Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

I just miss Dedede’s Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos. That was such a cool and unique move and limiting it to just Gordos isn’t nearly as exciting.

 

[fogbadge]

So the franchise is the most profitable of any IP in history. You’d think they could manage better than PS2 level graphics today. I don’t particularly care about graphics much but there’s not much an excuse for a franchise this big. At the very least, it should be on par with those PS2 games but I don’t think they even reach that point. I’d be a lot more fine with these graphics from a smaller indie developer and I can still have fun with the game despite them but they’re pretty laughable. It’s more a combination of both the cut content and poor production values that gets annoying. I could easily live with one or the other.

yeah they’re the most profitable but like I said before whoever is charge of the is clearly an idiot. and they’re still developing these games in the same way they developed the DS ones. but expecting shiny graphics has always been detrimental to game development. like I said just a bit more time to smooth things out. what does it matter if it looks a little dated. especially in this age of trying to recapture the old days

 

[CannonStreak]

I just miss Dedede’s Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos. That was such a cool and unique move and limiting it to just Gordos isn’t nearly as exciting.

I miss them too. I liked how the Waddle Dees jumped to attack and the Waddle Doos fired their beam.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I feel weird about Pichu, Dr. Mario, Falco and Young Link because I like all three a lot more than their original counterparts.
I believe I even like Lucas more than Ness nowadays

 

[Gorgonzales]

Pokemon, Mario Kart, and any number of other fighting game series often make significant cuts from title to title. This is normal. You think the next Mario Kart is going to have all of 8D's content? The games still sell because of the characters/courses present, the new stuff, the gameplay, and the brand name.

Saying Smash is different because of how few cuts its received over time is just a testament to the entitlement of the fanbase and why, from that perspective, the eventual culling will help snap the fanbase back to the reality of genres like this and unsustainable expansion. At some point using the Smash 4 data will make development too cost ineffective against their current technology that Nintendo won't greenlight a game with that conceit. And starting again simply won't make hitting old numbers feasible. Just from a logistics perspective, the roster being reduced is inevitable. Even if it's not with this next game (though I think it will be - their base is twelve years old at this point), eventually it is.

The next Smash will have some sort of new hook as a part of it - they all have something - but a game that has Mario, Link, Pikachu, Kirby, DK, Villager, Inkling, Sonic, Pac-Man, Cloud, etc., plus a normal amount of hype newcomers, a bigass marketing budget and is called Smash Bros. will sell. The fanbase may complain about the quantity of cuts, but that doesn't mean it won't perform well critically and commercially.


There's no reason not to have their series listed here. I agree it's odd, but it's almost certainly an oversight.

Like, what, is there going to be a 13 Sentinels character? I kinda doubt it.

This. A new Smash could release with 30 characters and I guarantee it'd still be a best-seller. People would complain forever and ever, but Smash is Smash, and Smash will sell, no matter how many people delude themselves into not getting the new game because it lacks X character. It's Smash. You're going to buy it.

It's like Pokemon. Even though that series is violently convulsing with the dex cut, buggy messes of new games, and mediocre graphics, it still sells like hotcakes, no matter how much people complain. And fortunately, unlike Pokemon, Smash has actual quality control, so rest-assured the content that is there is going to at the very least be great.

 

[Gengar84]

yeah they’re the most profitable but like I said before whoever is charge of the is clearly an idiot. and they’re still developing these games in the same way they developed the DS ones. but expecting shiny graphics has always been detrimental to game development. like I said just a bit more time to smooth things out. what does it matter if it looks a little dated. especially in this age of trying to recapture the old days

I think there should be a good balance where the graphics still look good but they don’t waste their whole development on trying to make them perfect. Modern day Square-Enix is an example of them going a bit too far with it. I don’t really need photo-realistic graphics in my games like FFVII Remake but I’d still like them to look nice. A lot of that has to do with art direction over power.

 

[fogbadge]

I think there should be a good balance where the graphics still look good but they don’t waste their whole development on trying to make them perfect. Modern day Square-Enix is an example of them going a bit too far with it. I don’t really need photo-realistic graphics in my games like FFVII Remake but I’d still like them to look nice. A lot of that has to do with art direction over power.

Well that’s not SE’s only problem at the moment

 

[dream1ng]

Mario Kart not retaining much content from an installment to another is something that comes from a different time imo.
Jumps in technology from a console to another were massive back then. 2d, to crude 3d, to detailed 3d, to HD + online + whatever gimmick most of Nintendo's consoles had. Such a jump, and whatever gimmick a new game would introduce, would take a lot of development time and of course with more limited time they'd prioritize new courses over old ones. DLC didn't exist back then.
Expectations have also changed, the "game as a platform" sorta model didn't exist for a majority of Mario Kart's (and even Smash's) lives, but now it does.

And that's the explanation behind a lot of it, but most people don't take the time to analyze it like that, which is why when the next Mario Kart, which could just build off of 8D... doesn't, people aren't going to be mad. Because of being accustomed to the series not operating like that.

It's also why any number of fighting games restart despite having a previous iteration from not that long ago they could've just built off of.

Now take all those various examples of what people are accustomed to, all those different games that don't retain their content from title to title, and what forms is a general notion of how games work. That often between titles, especially in fighting game titles, content is lost. Mix that with the fact that Smash itself has also had cuts before. Not in high numbers, but even cutting a few characters gets noticed.

Add that all up, and you have a general consumer base that isn't going to be flabbergasted if and when Smash loses characters. It's the Smash fanbase in particular that will react most adversely to the cuts. Less invested consumers see video games as victims of this kind of stuff regularly. If people can scream online about Pokemon, a series that had no precedent of cuts, and then it can still be the second best selling title in the series, the GP doesn't have their discontent outweigh their interest.

Yes, the quantity will likely be palpable, and elicit backlash in excess of previous cuts - but when you throw "omg they added x" trailers and the promise of vets (though not all vets) being re-added as DLC, and compound that with the idea of cuts not being as drastic to the average player, most consumers will be abated. Perhaps still not entirely pleased about a specific cut, but still looking forward to the game. Which is the ultimate goal.

The next console jump, barring some totally crazy gimmick Nintendo would want to introduce to Switch 2, doesn't look like it's going to be particularly drastic though. It will probably just be about better graphics and maybe better AI.
Really can't see why Ultimate's base would be so outdated.

This is also acting like Nintendo/Sakurai's MO is to only restart when absolutely necessary instead of it being by far the norm. They usually start again from system to system, let alone with bases that are two generations behind.

We don't know the Switch 2's architecture yet - if it's a very incremental leap from the Switch, there'd be a better chance. But the Wii U was slightly above PS3/360, so if the Switch 2 is around PS4 Pro or Xbox Series S levels, that's not an insubstantial gap. A big part depends what the cost of development on the old existing base would be versus the cost of using contemporary tech. Because this game is also going to be getting support probably into like... if I had to guess, 2029. This game is going to entail an extensive future roadmap, and many years of development, thus development costs.

 

[Gengar84]

My problem is that most of my favorite current characters are seen as likely cuts and most of my most wanted are already seen as unlikely, even with Everyone is Here 2. If I lose all my current favorites and don’t get any new ones in return, it’s going to be hard to get too excited about it. Most of the popular requests for me would be like my reception to Kazuya or Terry in “oh that’s kind of cool, they make sense”. Like Pokémon, I’ll still buy the game because it’s Smash and I’ve bought every previous entry but I will definitely be disappointed and likely go back to Ultimate after a month or two. I doubt I’d be as active in these threads because I’d know none of my favorites would ever have a realistic chance.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I checked, and yep: Zagreus and the 13 Oomfies don't have their series listed, just like with Noah and Mio.

I believe the ERSB may shed some light on this. Remember the laws that went into place during fp2 that made it so in the west they couldn't mention series that had a higher age rating than Smash's? Wouldn't be surprised if that's the same deal for all three games affected by this. Granted, it doesn't explain why the series don't appear in the Japanese version as well... But maybe they just didn't want to bother with adding a series tag that only would appear in some regions?

 

[SneakyLink]

I checked, and yep: Zagreus and the 13 Oomfies don't have their series listed, just like with Noah and Mio.

I believe the ERSB may shed some light on this. Remember the laws that went into place during fp2 that made it so in the west they couldn't mention series that had a higher age rating than Smash's? Wouldn't be surprised if that's the same deal for all three games affected by this. Granted, it doesn't explain why the series don't appear in the Japanese version as well... But maybe they just didn't want to bother with adding a series tag that only would appear in some regions?

Something to add is that for series that were rated T by the ESRB they had a disclaimer stating such.

M rated franchises just stated the character name.

Europe later adopted a similar thing while Japan never did until now.

 

[Louie G.]

I just miss Dedede’s Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos. That was such a cool and unique move and limiting it to just Gordos isn’t nearly as exciting.

I’m sorry, but Gordo Throw has more versatility than Waddle Dee Toss ever did. Superficially I guess it’s limited to just Gordo, but that Gordo doesn’t work like the one in Brawl and offers so many unique ways to use and interact with it. I feel like when people say this they’re just not spending enough time playing Dedede and judging at face value. This move made him way more exciting and offers far more freedom and creativity in how you can play him. I’ll just echo what I said yesterday.

It's a projectile with interesting flexibility... you can ledge trap, you can stick it to the stage. You can inhale it and spit it back out. You can be unpredictable with three different angles, you can pressure opponents by throwing one out and running in for the grab. It moves slow, so if you're lucky you can even throw an opponent into it while it's active.

You’re welcome to your opinion of course but I’ll go to war for Gordo Throw if I have to, it’s genuinely so great.

 

[Oracle Link]

I think that’s just because BotW and TotK are the big new games. It seems like the gaming figure trend didn’t really start until around that point. I’m personally holding out for an Ocarina of Time Link and Ganondorf. I love Twilight Princess Zelda but I can justify spending nearly $150 on a figure. My cap for most figures is about $65 but I did spend more on a couple. There’s a really awesome $90 Mega Man X figure with a light up Mega Buster that was just too cool to pass up. I think I have a bit of a problem because I buy more figures than I have room to display lol.

View attachment 383462

If we do get X as a character in the future, I’d love this design as an alt. I think it was originally made as an April Fool’s joke but was made canon later due to its popularity.

They couldve done a figure based on Links awekning! That game got nothing no plush just one amiibo!

Btw i really want the gameboy zelda main theme for the next smash!
Also perhaps tarm ruins?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, I was one of those who genuinely enjoyed Pichu in Melee. I know its self-damage gimmick was a tad more 'pronounced' there than it was in Ultimate, but I felt as though it attacks hit harder than Pikachu. What's more, I also subscribe to the theory that Plusle and Minun were not only planned for Brawl (Hey, they would have represented Gen. 3, you know), but they also would have used Pichu as a base for their models and animations, the way Toon Link did for Young Link.

As for Spiky-eared Pichu, I do have a question regarding her. It's probably safe to say that since she was simply an alternate costume for Pichu in Ultimate Nintendo (and Bandai-Namco) weren't willing to shell the potential extra money to have her be voiced by Shoko Nakagawa, right?

That or some kind of union problem.

I think Pichu did have some higher damage in Melee, but I don't remember in Ultimate.

And yeah, that's very probable for Plusle & Minun if they were planned. It makes a lot of sense, especially since the pair are basically a very similar design to Pichu. If not directly modified from it as a fun way to show off the latest mechanic(double battles). Pichu is pretty much "the" Baby Pokemon(its mascot, if you will). Togepi isn't actually one, but the closest to another you could find, heh.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m sorry, but Gordo Throw has more versatility than Waddle Dee Toss ever did. Superficially I guess it’s limited to just Gordo, but that Gordo doesn’t work like the one in Brawl and offers so many unique ways to use and interact with it. I feel like when people say this they’re just not spending enough time playing Dedede and judging at face value. This move made him way more exciting and offers far more freedom and creativity in how you can play him. I’ll just echo what I said yesterday.



You’re welcome to your opinion of course but I’ll go to war for Gordo Throw if I have to, it’s genuinely so great.

The projectile is fun and interesting on its own but since I’m just a casual player, I put more value on the fun and flavor of a move than its competitive viability. I just thought being able to summon wandering units was a really cool and unique move for a character to have. The Gordo feels less like a unit and more like a standard projectile, though with its own mechanics and properties like you mentioned. I’m not saying people are wrong to want something more competitively viable, just that I personally enjoyed messing around and having fun with characters more than trying to be as good as I could be. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[dream1ng]

This. A new Smash could release with 30 characters and I guarantee it'd still be a best-seller. People would complain forever and ever, but Smash is Smash, and Smash will sell, no matter how many people delude themselves into not getting the new game because it lacks X character. It's Smash. You're going to buy it.

It's like Pokemon. Even though that series is violently convulsing with the dex cut, buggy messes of new games, and mediocre graphics, it still sells like hotcakes, no matter how much people complain. And fortunately, unlike Pokemon, Smash has actual quality control, so rest-assured the content that is there is going to at the very least be great.

Yeah, I've said this before, but Smash's prosperity isn't nearly as fragile as some here seem to suggest it is.

I see it said that people won't buy a Smash that shrinks by a substantial amount of fighters. But... yes they will.

However many characters they do manage to add despite starting over is still going to be, for a fighting game, pretty high. And when those characters are many of gaming's biggest faces in a proven, quality series that receives a ton of marketing... yeah, the game will sell no problem. And that's without even factoring in that newcomer reveals aren't going to stop hyping people up any time soon.

They reveal Master Chief? Crash Bandicoot? Waluigi? Danté? One of them Sanic characters? The Dooo000OOO000ooom Slayer? Sans Undertale? That dang ol puppet? Anime swordfighter #53? At some point you're gonna go "yeah that was pretty awesome".

I'm not over here going "oh boy, can't wait for cuts" - it's not like I want to see Ultimate get stripped down rather than built up, I just... recognize them both as inevitable (if not next time, eventually) yet not fatal.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Reminder that we are 5 pages away for page 1000.

Who will take the first post?

 

[Gengar84]

I think Pokémon Sword and Shield proves that most people will still buy the game with a drastically reduced roster. I’m one of those people for both games. However, I think there’s a difference between buying a game and having fun with it for a while and something you love so much that you stick with it for years. A drastically cut roster would firmly put the game in the former category for me unless we see something huge in return.

Though, to be honest, the deal maker for me is how easy the game is to mod. If modders can easily add back all the cut content as well as a ton of new characters and stages, a drastically smaller base roster wouldn’t matter too much to me. I only stuck with Ultimate as long as I have thanks to mods. Otherwise, I think I would have been done after all the DLC ended.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

well you see gengar you’ve hit upon the difference between yourself and the fandom as a whole. they were unbelievably vocal when it first happened and brought it up at every opportunity but a soon as the game was out people calmed down and only brought it up every once in a while. and I personally have spent more time in the post game of sword and shield and scarlet and violet than I ever did in the battle resort

Post game?

Yeah, I've said this before, but Smash's prosperity isn't nearly as fragile as some here seem to suggest it is.

I see it said that people won't buy a Smash that shrinks by a substantial amount of fighters. But... yes they will.

However many characters they do manage to add despite starting over is still going to be, for a fighting game, pretty high. And when those characters are many of gaming's biggest faces in a proven, quality series that receives a ton of marketing... yeah, the game will sell no problem. And that's without even factoring in that newcomer reveals aren't going to stop hyping people up any time soon.

They reveal Master Chief? Crash Bandicoot? Waluigi? Danté? One of them Sanic characters? The Dooo000OOO000ooom Slayer? Sans Undertale? That dang ol puppet? Anime swordfighter #53? At some point you're gonna go "yeah that was pretty awesome".

I'm not over here going "oh boy, can't wait for cuts" - it's not like I want to see Ultimate get stripped down rather than built up, I just... recognize them both as inevitable (if not next time, eventually) yet not fatal.

Honestly the only way i wont play a new smash game is if it's exclusive to a streaming app.

Which is the direction the industry is slowly moving in.

 

[Louie G.]

The projectile is fun and interesting on its own but since I’m just a casual player, I put more value on the fun and flavor of a move than its competitive viability. I just thought being able to summon wandering units was a really cool and unique move for a character to have. The Gordo feels less like a unit and more like a standard projectile, though with its own mechanics and properties like you mentioned. I’m not saying people are wrong to want something more competitively viable, just that I personally enjoyed messing around and having fun with characters more than trying to be as good as I could be. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I understand, but now I feel like you're misconstruing my perspective if you think I'm only in favor of this because it makes Dedede more competitively viable. Dedede is not a "viable" character, as a matter of fact he was more competitively viable in Brawl than he ever was... in part because he had a chain grab, but I digress. I literally like Gordo because it's more fun to mess around with, like you said. There is nothing goofier than being able to inhale a gordo and spit it back out, then for it to be reflected or another Dedede to inhale it, and then play a game of Gordo rally mid-match. I value this move so much because of how many opportunities for silly antics there are, that is why I play Dedede. If I just wanted to win and reach my full potential, he wouldn't be my main.

I do think it's neat to have a move where you can order in the troops and knock them around. If it had come back, I would have liked to see where they took it. In Brawl I feel like it was a bit undercooked and you didn't have a whole lot to do after the fact. Sure the Waddle Dee is here, maybe you can slap it into an opponent, but the options here are far less than just the sheer amount of ways you can interact with the Gordo. So I'm not in favor of simplification for the sake of streamlining and making Dedede more competitive here, I'm advocating for the same thing you are. More ways to screw around and have fun.

 

[fogbadge]

Post game?

it’s when you play a game after the credits roll

 

[dream1ng]

Honestly the only way i wont play a new smash game is if it's exclusive to a streaming app.

Which is the direction the industry is slowly moving in.

Don't worry Nintendo embraces new trends about as quickly as a parent on facebook

 

[Gengar84]

I understand, but now I feel like you're misconstruing my perspective if you think I'm only in favor of this because it makes Dedede more competitively viable. Dedede is not a "viable" character, as a matter of fact he was more competitively viable in Brawl than he ever was... in part because he had a chain grab, but I digress. I literally like Gordo because it's more fun to mess around with, like you said. There is nothing goofier than being able to inhale a gordo and spit it back out, then for it to be reflected or another Dedede to inhale it, and then play a game of Gordo rally mid-match. I value this move so much because of how many opportunities for silly antics there are, that is why I play Dedede. If I just wanted to win and reach my full potential, he wouldn't be my main.

I do think it's neat to have a move where you can order in the troops and knock them around. If it had come back, I would have liked to see where they took it. In Brawl I feel like it was a bit undercooked and you didn't have a whole lot to do after the fact. Sure the Waddle Dee is here, maybe you can slap it into an opponent, but the options here are far less than just the sheer amount of ways you can interact with the Gordo. So I'm not in favor of simplification for the sake of streamlining and making Dedede more competitive here, I'm advocating for the same thing you are. More ways to screw around and have fun.

Oops, sorry for the misunderstanding. Yeah, my memory is a bit fuzzy as to exactly how Gordo worked in Brawl. The added functionality in Ultimate is a lot of fun, you’re right. I do wish we’d at least get some character with a minion summoning attack again. That’s part of why I like the idea of Sarah Kerrigan so much as a character.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Don't worry Nintendo embraces new trends about as quickly as a parent on facebook

...I dont know what to tell you but Nintendo already does streaming, there are cloud games on the switch and we all celebrate Golden sun coming to a streaming app a couple days ago.

it’s when you play a game after the credits roll

Sword and shield doesnt have anything after the credits though

 

[fogbadge]

Sword and shield doesnt have anything after the credits though

besides the epilogue and the battle tower you mean

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

And that's the explanation behind a lot of it, but most people don't take the time to analyze it like that, which is why when the next Mario Kart, which could just build off of 8D... doesn't, people aren't going to be mad. Because of being accustomed to the series not operating like that.

This is a hypothetical scenario, though. The next Mario Kart hasn't come out and hasn't even been announced.
From game to game, you usally went from 20 something tracks to other 20 something tracks. This time, it would be from... 80? (I've lost count, don't play much MK8 personally) to 20. A reduction of content as drastic as this has never happened in the series. It is unprecedented. Who knows how people would take it? More so when you can just whip out the old game at parties.

Also, I don't think that "Smash sells because it's Smash" is a particularly valid reasoning. Melee was already literally the most successful game on its console, by this logic the sequels could very well have not bothered expanding from the scope of that game.
Sakurai in particular doesn't think like this. He's constantly trying to one-up himself and is on record saying that a sequel to Ultimate would have to be worth it. I mean, if the point is selling as many copies as possible with the least amount of effort, porting Ultimate is actually the way to go.

And also, other fighting game series may be used to cuts, but Smash really isn't. Even outside of Ultimate bringing everyone back, you'd only lose a handful of characters at worst from game to game. Losing 20 old characters in exchange for 20 new characters is one thing; halving the roster is a totally different scenario.
I'm not sure why Smash should conform to Street Fighter's standards now. It never did during its entire existence. I think it's also worth adding that Smash is indeed a fighting game, but it is also a party game and a crossover.

This is also acting like Nintendo/Sakurai's MO is to only restart when absolutely necessary instead of it being by far the norm. They usually start again from system to system, let alone with bases that are two generations behind.

We don't know the Switch 2's architecture yet - if it's a very incremental leap from the Switch, there'd be a better chance. But the Wii U was slightly above PS3/360, so if the Switch 2 is around PS4 Pro or Xbox Series S levels, that's not an insubstantial gap. A big part depends what the cost of development on the old existing base would be versus the cost of using contemporary tech. Because this game is also going to be getting support probably into like... if I had to guess, 2029. This game is going to entail an extensive future roadmap, and many years of development, thus development costs.

Smash has always gained content though, even in front of way more drastic jumps.
Brawl to Smash 4 was certainly a bigger jump. They went from an overclocked GC to HD development, a transition that's historically been extremely difficult for most developers - not only that, but they also had to develop it alongside a portable version, the limitations of which they had to keep in mind, and also while adding functional netcode for the first time in the series. Yet, in spite of the handful of cut characters, Smash 4 had more stuff than Brawl.

And also, why would they have to restart from scratch now? The development team is very likely to be the same. It's not like they don't reuse stuff, some animations haven't been changed since Brawl. Wolf still goes into his old idle if you pick a small item with him...

 

[Guynamednelson]

we all celebrate Golden sun coming to a streaming app a couple days ago.

NES/SNES/etc. Online aren't streaming apps. They require a subscription, but all the emulation is being done on your system.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

...I dont know what to tell you but Nintendo already does streaming, there are cloud games on the switch and we all celebrate Golden sun coming to a streaming app a couple days ago.

Unless I missed something, no, Golden sun wasn't added on a streaming app. NSO isn't streaming, you run the game natively on the console. And the cloud game on Switch means nothing, just because they allow publishers to add cloud game on the eshop doesn't mean that suddenly the next Smash is going to be streaming only.

I get that with everything that his happening recently it's normal to be a bit pessimistic about video game future, but the chances that the next Smash bros of all thing is a streaming only game is so low that I don't even get why it crossed your mind.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I checked, and yep: Zagreus and the 13 Oomfies don't have their series listed, just like with Noah and Mio.

I believe the ERSB may shed some light on this. Remember the laws that went into place during fp2 that made it so in the west they couldn't mention series that had a higher age rating than Smash's? Wouldn't be surprised if that's the same deal for all three games affected by this. Granted, it doesn't explain why the series don't appear in the Japanese version as well... But maybe they just didn't want to bother with adding a series tag that only would appear in some regions?

It just doesn't look right for the spirit to not have the name of the series that it came from.

 

[Freduardo]

An Ultimate Deluxe port would just be redundant unless the Switch 2 does not have backwards compatibility, because otherwise you would be able to play Ultimate as is on the new system. Plus, the Switch has a massive install base so ports of Switch games for the Switch 2 wouldn't make as much sense as Wii U ports for the Switch.

Depends what they add though doesn't it?

Mario Kart DX, before DLC, didn't just add all the dlc. It also added Inklings as characters, Dry Bones, a real battle mode(s), and battle mode stages (both retro and new).

So... if Smash added 2-3 new characters or even just like 5 echoes, A port of Subspace Emissary (with online co-op), a port of Melee Adventure mode, and a Boss Rush mode that doesn't require you to play as Sephiroth? ...Would that be worth 70 bucks to someone who already has Ultimate and all the DLC (including mii fighter costumes)?

No, absolutely not.

But would I still end up spending 70 bucks on it to have the most complete smash and the location of the next potential dlc dump?

Yeah, of course I would. I'm posting on a smash brothers forum. I should not be a doubtful sale for this.

 

[DarthEnderX]

On what basis?

On the same basis as your argument. Which is nothing.

Also you ignoring all the statistics and logistics I outline speaks volumes.

Because you made them up! You have no hard data on those statistics and logistics because Nintendo doesn't make them public. They're all assumptions you're making on how you THINK Nintendo's development process works. Which is notorious for not being run the way other game companies are run.

An Ultimate Deluxe port would just be redundant unless the Switch 2 does not have backwards compatibility, because otherwise you would be able to play Ultimate as is on the new system.

But then you wouldn't be able to add new DLC without also making it backwards compatible with the Switch version.

If you want your Switch 2 content to take advantage whatever Switch 2's improvements are, you can't just rely on backwards compatibility. You at least need it to be it's own port.

I think Pokémon Sword and Shield proves that most people will still buy the game with a drastically reduced roster. I’m one of those people for both games. However, I think there’s a difference between buying a game and having fun with it for a while and something you love so much that you stick with it for years. A drastically cut roster would firmly put the game in the former category for me unless we see something huge in return.

Exactly this. People will still buy the next Smash game, no matter how bad it is, because it's Smash. But it won't be looked at as the "best" Smash.

Sw/Sh and S/V both made huge additions to the scope of Pokemon that were never before seen in the franchise, but are still largely viewed as inferior entries, because of what they FAILED to do, in spite of what they added.

 

[Louie G.]

Honestly, at this point I want them to confirm what this next game is or isn't more than anything. Tired of Ultimate Deluxe port talk, or extreme bloodshed reboot talk, we just need some clarity so we can actually move forward. Of course we're not gonna actually learn this until we... yknow, get confirmation of the game at all, and probably not until its reveal trailer proper. We had people saying Ultimate was going to be a Smash 4 port once upon a time, up until E3. But I'm not sure how much more of this kind of conversation I can tolerate.

Admittedly though, I like treating roster speculation as a sort of puzzle to solve so the port talk kind of just bores me to tears. At least if we're deciding how to condense a roster, even if I don't think the cuts will be that drastic, it does offer more constructive thinking that shooing the thought away and saying everyone is gonna come back. Better to put the idea in my head of how far we can scale back than to convince myself the only option is to maintain everything and build on that foundation forever and then be crushed when that obviously doesn't happen.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly, at this point I want them to confirm what this next game is or isn't more than anything.

Ya. Just...gimmie a Super Switch Trailer. Followed immediately by the trailer for either Ultimate Deluxe or Smash 6. And if it's Smash 6, give me a "Everyone is Here! Again!" or a "...not everyone is gonna be here..."

Then our speculation can move on from there, with half of it already deconfirmed, so we don't have to argue about it anymore.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Talking about cuts is the opposite of fun though.

 

[fogbadge]

Talking about cuts is the opposite of fun though.

some of the roster additions were the opposite of fun

 

[Gorgonzales]

Talking about cuts is the opposite of fun though.

"it's fun for me!"

 

[Noipoi]

Talking about cuts is the opposite of fun though.

Eh, I think it can be interesting. Taking into account the reasons for a character’s inclusion at the time and how they may not factor now, stuff like that. Like how Piranha Plant was a funny dlc bonus for the ultimate smash game. Without that context, would they bother bringing it back?

It can lead to some decent discussion. Y’know, as long as no one takes it personally

 

[Louie G.]

Talking about cuts is the opposite of fun though.

I think talking about both is fun. I've already embraced the fact that next game will likely have to scale back in some capacity, and now I'm concerned about dictating which characters will come back. Like I said, to me it's sort of like a puzzle to solve. Of course, the longer I refuse to confront that the less fun I have seeing it be acknowledged. Crafting my own little condensed rosters on the side to see how low we can go until I'm dissatisfied is genuinely a fun exercise.

Obviously I enjoy talking about newcomers more, though. I'm just saying that it's not all miserable unless you make it out to be. Perhaps it's better to think of it from the more positive angle of deciding which characters will return, rather than bluntly saying things like "these are the characters I would cut".

 

[Ivander]

some of the roster additions were the opposite of fun

Give me more divisive additions! More Wii Fit Trainers! More Piranha Plants! More Incineroars! More Ice Climbers! More additions that bring out the salt! Which may be ironic considering how Jonesy is uninteresting to me and I would prefer other characters over him, but I'm not against him being included if he does get included.

 

[fogbadge]

Give me more divisive additions! More Wii Fit Trainers! More Piranha Plants! More Incineroars! More Ice Climbers! More additions that bring out the salt! Which may be ironic considering how Jonesy is uninteresting to me and I would prefer other characters over him, but I'm not against him being included if he does get included.

Only one of them was who I was thinking of