Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[RileyXY1]

I get 50 fighters is a tight squeeze, but I feel like we're gonna have to agree to disagree here because I've got a lot of gripes with this roster

1. Even considering Funky Kong is an Echo and not a full fighter, Diddy's been a mainstay for a while and K. Rool got in through sheer ballot power. Losing them both is kinda rough
2. Meta Knight is a baffling omission; Kirby's been a consistent release and Meta's been a series staple of both Kirby and Smash for decades. I could get not having enough room for a newcomer, but I really don't see Kirby losing any veterans
3. I get that Ridley's presumably dead and gone for good, but so is Dark Samus. It feels weird to prioritize an MP4 rep over either of them
4. Pokemon's representation seems extremely limited for the single biggest franchise in the world. I dunno, it feels likethere would be at least one more veteran preserved
5. The Pikmin 4 Explorer as an Echo isn't impossible, but it feels weird given that Oatchi was a big focus
6. Given that we have placeholders for future Pokemon and Metroid reps, it feels weird to not save a slot for Fire Emblem, seeing as Corrin and Byleth have both had slots chosen in advance
7. I highly doubt we'd drop Pyra and Mythra. I'll let Nia slide though, since she's an Echo
8. Rathalos specifically as the Monster Hunter rep over, y'know, the Hunters is really, really weird. I get that Rathalos shows up the most because it's just easier to drop a dragon boss into games, but Smash almost always favors the player character. And while there have been dev statements on preferring the monsters as the series' main representatives, that was before Marvel vs Capcom Infinite - And that game's like 7 years old - And also before Monster Hunter became a worldwide thing with World. And either way, we've had Smash break past precedents before with Hero over Slime, seeing as Squeenix has been very hesitant to put any DQ Hero in spinoffs.
9. I'll let you have Chell. I'd argue she feels more like a DLC character, since Portal is a beloved series but only has two games and isn't strongly associated with Nintendo, but y'know what? She'd be cool, so I'll let it slide

We also don't even know if Prime 4 will ever even come out. The game's currently vaporware so who knows if it will ever actually see a release.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I've decided to try my hand at a roster mockup. The amount of slots was at 50, but Echo Fighters don't count toward that total. Pretend the second to last row is centered. Newcomers are in bold, Echo Fighters are italicized.

Spoiler

1. Six Capcom characters is a bit much, right?
2. 14 third party fighters out of 50 is too many.
3. A lot of the cuts here sting. Byleth, Pyra & Mythra, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, and Ridley especially.
4. It’s a nice attempt, but some refining could make it a bit better.

 

[JOJONumber691]

What would you say are the 7 most likely 1stparties and 7 most likely 3rd parties to get in?

First Parties:

1. Noah or Mio
2. Bandanna Dre
3. Alear
4. Ring Fit Trainee
5. Octoling
6. Tom Nook
7. Meowscarda
8. Geno
9. Dante
10. Rayman
11. Doomguy
12. Undyne
13. Monster Hunter
14. Ryu Hayabusa

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Smash 4's approach to roster organization + adopting Smash Ultimate's treatment of echo fighters would be ideal. To me, at least.

Only thing I'd add is making all DLC newcomers/veterans from pre-existing series join the others from their series instead of just dumping them at the end of the CSS. I know it was done to identify them as DLC but I don't care, just put Roy next to Marth and friends so I can pick him faster lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I've got a few other qualms with this, but a (presumably) decloned Dark Samus AND a Metroid newcomer over Ridley returning? Why??

Even then, Ridley would probably be in Prime 4 because the Prime series is set when he's undoubtedly alive.

 

[fogbadge]

First Parties:

1. Noah or Mio
2. Bandanna Dre
3. Alear
4. Ring Fit Trainee
5. Octoling
6. Tom Nook
7. Meowscarda
8. Geno
9. Dante
10. Rayman
11. Doomguy
12. Undyne
13. Monster Hunter
14. Ryu Hayabusa

you forgot to separate the 3rd parties

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I've got a few other qualms with this, but a (presumably) decloned Dark Samus AND a Metroid newcomer over Ridley returning? Why??

I get that Ridley's presumably dead and gone for good, but so is Dark Samus. It feels weird to prioritize an MP4 rep over either of them

Yeah that's a mistake. When porting the table over the bold and italics went away and I missed that one. Dark Samus is still supposed to be an Echo Fighter. I'll go ahead and fix that.

Pokemon's representation seems extremely limited for the single biggest franchise in the world. I dunno, it feels likethere would be at least one more veteran preserved

Funny enough, I thought I was going to be readding Lucario (and Diddy Kong) once I was finished shifting the initial chosen veterans around, but I didn't have any room even after downsizing to get enough newcomers.

The Pikmin 4 Explorer as an Echo isn't impossible, but it feels weird given that Oatchi was a big focus

After finding out that Oatchi is a captain I agree, but he would have to be a full character which meant a cut somewhere (veteran or otherwise) and it was 1:40 in the morning so I had to quit and go to bed.

Six Capcom characters is a bit much, right?

I didn't initially have Proto Man, but he was added after I realized Ultimate had 7 Echo Fighters, so 8 wasn't that weird, and 5 would have been slightly disappointing. Even so...yeah the one company essentially having a row to itself is a bit weird. Biases definitely showing with that.

14 third party fighters out of 50 is too many.

This is the first attempt that didn't just cut all of the 3rd parties except for Mega Man, Pac-Man, Sonic, and Snake...Still didn't really know how to handle them, but I kinda agree that the approach of keeping as many of the 3rd party series as possible kinda causes them to take over the roster with that few veterans.

I think what I'll do is just say that since they're all important, but can't all come back, we'll just select the mainstays, a few others, and rotate out the rest for DLC or the next game entirely.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

How would you all feel if Psaro Banesword got into Smash (Villain of DQ4 also Protagonist of DQ Monster The Dark Prince.)
He's probably my most wanted 3rd Part Villain nowadays, Cause I feel like he could have an extremely varied moveset.
Dragon Quest is in my opinion one of the most deserving 3rd Party series to be in Smash considering its massive amount of popular especially in Japan + How hugely influential it is on the RPG genre.
Personally I wouldn't find a second DQ character to be too many.
View attachment 390094

Psaro would be awesome, I think he'd be a great pick. He's a very popular and important character to Dragon Quest who's consistently featured in marketing, and there's a ton of material for a moveset to build on.

Now, granted, Psaro is older than Sephiroth. But he didn't get a real character design until after the PS1 remake, 5 years after FF7. He originally just looked like this:
View attachment 390109

From what I recall, Psaro's design actually comes from the novelisation of DQ4 published in 1991, where he looks pretty similar to how he looks now, so it's not entirely a later invention.

This itself was based on his design from Dragon Quest IV: Legend in the Dark.

Though he definitely got more Sephiroth-esque as time passed on. Here he's pretty much just Dark Schneider.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

I don't know if this is practical, but I honestly think a Pokémon specific ballot for Smash would be an interesting idea to gauge the broader interest for selections. Yeah, you'd have trolls voting for MissingNo and/or old schoolers rallying to get someone from Gen 1 or 2. However, even with that, seeing what Nintendo/Sakurai could practically do with what the fans went with would be fascinating.

Me leading the Furret nation.

It's a shame TPC won't have the Pokéballs to agree to something like this

 

[Gengar84]

How would you all feel if Psaro Banesword got into Smash (Villain of DQ4 also Protagonist of DQ Monster The Dark Prince.)
He's probably my most wanted 3rd Part Villain nowadays, Cause I feel like he could have an extremely varied moveset.
Dragon Quest is in my opinion one of the most deserving 3rd Party series to be in Smash considering its massive amount of popular especially in Japan + How hugely influential it is on the RPG genre.
Personally I wouldn't find a second DQ character to be too many.
View attachment 390094

The only game I’ve played that Psaro was in is the Dragon Quest Monsters demo but I love his character design. Thats probably obvious since Sephiroth is my favorite character in Smash. Even though Psaro wasn’t in them, I still really enjoyed Dragon Quest VIII and XI. He’s not quite in my top most wanted list because I’m not overly familiar with him as a character but I’d still be pretty hyped for his inclusion. More villains is always a plus in my book too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Though he definitely got more Sephiroth-esque as time passed on. Here he's pretty much just Dark Schneider.

In that first image, he's just straight up David Bowie from Labyrinth.

Either way, he never had a consistent design until the PS1 remake.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

In that first image, he's just straight up David Bowie from Labyrinth.

lol you should see some of the other pieces of art

The movie was a hit in Japan, so no wonder.

 

[Gengar84]

Me leading the Furret nation.

It's a shame TPC won't have the Pokéballs to agree to something like this

Furrett’s my favorite early game rodent so I’d be pretty happy.

Narrowing my list down to just my top five overall favorites, I’d go with:

Gengar
Cofagrigus
Golisopod
Orbeetle
Hisuian Zoroark
Sneasler

I think Gengar and Zoroark have at least some chance to make it in but the others are long shots at best, unfortunately.

 

[Master_Scorpion]

What would you say are the 7 most likely 1stparties and 7 most likely 3rd parties to get in?

1st Party: Octoling, New Pokemon, Waluigi, Tom Nook, Bandana Dee, Oatchi, & Noah
3rd Party: Monster Hunter, Eggman, Bomberman, Chun Li, Crash, Ryu Hayabusa, & 2B

 

[Gengar84]

What would you say are the 7 most likely 1stparties and 7 most likely 3rd parties to get in?

It’s hard to say because Smash can be so unpredictable and things change so much over time but here’s my current guess:

First Party:

Octoling
Waluigi
Ring Fit Trainee
Noah
Lynn
Meowscarada
Officer Howard

Third Party:

Zero
Monster Hunter
Crash Bandicoot
Doom Slayer
Ryu Hyabusa
Geno
Knuckles

I could be way off but that’s what I’m currently leaning towards right now.

 

[dezeray112]

What would you say are the 7 most likely 1stparties and 7 most likely 3rd parties to get in?

Whilst I haven't got my sevens for first party picks, these are the ones that I would predict to be likely.

First Parties:

1. A new Pokemon rep
2. A new Fire Emblem rep (probably Alear.)
3. Noah & Mio (Xenoblade 3)
4. Waluigi
5. Maybe another character from a classic Nintendo game?

Third Parties:

1. Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
2. Geno (Super Mario RPG)
3. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
4. A Guilty Gear rep
5. Rock Howard (Garou: Mark of the Wolves & Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves)
6. Maybe a new Tekken rep or someone from the Tales of franchise?
7. Maybe Dr. Eggman.

 

[Perkilator]

Decided to take my latest hand at a 70-man roster (with Echoes thrown in for good measure). And trust me, there are plenty of cuts that I'm not proud of.

Italics bold denotes unlockable characters.

Spoiler

 

[chinkuru]

First Parties: (Without a Pokemon from the next gen and the protagonist from the next Fire Emblem)

1. Ring Fit Trainee
2. Octoling
3. Tom Nook
4. Noah & Mio (Xenoblade 3)
5. Toad
6. Dixie Kong
7. Isaac


Third Parties:

1. Ryu Hayabusa
2. Bomberman
3. Professor Layton
4. Phoenix Wright
5. Dante
6. Agumon
7. Crash

 

[fogbadge]

Sooooo Lego Link for smash?

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's a shame TPC won't have the Pokéballs to agree to something like this

Only recently have they actually acknowledged Furret has a fanbase anyway. Hell with that plus how weak it is and how it's barely appeared in the anime, you'd think it has a lot less fans than it actually does.

And yet it somehow managed to walcc into millions of hearts anyway.

 

[Gengar84]

Only recently have they actually acknowledged Furret has a fanbase anyway. Hell with that plus how weak it is and how it's barely appeared in the anime, you'd think it has a lot less fans than it actually does.

And yet it somehow managed to walcc into millions of hearts anyway.

I actually recently raised a Furret in Scarlet and Violet. I feel like it actually has some decent potential as a Baton Pass user for casual games despite its low stats. It has some pretty great set up moves.

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah that's a mistake. When porting the table over the bold and italics went away and I missed that one. Dark Samus is still supposed to be an Echo Fighter. I'll go ahead and fix that.

Sure, but replacing Ridley with unnamed Metroid Prime 4 character, or even if it's Sylux, is not an even trade. Ridley is Samus' greatest rival, he is the most recurring antagonist in the series and he is sure to have a presence in that game anyway. He was also one of the most requested characters ever - if we're losing THIS many characters then it's going to be important to at least maintain some of the biggest fan favorites from last game.

There's no world where a relative (and at this point in time, literal) no-name from a game that doesn't exist yet takes precedent over all of that. I get that there's some sentiment of "out with the old in with the new" here but it has to be within reason, I think. There's a difference between cutting a few Pokemon or cutting the most important secondary representative in a mainstay series. That extends to Diddy Kong too, but I just talked about that the other day.

 

[JOJONumber691]

you forgot to separate the 3rd parties

I typed this on mobile.

 

[fogbadge]

I typed this on mobile.

And I typed this on mobile. What’s your point?

 

[Gengar84]

And I typed this on mobile. What’s your point?

Why do you feel the need to antagonize people for a simple little error like that that doesn’t really matter?

 

[fogbadge]

Why do you feel the need to antagonize people for a simple little error like that that doesn’t really matter?

I wasn’t trying to antagonise I was trying to point out a genuine mistake. you know being helpful

 

[Gengar84]

I wasn’t trying to antagonise I was trying to point out a genuine mistake. you know being helpful

It was mostly your reply to JOJO’s answer that was antagonistic. Saying something like “what’s your point?” isn’t really being helpful.

 

[fogbadge]

It was mostly your reply to JOJO’s answer that was antagonistic. Saying something like “what’s your point?” isn’t really being helpful.

cause I don’t see what replying on mobile had to do with it

 

[Sucumbio]

What would you say are the 7 most likely 1stparties and 7 most likely 3rd parties to get in?

1st party:

Gen 10 Pokemon
BWD
Noah/Mio
Octoling
Toad
Alear or next FE protag
Issac

3rd party:

Geno
Master Chief
2b
Alucard
Chun-Li
Ryu Hayabusa
Monster Hunter

 

[Arcanir]

*To be clear, this is not Ravenbeak. It's a character from Metroid Prime 4.

I doubt we're getting a MP4 character. They likely already pegged the roster by this point and the game still hasn't come out yet. At best it'll be at the end of this year, but in that case that would mean it'd be in a more similar position to ARMs or XC2 were for Ultimate over something like Awakening with Smash 4. I could see DLC for it, but base is probably out of reach.

 

[fogbadge]

1st party:

Gen 10 Pokemon
BWD
Noah/Mio
Octoling
Toad
Alear or next FE protag
Issac

3rd party:

Geno
Master Chief
2b
Alucard
Chun-Li
Ryu Hayabusa
Monster Hunter

nice to see someone optimistic about toad

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Alright, here's my second pass at the roster. The actual character select screen would need to be organized differently to fit the Random button (and for a few other reasons), but I don't feel like doing that right now. Like before, bold is newcomer, italics is Echo Fighter.

Spoiler

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've decided to try my hand at a roster mockup. The amount of slots was at 50, but Echo Fighters don't count toward that total. Pretend the second to last row is centered. Newcomers are in bold, Echo Fighters are italicized.

Decided to take my latest hand at a 70-man roster (with Echoes thrown in for good measure).

Okay, I gotta say something.

If you aren't going to do the pictures(and it's fine if you don't. I understand, it's a lot of extra work), why bother with doing the grid at all? It's not really adding anything at that point.

Why not just...list the characters in your roster?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay, I gotta say something.

If you aren't going to do the pictures(and it's fine if you don't. I understand, it's a lot of extra work), why bother with doing the grid at all? It's not really adding anything at that point.

Why not just...list the characters in your roster?

Literally just for my brain. The ability to swap around characters on an Excel sheet helps the organization work, and then I'm lazy and just copy/paste the table.

Sorry if that makes it more difficult for everyone else to read.

 

[JOJONumber691]

And I typed this on mobile. What’s your point?

When you do a list on Smashboards mobile, you are unable to undo the list even when you
Need a page break. It has to be done in advance.

 

[Garteam]

What would you say are the 7 most likely 1stparties and 7 most likely 3rd parties to get in?

These results are in no particular order:
1. Waluigi
2. Octoling
3. Bandana Waddle Dee
4. Meowscarda
5. Tom Nook
6. Ring Fit Adventurer
7. Issac

1. Bomberman
2. Leon/Jill/Chris
3. Shadow/Tails/Knuckles
4. X and/or Zero
5. Chun-Li
6. Alucard
7. Geno

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, here's my second pass at the roster. The actual character select screen would need to be organized differently to fit the Random button (and for a few other reasons), but I don't feel like doing that right now. Like before, bold is newcomer, italics is Echo Fighter.

Spoiler

Yeah, this looks a lot smoother. The one nitpick I have is that there aren't that many newcomers, but this is like, Smash 4 sized, so I won't give you crap for that. There's really only so many spaces to go around.

Logically I don't think Smash 6 will go back to 50 characters unless it's a complete gameplay overhaul that requires extra work even for the veterans. Perhaps it's just wishful optimism, but I think about 60 fighters is a safer bet - Not quite Ultimate base level, but at least close.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly if the rumors of backwards compatible upgrades on Switch 2 are true, I feel like just upgrading Ultimate, adding Adventure Mode levels to World of Light, hopefully bringing back Smash Run, and then FP3 would be more than enough.

 

[Deleted member]

Astral Chain is something I never cared for but it does tick all the boxes for a new post-ultimate's-release character in that incredibly crucial "will core gamers care about this slot". It's pretty much just them and Ring Fit at this point for new franchises that have any sort of notoriety- you can argue it's a very distant 2nd place, but Nintendo really didn't make new franchises in the last 5 years (or at least ones that we can argue for smash), a trend that's probably going to continue if the hardware jump hits their efficancy as hard as it did for xbox and sony when they transitioned to that level of power a gen ago.

I feel like there wouldn't be nearly as much doubt to AC's smash potential if Platinum's future as a whole didn't look as shaky as it did. Granted, even if the worst-case scenario happens to Platinum... I don't think it would factor that heavily into the chance's of getting a character from it? Gut feeling, but again it's a new IP that sold about as well as it realistically could have.

I think we'll get both Astral Chain and Ring Fit next game, i don think the franchise future begin shaky is a dead sentence as we got an ARMS rep, a franchise that had a shaky future even in 2020.
Astral Chain has a cult following and sold decently well, that alone might give it a shot.

 

[Guynamednelson]

rumors

I don't think it's a rumor anymore when TTYD legitimately has support for rendering in 4K, which is impossible on the current Switch.

That said, IF SSBU receives further updates to make use of Switch 2's hardware, I hope they target 120 FPS rather than 4K resolution. Higher framerates would greatly improve the game's input lag, to the point where even if SSBU still has 6 frames of input lag even when rendering in 120 FPS, at least it's 1/20th of a second rather than 1/10th.