 3$ and sold 5 copies and are way worse than NASB.
 
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Guynamednelson

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People tend to confuse "worst game of the year" with "most disappointing". Recently, I saw a lot of people calling Balan wonderworld and Battlefield 2042 "the worst game of the year". While those games are not amazing, they're clearly not the worst. Just look on the eshop or Steam and you'll see a bunch of games released this year that are far worse than those. But people are so focused on Balan and Battlefield because they came from big developpers and there was some hype around them.
Personally I think there's a HUGE difference between Balan/BF2042 and NASB. It should be obvious: Nick just needed more time in the oven, while Balan/BF2042 HAD plenty of time in it.
 

FazDude

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If I thought calling NASB bad was a bit of a stretch, I can confidently say that NASB being one of the worst games of 2021 is a HUGE stretch. Heck, I don't even think Balan's deserving of that title either.

Overall, I think the term "THE WORST GAME OF [year]" has pretty much lost all value. Like Captaine said, the term "most disappointing" game is much more fitting, and I don't think NASB is that for me, honestly. My thoughts on the whole thing are pretty much "hype responsibly"; I went into NASB expecting something fun with its own identity, but not as big and grandiose as Smash. I got exactly what I asked for, so I'm happy.
 

amageish

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This is why I generally prefer people who review "interesting" games over only "bad" games. Even if it didn't come out quite right, there can still be good ideas in it.
Agreed. I'd much rather someone doing an analysis of the interesting parts of game then someone screaming about how the hard-working typically-overworked-and-underpaid developers didn't make the stage backgrounds pretty enough or what-have-you.

People tend to confuse "worst game of the year" with "most disappointing". Recently, I saw a lot of people calling Balan wonderworld and Battlefield 2042 "the worst game of the year". While those games are not amazing, they're clearly not the worst. Just look on the eshop or Steam and you'll see a bunch of games released this year that are far worse than those. But people are so focused on Balan and Battlefield because they came from big developpers and there was some hype around them.

This is the same thing with Nick all stars. Could the game have been better? Yeah sure. Is it the worst fighting game of 2021? No. There probably are some random steam fighting games that are sold 3$ and sold 5 copies and are way worse than NASB.
That's definitely a factor, yeah. The actual objective "Worst Games of 2021" are probably all barely-functional games put up by amateur developers on itchio, but people (correctly IMHO) recognize that making a video full of dunking on people who are trying to get into game development for not making a fully-functional masterpiece on their first try would be very cruel and basically just bullying. So instead you have to overreact to games that are generally fine, but not amazing and maybe not always worth their asking prices.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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NASB was probably my best purchase of the year, though that's mostly because I don't really play games for the bonus content - I love a good minigame mode or event match, but I find story modes in multiplayer games to be wastes of dev time - especially if they have unique levels/bosses. I paid for a game that feels good to play with a mix of iconic and obscure cartoons, that's what I got. 22 characters with paid DLC at £40? I can live with that so long as it's fun.
 
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dlewis53

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Yeah, while there are definitely some gameplay aspects I'm not particularly fond of/weren't executed that great, overall All-Star Brawl has been a very solid fun experience, so I can easily say that it's nowhere near being straight-up bad.

On that note, I feel like the whole disappointment thing goes back to the people overhyping the game as a "Smash Killer".
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Yeah, while there are definitely some gameplay aspects I'm not particularly fond of/weren't executed that great, overall All-Star Brawl has been a very solid fun experience, so I can easily say that it's nowhere near being straight-up bad.

On that note, I feel like the whole disappointment thing goes back to the people overhyping the game as a "Smash Killer".
I made a status a while back on why I think people disliked NASB, I'll just copy paste it here.
I think part of NASB's problem was that it was the first fully crossover platform fighter to be designed with fans of the overall platform fighter genre in mind and not just the latest Smash. People who wouldn't play Slap or vanilla Rivals because of unfamiliarity with the fighters went in expecting Namco-era Smash content; mechanics; and moveset design, but got something very different. Same will happen to Multiversus, same will happen if Fraymakers adds Sans/Shantae/Freddy/Boyfriend/e.t.c., and same will likely happen to the mystery platform fighters too.
 

Guynamednelson

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I made a status a while back on why I think people disliked NASB, I'll just copy paste it here.
Honestly Multiversus might be hit even harder with a lack of interest after it comes out. It wants to be more appealing to casuals with its slower, team-based gameplay, safer roster, and the fact that they made sure it had voices from the start, but still has most of the same budget issues that drove casuals away from NASB if the roster's smaller and the graphics are just as cheap-looking. So casuals will just see yet another cheap Smash wannabe and hardcore players won't get fast, deep gameplay.

You can say "yeah, but some people will play it because it's free", but the thing about that is that there's plenty of F2P games that aren't dominating the world of gaming anyway. Look at Quake Champions for a good example.
 

Baysha

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I made a status a while back on why I think people disliked NASB, I'll just copy paste it here.
This. The Smash Bros. fanbase and Platform Fighter fanbase are very different beasts. The genre will never grow as long as people keep labeling everything as a "Smash Killer". Also, what are these "mystery platform fighters" you speak of?
 

Wario Wario Wario

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This. The Smash Bros. fanbase and Platform Fighter fanbase are very different beasts. The genre will never grow as long as people keep labeling everything as a "Smash Killer". Also, what are these "mystery platform fighters" you speak of?
One of the initial Multiversus leaks said two other major companies are making platform fighters of their own.
 

UserKev

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I think a lot of people get "good game" confused for "game with a lot of stuff in it", that's why NASB was doomed to unrightfully become a laughing stock.
NASB will never be a laughing stock since it carries the Avatar market, a universally appealing IP. It will be played like Melee for years to come. Only thing I can't bare thru about the roster is Ren And Stimpy.
Good thing that Multiversus won't be laughing stock.
Because Multiversus has a lot of potential to be good like Ultimate.
It has better mechanics than NASB.
Sign Must really want to trigger Nelsonguy, hah dude? This post is a bit rude.
Honestly Multiversus might be hit even harder with a lack of interest after it comes out. It wants to be more appealing to casuals with its slower, team-based gameplay, safer roster, and the fact that they made sure it had voices from the start, but still has most of the same budget issues that drove casuals away from NASB if the roster's smaller and the graphics are just as cheap-looking. So casuals will just see yet another cheap Smash wannabe and hardcore players won't get fast, deep gameplay.

You can say "yeah, but some people will play it because it's free", but the thing about that is that there's plenty of F2P games that aren't dominating the world of gaming anyway. Look at Quake Champions for a good example.
Yup. Sign I'm sorry another poster mentioned Multiversus in the Nick thread. You seem to want to see MV's downfall than anything. And you might get your wish.
 

Guynamednelson

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Sign Must really want to trigger Nelsonguy, hah dude? This post is a bit rude.


Yup. Sign I'm sorry another poster mentioned Multiversus in the Nick thread. You seem to want to see MV's downfall than anything. And you might get your wish.
I wasn't even triggered by his post, I was just carrying on with the discussion. Which was about whether or not the lack of money invested into it means NASB is a bad game, and I simply believe MV's budget isn't much higher.
 
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ivanlerma

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People tend to confuse "worst game of the year" with "most disappointing". Recently, I saw a lot of people calling Balan wonderworld and Battlefield 2042 "the worst game of the year". While those games are not amazing, they're clearly not the worst. Just look on the eshop or Steam and you'll see a bunch of games released this year that are far worse than those. But people are so focused on Balan and Battlefield because they came from big developpers and there was some hype around them.

This is the same thing with Nick all stars. Could the game have been better? Yeah sure. Is it the worst fighting game of 2021? No. There probably are some random steam fighting games that are sold 3$ and sold 5 copies and are way worse than NASB.
Well, I'm at least glad NASB didn't end up on Rabbidluigi's Worst Games of the Year List.
 
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Good thing that Multiversus won't be laughing stock.
Because Multiversus has a lot of potential to be good like Ultimate.
It has better mechanics than NASB.
Better mechanics? How? MVS' devs have shown little to none about the game much less any deep dive into the mechanics. Unless you consider the grindy F2P based perk system a gameplay mechanic.
 
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NASB will never be a laughing stock since it carries the Avatar market, a universally appealing IP. It will be played like Melee for years to come. Only thing I can't bare thru about the roster is Ren And Stimpy.


Sign Must really want to trigger Nelsonguy, hah dude? This post is a bit rude.


Yup. Sign I'm sorry another poster mentioned Multiversus in the Nick thread. You seem to want to see MV's downfall than anything. And you might get your wish.
Yes, it was little bit rude.

Better mechanics? How? MVS' devs have shown little to none about the game much less any deep dive into the mechanics. Unless you consider the grindy F2P based perk system a gameplay mechanic.
Yeah, but I talk about gameplay here.
I know it had limited Attacks, but it's More likely that Smash.
 

DeviousFish

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whenever i always see mv and nasb in the same discussion it kinda makes me laugh. I really don't know why we need to mention the other since both are completely different. Both have already shown how unique they are yes. Yes, while mv may have the better presentation, its all about the feel the game has. Also MV, while it may be free to play doesn't seem like it will affect the overall game since most of the stuff you can get normally. And while this statement may be controversial, i actually think that MV will do much better than Nasb and actually grow more in popularity due the fact that its free to play and ( i think the roster is much more recognizable). I also do think Nasb will make a comback, due to many dlc and features that were asked happening, its safe to say that Nasb will make a increase(maybe not a big one), but an increase none the less. I think its more fair to judge MV based on how it feels since i think if i fighting games feels clunky and bad, then i don't think its that good. I personally think Nasb is still really good and i'm hoping to see the same in MV. I'm not trying to push down any of the two. But i don't think its fair to compare them since they are different in general.
 

Guynamednelson

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Yes, while mv may have the better presentation
Barely. It's just voice acting and...nothing else.
And while this statement may be controversial, i actually think that MV will do much better than Nasb and actually grow more in popularity due the fact that its free to play
Again, F2P isn't always a get-out-of-unpopularity-free card.
I think its more fair to judge MV based on how it feels since i think if i fighting games feels clunky and bad, then i don't think its that good.
And that will indeed be what ensures F2P isn't going to mean it'll dominate the world of platform fighters.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Yep. Considering the devs still haven't really explained how exactly the Free-to-Play model's gonna work, it's still very much possible for this to sink the ship.
Hell, F2P isn't solely why Fortnite and LoL are super-huge. It's because there's clearly been a lot of money invested into them, from crossover deals to TV series to esports leagues from both. Furthermore, there's been plenty of cases where multiplayer games go F2P as a last-ditch effort, and it only barely helps their popularity if at all.
 

DrifloonEmpire

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Gonna make a small break in my retirement from Smashboards to share some thoughts I had.

Firstly, while I heavily prefer All Star Brawl, I do recognize that Multiversus has the better initial presentation. But throughout 2022 that gap is due to close. Furthermore, I'm overall more forgiving of NASB because of the amount of passion that went into it, especially on the shoestring budget, so less bonus content is more understandable, especially given that Ludosity gets to keep working on the game and adding new content/polishing it. And finally, NASB is still fundamentally a very good game! It simply needs more content and some extra polish (and this is coming fron someone who despises the elitism that came from Melee's happy accidents). And more of a personal thing, but Nickelodeon was my childhood while I have little to no connection to characters like Steven, Finn, Ruby Rose, Rick and Morty, Batman, etc.

A lot of the "anti-Multiversus" complaints come from people who are sick of it being called the "NASB Killer" and the obnoxious attitude that came with it.

Going back to NASB.
So, I've been revisiting the game's Loud House content after getting to know more of the show, and aside from the general apathy towards the show from the fans, the content in-game is generally a rollercoaster in terms of both passion and basis on the show.

First, the good! Lucy Loud (who they apparently had to fight for? Who would've gotten in instead?) has a very inspired moveset with a clear direction. There's a lot of references to things she does on the show, and while the coffin antics are a bit much it's willing suspension of disbelief for a fighting game, and isn't at all out of character. And while fighting her is a ****ing nightmare, you can see all of the heart that went into her moveset.

Alongside this, there's the stage of the titular house. Even before I started to like the show, I have to say I LOVE this stage. The show's art style transitioning to 3D looks fantastic, the character cameos are great, the stage looks super detailed, and it's very fun to fight on. Feels like you're actually there! I know a lot of people hate walk-off stages but this stage is an absolute blast (and it feels a lot nicer than the typical themed platform a lot of more "typical" stages are. Irken Armada's a particularly egregious example, especially since Lylat Cruise showed us how to make a space fleet stage more interesting with a consistent platform). Only issues are a couple of minor inaccuracies regarding room placement and the type of fence at the yard's edge, but aside from that no complaints here!

Now we basically have the inverse, starting with Lincoln. Most characters have movesets heavily inspired by or based on canonical material. Lincoln....doesn't really have much of that. Based on what I've watched, only two moves seem to have been pulled directly from the source material (his Up Special (Ace Savvy) and Down Strong (VR Slash)). I can see him using a squirt gun, but I've seen people comment (fans of the show, in fact) that they have no idea where the Spinning Top move came from. Furthermore, no idea why Lincoln has a baseball bat since he tends to avoid sports (sans occasional games with Lynn Jr.). And I don't think he's associated with yoyos at all either. Based on his stage type, those last couple of moves, and being a small kid with a big head, among other properties, it feels more like they were trying to make a sort of Ness analogue rather than an inspired Lincoln fighter. I get that they probably had no choice in whether or not to include him, but it's a shame he didn't get nearly the same level of inspiration other fighters got, which are packed with canonical moves and references. (though I will say, his victory animation is SPOT ON)

Now, we have Lucy's stage, Royal Woods Cemetery. A big issue with this stage is that it doesn't do much to make itself stand out. If it weren't for Fangs' cameo on one of the dead trees it wouldn't even be particularly recognizable as a Loud House stage. It didn't go for the same "comic to 3D" art style that the House stage did, and is very light on the character cameos, too. If they had thrown in another character like, say, Haiku (Lucy's best friend) or maybe put an ARGGH! van at the mansion in the background, then that plus carrying over the Comic to 3D art style of the House's stage would've gone a long way! Standing out is important, especially that this game has an unusually high amount of spooky-themed stages (4 in a game with 21 stages).

You can tell that while there was loads of passion put into everything, some stages and characters got kinda shafted.
 
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