Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[HyperSomari64]

I've always like the idea that Smash should at the least look like this trailer

Remember when people put random music.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Even if it's Nemesis or Wesker?

Especially if it's Nemesis or Wesker.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Especially if it's Nemesis or Wesker.

AND THEN COMES NEMESIS WITH THE STEEL CHAIR

 

[Ivander]

View attachment 386401


AND THEN COMES NEMESIS WITH THE STEEL CHAIR

I thought he was called Mr. Game & Watch, but I mean, he's certainly a nemesis with all that equipment.

 

[SpecterFlower]

View attachment 386387

Wanna bet your account on it?

i just came back from a 2 year absence, pfp thats what im betting, the pfp from announcement till launch.

also I’m going to include monster hunter in this, I think they’re a 2 in 1 deal.

you get the most successful horror franchise and the most successful non Nintendo Japanese franchise.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Considering it's a tourney week? A sucker's bet.

The real bet is whether the amiibo tourney merely altered the order and we're getting the Byleth themed tourney this week or if it flat out took that tourney out of the queue and we're getting the Smash Ball themed tourney this week.

My guess is the former since the amiibo tourney would normally be five tourney weeks ahead in the queue.

It's the Smash Ball tourney.

[Event] Smash Ball Fake Out - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Which begs the question on what they're going to do the week of May 7th, since we already had the amiibo tourney under a new banner. Are they just going to do another amiibo tourney under the old banner like what would normally go there, or will a different tourney go in its place?

i just came back from a 2 year absence, pfp thats what im betting, the pfp from announcement till launch.



also I’m going to include monster hunter in this, I think they’re a 2 in 1 deal.



you get the most successful horror franchise and the most successful non Nintendo Japanese franchise.

....so you're expecting them to reveal both Leon and Monster Hunter in the same reveal. But Leon is absolutely first and before any other new guest.

Yeah no, you need to up the ante if you're so sure of that specific of a scenario.



Also, your statistcs are wrong.

You claim Monster Hunter is the most successful non-Nintendo Japanese franchise.....yet by all accounts, Resident Evil itself is more successful as far as Capcom franchises go as Capcom's top seller.

And even then, we already got the top two most successful non-Nintendo Japanese franchises with RE in third in that category.

 

[DarthEnderX]

How would you guys feel if the next Smash game went with a cel shaded

I would feel very good about that.

 

[Gengar84]

They'd be great! I just don't think moveset feasibility in particular is a worthwhile discussion point because so many characters in the game would be far more generic or not even exist if such a thing mattered in any meaningful way.

Isn’t moveset feasibility the reason Sakurai went with Kazuya over Heihachi? I think it’s also the main reason that Chrom didn’t make the cut for Smash 4 and Villager didn’t make it for Brawl. Captain Falcon, Fox, and now Villager show that it isn’t really a requirement to make it in but I wouldn’t say it doesn’t matter at all. I think an easily translatable moveset that’s unique and interesting is helpful even if it’s not essential.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think it's necessarily feasibility so much as "how can I see them dancing in my head" as a moveset. You don't need much. Villager he simply had ideas for(which is using the items in a unique way). Falcon was pretty easy to work with since he based it upon Japanese Superheroes(I.E. Kamen Rider), and Fox was given some moves based upon his Vehicles, while being a martial artist fox(who clearly knew how to fight, being a Mercenary for Hire), wasn't too much of a stretch.

All it takes is just a tad bit of "something there" to cling onto. Ashley being an obvious Mage? All you need is something to focus on and an archtype is easy to make. Another factor could be how he mentioned "something they and only they can do" could be part of it. A lot of signature abilities are planned beforehand. But if someone doesn't have one? That makes it harder. At least for Pokemon, they generally are given animations or notes beforehand enough since they're designed "to battle".

 

[Gengar84]

I don't think it's necessarily feasibility so much as "how can I see them dancing in my head" as a moveset. You don't need much. Villager he simply had ideas for(which is using the items in a unique way). Falcon was pretty easy to work with since he based it upon Japanese Superheroes(I.E. Kamen Rider), and Fox was given some moves based upon his Vehicles, while being a martial artist fox(who clearly knew how to fight, being a Mercenary for Hire), wasn't too much of a stretch.

All it takes is just a tad bit of "something there" to cling onto. Ashley being an obvious Mage? All you need is something to focus on and an archtype is easy to make. Another factor could be how he mentioned "something they and only they can do" could be part of it. A lot of signature abilities are planned beforehand. But if someone doesn't have one? That makes it harder. At least for Pokemon, they generally are given animations or notes beforehand enough since they're designed "to battle".

Yeah, I think it would be easy enough to make a good moveset for Ashley given her archetype as a witch, which Smash doesn’t really have yet. It does have a few mages but they’re a bit different. I’ve never really played a Wario Ware game so I don’t know specifics but I can think of a few attacks just based on the lyrics of her song.

 

[KillerCage]

Spoiler: Third Attempt at a potential Smash 6 roster

I have boosted the base roster to 55 characters. I moved Meta Knight and Diddy Kong out of DLC back into the base roster while adding back Megaman, Ness, and Robin. Grovyle was added as the 13th base game newcomer (though I consider Meowscarada as welll). As for the DLC, I decided to twink my guidelines to allow one 3rd party character to return as well as another 1st (Ike and Banjo & Kazooie taking Meta Knight and Diddy Kong's places.) I also swapped out Phoenix Wright for Professor Layton and Sol Badguy for Arle Nadja.

Any more critiques for me and my roster?

 

[Will]

How would you guys feel if the next Smash game went with a cel shaded style

Smash fans want a cel-shaded fighter but also want to cut Toon Link at the same time.

 

[fogbadge]

Spoiler: Third Attempt at a potential Smash 6 roster

View attachment 386405

I have boosted the base roster to 55 characters. I moved Meta Knight and Diddy Kong out of DLC back into the base roster while adding back Megaman, Ness, and Robin. Grovyle was added as the 13th base game newcomer (though I consider Meowscarada as welll). As for the DLC, I decided to twink my guidelines to allow one 3rd party character to return as well as another 1st (Ike and Banjo & Kazooie taking Meta Knight and Diddy Kong's places.) I also swapped out Phoenix Wright for Professor Layton and Sol Badguy for Arle Nadja.

Any more critiques for me and my roster?

Your biases are loud and clear

 

[Will]

Spoiler: Third Attempt at a potential Smash 6 roster

View attachment 386405

I have boosted the base roster to 55 characters. I moved Meta Knight and Diddy Kong out of DLC back into the base roster while adding back Megaman, Ness, and Robin. Grovyle was added as the 13th base game newcomer (though I consider Meowscarada as welll). As for the DLC, I decided to twink my guidelines to allow one 3rd party character to return as well as another 1st (Ike and Banjo & Kazooie taking Meta Knight and Diddy Kong's places.) I also swapped out Phoenix Wright for Professor Layton and Sol Badguy for Arle Nadja.

Any more critiques for me and my roster?

You’re paying for my battle pass if you’re really locking away one of my mains for DLC. I don’t even understand why you’d do that.

You get no sympathy from me.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

No final spirit event this week. Yeah, it's going to be next week due to Princess Peach Showtime

 

[Gengar84]

Spoiler: Third Attempt at a potential Smash 6 roster

View attachment 386405

I have boosted the base roster to 55 characters. I moved Meta Knight and Diddy Kong out of DLC back into the base roster while adding back Megaman, Ness, and Robin. Grovyle was added as the 13th base game newcomer (though I consider Meowscarada as welll). As for the DLC, I decided to twink my guidelines to allow one 3rd party character to return as well as another 1st (Ike and Banjo & Kazooie taking Meta Knight and Diddy Kong's places.) I also swapped out Phoenix Wright for Professor Layton and Sol Badguy for Arle Nadja.

Any more critiques for me and my roster?

I can’t speak as to whether the roster is objectively good or bad but I’d personally be disappointed by it. I’m losing my ballot pick in K. Rool and my favorite character in Sephiroth and not getting anything I’m particularly hyped for in return. I much prefer Ultimate’s roster over all as far as my personal tastes go and it would probably be the first time I preferred the previous game’s roster to the newer game’s. Not saying it’s a bad roster, it’s just not for me.

 

[Gorgonzales]

You’re paying for my battle pass if you’re really locking away one of my mains for DLC. I don’t even understand why you’d do that.

People acting like charging for veterans is something Nintendo would never ever do despite this exact thing happening with Roy and Lucas in Sm4sh

Spoiler: Third Attempt at a potential Smash 6 roster

View attachment 386405

I have boosted the base roster to 55 characters. I moved Meta Knight and Diddy Kong out of DLC back into the base roster while adding back Megaman, Ness, and Robin. Grovyle was added as the 13th base game newcomer (though I consider Meowscarada as welll). As for the DLC, I decided to twink my guidelines to allow one 3rd party character to return as well as another 1st (Ike and Banjo & Kazooie taking Meta Knight and Diddy Kong's places.) I also swapped out Phoenix Wright for Professor Layton and Sol Badguy for Arle Nadja.

Any more critiques for me and my roster?

I would be fine with this lineup, not much else to say other than I die a little inside whenever I see someone relate Funky Kong to an echo slot.

Your newcomer choices are solid all-around. Bandana Dee, Mike Jones, Quote/Curly, and a unique Octoling are all good. The others are a lil' too anime for my taste but there's just enough scrimblo to satisfy me, so I don't mind.

Not sure about Tabuu being playable. It'd be hype on reveal, but I'm not really sure the concept is novel enough to warrant an entire fighter since Smash is all about crossovers from different video games. To have one of the fighters be a Smash original character would be, idk, a bit deflating? Dunno how to describe it.

Again, I'd prioritize fan favorite characters like K. Rool over Miis.

Your roster is fine. Not perfect, but I wouldn't be up in arms if we got this or anything since I could see myself enjoying a lot of the new characters.

 

[Geno Boost]

what are the chances that we will ever see a cooking mama content in a smash game? it has always been in every Nintendo console since the DS and its iconic

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Impa is not a viable Sheik replacement. They're as different as night and day. Besides, I don't see why they would go back to the TP Ganondorf design either, when he's become far more viable under his OOT style(which he was only even really viable in Melee and Ultimate to any real degree too), nor is Link going to backtrack. Just keep a child Link, who easily represents the classic style a lot more(Toon or Young). Reducing them doesn't really help. Impa is definitely a good sixth character, though.

I don't see Palutena being gone at all. Nor are we keeping Byleth over Ike. Robin has a fair chance to stay on their own, though. We aren't losing Falco and Wolf realistically. Falco's pretty much a mainstay. And far easier to make than Wolf. As for Tabuu... why not just add Master Hand, who actually was programmed to be playable and works?

Overall, as long as nobody gets reduced to a costume(which is just an insult to veteran players and won't go well), the other cuts are far more acceptable.

Also, I gotta go immediately after this post, so I'll reply way later.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

No final spirit event this week. Yeah, it's going to be next week due to Princess Peach Showtime

We weren't getting Spirits regardless until next week.

It's a tourney week.


How many times do I have to keep pointing these things out to y'all?

 

[KillerCage]

I can’t speak as to whether the roster is objectively good or bad but I’d personally be disappointed by it. I’m losing my ballot pick in K. Rool and my favorite character in Sephiroth and not getting anything I’m particularly hyped for in return. I much prefer Ultimate’s roster over all as far as my personal tastes go and it would probably be the first time I preferred the previous game’s roster to the newer game’s. Not saying it’s a bad roster, it’s just not for me.

Fair enough.
I knew going into this that I was not going to please everyone.
Making a roster that's better than Ultimate is practically impossible as least in my opinion.
Sephiroth was one of the characters I couldn't see coming back largely due to licensing issues.
Cloud had basicially nothing in the base game of Ultimate and he would have priority over Sephiroth.

Your biases are loud and clear

What do you think are my biases?
I might be unaware of some of them.

People acting like charging for veterans is something Nintendo would never ever do despite this exact thing happening with Roy and Lucas in Sm4sh


I would be fine with this lineup, not much else to say other than I die a little inside whenever I see someone relate Funky Kong to an echo slot.

Your newcomer choices are solid all-around. Bandana Dee, Mike Jones, Quote/Curly, and a unique Octoling are all good. The others are a lil' too anime for my taste but there's just enough scrimblo to satisfy me, so I don't mind.

Not sure about Tabuu being playable. It'd be hype on reveal, but I'm not really sure the concept is novel enough to warrant an entire fighter since Smash is all about crossovers from different video games. To have one of the fighters be a Smash original character would be, idk, a bit deflating? Dunno how to describe it.

Again, I'd prioritize fan favorite characters like K. Rool over Miis.

Your roster is fine. Not perfect, but I wouldn't be up in arms if we got this or anything since I could see myself enjoying a lot of the new characters.

Two questions:
How would you feel if K. Rool was a DLC character instead of Ike?
Who would you pick replace Tabuu as a 1st party DLC newcomer?

Impa is not a viable Sheik replacement. They're as different as night and day. Besides, I don't see why they would go back to the TP Ganondorf design either, when he's become far more viable under his OOT style(which he was only even really viable in Melee and Ultimate to any real degree too), nor is Link going to backtrack. Just keep a child Link, who easily represents the classic style a lot more(Toon or Young). Reducing them doesn't really help. Impa is definitely a good sixth character, though.

I don't see Palutena being gone at all. Nor are we keeping Byleth over Ike. Robin has a fair chance to stay on their own, though. We aren't losing Falco and Wolf realistically. Falco's pretty much a mainstay. And far easier to make than Wolf. As for Tabuu... why not just add Master Hand, who actually was programmed to be playable and works?

Overall, as long as nobody gets reduced to a costume(which is just an insult to veteran players and won't go well), the other cuts are far more acceptable.

Also, I gotta go immediately after this post, so I'll reply way later.

Would you mind explaining why Impa doesn't work as Sheik's replacement?
I think you could incorporate plenty of BotW and TotK stuff to make Impa similar yet distinct from Sheik.
I brought back TP Ganondorf because I brought back OoT Link while basing Impa on her BotW version.
Ike may be the most popular FE Lord, but Byleth does hail from the best-selling FE game to date so I had a stronger case for keeping Byleth in the base game over Ike and I hated doing that to Ike.
I never understood why Falco stayed over Wolf and even then I couldn't justify keeping either of them when the Starfox franchise is not in a healthy state.
It was amazing to control Master Hand in World of Light, but I don't think what presented there would gel well in regular Smash gameplay
Tabuu would require some major tinkling, but I can the potential moveset buried within his boss fight.

 

[Will]

People acting like charging for veterans is something Nintendo would never ever do despite this exact thing happening with Roy and Lucas in Sm4sh

It’s not my fault they axed a character I played. Ofc this is gonna happen in the events of cuts like any other fighting game out rn. It’s one of the things I’m not looking forward to if they do axe characters.

But Ike specifically? Is this so people actually like it when paid Fire Emblem DLC is added to the game?

 

[RileyXY1]

Unless the roster is really cut down (like 20-30 characters) I highly doubt that either DKC or Star Fox will get knocked down to a single rep.

 

[Will]

what are the chances that we will ever see a cooking mama content in a smash game? it has always been in every Nintendo console since the DS and its iconic

I don’t see why not. Other than the fake crypto mining story for the last game, I really don’t see a valid argument against her. She’s a casual game icon. I’d main her on the spot tbh.

 

[fogbadge]

What do you think are my biases?
I might be unaware of some of them.

well for a start grovyle and celebii, new Pokemon comes from newest gen
Cutting lucario seems absurd considering how popular he is
Or indeed the Pokemon Trainer
I don’t see why you’d keep pittoo over paultena
I don’t see why you’d cut falco
Mike jones is unknown in Japan
Why would you want to cut game and watch a character who’s been in most of the games
Why get rid of toon link
And why on earth would tabuu be playable

 

[Gorgonzales]

Two questions:
How would you feel if K. Rool was a DLC character instead of Ike?
Who would you pick replace Tabuu as a 1st party DLC newcomer?

K. Rool is one of my favorite Smash characters, ever. If he was DLC, I would be happy that he's coming back and I'd gladly pay for him. I know that the Smash devs try to get as much content into the game as possible before launch, so if K. Rool isn't there then it probably means they didn't have time to include him, hence why he's DLC. Sure, it's not the optimal situation to pay for K. Rool, but stuff happens and I'd be glad he made it back. Fighting games put veterans as DLC all the time.

As for who I'd pick to replace Tabuu, there are a lot of choices but I'd go for a non-realistically-proportioned-human since many of your other newcomers are like that, and I'd want this character to stand out from the crowd. Someone like Magolor, Oatchi, Skull Kid, or Dixie Kong.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gonna play devil's advocate for a bit here:

Impa is not a viable Sheik replacement. They're as different as night and day.

They are different but Sheik hasn't been relevant in a LONG time, while Impa is one of the very few recurring characters that isn't part of the Triforce Trio. If I had to give up Shiek for Impa I'd do it, no questions asked.

We aren't losing Falco and Wolf realistically. Falco's pretty much a mainstay. .

I'd argue nobody is a mainstay, except for a very select few characters that Smash cannot go without like Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu. I could easily see them cutting both Falco and Wolf it it means that little extra development time, since they share similar movesets and Starfox has been kind of floundering these past two decades.

I don't see Palutena being gone at all.

I could very easily see a Smash existing without Palutena. She's a secondary character from a relatively niche and dormant series, and if push comes to shove (like if they had to go for a VERY small roster) I honestly don't even think Pit would be able to make it. That'll probably never happen due to creator bias, but it certainly isn't impossible.

I would want Palutena back if they didn't give her the most bland options for Special moves from the pool she had in Smash 4, but as things are currently looking, I don't think I would even notice she's gone. She's one of those lesser-talked-about cases of squandered potential, she feels awfully generic for what she could do in a game like this.

 

[RileyXY1]

well for a start grovyle and celebii, new Pokemon comes from newest gen
Cutting lucario seems absurd considering how popular he is
Or indeed the Pokemon Trainer
I don’t see why you’d keep pittoo over paultena
I don’t see why you’d cut falco
Mike jones is unknown in Japan
Why would you want to cut game and watch a character who’s been in most of the games
Why get rid of toon link
And why on earth would tabuu be playable

Yeah. Lucario is the most recognizable Pokémon not from the first gen, who has had his own movie centered around him, used by plenty of trainers in the series (like Maylene, Cynthia, Korrina, Gladion, Volo, and even Ash), and was spotlighted in XY as your introduction to the main new mechanic of the game, Mega Evolution. I highly doubt he's going anywhere unless there's a serious cut down of the roster. I also think that Pokémon Trainer will be cut due to how complex he is to make, and I instead think that they'll just have Charizard on his own again like in Smash 4.

I could very easily see a Smash existing without Palutena. She's a secondary character from a relatively niche and dormant series, and if push comes to shove (like if they had to go for a VERY small roster) I honestly don't even think Pit would be able to make it. That'll probably never happen due to creator bias, but it certainly isn't impossible.

I would want Palutena back if they didn't give her the most bland options for Special moves from the pool she had in Smash 4, but as things are currently looking, I don't think I would even notice she's gone. She's one of those lesser-talked-about cases of squandered potential, she feels awfully generic for what she could do in a game like this.

It's unfortunate that Palutena was designed that way, because she was designed with customization in mind, just like the Miis. She was the only character other than the Miis whose custom special moves were all available from the start, and they were all designed to be unique attacks rather than just variations of the default special moves. They made her default special moves so bland on purpose to incentivize you to use the customization feature and switch them out for cooler attacks.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How would you guys feel if somehow Dr. Mario was never cut in a future Smash game?

Like, he become a Smash mainstay? Regardless of whether the roster if Ultimate's size or not.

 

[Will]

Palutena’s alright. Definitely popular, and I don’t think people remember that she was in high-demand between Brawl and 4. I wouldn’t miss her much if she was dropped, but the anime trailer she brought with her was peak.

She was also revealed at E3 2014 alongside the Miis and PAC-MAN. I think the large audience helped people grow on her. I don’t remember a lot of negative responses when I was here, but that was 10 years ago. I was too busy ****posting Dr. Who gifs to give a damn.

 

[Gengar84]

How would you guys feel if somehow Dr. Mario was never cut in a future Smash game?

Like, he become a Smash mainstay? Regardless of whether the roster if Ultimate's size or not.

It depends on the size of the rest of the roster. If we keep most of the characters, I’m fine with Doc staying too. If we go back to a base Smash 4 roster size then I’d really question why he’s still there. Of all the clones and echoes, he’d be my lowest priority just because he’s the same person in a different costume. I think he’s the prime example of someone who I’d be fine getting demoted to a costume because that’s what he is.

 

[Will]

How would you guys feel if somehow Dr. Mario was never cut in a future Smash game?

Like, he become a Smash mainstay? Regardless of whether the roster if Ultimate's size or not.

I’ve been biased for Doc since Melee, so since I’ve been playing him for 15 years, I obviously want to keep him. I think he should’ve 100% been an Echo. I would love if they removed the arbitrary weight and speed difference because it’s one of the worst things about playing him.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

If we have to get rid of one Mario, I'd say good riddance to the regular one and keep Doc, to be honest. He's just more fun to play as and also against imo.

 

[Will]

If we have to get rid of one Mario, I'd say good riddance to the regular one and keep Doc, to be honest. He's just more fun to play as and also against imo.

Mario F-Air spike

Dr. Mario D-Air BOOT STOMP

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

If we have to get rid of one Mario, I'd say good riddance to the regular one and keep Doc, to be honest. He's just more fun to play as and also against imo.

They're gonna hate this, but this is based AF

I’ve been biased for Doc since Melee, so since I’ve been playing him for 15 years, I obviously want to keep him. I think he should’ve 100% been an Echo. I would love if they removed the arbitrary weight and speed difference because it’s one of the worst things about playing him.

As much as I want Doc to be better, he's so much stronger now that he'd prolly be cracked if he was as fast as Mario. He should be slower. Maybe not as slow as he is now granted

 

[osby]

How would you guys feel if somehow Dr. Mario was never cut in a future Smash game?

Like, he become a Smash mainstay? Regardless of whether the roster if Ultimate's size or not.

I like Doc, I'd say keep him in.

I can see a point where him being around might look weird in a smaller roster... but I also don't believe the roster will ever get that small again so no problem.

 

[fogbadge]

How would you guys feel if somehow Dr. Mario was never cut in a future Smash game?

Like, he become a Smash mainstay? Regardless of whether the roster if Ultimate's size or not.

disappointed. for me the novelty of his inclusion only worked in melee. it's tiresome enough when mario kart gives us things like metal mario and pink gold peach and to me doc is no different. the mario series has so many better options than just letting a costume be a character

 

[Guynamednelson]

We've finally gotten to the point where someone unironically argued for cutting Mario.

 

[Will]

As much as I want Doc to be better, he's so much stronger now that he'd prolly be cracked if he was as fast as Mario. He should be slower. Maybe not as slow as he is now granted

I agree to disagree. He’s like Dark Pit to me, just a more offensive variant with a more aggressive gameplan w/more linear, but stronger options & combos. His strongest tech uses just frames (Up-B out of shield or the Tornado recovery). I think upping his speed would only match them on a tier list and make him more popular in the casual audience.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We've finally gotten to the point where someone unironically argued for cutting Mario.

I'm pretty sure it was ironic.

 

[Will]

We've finally gotten to the point where someone unironically argued for cutting Mario.

Nah you’re just bad at seeing jokes