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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NonSpecificGuy
- Start date
I was actually ok until the amazing outpouring from artists and collaborators led me to this
I am in legitimate mourning that was unexpected... Peace to you and yours.
I am in legitimate mourning that was unexpected... Peace to you and yours.
7NATOR
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2016
- Messages
- 4,085
Mr. Toriyama dying sucks to say the least. I think mostly it's just Very, very weird that he's not alive anymore, and not in a Good way. It's going to take getting used to. I also thought he was older, but being only 68 is kind of rough, even if he had such a Great influence on Entertainment media in his lifetime. Not just Great, but he helped Break the Limit I think in how Eastern Media can be consumed, on the Animated side of things, because I think without him the entertainment world would be very different, and nothing can take that away from him. I just think he should have had more time living
I will say in relating to Smash, While we never did get Goku or anything Dragon Ball related, Since Toriyama did design for Dragon Quest, He did get to see his Influence come to Smash in the Form of Hero in his lifetime, so I think Dragon Quest's Inclusion becomes cooler retroactively for that
I also hope Sakurai gets to live for a Long time. I think the act of Living is cool, so I hope Sakurai keeps doing that for as long as he can, Whether's he's creating stuff or not
I think The Next Smash game will see much more Women being added in, like Double Digit numbers in My opinion, and I'm ready for it.
on the Real life side of things, I think we could see Yoko Shimomura doing some more cool Compositions, maybe she should do more Beach/Water songs in the game because those seem to be some of her favorites
However If we are talking Smash, we also got to Remember that Sakurai's wife, Michiko, has been designing the menu's of all the Smash games. UI is a very important part of a Game's Readability and communication, so her contribution to the series is not to be understated
Yeah. I think $70 for their System Sellers in 3D Mario, Smash, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, etc seems about right, especially since if the Next Switch is Backwards compatible, I guess it'll leave the Older Switch games as Cheaper options to get if you want. Though I could see the argument that they would be competing against each other, if the $70 games are Super High Quality, I think it'll work itself out
Capybara Gaming
Just Vibing
Or Ikumi Nakamura, the adorkable head of Unseen studio who worked on Bayonetta, Ghostwire Tokyo, and Okami and who's spearheading Kemuri?
Louie G.
Smash Hero
Arle Nadja (Puyo Puyo)
Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
Marina Liteyears (Mischief Makers)
Lip (Panel de Pon)
Off the Hook (Pearl & Marina) (Splatoon)
Yuka / Tap Girl (Rhythm Heaven)
Captain Syrup (Wario Land)
Susie (Kirby)
- Some of my favorite female characters to pick up every now and again. I definitely play Isabelle the most, while the others are kinda just done on a whim (I typically use a Mii of the Smash 4 Gunner... or Sans). I wish I was better with them. Recently I've been trying to improve with Ice Climbers a bit too, and I tend to use Nana as the lead.What are the odds for her being an alternate skin or echo fighter for Oatchi? I haven't played Pikmin 4 yet, so I'm curious how feasible it would be. I always assumed they had pretty much the same basic abilities.
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CommanderZaktan
Smash Ace
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Newcomers:
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2B
Favorite Ultimate Characters:
Peach
Zelda
Samus
Inkling
Isabelle
Pyra/Mythra
Palutena
Robin
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Min Min
Speed Weed
Smash Master
When talking about important women in games, one of the first people that come to mind for me is Rieko Kodama. One of the most important developers in SEGA's history - she helped define the image of their home output with her work on the likes of Sonic, Alex Kidd, but most of all Phantasy Star and Skies of Arcadia. She was one of the most highly-respected people at the company for a long time, and continued to have a hand in both new IP such as 7th Dragon and reissue intitiatives such as SEGA AGES Switch until she passed in 2022. I miss her dearly.
I also want to take this opportunity to spotlight a bit of an unsung figure who isn't that pivotal in the grand scheme of things but whose work I greatly enjoy. Yoko Shimomura's the big "retro Capcom composer who went on to have great success composing for other games later on" success story, but did you know there was another woman who followed a very similar career trajectory? I'm talking about Ms. Tamayo Kawamoto, one of the main sound designers at Capcom during the 80s - she scored several of their earliest arcade titles, but in the 90s she took a completely different direction - she moved to Taito, where as a member of their in-house sound team ZUNTATA, she scored the Ray'z trilogy of shooters (Rayforce/Raystorm/Raycrisis), and the soundtracks for these games went on to become BIG fan favorites and some of the most acclaimed soundtracks in the company's history, and she herself became one of the collective's most beloved members. She is a very cool lady - here, listen to this
I also want to take this opportunity to spotlight a bit of an unsung figure who isn't that pivotal in the grand scheme of things but whose work I greatly enjoy. Yoko Shimomura's the big "retro Capcom composer who went on to have great success composing for other games later on" success story, but did you know there was another woman who followed a very similar career trajectory? I'm talking about Ms. Tamayo Kawamoto, one of the main sound designers at Capcom during the 80s - she scored several of their earliest arcade titles, but in the 90s she took a completely different direction - she moved to Taito, where as a member of their in-house sound team ZUNTATA, she scored the Ray'z trilogy of shooters (Rayforce/Raystorm/Raycrisis), and the soundtracks for these games went on to become BIG fan favorites and some of the most acclaimed soundtracks in the company's history, and she herself became one of the collective's most beloved members. She is a very cool lady - here, listen to this
Gorgonzales
Smash Ace
They do share basically the same abilities, but Moss is twice as big as Oatchi and also has slightly different proportions (Oatchi is more squashed down while Moss has a more vertical build). Alternate skins are a no-go, but for a semiclone, maybe? If Oatchi gets in I could definitely see a green palette swap for him that references Moss, but isn't actually her. Kind of like how Fox has a Wolf palette swap.
I want Moss in because I like her more. They'll probably go with Oatchi since he's all over Pikmin 4's marketing but Moss will always be the winner in my heart.
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LiveStudioAudience
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2019
- Messages
- 4,034
Japan's filled with all sorts of under the radar female composers who've done some flat-out fantastic work. Tomoko Sumiyama only did a few games, but the OST to Bucky O'Hare is still one of the greatest in 8 bit history and demonstrates what skilled people could do with that hardware:
Soyo Oka's kept semi active and is another figure who did just outstanding things with older consoles. Her stuff with Super Mario Kart and arrangements with the Mario All Stars OST are impressive enough, but the SNES Sim City might very well be her masterwork:
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Wonder Smash
Smash Lord
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- 1,936
Being the SEGA fan you are, I knew you'd probably mention Rieko Kodama.
Also, yeah, Yoko Shimomura is definitely worth bringing up, especially since she did arrangements many of the tracks in the Smash Bros. series.
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Scrimblo Bimblo
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2023
- Messages
- 324
Really sad about Toriyama's passing.
Like many, I've grown up with Dragonball. Would like to say more, his art is untouchable and his stories have that simple, timeless feeling but I don't know how to put that into words better than this...
The worst thing is that he was still relatively young, it's such a shame :'(
He'll be missed.
Like many, I've grown up with Dragonball. Would like to say more, his art is untouchable and his stories have that simple, timeless feeling but I don't know how to put that into words better than this...
The worst thing is that he was still relatively young, it's such a shame :'(
He'll be missed.
Pupp135
Smash Lord
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Newcomers:
1. Amy Rose
2. Celica (Fire Emblem Echoes)
3. Yuna
4. Toadette
5. Arle
6. Jinx
7. Midna
8. Dixie Kong
9. Chun-Li
10. Sami
Veterans:
1. Icies
2. Sheik
3. Aegis
4. Zero Suit Samus
5. Zelda
6. Peach
7. Rosalina & Luma
8. Samus
9. Inkling
10. Isabelle
cashregister9
Smash Hero
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1. Tiki (Fire Emblem)
2. Estelle (Trails)
3. Saber (Fate)
4. Sakura (Sakura Wars)
5. Hatsune Miku
6. Mio (Xenoblade)
7. Ogerpon (Pokemon)
8. Shantae
9. Pauline (Mario)
10. Ashley (Wario)
1. Palutena
2. Isabelle
3. Min Min
4. Lucina
5. Pyra/Mythra
6. Bayonetta
7. Corrin
8. Daisy
9. Alex
10. Inkling
BritishGuy54
Smash Journeyman
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Sure, why not.
1. Pneuma (Xenoblade)
2. Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
3. Impa (Legend of Zelda)
4. Mio (Xenoblade)
5. Tifa (Final Fantasy)
1. Pyra/Mythra
2. Daisy
3. Peach
4. Lucina
5. Rosalina
superprincess
Smash Journeyman
10 most wanted female newcomers (no particular order)
- Pauline
- Birdo
- Toadette/Peachette
- Captain Syrup
- Impa (Sheik ε)
- Urbosa
- Lyn
- Chun-Li
- Jeanne (Bayonetta ε)
- Lara Croft
10 most played women in Ultimate (most to least)
- Daisy
- Peach
- Bayonetta
- Zelda
- Palutena
- Rosalina & Luma
- Isabelle
- Byleth
- ZSS
- Pyra/Mythra
LiveStudioAudience
Smash Master
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Newcomers
1. Dixie Kong
2. Chun Li
3. Marina Liteyears
4. Jill Valentine (Claire Redfield Echo)
5. Blaze the Cat
6. Amaterasu
7. Impa
8. Hat Kid
9. Terra Branford
10. Joanna Dark
Speed Weed
Smash Master
Actually screw it, I'm gonna talk about some other cool SEGA ladies because Kodama deserves all the credit she gets, but there's some other pretty important women in the company's history.
There's several composers I could bring up, but I've decided to spotlight Tomoko Sasaki here. She was one of the most prominent SEGA composers in the 90s, working with a lot of future Sonic Team staff on games like Ristar, then actually joining Sonic Team to work on the soundtrack to what may be the most famous thing she's worked on - NiGHTS! She wasn't the sole composer, but she worked on a lot of the prominent tracks, including being the one who wrote the game's main theme, Dreams Dreams. She also did work for games like Burning Rangers and Space Channel 5 (even singing one of the songs in the former!), but what I really want to talk about is a part of her career that isn't as well-known in the English-speaking community. Did you know that in addition to doing sound design, she actually created her own SEGA game once? She was responsible for the conceptualization of Roommania #203, a quirky Japan-only Dreamcast life sim where you watch over and tinker with a man's daily routine in an attempt to make him live a more fulfilling life. She made the game being inspired by Internet webcams, and it's a super neat title that actually did get a sequel, but what's REALLY interesting about it is the musical factor. You see, Sasaki was also a key member of SEGA's own in-house record label, Wave Master, and she worked with other members on a project tied to the label - a fake virtual singer named Serani Poji. She composed the songs, and the first album was featured in Roommania itself, with Serani Poji being an actual singer within the game's universe. Since then, Roommania and Serani Poji have come to be very closely tied, with the latter being a very iconic part of the former - the follow-up album was featured in the game's sequel as well, but Serani Poji continued to have a life beyond the series, even with Sasaki leaving SEGA. As for Roommania, it's gone on to be something of a cult SEGA title in Japan, and SEGA references it a bunch. So yeah! Tomoko Sasaki! Cool lady.
After that, I'd like to spotlight a criminally understated figure - Jina Ishiwatari Tsukahara worked as a designer at SEGA in the 90s, and when she was still relatively young, got a spot working on a little game called Sonic the Hedgehog. She was appointed as a level designer, and, among other things, she was the person who designed the graphics for Green Hill Zone - she spent a whole year working on it, from 6am to midnight. And yet.....no one talks about her, not even Sonic fans from my experience. She's responsible for the graphics on one of the most iconic levels in video game history and has gotten very little credit for that.
Lastly, we've done composers and designers, but how about a woman who's actually been front-and-center, acting as a studio head? I'm talking about Mie Kumagai, a woman who once acted as the head of the oft-overlooked third SEGA arcade division AM3. She played a very important role in distinguishing the studio's output during the 90s and slightly beyond, putting a focus on casual experiences that could be enjoyed by people of all demographics, with a particular focus on appealing to women as well - she once went on record stating that "the future of arcades cannot be boys-only". She worked as a producer and sometimes even director on stuff like Rail Chase 2, Lost World: Jurassic Park and Magical Truck Adventure - AKA, a lot of games that focus on immersive experiences and body movement with specialty cabs (something that appealed to casual arcadegoers) and could very well be played by, say, a couple. This was the niche she wanted to carve out, and her biggest contribution came afterwards, when she became head of the very successful Virtua Tennis series, acting as producer on most of the games before she left. The other two women I mentioned were very important but were kind of working on the sidelines (not that that diminishes their significance At All, mind you), but as mentioned, Kumagai was a legitimate major player - a studio head and prominent figure within the company who had great success with the particular direction she took with her division. She really ought to get more credit IMO, cause in my opinion she's probably second only to Kodama in terms of highly significant women in the history of SEGA.
Anyway that's it, I'll shut my trap now. Happy Women's Day!
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Louie G.
Smash Hero
To tie the previous two conversations together a bit, I hope if Hero returns that they may consider putting in the extra work to add female variants like the Fire Emblem avatars. Might be a bit of a stretch, but DQ4's heroine Sofia is one of my favorite Toriyama designs in general. Love Solo too, he's my favorite of the four we've got and my go-to pick, but I just love her bushy hair. Dunno how feasible it is, but F!Byleth is pretty distinct from her counterpart.
Toriyama's passing has me reflecting on Hero's addition quite a bit. Given Sakurai's posts grieving this loss it's safe to assume working with Toriyama's characters meant a great deal to everyone involved. I'm not sure what the future of Square Enix's Smash collaborations may look like but I hope it involves Dragon Quest, if not for its great legacy then certainly for the wide influence Toriyama's creative voice has had on many of Smash's most beloved characters spanning every genre. Mario, Sonic, Cloud... Keeping that history in mind makes Hero's presence feel all the more valuable, from Dragon Quest and beyond.
Toriyama's passing has me reflecting on Hero's addition quite a bit. Given Sakurai's posts grieving this loss it's safe to assume working with Toriyama's characters meant a great deal to everyone involved. I'm not sure what the future of Square Enix's Smash collaborations may look like but I hope it involves Dragon Quest, if not for its great legacy then certainly for the wide influence Toriyama's creative voice has had on many of Smash's most beloved characters spanning every genre. Mario, Sonic, Cloud... Keeping that history in mind makes Hero's presence feel all the more valuable, from Dragon Quest and beyond.
superprincess
Smash Journeyman
I randomly came across some pre-Ultimate speculation videos and the majority of people were going on about how Mario and Link would get revamped to be based on Odyssey and Breath of the Wild, alongside the constant requests for more accurate/referential Ganondorf and Wario movesets. I've also seen a few pre-Smash 4 veteran change requests; as it turns out, the Ganondorf and Wario complaints trace back to very, very long ago. The Mario and Link "recency bias" recommendations also seemed recurring. But I have to say, after Ultimate kept all veterans intact with minor (but sometimes impactful) touchups... I don't see any meaningful revamps happening, ever. The further along we get into the series, with veterans staying the same, the less likely moveset overhauls seem. It's a pity, but I just have a hunch that we'll never see anything major, aside from the rotating Zelda characters designs.
Gorgonzales
Smash Ace
I don't think the game where the devs' primary focus was to bring every single character (and most stages) back is a good guage of whether moveset revamps are likely to happen or not
superprincess
Smash Journeyman
But even when that wasn't the focus, there really weren't any major character reworks. Pit in Smash 4 is the only major example. I'll also note that Ultimate, despite the huge undertaking of everyone returning, did go back and tweak a lot of move properties and animations, but didn't outright change anything. It's like the characters not evolving is a conscious choice, rather than a byproduct of time constraints.
I guess this circles back to the cuts talk... but whether or not the next game has cuts, there's gonna be a lot of fighters to bring back. At least as many as Smash 4 had to worry about... which is also a number (40ish) that doesn't really lend itself to many reworks, as we've seen before.
I guess it depends on whether they decide it's worth it but again, characters staying the exact same seems to be purposeful.
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They haven't done major moveset revamps to the point they "play nothing alike" the old version in every single sequel.
It was never going to happen. At least under Sakurai's helm. While we've gotten major changes, the philosophy overall was kept the same. The only real notable change was separating some Transformation characters, that could even be treated as a "philosophy change". Otherwise, the core gameplay is still unhanged, just updated. If you look at even those, they still play the same game. That's not to say they don't have some changes. Fox going into Melee had a pretty different core, as he no longer had power, but a much bigger emphasis on speed and racking up damage.
Pit did get some decent changes, and Mario losing his Tornado(as a Special. His Down Air is nowhere near as versatile) forced players to try different routes.
However, even with these, bar, as I said, Transformations, you still keep the core. Fox is still clearly a space animal with lasers and technology and martial arts. This didn't change. Mario always had a bit of combo to him and that only increased later. Dr. Mario in comparison was meant to be a harder but slower take on Mario, and he properly became that since 4. Etc.
You can definitely argue some of those could count as major revamps, but the core character either way still keeps that intact, though it is pretty loose. Bowser is no longer an animal to the same degree, but is still clearly a ferocious creature in 4 and Ultimate, just blatantly having a different set of moves. Zelda is still a hard hitting slow character when split. Charizard changed a few moves, but played fairly similarly. Etc.
That said, I think the idea of something like an EX Version(so more of a clone, not an Echo) could be an interesting way to give some movesets, but it's a ton of work. Regardless of whether we have most characters return, or an even smaller roster(like more around 60) etc. A majority of Clones were last minute(as well as some Model Swaps, like Ness), but the Echoes were all decided upon early. So even that might not be something we could suddenly have. Albeit, with everyone there, last minute additions do not work at all as a design. The entire base roster was decided in 2015, after all.
It was never going to happen. At least under Sakurai's helm. While we've gotten major changes, the philosophy overall was kept the same. The only real notable change was separating some Transformation characters, that could even be treated as a "philosophy change". Otherwise, the core gameplay is still unhanged, just updated. If you look at even those, they still play the same game. That's not to say they don't have some changes. Fox going into Melee had a pretty different core, as he no longer had power, but a much bigger emphasis on speed and racking up damage.
Pit did get some decent changes, and Mario losing his Tornado(as a Special. His Down Air is nowhere near as versatile) forced players to try different routes.
However, even with these, bar, as I said, Transformations, you still keep the core. Fox is still clearly a space animal with lasers and technology and martial arts. This didn't change. Mario always had a bit of combo to him and that only increased later. Dr. Mario in comparison was meant to be a harder but slower take on Mario, and he properly became that since 4. Etc.
You can definitely argue some of those could count as major revamps, but the core character either way still keeps that intact, though it is pretty loose. Bowser is no longer an animal to the same degree, but is still clearly a ferocious creature in 4 and Ultimate, just blatantly having a different set of moves. Zelda is still a hard hitting slow character when split. Charizard changed a few moves, but played fairly similarly. Etc.
That said, I think the idea of something like an EX Version(so more of a clone, not an Echo) could be an interesting way to give some movesets, but it's a ton of work. Regardless of whether we have most characters return, or an even smaller roster(like more around 60) etc. A majority of Clones were last minute(as well as some Model Swaps, like Ness), but the Echoes were all decided upon early. So even that might not be something we could suddenly have. Albeit, with everyone there, last minute additions do not work at all as a design. The entire base roster was decided in 2015, after all.
Yesterday was international women's Day so I want to share a list of Manly Men characters I want to see in Smash BROS
Guile (Street Fighter)
Hector (Fire Emblem)
Rodin (Bayonetta)
Jimmy T (Wario Ware)
King Bob-omb (Super Mario)
Funky Kong (Donkey Kong)
Chris Redfield (Resident Evil)
Barret (Final Fantasy)
Pro Wrestler (Rhythm Heaven)
Dragaux (Ring Fit Adventure)
Malos (Xenoblade)
Rex (Xenoblade 3, Future redeemed)
Daruk (Zelda)
Leongar (Kirby)
Machamp (Pokemon
Teddy (Earthbound)
Black Shadow (F-Zero)
Doom Guy (Animal Crossing)
Magnus (Kid Icarus)
Knuckles (Sonic)
Mr. Sandman (Punch out)
Max Brass (ARMS)
Heihachi (Tekken)
Woman day is over!! It's men all year round now!!! Go Metal!!! Let's Lift Bro!!! Show that Flex!!! Eat Beef!!!
In case it wasn't obvious, I'm joking.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2014
- Messages
- 7,733
Always gives me feels.
Louie G.
Smash Hero
If I may play devil's (angel's?) advocate here, I feel like next game is the most incentive there has been for a Ganondorf rework in over 15 years. I'm not saying it will absolutely happen, but there's more reason for it to happen now than there was for the last few games.
Like, from Melee -> Brawl there was Twilight Princess. And Ganondorf actually did see a fair bit of change, at least some greater variation in how certain moves worked including essentially a brand new Side B among a handful of normals. In a game that gave Falco a major glow-up, Ganondorf was pretty close behind. It may not be as dramatic as people wanted, but he had something going for him.
Ganondorf has been on ice from that point forward. He stuck to Twilight Princess in Smash 4, just as the other Zelda characters did, and he wasn't in Skyward Sword regardless. And then in Ultimate, BOTW didn't provide much for Dorf either and the focus on retooling veterans was minimal. So we just went back to OOT instead, which is where we started. TOTK is Ganondorf's biggest role in a long time, one that actually offers quite a lot of inspiration for a reimagining. The reason Pit, for example, saw such a big overhaul does boil down to a really significant new direction in character and within his series. And Bowser, the other Smash 4 vet with pretty significant moveset adjustments, was spiced up to be more accurate and in-line with his recent portrayals too. If next game is condensing its roster a bit, and/or wants to deviate a little further than Ultimate to better stand on its own, maybe that would be a good time to finally make it happen. It's been a bit since there's been a really strong new reason to reassess.
Again, there's a good chance it won't. I wouldn't be surprised, but it would probably be the most dire circumstance yet with such an obvious direction to take after a massively successful entry in the series and his first major, mainline role since Twilight Princess. Unfortunately for Zelda fans, I think the best chance Ganondorf has at a rework comes at the expense of another Zelda newcomer... which is to say, if old Ganondorf is "cut" and nu-Ganondorf is effectively treated as a brand new character. In the event that we're already going to be cutting like 20+ characters surely then you could justify betraying those old fans that apparently love Falcondorf so much too. It would just be a heavy undertaking equivalent to a new character, so the unfortunate toll Zelda would likely have to pay is getting a "newcomer" who is actually an oldcomer.
As for other characters, I don't think many of them require it. Wario, for example, really is not in need of a drastic rework. He comes down to more of a disagreement in representation rather than a completely inaccurate one. It's weird, but it's true to the vision behind Wario in Smash. It's intentional, most characters in Smash are still in line with a deliberate design pitch. Ganondorf is a last minute addition, a product of time crunch that never really got to escape from that fate - he's hardly a fully realized vision. So I do think if they'd be willing to be flexible with anybody, it would be him. I agree with the sentiment on principle that we are unlikely to see that many drastic changes, anyone expecting a Wario retool now is just setting themselves up to be upset again, but Ganondorf... at least he got something new and exciting that mayyyy provoke a change. Who knows.
Like, from Melee -> Brawl there was Twilight Princess. And Ganondorf actually did see a fair bit of change, at least some greater variation in how certain moves worked including essentially a brand new Side B among a handful of normals. In a game that gave Falco a major glow-up, Ganondorf was pretty close behind. It may not be as dramatic as people wanted, but he had something going for him.
Ganondorf has been on ice from that point forward. He stuck to Twilight Princess in Smash 4, just as the other Zelda characters did, and he wasn't in Skyward Sword regardless. And then in Ultimate, BOTW didn't provide much for Dorf either and the focus on retooling veterans was minimal. So we just went back to OOT instead, which is where we started. TOTK is Ganondorf's biggest role in a long time, one that actually offers quite a lot of inspiration for a reimagining. The reason Pit, for example, saw such a big overhaul does boil down to a really significant new direction in character and within his series. And Bowser, the other Smash 4 vet with pretty significant moveset adjustments, was spiced up to be more accurate and in-line with his recent portrayals too. If next game is condensing its roster a bit, and/or wants to deviate a little further than Ultimate to better stand on its own, maybe that would be a good time to finally make it happen. It's been a bit since there's been a really strong new reason to reassess.
Again, there's a good chance it won't. I wouldn't be surprised, but it would probably be the most dire circumstance yet with such an obvious direction to take after a massively successful entry in the series and his first major, mainline role since Twilight Princess. Unfortunately for Zelda fans, I think the best chance Ganondorf has at a rework comes at the expense of another Zelda newcomer... which is to say, if old Ganondorf is "cut" and nu-Ganondorf is effectively treated as a brand new character. In the event that we're already going to be cutting like 20+ characters surely then you could justify betraying those old fans that apparently love Falcondorf so much too. It would just be a heavy undertaking equivalent to a new character, so the unfortunate toll Zelda would likely have to pay is getting a "newcomer" who is actually an oldcomer.
As for other characters, I don't think many of them require it. Wario, for example, really is not in need of a drastic rework. He comes down to more of a disagreement in representation rather than a completely inaccurate one. It's weird, but it's true to the vision behind Wario in Smash. It's intentional, most characters in Smash are still in line with a deliberate design pitch. Ganondorf is a last minute addition, a product of time crunch that never really got to escape from that fate - he's hardly a fully realized vision. So I do think if they'd be willing to be flexible with anybody, it would be him. I agree with the sentiment on principle that we are unlikely to see that many drastic changes, anyone expecting a Wario retool now is just setting themselves up to be upset again, but Ganondorf... at least he got something new and exciting that mayyyy provoke a change. Who knows.
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CapitaineCrash
Smash Champion
Might be a hot take, but honestly if for some reason they can only have one Square franchise in the next Smash, I really hope that Hero would have priority over Cloud. DQ is a very special franchise to have in Smash, and having it in Smash feels like meeting an old friend again. I also think that DQ is more easy to represent in Smash because of how every game share a similar style, similar music, same monsters design etc., while FF was always about reinventing itself, which is why the representation actually focus on FF7 only. I feel that if DQ was back in a base game scenario, it would be much easier to represent the franchise as a whole: you could have the Slime as an assist trophy, add a few more music from the whole franchise and maybe add a new stages based on Alefgard from DQ 1-3 and you'd have a pretty great representation. As a bonus, you could maybe even add Female DQ4 hero, DQ6 hero, DQ1 hero and maybe DQ 12 hero if timing and design is right as new skin.
Laniv
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 2,013
1. Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
2. Toadette (Super Mario) (as either an alt or an echo)
3. Pauline (Super Mario)
4. Impa (Legend of Zelda) (preferably Skyward Sword design)
5. Mona (WarioWare)
6. Elma (Xenoblade)
7. Tiki (Fire Emblem) (preferably adult Tiki)
8. Yuka (Rhythm Heaven)
9. Lip (Panel de Pon)
10. Stylist (Style Savvy)
And my most played characters are:
Villager
Daisy
Wii Fit Trainer
Isabelle
Inkling
Peach
Samus
Lucina
Mii Brawler
Min Min
Mii Swordfighter
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
Hard agree... for Femdrick and Sofia costumes, I wonder if they would change the Final Smash from them
To this...
Or maybe a mix for all costumes...
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Here's my potentially even hotter take. I kinda don't want a Ganondorf rework.
I'm pretty happy with how far he's come now, and think he's really fun to play as Ultimate, Doriah is one of the most satisfying attacks in the game. And Ocarina is my favourite design for Ganondorf.
I ain't opposed to some changes, an energy ball would be nice, but I don't want a Moveset overhaul anymore.
cashregister9
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2020
- Messages
- 8,702
Honestly a big part of me wants Heroine as an echo for Hero with the alts being
Anlucia
Sofia
F!Erdrick
F!Nine
and then you could even change around the spells and stuff for the moveset.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2014
- Messages
- 7,733
To be fair, the 2nd image isn't just female Heroes. It's a bunch of female party members.
Kirbeh
Smash Champion
To touch on character overhauls, while I don't think we'll actually get anything major I could still see it as something that happens down the line. Ultimate was the big culmination of the whole series up til now, so while I do think it's more likely that they recycle and continue to build off that, I don't think it'd be that out of place if they take this opportunity to do some changing and reinventing. I don't think it is, but Ultimate feels like a fitting end for an era.
Bear in mind I'm not talking about some really crazy shift like switching genres or changing every mechanic. But I still think a scaled back scope with more new than old is still something to consider. Newcomers of course, but also, new versions of veterans, news stages, maybe a new mechanic to spice things up, etc.
And no I don't want a "Thanos snapped" roster, but if Ultimate (or next game) serves as our Marvel 2, more people should be ready for a Marvel 3 situation to come after.
Bear in mind I'm not talking about some really crazy shift like switching genres or changing every mechanic. But I still think a scaled back scope with more new than old is still something to consider. Newcomers of course, but also, new versions of veterans, news stages, maybe a new mechanic to spice things up, etc.
And no I don't want a "Thanos snapped" roster, but if Ultimate (or next game) serves as our Marvel 2, more people should be ready for a Marvel 3 situation to come after.
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2018
- Messages
- 10,618
Im starting to think that fourth spirit event aint coming lol
cashregister9
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2020
- Messages
- 8,702
The fourth Spirit Event was a ploy so they can say that Smash Ultimate has not ended.
Noipoi
Howdy!
The fourth spirit event is the friends we made along the way
Scrimblo Bimblo
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2023
- Messages
- 324
This.
Later Ganondorfs wish they were half as cool as OoT Ganondorf and TotK's is no exception. Plus, despite being a derivative, Smash Ganondorf is actually one of the most extreme characters in the game and a moveset people clearly love.
i think they should just work the float into his current up B (which is something he kinda needs anyways, his recovery doesn't need to be as poor as it is now) and call it a day.
Maybe add the energy ball to Warlock Punch somehow, too, but Ganondorf having a projectile sounds like a nightmare.
Anyways at that point you'd only have to change up a couple of aerials and he wouldn't really have much in common with Falcon anymore.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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- Nov 10, 2014
- Messages
- 7,733
Which is why the the moveset should be preserved in Black Shadow.
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chinkuru
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 7, 2023
- Messages
- 30
1 Chun Li
2 Aeris
3 Tifa
4 Lara Croft
5 Joanna Dark
6 Dixie Kong
7 Chell
8 The Boss
9 Ayumi
10 Ring Fit Trainee
Scrimblo Bimblo
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2023
- Messages
- 324
Eh, Black Shadow doesn't have a sword and he's not slow. And moves like side B and ftilt are things Ganondorf actually did, it wouldn't make sense to take them away from him and give them to an unrelated character.