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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

TheQuester

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2023
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469
Yeah, this looks a lot smoother. The one nitpick I have is that there aren't that many newcomers, but this is like, Smash 4 sized, so I won't give you crap for that. There's really only so many spaces to go around.

Logically I don't think Smash 6 will go back to 50 characters unless it's a complete gameplay overhaul that requires extra work even for the veterans. Perhaps it's just wishful optimism, but I think about 60 fighters is a safer bet - Not quite Ultimate base level, but at least close.
People forget that Smash 4 had 51 base game characters with a 2 year dev time and new character models, i feel like an extra year of cooking it up a 63ish base game roster isn't impossible.
I am also sure that if they cut a popular character like Ike, Palutena or Wolf for time restraints, they'll make it back as DLC, really.
Wouldn't be surprised if they added 12 newcomers base game and then have like 90% of the DLC be the fan-demanded cut veterans, with 2 DLC newcomers sprinkled there, each pass having 6 characters: 1 newcomer and 5 veterans.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
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Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,785
I don't think it's a rumor anymore when TTYD legitimately has support for rendering in 4K, which is impossible on the current Switch.

That said, IF SSBU receives further updates to make use of Switch 2's hardware, I hope they target 120 FPS rather than 4K resolution. Higher framerates would greatly improve the game's input lag, to the point where even if SSBU still has 6 frames of input lag even when rendering in 120 FPS, at least it's 1/20th of a second rather than 1/10th.
Oh damn. So it’s confirmed. Yeah I think the best route next game is to just use the Switch 2’s built in upgrades to make Ultimate 2 out of Ultimate. Would be sick.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
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Dec 9, 2009
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5,947
People forget that Smash 4 had 51 base game characters with a 2 year dev time and new character models, i feel like an extra year of cooking it up a 63ish base game roster isn't impossible.
I am also sure that if they cut a popular character like Ike, Palutena or Wolf for time restraints, they'll make it back as DLC, really.
Wouldn't be surprised if they added 12 newcomers base game and then have like 90% of the DLC be the fan-demanded cut veterans, with 2 DLC newcomers sprinkled there, each pass having 6 characters: 1 newcomer and 5 veterans.
That would be a pretty hard sell for me. I want the veterans back but having so much of the DLC be used on those veterans doesn’t give me much a reason to play the new game and not just go back to Ultimate. At least if we had a bunch of new characters, there’s something that differentiates the two. The last thing I want is for the game to feel like a lesser Ultimate.
 

SharkLord

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People forget that Smash 4 had 51 base game characters with a 2 year dev time and new character models, i feel like an extra year of cooking it up a 63ish base game roster isn't impossible.
I am also sure that if they cut a popular character like Ike, Palutena or Wolf for time restraints, they'll make it back as DLC, really.
Wouldn't be surprised if they added 12 newcomers base game and then have like 90% of the DLC be the fan-demanded cut veterans, with 2 DLC newcomers sprinkled there, each pass having 6 characters: 1 newcomer and 5 veterans.
Not gonna lie that's a pretty limited selection of newcomers. Counting clones, Brawl had 18 newcomers, and Smash 4 had 17 in base. And for what it's worth, Smash 4 had half the DLC made up of newcomers. I highly doubt they'd devote so much of the DLC to just veterans again, especially if they had a below-average selection of newcomers in the base game
 

Gengar84

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Dec 9, 2009
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You know what I think could be cool for some additional representation outside of just playable characters? If we got music from some games with no other representation. There are a lot of examples already on the first party front but not a ton of third party. There’s Terry’s stage, Pac Land, and Umbral Tower that have at least one song from another franchise I can think of. There’s probably more that I’m blanking on. I think the music DLC along with the Mii outfits was a great idea but it was underutilized.

Heres a few random game songs that would be cool for Smash that probably won’t get a character:

 
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Garteam

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I will be an optimist and say Smash 6's base roster will be in the high 60s to low 70s in terms of the number of characters, possibly reaching the high 70s when echoes are factored in.

Ultimate was able to bring back 57 unique characters from Smash for Wii U, recreate 7 veterans from scratch, and add 6 more newcomers on top of that. I don't think such a thing happening again is out of the question if the next Smash builds directly off Ultimate.
 
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TheQuester

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 16, 2023
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That would be a pretty hard sell for me. I want the veterans back but having so much of the DLC be used on those veterans doesn’t give me much a reason to play the new game and not just go back to Ultimate. At least if we had a bunch of new characters, there’s something that differentiates the two. The last thing I want is for the game to feel like a lesser Ultimate.
Can you all stop with the "lesser Ultimate" stuff? It gives people who like Ultimate a bad rap, i dont want Ultimate to be hated like Melee for rabbid fans who hate all the future games.
We really don't need Ultimate fans to be seen as the genwunners of the series.
If you think 14 newcomers base game, a brand new stage roster, new mechanics, new engine, new modes and etc aren't worth it for cuting Pichu, Corrin, Plant or Incineroar then stick to Ultimate as it's going to be backwards compatible.
I'm saying this as someone who thinks we'll get a Deluxe port, but it's obnoxious that people think that cuting or returning characters will make it a lesser Ultimate.
 
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ninjahmos

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You know what I think could be cool for some additional representation outside of just playable characters? If we got music from some games with no other representation. There are a lot of examples already on the first party front but not a ton of third party. There’s Terry’s stage, Pac Land, and Umbral Tower that have at least one song from another franchise I can think of. There’s probably more that I’m blanking on. I think the music DLC along with the Mii outfits was a great idea but it was underutilized.

Heres a few random game songs that would be cool for Smash that probably won’t get a character:

Here's another one:

 

Gengar84

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Can you all stop with the "lesser Ultimate" stuff? It gives people who like Ultimate a bad rap, i dont want Ultimate to be hated like Melee for rabbid fans who hate all the future games.
We really don't need Ultimate fans to be seen as the genwunners of the series.
If you think 14 newcomers base game, a brand new stage roster, new mechanics, new engine, new modes and etc aren't worth it for cuting Pichu, Corrin, Plant or Incineroar then stick to Ultimate as it's going to be backwards compatible.
I'm saying this as someone who thinks we'll get a Deluxe port, but it's obnoxious that people think that cuting or returning characters will make it a lesser Ultimate.
I’m not saying that it’s an inevitability. It’s just that if the roster is mostly the same with few newcomers and lots of cuts, it’s going to be hard for me to get excited about it. I don’t mind a smaller roster size if we at least get a lot of interesting newcomers to make up for what we’re losing. Basically I look at it as if it’s worth spending another $70 on if the roster is similar but smaller. If the DLC is almost exclusively returning veterans, there’s not a ton for me to get hyped about when I can still play Ultimate. Either way, it’s just my opinion and I’m sorry if I offended anyone that feels differently than I do.
 

SharkLord

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Can you all stop with the "lesser Ultimate" stuff? It gives people who like Ultimate a bad rap, i dont want Ultimate to be hated like Melee for rabbid fans who hate all the future games.
We really don't need Ultimate fans to be seen as the genwunners of the series.
If you think 14 newcomers base game, a brand new stage roster, new mechanics, new engine, new modes and etc aren't worth it for cuting Pichu, Corrin, Plant or Incineroar then stick to Ultimate as it's going to be backwards compatible.
I'm saying this as someone who thinks we'll get a Deluxe port, but it's obnoxious that people think that cuting or returning characters will make it a lesser Ultimate.
Nobody's attacking you or Ultimate fans, chill. Gengar's just voicing his opinion - that Ultimate was already the big EVERYONE IS HERE game, so he'd rather the next game focus more on newcomers to avoid getting stuck in Ultimate's shadow. That's all. Someone giving their piece on how they would feel about a certain scenario isn't a personal attack on your interests.
 

Gengar84

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Nobody's attacking you or Ultimate fans, chill. Gengar's just voicing his opinion - that Ultimate was already the big EVERYONE IS HERE game, so he'd rather the next game focus more on newcomers to avoid getting stuck in Ultimate's shadow. That's all. Someone giving their piece on how they would feel about a certain scenario isn't a personal attack on your interests.
I mean, my optimal scenario is Everyone is Here 2 with tons of new characters, modes, and content but that’s probably not entirely realistic outside of a deluxe port or just building onto the current version. If we’re slimming down to a 50 character roster like some suggest, I’d at least like to see a huge shake up in the roster so it doesn’t just feel like the same game with less content and a few newcomers here and there. One idea I proposed for a smaller roster I’d be happy with for Smash is a rotating “Nintendo vs X”. That way at least half the roster is fresh every game and it gives us a chance to see smaller characters from those developers.
 

pitchfulprocessing

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I don't think it's a rumor anymore when TTYD legitimately has support for rendering in 4K, which is impossible on the current Switch.

That said, IF SSBU receives further updates to make use of Switch 2's hardware, I hope they target 120 FPS rather than 4K resolution. Higher framerates would greatly improve the game's input lag, to the point where even if SSBU still has 6 frames of input lag even when rendering in 120 FPS, at least it's 1/20th of a second rather than 1/10th.
For what it's worth to my understanding the 4K resolution code has been found in other Switch games much earlier than when the Switch 2 would have even begun production. If you look at official Nintendo screenshots, you'll see that a lot of the BOTW and ACNH screenshots are in 4K despite that obviously being impossible natively. I could very well see the code just being for the game running on a devkit, so basically an actual PC, which isn't beholden to the same limitations as a native Switch for obvious reasons.

Digital Foundry has done some good videos on the specs of the Switch 2 based on the known information, and 4K would be very difficult to achieve for most titles just from the components we're aware of even with DLSS. You can see the first video has Cyberpunk running at 1080P 30 FPS inconsistently, which accounting for a bespoke sport and the increased bandwidth on the Switch could reach a stable 30 FPS. That said, we don't know all the exact details, and there is still the report of the BOTW demo at Gamescom running at 4K 60 FPS, so we'll have to see, but at the very least I definitely wouldn't expect The Matrix Awakens Unreal 5 demo to have been running without major adjustments.

I think 120 FPS wouldn't be worth it in comparison to reducing the input lag directly, that FPS has to never drop ever in a competitive scenario which is a big visual sacrifice, and a lot of displays still don't support it.
 
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TheQuester

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I think we can all agree that i overreacted on Gengar's statement.
I apologize to Gengar84 Gengar84 as i wasn't even upset because of his comment or opinion, it's because of a very obnoxious user who would hate on people who wanted a Smash 6 and would call it "lesser Ultimate" without listening to people in other forums.
 
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BuckleyTim

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 11, 2019
Messages
109
To figure out Smash Ult's weak points you just gotta look at what people automatically assume still won't be in a Smash successor that isn't hellbent on having the biggest roster of all time. Like I get it, we're not getting Subspace 2 but if they had stuff like a revamped Smash Run or a better successor to Spirits it'll still be a fun game on its own with its own identity.
 

Stratos

Smash Ace
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Dec 27, 2014
Messages
996
I've turned the list of characters I want to see as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series into a roster. Here is the roster:
View attachment 390025
What also amuses me about the roster I've made is thinking about the forms Kirby will take from all these characters, although normally I know I don't need to mention it. However, the point in general is that as is well known, not all of them will be able to come to Super Smash Bros. 6 until later games in the Super Smash Bros. series, let alone some will not generally come as newcomers to future games in the Super Smash Bros. series, and I certainly mean the much lesser known characters like Kevin, the protagonist of the video game for Game Boy Color the Karkurenbo Battle Monster Tactics, even though I want them all.
 
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Gengar84

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I think we can all agree that i overreacted on Gengar's statement.
I apologize to Gengar84 Gengar84 as i wasn't even upset because of his comment or opinion, it's because of a very obnoxious user who would hate on people who wanted a Smash 6 and would call it "lesser Ultimate" without listening to people in other forums.
No worries Quester. I suppose I should be more careful with my wording in the future so I don’t come across as dismissing people with other opinions, that wasn’t my intention. I try to be as respectful around here as I can but it can be difficult to express my thoughts clearly sometimes.
 

TheQuester

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Speaking of Astral Chain, i think Kyle might make it as an Assist Trophy, he gives me that AT vive, y'know?
 

Louie G.

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What would you say are the 7 most likely 1stparties and 7 most likely 3rd parties to get in?
Excluding Octoling just because that kinda goes without saying (and could be anything), and won't touch on vague labels like "new Pokemon" or "new Fire Emblem" that don't mean anything substantial yet.

- Characters I would be surprised not to see -
Tom Nook
- Arguably the most notable exclusion from the roster relative to the scale of his series and his significance within it. Animal Crossing is bigger than ever now and Smash always makes a point to add faces that casual and dedicated Nintendo fans alike would appreciate. No brainer.

Ring Fit Trainee - Sold over 14 million copies and solidifies it as Nintendo's biggest new IP since the release of Ultimate. If we're getting even just one new series in the next game, which of course we will, it would be pretty ridiculous if this isn't it.

Waluigi - Perhaps the only first party character with the overwhelming demand of previous fan favorites like Ridley and K. Rool, with neither of their respective obstacles. He's easily realizable in a playable role and he still consistently appears in games - he's part of Nintendo's cornerstone IP after all. And I'm not convinced any of the same-series competition is that high above him in the pecking order. He's THE crowd pleaser pick right now.

- Characters who could go either way -
Off the Hook
OR Squid Sisters - Splatoon has gotten big enough where it could warrant a second new addition on top of Octoling. The idols are massively popular / prominent characters and could sustain a more music oriented kit which Smash has yet to tap into. Kind of a sleeper pick that I've fully committed to, feels like one of those unexpected adds that would make a whole lot of sense in retrospect.

Isaac - With the lack of BIG new Nintendo IPs otherwise and nearly two decades of sufficient fan demand, I think Isaac's chances are as good as they've ever been. Golden Sun nostalgia seems pretty hot lately with the addition of the first two games on NSO as well. Granted I don't really like to weigh NSO as anything too important, but that alongside Golden Sun and Isaac's increased prominence in Ultimate is encouraging to say the least.

Oatchi AND/OR Rookie / Shephard - This has been a big console generation for Pikmin, and I'm increasingly convinced the timing lines up nicely for some Pikmin 4 consideration. Adding on the likes of Rock, Ice or Glow Pikmin to Olimar's existing kit may end up being a bit much. So it makes more sense to just let the new additions to the series inform a new moveset - be it Oatchi himself, or Oatchi as an accessory for a more traditional captain.

Mio AND/OR Noah - Still not totally convinced, but would also be silly of me to pretend there isn't a decent enough chance. I do think it'd be a hard sell to add them both though. I've heard Noah is more efficient on his own but I'm still convinced Mio's default weapon provides a bit more of a distinct gameplay hook. I know they can technically both use it, but let's be real - Noah would mostly be his sword, Mio would mostly be her discs.
-----

Don't feel like getting too deep into third parties for now so I'll just give a shortlist of some characters / series that I wouldn't be shocked to see any combination of appear in base game: Chun-Li, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, a second Sonic character, Puyo Puyo, Ninja Gaiden, Undertale. Maybe Geno.
 
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TheQuester

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Messages
469
Excluding Octoling just because that kinda goes without saying (and could be anything), and won't touch on vague labels like "new Pokemon" or "new Fire Emblem" that don't mean anything substantial yet.

- Characters I would be surprised not to see -
Tom Nook
- Arguably the most notable exclusion from the roster relative to the scale of his series and his significance within it. Animal Crossing is bigger than ever now and Smash always makes a point to add faces that casual and dedicated Nintendo fans alike would appreciate. No brainer.

Ring Fit Trainee - Sold over 14 million copies and solidifies it as Nintendo's biggest new IP since the release of Ultimate. If we're getting even just one new series in the next game, which of course we will, it would be pretty ridiculous if this isn't it.

Waluigi - Perhaps the only first party character with the overwhelming demand of previous fan favorites like Ridley and K. Rool, with neither of their respective obstacles. He's easily realizable in a playable role and he still consistently appears in games - he's part of Nintendo's cornerstone IP after all. And I'm not convinced any of the same-series competition is that high above him in the pecking order. He's THE crowd pleaser pick right now.

- Characters who could go either way -
Off the Hook
OR Squid Sisters - Splatoon has gotten big enough where it could warrant a second new addition on top of Octoling. The idols are massively popular / prominent characters and could sustain a more music oriented kit which Smash has yet to tap into. Kind of a sleeper pick that I've fully committed to, feels like one of those unexpected adds that would make a whole lot of sense in retrospect.

Isaac - With the lack of BIG new Nintendo IPs otherwise and nearly two decades of sufficient fan demand, I think Isaac's chances are as good as they've ever been. Golden Sun nostalgia seems pretty hot lately with the addition of the first two games on NSO as well. Granted I don't really like to weigh NSO as anything too important, but that alongside Golden Sun and Isaac's increased prominence in Ultimate is encouraging to say the least.

Oatchi AND/OR Rookie / Shephard - This has been a big console generation for Pikmin, and I'm increasingly convinced the timing lines up nicely for some Pikmin 4 consideration. Adding on the likes of Rock, Ice or Glow Pikmin to Olimar's existing kit may end up being a bit much. So it makes more sense to just let the new additions to the series inform a new moveset - be it Oatchi himself, or Oatchi as an accessory for a more traditional captain.

Mio AND/OR Noah - Still not totally convinced, but would also be silly of me to pretend there isn't a decent enough chance. I do think it'd be a hard sell to add them both though. I've heard Noah is more efficient on his own but I'm still convinced Mio's default weapon provides a bit more of a distinct gameplay hook. I know they can technically both use it, but let's be real - Noah would mostly be his sword, Mio would mostly be her discs.
-----

Don't feel like getting too deep into third parties for now so I'll just give a shortlist of some characters / series that I wouldn't be shocked to see any combination of appear in base game: Chun-Li, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, a second Sonic character, Puyo Puyo, Ninja Gaiden, Undertale. Maybe Geno.
What do you think of Astral Chain's chances?
 

Louie G.

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What do you think of Astral Chain's chances?
I don’t feel strongly about them, but it’s possible. Said sometime yesterday that I feel this one hinges on how cool or compelling Sakurai finds the idea.

With its future kind of uncertain and placing well below the success of a series like Ring Fit it doesn’t strike me as essential on its own. Can definitely see it going the way of Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment etc before it but I wouldn’t be shocked either way.
 
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JOJONumber691

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Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,785
Honestly if the rumors of backwards compatible upgrades on Switch 2 are true, I feel like just upgrading Ultimate, adding Adventure Mode levels to World of Light, hopefully bringing back Smash Run, and then FP3 would be more than enough.
Screw it going a step further. Add a couple newcomers too, just get Ring Fit, Meowscarda, Bandanna Dee, Octoling, and Mio out of the way in base game. Everyone knows these 5 are happening so just rip the band-aid off in this timeline and give them stages while you’re there. Bringing back every Stage would be cool too.
 

fogbadge

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What if we had a stage based on one of the Lego sets?

Great Deku Tree would be an awesome stage regardless
 

Guynamednelson

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Screw it going a step further. Add a couple newcomers too, just get Ring Fit, Meowscarda, Bandanna Dee, Octoling, and Mio out of the way in base game. Everyone knows these 5 are happening so just rip the band-aid off in this timeline and give them stages while you’re there.
...That would basically be an FP3. And no, they wouldn't be free in any timeline that has money.
 

TheQuester

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An Ultimate Deluxe is so unnecessary in my opinion. If the Switch 2 really is backwards compatible you can just play Ultimate on it as is. Honestly I'm done with Ultimate and I want to see something new.
I would prefer a Smash 6 at this point as well.
But i think most people would want a Ultimate Deluxe, so i'd be surprised if we do get a Smash 6, because i feel like UD would be less controversial and as profitable, so that's what im expecting.
 
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RileyXY1

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Jun 8, 2016
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I would prefer a Smash 6 at this point as well.
But i think most people would want a Ultimate Deluxe, so i'd be surprised if we do get a Smash 6, because i feel like UD would be less controversial and as profitable, so that's what im expecting.
I don't think it would be as profitable because the audience they're targeting it to has already bought Ultimate. And it would cost more, with it being 70 dollars as opposed to 60. I don't think people would want to spend more to buy a game they already own.
 

TheQuester

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If you really did you wouldn't constantly state that they ABSOLUTELY HAVE to do Ultimate Deluxe to avoid controversy, as if there is absolutely no way it would be.
I mean you can prefer something without thinking it's particulary likely. :drshrug:
For example i'd prefer the Squid Sisters or DJ Octavio over Octoling, but i think Octoling is more likely.
I think a Smash 6 would be at minimum somewhat controversial, maybe not like Sword/Shield, but it's going to have some level of controversy coming after Everyone is Here.

But again, Tekken 8 happened, which suprirsed me as i'd through 7 would be the last one, so hey, who knows, i've been wrong before.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I think a Smash 6 would be at minimum somewhat controversial, maybe not like Sword/Shield, but it's going to have some level of controversy coming after Everyone is Here.
And Ultimate Deluxe would be controversial just by making 30 million people need to pay $60 for the exact same game they've already bought but with 3 more characters.

Mario Kart 8 got away with it because it was only as big of a hit as a Wii U game could be, which is way less than 30 million sales.

I've already told you these over and over.
 

RileyXY1

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And Ultimate Deluxe would be controversial just by making 30 million people need to pay $60 for the exact same game they've already bought but with 3 more characters.

Mario Kart 8 got away with it because it was only as big of a hit as a Wii U game could be, which is way less than 30 million sales.

I've already told you these over and over.
Even worse: it's gonna be $70 this time.
 

TheQuester

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And Ultimate Deluxe would be controversial just by making 30 million people need to pay $60 for the exact same game they've already bought but with 3 more characters.
and a FP3.
A UD would be mostly only be controversial with the people who want a new game, which is way fewer than people who want UD, at least right now.

Mario Kart 8 got away with it because it was only as big of a hit as a Wii U game could be, which is way less than 30 million sales.
I'm not even sure we'll get a Mario Kart 9 tbh, i think there's still a high chance of a Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Plus with the booster pass in the base game and extra characters.
 
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Guynamednelson

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and a FP3.
Which would be $90 for The Same Game They've Already Played. That would be even more controversial. In fact, since Ultimate Deluxe would in no way be as "deluxe" as most people who want it hope for, why not just hope you get to pay $30 for FP3 instead of having to spend another $60 to spend $30 for it?
i think there's still a high chance of a Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Plus with the booster pass in the base game and extra characters.
Fun fact: I didn't think MK8 Deluxe was worth buying until the BCP. Nintendo was lucky the original game was a Wii U exclusive so not many people would have the same opinion. But SSBU is on an actually successful console, so more people will have already been burnt out on it.
 
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