Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

I guess I'll give it a shot as well. My attempt at a veteran breakdown based on what I think would be considered acceptable to the widest possible audience.

Honestly not too mad at this one, so pretty nice work, although I do question why both Lucario and Greninja get pushed to DLC. I feel like both have a very good shot of returning on base roster, and while I can see a scenario where we have to part with one of them I struggle to imagine us leaving them both behind. And Mewtwo as DLC to boot... I definitely think Pokemon fares better on base, unless we're outright getting two newcomers or something.

I think Byleth is a bit tricky to justify selling as DLC again too. Between them, Min Min and Pyra / Mythra I think they're better off just bringing back all the first party Fighter Pass DLC on principle. They're some of the newest characters on the roster so that seems valuable to maintain right now. Unless, again, we're getting a fresh new Fire Emblem newcomer. But personally I'm not really seeing Alear (maybe someone newer than them though?) and I think Byleth has good reason to stay over them, or alongside them, anyway since Three Houses was a much bigger game than Engage. It feels weird batting for them because I really don't care what happens but I just have trouble justifying them not just being there from the beginning.

No qualms with the third parties, honestly. Actually lines up pretty well with what I've been thinking, give or take Cloud and Steve for base, but I can easily understand why you would boot them over to DLC. Also breaks my heart a bit that Incineroar is one of the only loosies after everything is said and done here but as we established already it's not as if Pokemon will be lacking at all.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Hot take, but so long as we have , is absolutely safe regardless what you personally think of his inclusion.

Any roster that goes out of their way to scrap Dark Pit is not being realistic.

 

[Kirbeh]

Honestly not too mad at this one, so pretty nice work, although I do question why both Lucario and Greninja get pushed to DLC. I feel like both have a very good shot of returning on base roster, and while I can see a scenario where we have to part with one of them I struggle to imagine us leaving them both behind. And Mewtwo as DLC to boot... I definitely think Pokemon fares better on base, unless we're outright getting two newcomers or something.

I think Byleth is a bit tricky to justify selling as DLC again too. Between them, Min Min and Pyra / Mythra I think they're better off just bringing back all the first party Fighter Pass DLC on principle. They're some of the newest characters on the roster so that seems valuable to maintain right now. Unless, again, we're getting a fresh new Fire Emblem newcomer. But personally I'm not really seeing Alear (maybe someone newer than them though?) and I think Byleth has good reason to stay over them, or alongside them, anyway since Three Houses was a much bigger game than Engage. It feels weird batting for them because I really don't care what happens but I just have trouble justifying them not just being there from the beginning.

No qualms with the third parties, honestly. Actually lines up pretty well with what I've been thinking, give or take Cloud and Steve for base, but I can easily understand why you would boot them over to DLC. Also breaks my heart a bit that Incineroar is one of the only loosies after everything is said and done here but as we established already it's not as if Pokemon will be lacking at all.

My reasoning for is basically two things. First, I'm going on the assumption that maintaining the Pokémon Trainer is going to be a priority. As they account for 3 characters and I'm assuming the series also gets a newcomer in base, something had to give. Between cutting an additional Pokémon or going into smaller/single rep series, I prioritized keeping as many series as possible. (Similar reasoning for Fire Emblem which is the other series with a high headcount.)
The second reason, and I guess I'll rope in as well; I just think they'd sell. 3 of the most popular Pokémon and two actually decently liked FE characters. People would be sad to them gone, but I don't think they take priority over Marth/Ike, Pikachu/Zard, etc. They're also popular enough to where people would want them back and actually buy them. And same as with Pokémon, I'm including a "new FE character" in my newcomers. Who? I don't know. Could be from the next new game, maybe Alear does just barely make the cut, maybe they go for an older character if a remake is around the corner, maybe they go back and do a popular request (like finally going for Lyn.) It is just my perspective, but I don't see Byleth as much of a mainstay currently. I can still easily see them make base mind you, but I'd still prioritize a newcomer, hence the DLC placement.

Otherwise, I'm not against moving one of the 'mon, Byleth and Icies into base, then we get (Smash) 64 veterans. I'd prefer more in base myself, but I wanted to maximize the potential newcomer count.

As for the 3Ps, I figured Squeenix has more to gain from milking FF7. It has a much wider audience on the world scale compared to DQ. Steve is in a similar boat of being too profitable and for his tedious design dev wise.

And yeah, would hurt the most since he's my most played character in Ult.

 

[fogbadge]

Hot take, but so long as we have , is absolutely safe regardless what you personally think of his inclusion.

Any roster that goes out of their way to scrap Dark Pit is not being realistic.

yeah sak aint given any of his characters the boot

 

[SpecterFlower]

Don’t start with the attitude just cause you made a mistake. Knowing who owns what character is important

and knowing the complexities of it is also important.

bayonetta cannot be treated like any other 3rd party.

every other 3rd party nintendo who has no stake in.

for bayonetta that's different, they fund and publish everything as I mentioned, all sega does is own bayonetta and say yes to whatever nintendo wants. they get some money without having to do anything so it works for them which is why she wont ever be in the same tier as the other 3rd parties, lets say smash only sells 3 mil copies starting form the next game, almost every other 3rd party would be out, except bayonetta becuase nintendo is the one making those decions on wheter or not to keep her, not sega.

in this case you have to look at the technicalities which is why i put her there, overall shes not owned by Nintendo yes I agree. but shes tied to the hip with nintendo if sega were ever to say no to Nintendo using bayonetta they would probably just buy the ip from them or the series just dies forever, which is why i doubt they will ever say no.

Nintendo requested that bayonetta origins would be made in combo with bayonetta 3, they want to expand the ip as their own, which is why they will never let it go, its their mature series that even if everyone else leaves they will always have.

PlatinumGames: “we didn’t know whether Bayonetta 3 or Bayonetta Origins would release first”

In the past 12 months, Bayonetta fans got to play Bayonetta 3 and Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon. It was a busy time, and in an interview with Famitsu that was translated by Nintendo…

mynintendonews.com

in the same vain we can say dragon quest isnt owned by square enix, armor studio, bird studio, koichii sugiyama are all ahead in the pecking order of who owns it with square enix still owning some but and square enix owns the publishing rights in the same vain as bayonetta, sega owns it but nitnendo has the publishing rights the legalities of all these ips is much mroe complex than x company owns it at times you cant just blanket treat them the same.

we know the extent of DQ ownership for square isnt enough to actually own it, as they have to get horris permission for eveything.

this is why Iput her in 1st party, the biggest person in the room here is nitnendo, as they request and sega just says yes or no, and sega being sega will not turn down whatever they ask. you will never see mario or xenoblade on playsation you will never see bayonetta after 2 on playsation. and in the case of smash brothers she is more of a 1st party than 3rd party.

every ip has thier own unqiue situation, the only ones nintendo is reaally intertwined with outside of thier own studio is bayonetta (and kind of xenogeaers as one of thier dev teams made xenosaga and xenogears however they were the devs not the publishers so theres not really much there)

 

[ScrubReborn]

Hot take, but so long as we have , is absolutely safe regardless what you personally think of his inclusion.

Any roster that goes out of their way to scrap Dark Pit is not being realistic.

I'd hope this ain't hot lol. Clones have been historically low priority, true, and I don't expect Dark Pit to be different, but there's "clone", and then there's "might as well be a costume" Dark Pit. When he's such an effortless creation that he could probably be finished in the literal last week of development by a couple slacker employees, I feel like how much priority he has ceases to matter. (of course assuming we still have the real Pit first).

I'm sure the likes of Ricther, Lucina and Daisy will get to eat good 'cause of this too. Some people think this extends to every echo though, and I can't see it. Ones with lots of different animations like Dark Samus might not be so effortless to reinclude. And Ken's a echo in name only, so things are prolly more up in the air for him too. I think he's 90% likely to return if they want him, but I doubt it's a "as long as Ryu's in, Ken's here too" thing.

 

[SpecterFlower]

anyway my take on echo fighters is give the devs a month long break instead of adding them.

 

[fogbadge]

and knowing the complexities of it is also important.

bayonetta cannot be treated like any other 3rd party.

every other 3rd party nintendo who has no stake in.

for bayonetta that's different, they fund and publish everything as I mentioned, all sega does is own bayonetta and say yes to whatever nintendo wants. they get some money without having to do anything so it works for them which is why she wont ever be in the same tier as the other 3rd parties, lets say smash only sells 3 mil copies starting form the next game, almost every other 3rd party would be out, except bayonetta becuase nintendo is the one making those decions on wheter or not to keep her, not sega.

in this case you have to look at the technicalities which is why i put her there, overall shes not owned by Nintendo yes I agree. but shes tied to the hip with nintendo if sega were ever to say no to Nintendo using bayonetta they would probably just buy the ip from them or the series just dies forever, which is why i doubt they will ever say no.

Nintendo requested that bayonetta origins would be made in combo with bayonetta 3, they want to expand the ip as their own, which is why they will never let it go, its their mature series that even if everyone else leaves they will always have.

PlatinumGames: “we didn’t know whether Bayonetta 3 or Bayonetta Origins would release first”

In the past 12 months, Bayonetta fans got to play Bayonetta 3 and Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon. It was a busy time, and in an interview with Famitsu that was translated by Nintendo…

mynintendonews.com

in the same vain we can say dragon quest isnt owned by square enix, armor studio, bird studio, koichii sugiyama are all ahead in the pecking order of who owns it with square enix still owning some but and square enix owns the publishing rights in the same vain as bayonetta, sega owns it but nitnendo has the publishing rights the legalities of all these ips is much mroe complex than x company owns it at times you cant just blanket treat them the same.

we know the extent of DQ ownership for square isnt enough to actually own it, as they have to get horris permission for eveything.

this is why Iput her in 1st party, the biggest person in the room here is nitnendo, as they request and sega just says yes or no, and sega being sega will not turn down whatever they ask. you will never see mario or xenoblade on playsation you will never see bayonetta after 2 on playsation. and in the case of smash brothers she is more of a 1st party than 3rd party.

every ip has thier own unqiue situation, the only ones nintendo is reaally intertwined with outside of thier own studio is bayonetta (and kind of xenogeaers as one of thier dev teams made xenosaga and xenogears however they were the devs not the publishers so theres not really much there)

that still doesn't mean they own her. it doesn't change the fact that while nintendo can fund her games all they want they still have to negotiate to use her in smash smae as any other 3rd party. you don't think she's the same as the other 3rd parties? fine. but you can't treat like a first party cause she isn't

 

[SpecterFlower]

that still doesn't mean they own her. it doesn't change the fact that while nintendo can fund her games all they want they still have to negotiate to use her in smash smae as any other 3rd party. you don't think she's the same as the other 3rd parties? fine. but you can't treat like a first party cause she isn't

you missed the point. in smash discussion she is closer to a 1st party than a 3rd party.
she isnt running by the same rules as the others, they join in to market a new game or whatever, Nintendo will force bayonetta stuff down your throats whether you want it or not because they have an actual stake in how well she sells.

same reason shulk got in 4, xenoblade was at the time a niche game on the wii with nothing else.

 

[CannonStreak]

that still doesn't mean they own her. it doesn't change the fact that while nintendo can fund her games all they want they still have to negotiate to use her in smash smae as any other 3rd party. you don't think she's the same as the other 3rd parties? fine. but you can't treat like a first party cause she isn't

I have to agree with what you said here, and what you said before. Any association Bayonetta has with Nintendo does only so much, or anything at all, to change the fact that Nintendo does NOT own her.

 

[fogbadge]

you missed the point. in smash discussion she is closer to a 1st party than a 3rd party.
she isnt running by the same rules as the others, they join in to market a new game or whatever, Nintendo will force bayonetta stuff down your throats whether you want it or not because they have an actual stake in how well she sells.

same reason shulk got in 4, xenoblade was at the time a niche game on the wii with nothing else.

no you're missing the point that what makes a character 3rd or 1st party is who owns it. the fact that you keep saying "practically" or essentially" rather than just she is. nintendo don't own her she's 3rd party. sega can do whatever they like with her but at the end of the day nintendo need permission

and you're selling shilk short there. firstly and major difference is that nintendo actually own him. secondly shulk is the main character from one of the games of the massive operation rainfall movement which may have had an effect on him

 

[Louie G.]

same reason shulk got in 4, xenoblade was at the time a niche game on the wii with nothing else.

I’m pretty sure Shulk wasn’t added to Smash 4 so Nintendo could “force him down our throats”. I know this isn’t your intended takeaway but that implication just didn’t sit right with me. In 2011 when the roster was being decided, Xenoblade Chronicles had not even released in America. Its future was uncertain and their stake in the game was not especially high. Operation Rainfall may or may not have even existed yet.

I think Sakurai chose to add Shulk because he saw his potential and likes Xenoblade. It was a boost for a cult favorite game like Ness. Nintendo really isn’t ruling the roster with an iron fist like people think, at least not as far as we’re aware. The only time we know for certain that Nintendo had dominant creative control over character choices was Ultimate DLC.

I’m sure they can make suggestions, and have the final say, but assuming additions like this just happen because Nintendo makes it so is a bad faith reading on the roster and an uninformed one.

 

[smashkirby]

Some stuff I've been meaning to respond to for some time, but... college stuff.

One thing I miss and hope Smash 6 delivers is more weird/niche character inclusions. I understand the big names have more of an impact when they're announced, but the weirdos can be just as influential longterm. Ultimate didn't really deliver on this front... Plant was pretty much the only wacky newcomer. Richter was pretty unknown and unexpected but his moveset is just a copy of Simon's, and while Terry was also kind of obscure and unexpected, he's just another fighting game character whose moveset is almost 1:1 with that of his original game.

I want more obscure characters with weird movesets. Stuff like Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt Duo. Come to think of it, most of Smash 4's newcomers were like that. I mean, at the time, who expected Rosalina and Luma to join the fight as a duo character over series mainstays like Toad and (seemingly) Bowser Jr. or fan favorites like Geno, Paper Mario and Waluigi? Then Bowser Jr. joined and defied expectations by essentially being "Junior Clown Car: the moveset feat. Koopalings". There was also Robin getting in over Chrom with tomes and a Levin Sword in tow and a pretty unique durability gimmick, and Shulk who (at the time) was from a really niche and brought stat manipulation to Smash.

Ultimate's newcomers all being fan requests and/or prolific third parties is fine, I just wish some obscure fighters were also given a chance. The big names are exciting to see, but as time goes on, the hype naturally fades and sometimes you're left with a somewhat... meh moveset. Look at Ridley and Banjo for example. Hopefully the next game tries to strike a balance.

This is certainly something I hope Smash can return to doing after Ultimate's 'unique circumstances' in terms of character selection. Lip, Saki, Isaac, Ray, Kyle Hyde, Raymond Bryce, Captain Rainbow, Yuka, Chibi-Robo, Diskun, etc. I'll take all of those oddball picks for Smash and many more.

For what it's worth, this is precisly why I've had more fun playing the Ice Climbers, Mr. G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt. Their "out-there" movesets definitely endeared me to them more than most other characters. Heck, even WFT with their yoga gimmick was quite the sight.

I'll even be honest and admit that by the time of Smash 4, I wasn't AS big on Bowser Jr. joining Smash like I was during Brawl's pre-release period. This being said, if it wasn't for the fact that the ESRB leak leaked that the Koopalings would be joining Smash, I can say for certain that the reveal trailer for Jr. and the Koopalings definitely would have automatically convinced to get Smash 4, with Duck Hunt being the icing on the cake.

Wii Fit and Duck Hunt aren't obscure or niche, though. But unexpected and wackier additions, sure (though Duck Hunt did have some following prior to being leaked).

As far as wackier additions for the future go, a lot of the outstanding Nintendo franchises could offer something on the wild side. Ring Fit, Excitebike, Wave Race, Advance Wars, Rhythm Heaven, etc. etc. ...all of those I would see the representative taking on a highly unconventional fighting style.

Another avenue that I'd like to put out is another Animal Crossing character beyond Tom Nook. Available characters with unconventional fighting styles? Check. Massive enough series to justify it? Yep. Yet so many people seem convinced that its representation isn't going past Villager and Isabelle...lol Tom Nook is like the most obvious addition there is and he is still going to catch plenty of people off-guard if he gets in. But a second AC character in the same game? It's a bold take maybe but I could see it happening given the "surprising, yet sensible in retrospect" factor.

If I'm being honest, it kind of bums me out how most folks are quick to dismiss such characters, ESPECIALLY if they hail from Nintendo. It's just one of the things I feel like 3rd party additions hurt in the long run.

Given Smash's "hype-culture" these days...

Until Ultimate?? Smash 4 added a ton of female fighters

Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Best character Rosalina
Palutena
Miis
Robin
Lucina
Wendy technically
Corrin
Bayonetta


Which was a huge jump from Samus, Peach, Zelda, Samus again, Zelda again, half of Ice Climbers and maybe Jigglypuff?



Ultimate did nicely build on this though with

Female Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Inkling
Isabelle
Daisy
Kazooie (sort of)
Byleth
Min Min
Pyra
Mythra
Alex

I know I'm REALLY late to this, but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out Spiky-eared Pichu, who is playable via Pichu 5th/6th alternate costume.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

In 2011 when the roster was being decided,

2012.
The project proposal for Smash For was finalized on April 26th, 2012.
Which was weeks after the NA release of Xenoblade.

It is true the series had no known future at the time, but Xenoblade HAD gone international by then.

 

[Guynamednelson]

yeah sak aint given any of his characters the boot

It's not that. It's that if you have Pit's model/animations/code already made, you have Dark Pit's too.

 

[Louie G.]

2012.
The project proposal for Smash For was finalized on April 26th, 2012.
Which was weeks after the NA release of Xenoblade.

It is true the series had no known future at the time, but Xenoblade HAD gone international by then.

Right, thanks for the correction.

My point still stands about that bad faith reading on the roster / Shulk’s inclusion but I’m sure the Operation Rainfall stuff and the actual American release helped move things along and made Shulk feel like more of a viable inclusion then.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With character selections, never underestimate the power of fighters dancing in Sakurai's head. I can easily imagine once the concept of Monado and changing Shulk's abilities in fights crystalized, it made a lot of sense to include him, even if Nintendo may have pushed for it to begin with.

 

[Louie G.]

With character selections, never underestimate the power of fighters dancing in Sakurai's head. I can easily imagine once the concept of Monado and changing Shulk's abilities in fights crystalized, it made a lot of sense to include him, even if Nintendo may have pushed for it to begin with.

I think the addition of the Metal Face boss on Guar Plains really affirms how much Xenoblade Chronicles excited Sakurai and the team. Not to mention how unique something like Monado Arts were to Smash at the time, a ton of love was put into making Shulk stand out.

Not trying to incite cries of Sakurai bias, but I do think it's fair to say sometimes you can tell when the crew is just having a lot of fun getting their hands on a specific character or universe. Xenoblade definitely felt like a celebration where they went above and beyond, as did all the Castlevania content in Ultimate, Hero's multitude of spells and everything about Terry.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the addition of the Metal Face boss on Guar Plains really affirms how much Xenoblade Chronicles excited Sakurai and the team. Not to mention how unique something like Monado Arts were to Smash at the time, a ton of love was put into making Shulk stand out.

Not trying to incite cries of Sakurai bias, but I do think it's fair to say sometimes you can tell when the crew is just having a lot of fun getting their hands on a specific character or universe. Xenoblade definitely felt like a celebration where they went above and beyond, as did all the Castlevania content in Ultimate, Hero's multitude of spells and everything about Terry.

Only thing missing in Ultimate’s case, IMO, is a full-fledged boss battle against Metal Face. They’d probably need to change it to a different arena to make it work, I’m aware (maybe where you fight him in his last boss battle in Xenoblade 1)?

 

[Will]

(maybe where you fight him in his last boss battle in Xenoblade 1)?

Sword Valley would be a baller stage. It’s one of the more iconic Xenoblade areas that isn’t Bionis’ Leg

 

[fogbadge]

I remember shulk was one of three characters I was very confident would get into smash. I can’t remember why. The other two were villager and the miis so they were pretty safe bets

 

[Wonder Smash]

I just wanted to show off a really cool Ultimate mod for Cloud made by user Hero-Zero. This is pretty much exactly what I would have loved the Final Fantasy Remake games to have looked like. I think it perfectly captures the look of the original art style from FFVII in a 3D model.

View attachment 386389
View attachment 386390

The same user also made a similar art style mod for Pikachu

View attachment 386394
View attachment 386395

How would you guys feel if the next Smash game went with a cel shaded style like this where the characters aim to look like their original artworks? I think it looks awesome and I’d love to see the whole game in a similar style.

It looks good for some characters but what about other characters like Snake and Bayonetta?

 

[SPEN18]

I was hoping for Isaac rather than Shulk at the time, though I was hyped for Shulk when he was announced, too. Actually back then Golden Sun had a significantly better resumé than Xenoblade did, Xenoblade just had the better timing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Would you mind explaining why Impa doesn't work as Sheik's replacement?
I think you could incorporate plenty of BotW and TotK stuff to make Impa similar yet distinct from Sheik.
I brought back TP Ganondorf because I brought back OoT Link while basing Impa on her BotW version.
Ike may be the most popular FE Lord, but Byleth does hail from the best-selling FE game to date so I had a stronger case for keeping Byleth in the base game over Ike and I hated doing that to Ike.
I never understood why Falco stayed over Wolf and even then I couldn't justify keeping either of them when the Starfox franchise is not in a healthy state.
It was amazing to control Master Hand in World of Light, but I don't think what presented there would gel well in regular Smash gameplay
Tabuu would require some major tinkling, but I can the potential moveset buried within his boss fight.

Because Impa has skills Sheik doesn't. She has unique magic, a different bodyshape(they were only similar in OOT), and does stuff differently. She's had multiple appearances with various designs and skills.

I didn't say anything about having issues making Impa distinct? I'm actually saying she easily can be. That was my point, heh. That's why she doesn't work as a replacement. They're extremely different.

Yeah, I don't see OOT Link seriously reappearing when the BOTW design is the latest one. If anything, I see him more taking from TOTK. I also see no real reason why you can't have two characters who both take from the same game. Sheik took cues from BOTW too, just not to the same degree as Link.

TP Ganondorf means he's overly slow again to match his core design philosophy. That only hurts him. There's not really a point to return to that design when his OOT fits him and his playstyle better. He still keeps his heavy design, but also gains speed and way more viability.

Ike is basically the most popular after Marth. He has zero chance of being cut. If they reduced it to two entirely, he's pretty much the mainstay with Marth. Lucina obviously would be kept unless all clones were gone. Byleth being DLC again is far more likely in comparison. Robin probably wouldn't be DLC either.

Falco is obvious. He's way more popular than Wolf and is also way easier to create. So it was a matter of "this is just plain easier to get done".

I don't see Tabuu remotely having a chance to be playable, though. He's a one-off boss and while cool, isn't really any different from Master Hand in practice(who at least notably was designed with normal Smash Controls before. Not just in Ultimate, but in Smash 64, he had regular controls too. It's unclear if it was for beta testing purposes or if like the other characters, they were clearly designed to be as normal as possible within the game's settings. Considering how there's no real oddity controlling the other Mini-bosses, etc., the latter seems the most likely).

I didn'tgo over Pokemon slightly beforehand, but I'll note some things; Pokemon Trainer is a maybe to come back. Pikachu is clearly the mascot and the core choice. So it won't get cut. Jigglypuff could go either way, and Mewtwo's in a very similar boat. Lucario has no chance of being cut. Greninja and Incineroar are iffy on possible returning, and Pichu's dead in the water bar extra time(which would likely be spent on another clone). Charizard probably will return if PT gets cut.

That said, I did speak of Palutena being a clear mainstay as well. Same with a Child Link. I know there's a lot to respond to, but, well, that's what happens when you make rosters. Also, Ryu won't be cut to keep Terry in. They both would be in plausibly, though. And I saw your oddity about Ryu Hayabusa representing fighting games. Uh, no. If he's in due to Dead or Alive, it's cause he's a Spirit for an actual character created for said franchise. He's a Ninja Gaiden character first and foremost.

That said, if this isn't based upon realism, I get where you're coming from, since it's more meant for pure wants(hence some odd choices like cutting the core Fighting Game character). Major overhauls aren't realistic. Not to the point of what people suggest. That said, Ganondorf suddenly being a slow tank again isn't completely unrealistic, but they aren't reverting Link back completely just like that. If he's getting more updates, it'll be the latest game in the franchise that's unique. Which the latest thusfar... is TOTK.

And yeah, Mr. Game & Watch is a safe return. No way he's getting cut either. Duck Hunt may not make it back in, among others(like Wii Fit Trainer), but this guy is a really important character in Nintendo history. Well, so to speak(due to being a technical OC). Point stands that cutting him is vastly unrealistic. I can understand not every newcomer will make it in general(K. Rool I'm not so sure would really be cut, though. I also highly doubt we're getting that many Mario cuts. Doc and Plant, maybe. Bowser Jr. I can see due to how hard he is to make work well. Rosalina is much safer, though.

I also don't see us losing Pyra/Mythra and gaining two new characters. A lot of these feel too much like switching out for the sake of it and less that they have a legit chance.

I have not seen the revised roster yet, so apologies if I missed any chances that would make this outdated. I'm replying to the message first sent to me.

------------------

Oh, right, I forgot the thing about the Doctor Mario question.

Yeah, he'd be awesome as a mainstay. By Brawl, he would've further developed into a more unique character. He's already been quite diverse from Mario in 4 and later Ultimate. I'd still like to see a tad more changes, but he's a pretty fun gameplay clone that makes you feel like you got somebody new to work with~

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, I've been playing Contra: Operation Galuga, and I can't help but notice how Bill and Lance suddenly have the ability to double jump, dash, and air dash. Almost as if they're trying to make it canon that they their movesets are more compatible with a certain other game.

 

[Gengar84]

So, I've been playing Contra: Operation Galuga, and I can't help but notice how Bill and Lance suddenly have the ability to double jump, dash, and air dash. Almost as if they're trying to make it canon that they their movesets are more compatible with a certain other game.

Awesome. I really want to buy that game at some point but I’m currently working on my backlog of games I already own. Do Bill and Lance still play exactly the same or are there differences between them now?

 

[SpecterFlower]

I think the addition of the Metal Face boss on Guar Plains really affirms how much Xenoblade Chronicles excited Sakurai and the team. Not to mention how unique something like Monado Arts were to Smash at the time, a ton of love was put into making Shulk stand out.

Not trying to incite cries of Sakurai bias, but I do think it's fair to say sometimes you can tell when the crew is just having a lot of fun getting their hands on a specific character or universe. Xenoblade definitely felt like a celebration where they went above and beyond, as did all the Castlevania content in Ultimate, Hero's multitude of spells and everything about Terry.

well there is some sakurai bias,

look at the genres of the dlc characters, its 50% jrpg's, one of the worst selling genres out there.

but hey im eating good, I

love jrpgs, do crono next.

speaking of fun though eh i don think theres too much bias during the actual development of characters, all of them (smash ultimate) are super unique and stand out, plus some really fun animations.

ultimate really demonstrated how the game design has just gotten better for the series.

 

[Louie G.]

well there is some sakurai bias,

look at the genres of the dlc characters, its 50% jrpg's, one of the worst selling genres out there.

Why do you blame the DLC picks on Sakurai, which are well documented to have been selected by Nintendo, and then suggest Nintendo is mandating Shulk and Bayonetta? I’m just confused what your point is now, who is calling the shots here?

Some bias is inevitable by human nature, Sakurai is not a man without his tastes, but DLC is not a good demonstration of that because it’s one instance where we can say with full confirmation that executive meddling was involved and Sakurai lacked full creative control. If anyone is biased toward JRPGs it’s apparently the suits at Nintendo.

I know you didn’t mean this to criticize or as a bad thing, but I’m just suggesting you reconsider your philosophy on your roster if your assumptions about how characters were chosen and who chose them are in reverse.

 

[Lionfranky]

well i made one

im only going to explain i think if people actually ask cause there is, a lot to explain.

to be honest who would make the most money while adding in some fan favs and returning characters was what i was going for with the dlc.
so most of the characters i want didnt make it in cause they wouldn't make money.

Spoiler: roster

View attachment 386433

the base roster cut isnt giant because i do think they will be given a bigger budget bigger team and more time to make this one.

and licensing issues aside from square enix are basically moot, smash ultimate made too much money for that.

we even saw with sephiorth, for basegame ultimate they couldn't do anything with FF, during Dlc though they could get remixes and everything.

I know people have their preference all that, but when they put "character without game on Nintendo platform" but not Master Chief... that makes my blood boil.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I know people have their preference all that, but when they put "character without game on Nintendo platform" but not Master Chief... that makes my blood boil.

Might want to get some therapy for that.

That is not a normal reaction whatsoever.

 

[FazDude]

I know people have their preference all that, but when they put "character without game on Nintendo platform" but not Master Chief... that makes my blood boil.

Master Chief isn't on Nintendo either.

 

[Gengar84]

I know people have their preference all that, but when they put "character without game on Nintendo platform" but not Master Chief... that makes my blood boil.

I’ve got Illidan from WarCraft, Zegram from Rogue Galaxy, and Raziel from Soul Reaver on my most wanted list. There are other characters on my list whose series is on Nintendo but their specific game isn’t (Velvet, Alphen/Shionne and Jinx). I’ve got nothing against Master Chief but I don’t really have a strong affinity for him or Halo.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Master Chief isn't on Nintendo either.

That's the point.

He's upset they don't have Chief instead of someone else like Kratos.

Not because it's someone that is from a rival console, but because it isn't the character he likes.

 

[FazDude]

That's the point.

He's upset they don't have Chief instead of someone else like Kratos.

Sorry; eepy brain strikes again.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Are we doing roster mock-ups again? We should just have a dedicated thread for it at this point. I’ll just submit this one. I can go over some of the changes if some people are interested. It’s got one more character, and it’s less vague than before. (And also takes into account the ESRB situation).
View attachment 386448

People were complaining about Dr.Mario yet adovacting for Paper Mario.

Other than that, Byleth, Noah and the tiny portion of 3rd Party. This roster is decent

 

[YeppersPeppers]

So, I've been playing Contra: Operation Galuga, and I can't help but notice how Bill and Lance suddenly have the ability to double jump, dash, and air dash. Almost as if they're trying to make it canon that they their movesets are more compatible with a certain other game.

God, I can just hear the Contra stage-clear Smash arrangement in my head. Such a solid jingle. Make it real, Sakurai!

 

[superprincess]

Saw a couple of fan rosters here earlier so I thought I'd post mine as well ♡

Spoiler: Big image

48 veterans (counting PT and Aegis as one fighter each) + 12 unique newcomers. 5 returning echo fighters + 4 new ones. This is on the upper end of my predictions, basically the most fighters I would expect in a non-port scenario.

Feel free to disagree with any cuts/inclusions, but please provide reasoning.

 

[Noipoi]

Saw a couple of fan rosters here earlier so I thought I'd post mine as well ♡

Spoiler: Big image

48 veterans (counting PT and Aegis as one fighter each) + 12 unique newcomers. 5 returning echo fighters + 4 new ones. This is on the upper end of my predictions, basically the most fighters I would expect in a non-port scenario.View attachment 386465
Feel free to disagree with any cuts/inclusions, but please provide reasoning.

How am I supposed to enjoy this roster without a new Pokemon?

 

[Guynamednelson]

How am I supposed to enjoy this roster without a new Pokemon?

By looking below Kirby

 

[Noipoi]

By looking below Kirby

See, when I said new I meant from a recent generation. Eevee's older than I am. I know most people hate it, but I enjoy seeing what Pokemon they pluck from the most recent region.

I was being facetious anyways