Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

This is unfortunately who I think is getting cut (if they're not going the Ultimate Deluxe route):

Corrin: They're the most expendable FE character out of the set. Fates isn't exactly a popular entry in the series, and the rest either have Smash legacy on their side (Roy), or have fame in their home games (Marth, Robin, Chrom, Lucina, Byleth). So Corrin will be the one to go.
All Square Enix reps: The only way I can see these characters back in the base roster is if they go the Ultimate Deluxe route. If they don't, they'll probably be all cut and made DLC again, so we'll lose Cloud, Hero, Sephiroth, and Sora.
Steve: Despite Minecraft's massive fame, Steve was very difficult to implement in the game, and required the full rework of all 100+ stages in the game so that his gimmick could function properly. And I don't know if Sakurai would want to go through that again, so Steve will get the axe.
Pokémon Trainer: Here's another character that was very difficult to include. This is essentially three fully unique characters in one, and thus they have three times the workload of your average fighter. I think that without Everyone is Here they'll probably be cut and Charizard will be on his own again like in Smash 4.
Piranha Plant: This was clearly a joke. He clearly made this character for laughs, and they're the most expendable of the Mario cast.
Ike: Looks like I'm cutting FE down by two fighters, and I was torn between cutting either Roy or Ike, but due to Roy's greater legacy in Smash I decided to give the spot to him and cut Ike.

While i agree that it might be unlikely for the three Final fantasy characters to come back i dont think Hero would be much of an issue.

There arent as many copyright issues with him compared to the others.

While we're also on the topic of cuts, who's one character you absolutely rallying behind full force for next Smash? I feel this could be another partial interesting or fun topic.

What's one character who has your full 100% support for Smash 6?

Kiryu-chan

 

[RileyXY1]

While i agree that it might be unlikely for the three Final fantasy characters to come back i dont think Hero would be much of an issue.

There arent as many copyright issues with him compared to the others.


Kiryu-chan

They're simply the fact that he is a Square Enix character, and they have a fixation on their characters always being DLC, so I think that Hero will have the same fate as Cloud, Sephiroth, and Sora and be cut if they're not doing Everyone is Here again.

 

[Arcanir]

I think Ken has a fair shot of returning too, although I'm less certain under the guise that I expect another Street Fighter character. If Chun-Li gets added, they might just let her have a turn and keep Ken lower priority. Or maybe it would be cool to have all three, I dunno. But ignoring that, Ken is one of the more fleshed out echo fighters and a popular character in his own right, so he's got a solid case for himself at least.

I feel if they do decide on bringing back SF and Ken, he'll probably return. I imagine with Third Party Echoes they still have to go through some of the same hoops they would a non-clone Third Party character, and with that amount of work already put in I imagine they'd be higher priority to get done over their counterparts like Dark Samus. So if they do want Ken back, I feel he'll be back, his case will be decided more by how they handle negotiation with those rights and if he gets sidelined during the process for someone or something else.

 

[fogbadge]

Dark Pit is expendable

too bad he’s a sakurai character and we’re stuck with him

 

[Gorgonzales]

Take it from someone who mains the character, Gordos are not a detriment. Sure, I think they might benefit from a little more durability so you're not just getting it sent back from any wimpy little jab. But as is, they are a fundamental part of his entire gameplan and a big reason why myself and I presume many others enjoy playing him so much. It's a projectile with interesting flexibility... you can ledge trap, you can stick it to the stage. You can inhale it and spit it back out. You can be unpredictable with three different angles, you can pressure opponents by throwing one out and running in for the grab. It moves slow, so if you're lucky you can even throw an opponent into it while it's active. Most other moves in the game wish they had this amount of sheer versatility! You almost take for granted how much fun it is until you map it out like this. This move absolutely needs to stay, and I wouldn't complain (at all) if it was buffed but I would be devastated to lose it. It's everything to Dedede.

Down B... I dunno, I would miss it less, but Jet Hammer is obviously mirroring Hammer Flip and that's pretty important to have around. Nor is it something I would be willing to sacrifice Dedede's iconic forward smash for. It's even quite good at catching opponents on the edge, it's not a completely useless move and sometimes is even a more optimal punish than the aforementioned f-smash. I'd sooner replace it on Kirby than Dedede, although I'd like to hear what alternative ideas you have in mind. Physics, sound design, I guess I'm open to it although I don't want him to feel entirely different to control. I love his 64 design but I can give or take it in Smash, personally.

I'd still greatly prefer either of the characters I mentioned to be the basis for a puzzle game inspired moveset in Smash, but I respect the creativity.

Alright, you've managed to sell me on Gordos staying. They need more durability is all. I still think Dedede could do more with Down B but I digress.

I had Tetris as the retro rep but come to think of it Lip could work too. I wouldn't mind seeing her or Arle over Tetris.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

They're simply the fact that he is a Square Enix character, and they have a fixation on their characters always being DLC, so I think that Hero will have the same fate as Cloud, Sephiroth, and Sora and be cut if they're not doing Everyone is Here again.

The only major copyright issue was the music, other than that Dragon quest iseasily the easiest one to license and with how popular the series is in japan i find it hard to believe they would cut it

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

quality over quantity. veterans haven't been updated in forever, so I'd like to see them be brought up to par with newcomers.

Most veterans have actually been significantly reworked by either Smash 4 or Ultimate.

Some examples off the top of my head:
-Mr. Game & Watch is basically a completely different character from his Melee/Brawl version. He has like four moves that are still the same
-3 of Pit's 4 special moves are completely different compared to Brawl
-Mario was not a flashy combo-oriented character before Smash 4. To add to that, Dr. Mario wasn't actually slower than Mario in Melee
-All of Bowser's animations have been remade from scratch
-Luigi got the Poltergust and a ton of animation changes
-Link is now BotW styled, he shoots his laser when he's at 0%, has the Remote Bombs, can pick up his own arrows and has lost the Hookshot; this in turn also made Young Link more unique
-DK finally has his roll and can finally use his down B in mid-air, plus he has a ton more facial expressions
-Pokémon Trainer lost the dumb stamina and type weaknesses mechanics; one special and a quite a few normals of Charizard have been changed, Squirtle and Ivysaur play mostly the same but they have both been remade from scratch
-Lucario's aura gimmick has been heavily enhanced since Brawl, his special moves change more dramatically and the difference in power from base Lucario to fully charged Lucario is bigger than ever
-Dedede's side B changed in Smash 4, and his neutral B acquired new functionalities in Ultimate as it can now reflect projectiles, which also combines with his new side B, giving him just so much more stuff to do compared to his Brawl incarnation
-Shulk's Arts last way less and are way more powerful in Ultimate
-Pichu went from joke character to legit glass cannon
-Roy's stats changed dramatically as well as quite a few of his normals, and he actually uses his reverse grip now
-Zelda got radically redesigned and reanimated in Ultimate, Phantom Slash does a lot to improve her playstyle
-Wario lost his jerky animations from Brawl and moved his shoulder bash to dash attack
-Sheik got two new special moves that really bring her kit together
-Falco is barely a clone anymore, and Wolf got completely remade in Ultimate
-Ness's PSI Magnet has a hitbox now, he got new animations and his PK Thunder is more functional now
-Lucas's z-air used to be a useless move in Brawl and is now an important part of his kit that further differentiates him from Ness in combos and recovery
-Jigglypuff got her modern design in Smash 4
-Ganondorf is still the most egregious example of a clone, but now he and Falcon actually share basically just the specials and the aerials
-Yoshi changed posture from Brawl to Ultimate and a lot of his headbutt attacks have become kicks
-Diddy stretches more and has more range, he doesn't use his tail to attack anymore, his dash attack has changed to become a better combo starter, banana has been nerfed, and as of Ultimate he has quite a few new animations involving his hat
-A ton of stuff changed about Olimar. Pikmin order, up B, max number of pikmin, and he has more non-pikmin moves now. Also, pikmin can bring items to Olimar now
-Ice Climbers got a ton of new animations, a few moves work differently, they don't have the chain grabs anymore
-Kirby by definition gets updated each time they add a new character

...Sorry. This got way longer than I thought it would
But I mean... Saying that the veterans haven't been updated in forever feels ungenerous to me. How are these not significant changes? Some of these might not be the flashiest freshest things ever, but they're enough to change (or to improve) the feel of a character. In fact, I'd argue that almost every character feels at their all-time most distinct and functional in Ultimate.
Balancing is also the best it's ever been, despite the gigantic cast. Not that it matters to 90% of the player base, but even low tiers quite often have crazy tournament runs and I believe most (if not every single one) characters have gotten top 8 at majors?

Super meters and crazy gimmicks get a lot of attention but it's not like every new character has those. Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Plant, Banjo, Byleth, Pyra/Mythra and Sora aren't really more intricate at a superficial level than the average Brawl character. That's half of the newcomers.
A few models are admittedly starting to show their age (looking at you Diddy) if you pause the game and zoom, and you can always make some adjustments, but again, I really can't see in what way exactly the newcomers are of such a high quality to obscure the veterans.

 

[Louie G.]

So if they do want Ken back, I feel he'll be back, his case will be decided more by how they handle negotiation with those rights and if he gets sidelined during the process for someone or something else.

Yeah, that's why Chun-Li is sort of my variable here. Granted I don't think getting either of them would be that much of a struggle if Ryu is getting negotiated anyway, if not playable they would at least have some presence in the game and need to be licensed out regardless. But then it would just come down if they want to use their time on three different Street Fighter characters, or would rather Ken take a backseat. It's a pretty baseless hypothetical for now, but it's something I've considered just because I do think Chun-Li has a good chance moving forward.

Usually we don't bother with this sort of revolving door routine, but for third party / guest characters it might be more feasible to consider.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Roy and Dr. Mario were planned, but got the axe for time constraints (same with Mewtwo). The only characters Brawl planned to cut were Pichu (who was incredibly unpopular with the fanbase at the time) and Young Link (who was switched out for Toon Link to represent the Wind Waker and all the other cell-shaded Zelda games that came out between Melee and Brawl).

And yet they were both Low Priority enough to end up getting cut even after Sonic delayed the game.

 

[Ivander]

The only major copyright issue was the music, other than that Dragon quest is easily the easiest one to license and with how popular the series is in japan i find it hard to believe they would cut it

Are we sure about that? Because I heard something about how before Smash Bros. Ultimate, the Heroes themselves hardly appeared in crossovers aside from a couple of them and quite often if they were part of a crossover, it was mostly their outfit/gear/etc rather than the character themselves. Which falls in line with something Sakurai said regarding him getting Dragon Quest in Smash where he was willing to go with the Slime mascot character if he wasn't allowed to pick any of the Heroes.

Like the music might be more of a non-issue now, I'm not denying that, but it's hard to say the music was the only tough factor.

 

[PeridotGX]

The spirit event just started up, and the weird thing is that there's a fourth spirit they didn't reveal ahead of time.

I'm assuming this is the main antagonist of Engage? I haven't played it yet, I've only played SoV, Awakening, and like half of 3H. He seems really hype and cool though.

 

[Sucumbio]

The spirit event just started up, and the weird thing is that there's a fourth spirit they didn't reveal ahead of time.
View attachment 383514
I'm assuming this is the main antagonist of Engage? I haven't played it yet, I've only played SoV, Awakening, and like half of 3H. He seems really hype and cool though.

Thracia 776 which I've never played but yeah he's a minor villain in Engage

 

[Ivander]

The spirit event just started up, and the weird thing is that there's a fourth spirit they didn't reveal ahead of time.
View attachment 383514
I'm assuming this is the main antagonist of Engage? I haven't played it yet, I've only played SoV, Awakening, and like half of 3H. He seems really hype and cool though.

Veld?! From Thracia 776, the 5th Fire Emblem game? What's more, this is his Fire Emblem Heroes design.

..........Wot?!...This is, by far, the most Random Spirit they've added.

 

[Perkilator]

The spirit event just started up, and the weird thing is that there's a fourth spirit they didn't reveal ahead of time.
View attachment 383514
I'm assuming this is the main antagonist of Engage? I haven't played it yet, I've only played SoV, Awakening, and like half of 3H. He seems really hype and cool though.

...I'm not going insane, am I? Because I haven't seen any mention of a Veld Spirit Battle anywhere else.

 

[cashregister9]

The spirit event just started up, and the weird thing is that there's a fourth spirit they didn't reveal ahead of time.
View attachment 383514
I'm assuming this is the main antagonist of Engage? I haven't played it yet, I've only played SoV, Awakening, and like half of 3H. He seems really hype and cool though.

Yeah I think they pushed a different event or something because there are 2 more weird FE characters.

 

[PeridotGX]

Yeah I think they pushed a different event or something because there are 2 more weird FE characters.

Huh. That's really ****ing odd. Maybe there's going to be a Heroes event to celebrate the Smash anniversary?

 

[Ivander]

Yeah I think they pushed a different event or something because there are 2 more weird FE characters.

Oliver from Fire Emblem Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn? Desaix from Fire Emblem Gaiden/Echoes?

Is the Event going on right now? Cause I'm not getting any Event Spirits up.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

We will never escape Fire emblem

 

[Ivander]

Where are these images coming from? Cause I am finding absolutely nothing about these. Like...this can't be the only place that's talking about this if this is real.

 

[APC99]

Yeah I think they pushed a different event or something because there are 2 more weird FE characters.

There's definitely something weird going on, I can't screenshot but I got an Arvis spirit to show up. What a strange lineup of characters.

 

[Perkilator]

Where are these images coming from? Cause I am finding absolutely nothing about these. Like...this can't be the only place that's talking about this if this is real.

Bottom text

 

[Laniv]

Checked SmashWiki, Twitter, Reddit, no one's mentioning this. Bizarre.

 

[RileyXY1]

This Spirit Event series is getting weirder and weirder by the minute.

 

[PeridotGX]

Checked SmashWiki, Twitter, Reddit, no one's mentioning this. Bizarre.

Maybe it's only showing up in one time zone? I don't know what to tell you. All i know is i got the veld spirit.

Bottom text

Is there even a way to mod spirits? I haven't heard anything about it.

 

[Gorgonzales]

View attachment 383518
it's funny to think they activated the wrong event on accident

 

[Ivander]

Is there even a way to mod spirits? I haven't heard anything about it.

There is, as I think epicmartin7 did a couple of modded Spirit Events IIRC.

That said, I don't have a Twitter account to see if there's anything there and so far, I'm not finding anybody else reporting this on any of the other bigger sites like Reddit and whatnot. To me, this is just very weird since the Event is not happening for me. If it is Timezones, I'm EST.

 

[CannonStreak]

I can't seem to find anything on Twitter, too. I wonder what is going on here?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Assuming this isn't just a joke people are in on, the connection seems to be of villains specifically.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

100% a joke, at least one of the posts are. That spirit board image with Oliver and Desaix is just edited from this screenshot off the Smash Wiki:

 

[Ivander]

Assuming this isn't just a joke people are in on, the connection seems to be of villains specifically.

Yeah, so far, Desaix from FE2/15, Arvis from FE4, Veld from FE5(And he's using Fire Emblem Heroes art, and is the only one with FEH Artwork) and Oliver from FE9/10.

Edit:....Well that image really hits the credibility hard.......this is starting to look really suspicious.

 

[Perkilator]

100% a joke, at least one of the posts are. That spirit board image with Oliver and Desaix is just edited from this screenshot off the Smash Wiki:

View attachment 383522

That's it, the Twitlonger's coming. PeridotGX and cashregister9 , you are officially canceled.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Yeah, so far, Desaix from FE2/15, Arvis from FE4, Veld from FE5(And he's using Fire Emblem Heroes art, and is the only one with FEH Artwork) and Oliver from FE9/10.

Aren't these meme villains in general too?

What's next, someone claiming Reinhardt?


EDIT: Yeah, joke didn't last long.

 

[Ivander]

Aren't these meme villains in general too?

What's next, someone claiming Reinhardt?

Oliver and Desaix kinda are, but Arvis is far from a meme villain and if you wanted a meme villain for FE5, you wouldn't pick Veld, you'd either pick Reinhardt or Kempf, Especially the latter due to that "In America" meme.

 

[APC99]

I said Arvis as a joke because he's the funny and iconic Fire Emblem villain who marries and has a child with his actual real sister and I figured right away this was all BS.

Also god it's been years since I've logged into this account. Got this award and it hit me like a flashbang.

 

[Sucumbio]

Lol wtf is happening ? Oliver tho?
Actually he wasn't a bad party addition

 

[PeridotGX]

Aren't these meme villains in general too?

What's next, someone claiming Reinhardt?


EDIT: Yeah, joke didn't last long.

Okay yeah it's a meme. someone in a discord server i'm in made that image (veld is an in-joke) and I decided to post that image to mess with everyone. sorry for the trickery.

cashregister9 thank you for backing me up. I'm pretty sure he's not even in the server, he just continued the bit lol.

 

[cashregister9]

Okay yeah it's a meme. someone in a discord server i'm in made that image (veld is anjoke) and I decided to post that image to mess with everyone. sorry for the trickery

cashregister9 thank you for backing me up. I'm pretty sure he's not even in the server, he just continued the bit lol.

I'm not, I am just Desaix meme poisoned and saw a good bit.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Okay yeah it's a meme. someone in a discord server i'm in made that image (veld is anjoke) and I decided to post that image to mess with everyone. sorry for the trickery

cashregister9 thank you for backing me up. I'm pretty sure he's not even in the server, he just continued the bit lol.

It's just like Chunky Kong in Smash 4, except this bit lasted a total of one hour

 

[NotGenerico]

I feel like all Square Enix characters are coming back. First off, Square actually lend a lot of their content to Ultimate, not only did they get 2 DLC characters (3 if you count Sora), they also got 3 Spirit Events promoting their newest games (Trials of Mana, Bravely Default II and Octopath Traveler) as well as including Geno and Mallow as base game Spirits. It seems like Square and Nintendo have a really good relationship currently and I don't see that changing in the near future. Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are also very popular series, so I think Nintendo will prioritize getting them back.

In fact, I'm going to make a bold prediction right now. I believe that not only will all Square Enix characters return on base game, Geno will be one of the first newcomers announced for the game. I also see 2B getting in as one of the first DLC characters, too.

 

[Ivander]

Okay yeah it's a meme. someone in a discord server i'm in made that image (veld is an in-joke) and I decided to post that image to mess with everyone. sorry for the trickery.

cashregister9 thank you for backing me up. I'm pretty sure he's not even in the server, he just continued the bit lol.

Well, it was bizarre while it lasted.

That said, if there's anything you should be ashamed of, you prevented me from starting and playing Klonoa for the first time because your post made me quickly switch out of Phantasy Reverie to Smash Bros to possibly see unannounced content.