Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

second from the right, second from the top is the stereotype spreader I was referring too

Which one? I'm pretty sure there's a dozen on that list.

 

[cashregister9]

Yo why tf his head so small?

Gameplay reason: He is already miserable to play and if his head was any bigger he would be even more miserable to play (Extra headshot damage and all that)

Lore reason: He is just like that (He has 2 hearts)

 

[fogbadge]

Symmetra's supposed to be autistic? Huh. The more you know.

according to the writer and director. not a very good one from what I know

 

[Ivander]

according to the writer and director. not a very good one from what I know

I don't see or have any issue with her. And from what I remember of the stuff that featured her, she's been going through some nicely handled character development. So I don't know if there is something problematic with her or it's just the usual group of people having a hissy fit despite most people who are like her not having any issue with her.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't see or have any issue with her. And from what I remember of the stuff that featured her, she's been going through some nicely handled character development. So I don't know if there is something problematic with her or it's just the usual group of people having a hissy fit despite most people who are like her not having any issue with her.

positives don’t cancel out being a stereotype

 

[Perkilator]

25 years ago today, Super Smash Bros. was first released for the Nintendo 64 in North America!

It features Poké Balls as items and Pikachu and Jigglypuff as playable characters.https://t.co/hpr3YqMmRp.https://t.co/bkHJxPJEcV. pic.twitter.com/usKo4tk2uC

— Bulbapedia (@Bulbapedia) April 26, 2024

When S.O., Nintendo?

 

[Gengar84]

Does anyone have anything to share about Ramtarra, Reaper, or Junker Queen? I don’t know anything about them beyond their designs, but going strictly by a design perspective, they’re the characters I’d be most interested in for Smash. Are any of them popular within the Overwatch fanbase that they could be considered?

 

[Ivander]

positives don’t cancel out being a stereotype

Nor does being a stereotype make them bad. You can have stereotypical characters still be good or well-handled characters. It just all depends on how they handled and treated.

Punch Out!! on Wii is a game where almost all the opponents are stereotypes, yet people still really like them because they were treated with care and respect. Context, portrayal and handling are crucial when making a character that is a stereotype and if all 3 are done respectfully, you can have a stereotype character who is both a good character and a character people who relate to that stereotype can like.

 

[Gengar84]

Nor does being a stereotype make them bad. You can have stereotypical characters still be good or well-handled characters. It just all depends on how they handled and treated.

Punch Out!! on Wii is a game where almost all the opponents are stereotypes, yet people still really like them because they were treated with care and respect. Context, portrayal and handling are crucial when making a character that is a stereotype and if all 3 are done respectfully, you can have a stereotype character who is both a good character and a character people who relate to that stereotype can like.

Even Mario himself is a pretty blatant stereotype of Italians. I agree that it’s not inherently bad as long as the character is treated respectfully and those stereotypes aren’t used as a way to insult or put down the character or the group. It’s a touchy subject though and I can understand how someone could be offended by it even if they weren’t done with bad intentions.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nor does being a stereotype make them bad. You can have stereotypical characters still be good or well-handled characters. It just all depends on how they handled and treated.

Punch Out!! on Wii is a game where almost all the opponents are stereotypes, yet people still really like them because they were treated with care and respect. Context, portrayal and handling are crucial when making a character that is a stereotype and if all 3 are done respectfully, you can have a stereotype character who is both a good character and a character people who relate to that stereotype can like.

Even Mario himself is a pretty blatant stereotype of Italians. I agree that it’s not inherently bad as long as the character is treated respectfully and those stereotypes aren’t used as a way to insult or put down the character or the group. It’s a touchy subject though and I can understand how someone could be offended by it even if they weren’t done with bad intentions.

IIRC this is one of those "the stereotype isn't bad, but it's bad that it's all there is in the media" type deals. Generally autistic characters are:

1. Savant level geniuses.
2. Robots.
3. Both.

It can cause problems IRL when such a rigid perception in the public is created by these over-prevalent stereotypes, so hating them is understandable.

 

[fogbadge]

IIRC this is one of those "the stereotype isn't bad, but it's bad that it's all there is in the media" type deals. Generally autistic characters are:

1. Savant level geniuses.
2. Robots.
3. Both.

It can cause problems IRL when such a rigid perception in the public is created by these over-prevalent stereotypes, so hating them is understandable.

exactly, that’s why it bugs that what few and far between autistic characters we have are all scientists

 

[Gengar84]

IIRC this is one of those "the stereotype isn't bad, but it's bad that it's all there is in the media" type deals. Generally autistic characters are:

1. Savant level geniuses.
2. Robots.
3. Both.

It can cause problems IRL when such a rigid perception in the public is created by these over-prevalent stereotypes, so hating them is understandable.

I know Rise of the TMNT got a lot of praise for how they handled Donatello, who the writer said was autistic in the show. He definitely falls into the first category though.

 

[ninjahmos]

Tracer: "I can yeet myself back in time to cover my mistakes!"

Like that hasn't been done before...

 

[Ivander]

Even Mario himself is a pretty blatant stereotype of Italians. I agree that it’s not inherently bad as long as the character is treated respectfully and those stereotypes aren’t used as a way to insult or put down the character or the group. It’s a touchy subject though and I can understand how someone could be offended by it even if they weren’t done with bad intentions.

I'm aware of that and don't hold it against those who have their own personal problems with the character. But it's really important to know whether the majority of people the character is based on actually have a problem with the character or not.
Because then you have scenarios like Speedy Gonzales where a lot of the people he was based after were genuinely upset when Warner Bros tried to put him to rest after only a bunch of people were complaining about him, some of whom weren't the people he was based on.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I know it's still too far in the future....

But, which characters that had strong presence and support during Ultimate's life cycle lost significant steam/momentum? And you don't expect them to recover in the next speculation cycle?

How about vice versa? Which characters have still maintained and will continue to do so?

Crash? The Crash hype was insane during Ultimate, but it kinda felt like it was mostly due to a combination of Crash 4 coming out and Banjo getting in Smash.
I'm sure he's still a popular request, but I doubt there's ever going to be the same sense of sheer urgency around him.

 

[Lionfranky]

Does anyone have anything to share about Ramtarra, Reaper, or Junker Queen? I don’t know anything about them beyond their designs, but going strictly by a design perspective, they’re the characters I’d be most interested in for Smash. Are any of them popular within the Overwatch fanbase that they could be considered?

Based on what Sakurai said about Heihachi, I don't think they will go for Ramattra. He doesn't show any potential moveset for recovery. There is limit to using creative freedom to give moveset especially when other potential candidates show more promising moveset. Among those 3, I would say Reaper makes sense for recovery with teleport ability. But, Ramtarra would bring more diverse moveset with his Nemesis Form as neutral B with CD. Junker Queen could use Jagged Blade as her recovery to twist from her original ability.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've mostly lost interest in playing Overwatch since the update to 2 and the developers cutting a massive chunk of the content they promised and made the massive update/"sequel" for in the first place.

I'd be more up for an Overwatch newcomer if Blizzard was less of a garbage company and if Overwatch as a game significantly improved again as I still like the majority of the characters.

 

[Gengar84]

I've mostly lost interest in playing Overwatch since the update to 2 and the developers cutting a massive chunk of the content they promised and made the massive update/"sequel" for in the first place.

I'd be more up for an Overwatch newcomer if Blizzard was less of a garbage company and if Overwatch as a game significantly improved again as I still like the majority of the characters.

I’m hoping that with Microsoft’s acquisition, they’re able to turn the company around and release all the problematic people that were making the work environment such a terrible place. Time will tell. There are a lot of great characters that would be awesome for Smash if they can.

Based on what Sakurai said about Heihachi, I don't think they will go for Ramattra. He doesn't show any potential moveset for recovery. There is limit to using creative freedom to give moveset especially when other potential candidates show more promising moveset. Among those 3, I would say Reaper makes sense for recovery with teleport ability. But, Ramtarra would bring more diverse moveset with his Nemesis Form as neutral B with CD. Junker Queen could use Jagged Blade as her recovery to twist from her original ability.

Maybe they could do something similar to what they did for Link’s recovery. Basically, they take a move that is normally grounded in the source game and give it some upward momentum when used in the air so it can be used as a recovery. I don’t really know any specifics on Ramattra’s abilities but I’d think there’s got to be something there you could work with.

 

[Kirbeh]

You’re being silly if you think any gacha character will come before a Genshin one.

that’s not just one fo the msot popular gacha s but one of the msot popular games of all time.

Nike still has a long way to go before it can match it.

I never said anything about them being likely, the whole indie list before that and the brief mobile mention were all characters/series I'd be happy to see, nothing more. I know realistically, stuff like Nikke, Pseudoregalia, Signalis, etc have an actual 0 chance and most of the others don't fare much better.

I really do not want those type of blatant waifu-bait harem games in Smash like Nikke, they creep me out.
I could see a Genshin rep, though, that game is popular as hell and it would definitely attract new players to smash, which is probably the goal of DLC.

That's pretty surface level and dismissive but I suppose I can't fault you for that considering the marketing. Either way, they're not really a serious consideration. If Mai couldn't get in as a background cameo I don't see any scenario where Nikke, Azure Lane,etc have any real chance.

I would include Granblue in the camp of mobile/gachas with some chance though. Probably still behind Genshin but that's a pretty notable series as well.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Overwatch, eh?


Mei.
That is all. Don't care about Overwatch in general.

 

[Schnee117]

"Reversing time to undo a mistake is boring" must suck being boring I guess
The actual issue for me is two-fold.

1. It's on an Overwatch character and **** Blizzard
2. Byleth should have had that via Divine Pulse

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

How does rewinding time even work in a multiplayer game? Never played Overwatch.

 

[cashregister9]

Honestly there are even other Blizzard characters that could do the whole time gimmick in a more interesting way tbh

Chromie! A ****in' Gnome Time Dragon

why do I keep trying to shill Blizzard characters despite them being a **** company?

The sunk cost fallacy!

How does rewinding time even work in a multiplayer game? Never played Overwatch.

Tracer goes back to her position from a few seconds ago, restoring any health and ammo she lost in that time

 

[KingofPhantoms]

How does rewinding time even work in a multiplayer game? Never played Overwatch.

Tracer rewinds several seconds worth of her last few actions, gaining back whatever health and ammo in her clip she had at the time and returning her to whatever coordinates she was at at that point in time.

It's generally used as a getaway tool, an ambush tool, and to help her survive fights.

 

[Ivander]

How does rewinding time even work in a multiplayer game? Never played Overwatch.

All it does is place Tracer where she was 6 seconds and gives her back HP and ammo that she had 6 seconds ago if her HP and ammo was lower.
It doesn't affect other players placement or HP, only hers.

 

[Schnee117]

How does rewinding time even work in a multiplayer game? Never played Overwatch.

It's basically just a move that reverses your character back to how they were a set point ago, usually like 5 seconds at absolute most.
Tracer uses it as an option to get out of a tight spot and recover health, Geras uses it in MK to help set up combos or get out of combos. Both have a lengthy cooldown/high cost and if you use them incorrectly you get harshly punished for it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How does rewinding time even work in a multiplayer game? Never played Overwatch.

It's more just context behind the ability, but she's able to manipulate time in order to teleport forward, and zip back to her previous position.

In Super Smash Bros., I'd imagine these would be her Up Special, and Down Special respectively. To translate the latter ability a bit better, I think it would be a two part move: Using the move once places a return point, and doing it a second time returns you to that point.

 

[Gengar84]

Honestly there are even other Blizzard characters that could do the whole time gimmick in a more interesting way tbh

Chromie! A ****in' Gnome Time Dragon

why do I keep trying to shill Blizzard characters despite them being a **** company?

The sunk cost fallacy!


Tracer goes back to her position from a few seconds ago, restoring any health and ammo she lost in that time

I agree that Activision/Blizzard has been a pretty toxic company for a while now but Blizzard used to be a very respectable company before the merger from what I’ve heard. They’ve made really big contributions to gaming history and have a ton of really cool characters and worlds. If Microsoft can turn them around and resolve their internal issues, I think there’s a lot of potential for Smash characters. It’s still sad to see a company that made games I loved growing up devolving into what they did but I’m hopeful things will change under new leadership.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Oh, I see. I was thinking it would also affect other players.
So it's essentially an undo button.

...I kinda don't want to have to deal with that in Smash

 

[Guynamednelson]

I’m hoping that with Microsoft’s acquisition, they’re able to turn the company around and release all the problematic people that were making the work environment such a terrible place. Time will tell. There are a lot of great characters that would be awesome for Smash if they can.

I am not very optimistic for Blizzard's futre after they announced BlizzCon 2024 will be canceled:

Blizzard announced Blizzcon 2024 is cancelled pic.twitter.com/uxDFY9h26t

— Dexerto (@Dexerto) April 25, 2024

Although I do wonder if MS wants to merge it with Quakecon. They own the hosts of both, and Quakecon is already not a Quake convention to most people anyway.

 

[CannonStreak]

Oh, I see. I was thinking it would also affect other players.
So it's essentially an undo button.

...I kinda don't want to have to deal with that in Smash

Maybe make it part of her Final Smash then so it wouldn’t be frequent?

 

[7NATOR]

So I was thinking about some of the Decisions Nintendo made with the DLC. Judging by what Sakurai said about Dragon Quest, Tekken, and Minecraft's inclusion in the game, Nintendo had a heavy hand in making sure these franchises got into the game, so Big Franchises that appeal to wide array of audiences is what Nintendo will prioritize (Along with Recent games in it's development)


So I decided to make a list of Franchises with either Big Franchise numbers, and/or a Very High Selling game, one that has outsold Smash Ultimate itself. I also didn't include in Franchises like Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto to the mix


-Assassins Creed
-Resident Evil
-Monster Hunter
-Tomb Raider
-Halo
-Mortal Kombat
-Witcher
-God of War
-Elder Scrolls
-Crash Bandicoot

All these Franchises have sold 50 Million Copies or more

In Addition, The Witcher 3 as a game is one of the ones that has Sold More than Smash Ultimate. Overwatch (Not listed on the franchise list) also is a game that has Outsold Smash Ultimate


Along with that, Here are popular Games that don't have sales numbers, but was able to find High Download numbers of High Player count Numbers

-Fortnite
-League of Legends
-Angry Birds
-Apex Legends
-Genshin Impact
-Among Us
-Fate/Stay Night

Looking at this, Resident Evil and Monster Hunter are the last Franchises that are based in Japan, with both of these Franchises being from Capcom. I think it's interesting thinking about this because we know at least with Dragon Quest, Sakurai was willing to use Slime to represent the Franchise, if Hero wasn't going to work out, and with both Resident Evil and Monster Hunter being bigger franchises than Dragon Quest, I wonder if plans didn't initially work out, if there are back up plans to represent the franchise on the Playable roster

Assassins Creed and Elder Scrolls are already represented in the game in the form of Costumes. Assassins Creed is especially notable as with the exception of Mario, Pokemon, and Minecraft, Assassins Creed has outsold every Franchise on the playable roster, even if some of those Franchises (Zelda and Animal Crossing) have games that have outsold any individual Assassin's Creed Game

Halo, and Technically Crash Bandicoot are the Franchises where their company is already represented in the game, in the form of Microsoft.

Angry Birds also fits into that as well with Sega now having ownership of the franchise

In any case, alot of these Franchises or games can be good for DLC in terms of expanding the Audience, but I do hope we see some of these Big Series on the Base Roster as well. I'm thinking we can get Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Halo, and Crash Bandicoot in base game if things turn out alright

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I think Dante's been hit the hardest in the post-Ultimate era. He's gone from being one of the most popular requests in speculation generally to a more niche choice now. I think the de-emphasization on third parties and "hype" choices that would please the crowd has hurt him, along with needing to compete against Capcom characters that were either deconfirmed during Ultimate (like the RE gang or Monster Hunter) or seen as unlikely but have now picked up some support (like Chun-Li or Zero). DMCV being further in the past also doesn't help, although the new mobile game and the anime may help him a bit.

I do think he could recover, but I'm skeptical if he'll ever reach the heights he hit during the Second Fighter's Pass. He reminds a fair bit of Rayman and Shovel Knight, two characters that rode contemporary trends in speculation and developments in their home franchise to being fairly popular in the past but are now struggling a bit.

In terms of characters that have increased in popularity for the foreseeable future, I think just about first-party has benefitted from the end of Ultimate. That's pretty self-explanatory though. People just think they're possible and/or likely again.

I feel like this isn't a great comparison, the difference is that Dante and Devil May Cry are both much more popular than the examples you listed. You could argue it's a bandwagon in the fanbase sure, and I definitely don't think it would reach the same heights as it did when Dante was trending on twitter, but people are still gonna keep requesting Dante a lot because he's Dante.

On Overwatch, I'm not the hugest fan of the game and there's certainly a lot you could say about how it's been handled and the company behind it, but it has some fun characters who I do think could be cool additions if they had to get in. I personally like Reinhardt the most, but I'd probably go with Doomfist, he's important and popular and has a fun moveset, and he would bring some diversity which is nice. Lucio or Reaper could also be fun. Tracer with a time reversal gimmick I could see being really cool, though it would be tough to implement for sure, Orcane seems like the best comparison.

That said, my dream time reversal character is Neku getting in with a Rindo echo, with Rindo differentiated by having his down special be a counter which rewinds time to 1.5 seconds before the counter activated.

 

[Schnee117]

Maybe make it part of her Final Smash then so it wouldn’t be frequent?

You literally just give it very limited usage with a harsh penalty for using it incorrectly.
Byleth has a set number of DP uses.
Tracer has a lengthy cooldown, you balance here by not making it possible for her to play lame until she gets it back like giving her mediocre movement speed
Geras also has a lengthy cooldown that also takes away his other defensive options.

I'm thinking we can get Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Halo, and Crash Bandicoot in base game if things turn out alright

You're not getting a new (honestly may not even get Banjo or Minecraft in base either but we'll see) Microsoft property in the base game even if it would be cool for Halo to bring in a Gravity Hammer or the Power Drain or Fuel Rod as items (this could easily be rectified if DLC packs also added items).

 

[7NATOR]

If we're talking about Characters with Time, I just want to say that if (when) Shadow gets in the game, if he can Slow down and/or Freeze Time with Chaos Control in his moveset, it Should NOT be a Counter

In fact, I think if you were to attack Shadow while He's doing it, he would be the one in Slow Mo/timestopped rather than you. I think the issue with Time Powers is that alot of the time there isn't a Special Drawback for using the power. At worst, it might take alot of energy so you can't spam it all the time, but going by how Sakurai love the art of Risk/Reward systems and how it applies to how fun something is, I think it would be fun if using Time powers was actually risky inherently, and not because of a cooldown system

Also the times Shadow has used Chaos Control, it's usually in an Offensive manuever, especially in the gameplay when it's there. Even the times where he does it on reaction to his opponent's Attack (Silver in 06 and Fake Shadow in Forces) it's usually done more to show off and not as an Explicit counter

 

[Sucumbio]

If we get a time manipulation character I'd vote for Prince of Persia. Or that one guy...time to split!

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Heya! My fellow members I'm returned for some weeks. In explain to Truth the Ceomasterz33 as daredevil persons.

I since as Smash fans. I'm maybe daredevil persons or Daredevil persons Smash fans? Why is Truth the Ceomasterz33 are daredevil or dangerous? I because to my signature or status. Is lawyer or insider or members. It's meaning daredevil to stunt or risky or behave or adventurous or dangerous or rebel.

I'll returned to this site but what happened to this thread......

What the beneath?!
This league or thread outta now away...

 

[TheQuester]

I personally think we're not getting a Overwatch character at this point, Overwatch 2 is dying, isn't it? I think it missed the boat.
Still, i think they really need to consider franchises like League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Genshin Impact, Borderlands, Fortnite, Apex Legends, Brawl Stars, Valorant, Mass Effect, Dragon Age and etc as DLC in the next game, even if it's not something most smash fans want they're very popular games with the general gaming audiencie.

In any case, alot of these Franchises or games can be good for DLC in terms of expanding the Audience, but I do hope we see some of these Big Series on the Base Roster as well. I'm thinking we can get Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Halo, and Crash Bandicoot in base game if things turn out alright

i highly doubt we're getting crash and halo in the base gam, monster hunter it seems like they want to represent it with the monsters, i could see resident evil though.

 

[CannonStreak]

You literally just give it very limited usage with a harsh penalty for using it incorrectly.
Byleth has a set number of DP uses.
Tracer has a lengthy cooldown, you balance here by not making it possible for her to play lame until she gets it back like giving her mediocre movement speed
Geras also has a lengthy cooldown that also takes away his other defensive options.

I forgot about the cooldown, honestly, but I still think it shouldn’t be used outside of special circumstances like a Final Smash. I think it is still a bit overpowered, even if that may depend on how they do the thing.

Still, it was just a mere suggestion I stated, nothing more.

 

[Mamboo07]

Angry Birds also fits into that as well with Sega now having ownership of the franchise

They haven't done anything with it.

Too bad about Bad Piggies 2 which got:

• Movie designs chosen over popular ones like Toons (There was a poll which was just for nothing)
• Restricted to Swedish regions during softlaunch phase (Never released worldwide)
• Stopped development of the game and back to the drawing board
• Nothing new heard from it after its development was stopped