Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

Psaro from Dragon Quest is another interesting option for a beast tamer character. He was the main antagonist from Dragon Quest IV and main character of Dragon Quest Monsters. The latter is a monster catching game similar to Pokemon where you raise and train monsters from the Dragon Quest games. I haven’t played DQIV but I did complete the Monsters demo on the Switch (which took around 16 hours). Psaro has a really cool design and I’m always in favor of more villains in Smash. My top choice is still H’aanit both because she’s just as cool visually but Octopath has a much better soundtrack than Dragon Quest (imo) and has a unique visual design but Psaro would be fun too. He’d be a cool way to represent iconic DQ monsters like Slimes.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Psaro from Dragon Quest is another interesting option for a beast tamer character. He was the main antagonist from Dragon Quest IV and main character of Dragon Quest Monsters.

I've played through DQ4 and just finished 100%ing DQM The Dark Prince.

It was my first DQM game. Pretty good overall. Love the monsters and that you have a full simultanous party. But does some things worse than Pokemon.

Also, the story of that game ruins Psaro's character. But if Smash were going to get DQ villain Fighter, I still think Psaro is the front runner.

 

[Gengar84]

I've played through DQ4 and just finished 100%ing DQM The Dark Prince.

It was my first DQM game. Pretty good overall. Love the monsters and that you have a full simultanous party. But does some things worse than Pokemon.

Also, the story of that game ruins Psaro's character. But if Smash were going to get DQ villain Fighter, I still think Psaro is the front runner.

Would it still make sense to give Psaro monster summoning abilities if he was more based on his Dragon Quest IV incarnation? I prefer his older design to Monsters but I really like the idea of using monsters to help fight in Smash. Not sure if DQIV had a monster catching system. My first Dragon Quest was VIII and I really enjoyed that aspect of it. The only other games I’ve played are XI, which I beat the main story, and Monsters: The Dark Prince, where I just beat the demo and I’m waiting for a sale or price drop.

 

[ZephyrZ]

C'mon now, you can't just make a few minor tweaks to someone else's design and call it a "parody". There's reasonable limitations to what you can do with a parody so people don't just use it as an excuse to steal whatever work they'd like.

And stealing from fan artists is just scummy no matter how you spin it. They're no longer just sticking it to the big bad TPC at that point. It's just petty theft and I hope they get sued into oblivion.

 

[Gengar84]

C'mon now, you can't just make a few minor tweaks to someone else's design and call it a "parody". There's reasonable limitations to what you can do with a parody so people don't just use it as an excuse to steal whatever work they'd like.

And stealing from fan artists is just scummy no matter how you spin it. They're no longer just sticking it to the big bad TPC at that point. It's just petty theft and I hope they get sued into oblivion.

That is pretty bad. I can kind of understand knocking off huge established characters like the Pokemon but there’s no excuse for stealing fan art and trying to pass it off as your own, especially to make a profit. If that’s true, hopefully they face some kind of consequences. Again, all I really know about this whole controversy is what I’m reading here.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think DarthEnderX hit the nail on the head. This game is what Pokemon fans mad at SV being trash are buying as F u to Nintendo as a way of saying "you have no excuse" this is the game SV should have been, while at the same time the developers have taken the most popular game mechanics of the times. They used AI to help the development but no it is not just a computer generated game it still needed to be put together with human hands. The way it has been presented will be very difficult to prove copyright infringement because

Pokemon doesn't have guns
Fortnight doesn't own Axes
Breath of the Wild doesn't own The Music Cue
Etc.

Haters just mad jealous.

 

[AlRex]

Haters just mad jealous.

Your check’s in the mail, I assume.

 

[Gengar84]

I think DarthEnderX hit the nail on the head. This game is what Pokemon fans mad at SV being trash are buying as F u to Nintendo as a way of saying "you have no excuse" this is the game SV should have been, while at the same time the developers have taken the most popular game mechanics of the times. They used AI to help the development but no it is not just a computer generated game it still needed to be put together with human hands. The way it has been presented will be very difficult to prove copyright infringement because

Pokemon doesn't have guns
Fortnight doesn't own Axes
Breath of the Wild doesn't own The Music Cue
Etc.

Haters just mad jealous.

If the allegations are true that they are literally stealing other people’s fan arts in order to profit off them, I think the hate is fully justified. I’m going to have to look into this further so I actually have some idea what I’m talking about.

I’m one of those people you’re referring to who is disappointed in the modern direction that Pokemon has taken but I can say definitively, this is not what I want Pokemon to be. The problems with Pokemon aren’t that there aren’t enough guns. Excluding all the potential theft, this game just looks like a dumb fun meme game that could be fun for a month or so, kind of like Goat Simulator.

 

[Sucumbio]

Your check’s in the mail, I assume.

Lol! Nah I wish tho, 5 millon sales at 25 bucks a piece plus Xbox live subs it's insane these guys all just become overnight millionaires and didn't even need an original idea just take the funnest parts of existing ideas and mash them together. I guess we'll see what kind of impact this game has on Pokemon's future but at the very least they should read the room and realize that if a "lazy" game like Palworld is that much more fun imagine what they could accomplish if they actually tried.

If the allegations are true that they are literally stealing other people’s fan arts in order to profit off them, I think the hate is fully justified. I’m going to have to look into this further so I actually have some idea what I’m talking about.



I’m one of those people you’re referring to who is disappointed in the modern direction that Pokemon has taken but I can say definitively, this is not what I want Pokemon to be. The problems with Pokemon aren’t that there aren’t enough guns.

There's zero evidence this happened. Like someone said AI can't even do that. What it can do is make an image based on cues from existing images. Well that's literally what humans do. We see the sun for the first time and learn "circle" etc. it was even said the devs were getting mad that AI was making "better" ideas than they could do lol!

 

[fogbadge]

Pokemon doesn't have guns

you've never seen the legend of dratini have you? or remoraid, or dragapault

I guess we'll see what kind of impact this game has on Pokemon's future but at the very least they should read the room and realize that if a "lazy" game like Palworld is that much more fun imagine what they could accomplish if they actually tried.

fun is subjective. and this thing isn't making the same amount as pokemon

 

[Gengar84]

Lol! Nah I wish tho, 5 millon sales at 25 bucks a piece plus Xbox live subs it's insane these guys all just become overnight millionaires and didn't even need an original idea just take the funnest parts of existing ideas and mash them together. I guess we'll see what kind of impact this game has on Pokemon's future but at the very least they should read the room and realize that if a "lazy" game like Palworld is that much more fun imagine what they could accomplish if they actually tried.



There's zero evidence this happened. Like someone said AI can't even do that. What it can do is make an image based on cues from existing images. Well that's literally what humans do. We see the sun for the first time and learn "circle" etc. it was even said the devs were getting mad that AI was making "better" ideas than they could do lol!

Art and copyright theft has been a thing long before AI. I don’t know for sure if that’s what’s been happening here but you don’t need AI to steal someone’s IP.

 

[AlRex]

Bootleg Pokémon game that has guns in it isn’t even anything new, really.

Pokemon Diamond (GBC) - Gameplay

This is actually a boot-leg of Keitai Denjuu Telefang, very crudely translated to the point they ripped out code and created game breaking bugs and save issu...

youtube.com

 

[Sucumbio]

you've never seen the legend of dratini have you? or remoraid, or dragapault

No! Are these official Pokemon licensed spin offs? I remember an unofficial FPS where you shoot Pikachus everywhere... Though personally at the time I didn't want to play it... Seemed wrong. Still does really....

fun is subjective. and this thing isn't making the same amount as pokemon

Fun is definitely subjective and 5 million+ people have all agreed that Palworld is. But to make as much as Pokemon (billions) they'd prolly have to be out for more than 3 days and have 20+ installments. I can't really compare the two sales wise Palworld is still in open test.

 

[Gengar84]

No! Are these official Pokemon licensed spin offs? I remember an unofficial FPS where you shoot Pikachus everywhere... Though personally at the time I didn't want to play it... Seemed wrong. Still does really....



Fun is definitely subjective and 5 million+ people have all agreed that Palworld is. But to make as much as Pokemon (billions) they'd prolly have to be out for more than 3 days and have 20+ installments. I can't really compare the two sales wise Palworld is still in open test.

Remoraid and Dragapault are official Pokemon whose designs were based on guns in some way. Remoraid is based on an actual gun and Dragapault is based on a fighter jet who shoots its babies from its head like missiles. I’m assuming the Legend of Dratini was the Safari Zone episode of the anime that was banned in the US because James threatened someone with a gun.

Either way, guns aren’t what Pokémon needs. What it needs is a bigger development team and more time to make it. The battle gameplay should stay roughly the same but the graphics and technical issues need an overhaul. The world needs to be engaging and fun to explore with a good story that lets you connect to the characters. Finally, there needs to be something fun you can do to battle with your fully raised Pokemon offline like the Battle Frontier. Getting the full dex back would be nice too. S/V was a big step up from S/S but there’s still a long way to go.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I'm going to be brutally honest.

This Pokemon vs Palworld nonsense is people for 2 days+ going to war over 2 sides of the coin of mediocrity, taking moral grounds on whatever preferable being anti-ai/anti-corporation/whatever.

I really don't care if Palworld is "sticking to man" to GameFreak. When your biggest appeal is a RIP-oh I meant "parodying" a franchise knowing for diminishing returns & stagancy then there is no leg to stand on. It's clear it was be a cheap attempt to cash-in on popular trends.

Who's more foolish? the fool or the one who follow the former. Idk why people are propping this argument as if there aren't vasty better games out there in the same genre.

Getting tired on seeing this topic everywhere i go, Can we please move on?

 

[Gorgonzales]

So no to Palworld?

Why is Palworld even worth bringing up? Why don't we just discuss every flavor-of-the-week hit game that's currently relevant?

I love Lethal Company, it's super fun with friends and I've put a lot of hours into it, but I don't bother bringing it up for Smash discussion because I really don't know what kind of staying power it'll have, if any. I really think Palworld, a fellow recent early access title, should stay the same in terms of discussing it. For goodness sake, the game was just released. For all we know, all the hype surrounding the game could die out within the next week.

I don't know, man. It's like, trying to discuss if Flappy Bird could potentially get any representation back in Smash 4's speculation era, and that game literally does not exist on the market anymore after its few months or so of being on the app store.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm going to be brutally honest.

This Pokemon vs Palworld nonsense is people for 2 days+ going to war over 2 sides of the coin of mediocrity, taking moral grounds on whatever preferable being anti-ai/anti-corporation/whatever.

I really don't care if Palworld is "sticking to man" to GameFreak. When your biggest appeal is a RIP-oh I meant "parodying" a franchise knowing for diminishing returns & stagancy then there is no leg to stand on. It's clear it was be a cheap attempt to cash-in on popular trends.

Who's the more foolish, the fool or the one who follow the former? Idk why people are propping this argument as if there aren't vasty better games out there in the same genre.

Getting tired on seeing this topic everywhere i go, Can we please move on?

I’ve tried to move the conversation but I don’t think anyone is interested in the topics I bring up. If anyone has any thoughts on Octopath, summoner/tamer characters, or Borderlands in Smash, I’d be glad to talk about those.

 

[fogbadge]

No! Are these official Pokemon licensed spin offs? I remember an unofficial FPS where you shoot Pikachus everywhere... Though personally at the time I didn't want to play it... Seemed wrong. Still does really....



Fun is definitely subjective and 5 million+ people have all agreed that Palworld is. But to make as much as Pokemon (billions) they'd prolly have to be out for more than 3 days and have 20+ installments. I can't really compare the two sales wise Palworld is still in open test.

legend of dratini is an anime episode with guns. The latter two are Pokemon with gun theming.

five million people bought it. doesn’t mean they all liked it.

also has anyone else noticed that palworld is clearly targeting a different audience? on the one hand a third person shooter with shock humour. on the other hand a simplistic rpg aimed at kids. the idea that Pokemon should take notes from this sounds to me the same as whenever someone calls a platform fighter a smash killer.

if Pokemon ain’t talking notes from, yo-kai watch, digimon, monster hunter stories, world of final fantasy, dragon quest monsters, shin megami, persona or indeed any of the others, why on earth would they take notes from the new guy?

I’ve tried to move the conversation but I don’t think anyone is interested in the topics I bring up. If anyone has any thoughts on Octopath, summoner/tamer characters, or Borderlands in Smash, I’d be glad to talk about those.

I’d happily talk about another code but no one else seems to have bought it

Also it was the safari park warden not James

 

[Gengar84]

legend of dratini is an anime episode with guns. The latter two are Pokemon with gun theming.

five million people bought it. doesn’t mean they all liked it.

also has anyone else noticed that palworld is clearly targeting a different audience? on the one hand a third person shooter with shock humour. on the other hand a simplistic rpg aimed at kids. the idea that Pokemon should take notes from this sounds to me the same as whenever someone calls a platform fighter a smash killer.

if Pokemon ain’t talking notes from, yo-kai watch, digimon, monster hunter stories, world of final fantasy, dragon quest monsters, shin megami, persona or indeed any of the others, why on earth would they take notes from the new guy?




I’d happily talk about another code but no one else seems to have bought it

Also it was the safari park warden not James

It was also James threatening the park warden.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Need a new topic?

Alright.

It was James threatening the park warden.

View attachment 383346

Ladies, ladies, you're both right.

The warden (and several others) pointed guns at Ash and James as above held the warden at gunpoint.

 

[ARandomFruit]

I’ve tried to move the conversation but I don’t think anyone is interested in the topics I bring up. If anyone has any thoughts on Octopath, summoner/tamer characters, or Borderlands in Smash, I’d be glad to talk about those.

Borderlands would be nice in Smash but I'm not sure what character they would go for. If it was my choice I would either want Zer0 or Lilith. Handsome Jack would also be good.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

...Welp. I'm sorry I brought up Palworld.

 

[Gengar84]

Borderlands would be nice in Smash but I'm not sure what character they would go for. If it was my choice I would either want Zer0 or Lilith. Handsome Jack would also be good.

My personal favorite character is Gaige but I also had a lot of fun playing Kreig and Moze. I think there are a lot of great options to choose from. My brother played as Zer0 in our playthrough so he’d be fun too. I would guess that either Lilith or Jack are the most likely.

...Welp. I'm sorry I brought up Palworld.

No worries. I made the same mistake a while back bringing up a character I thought would be a fun retro addition before I knew about all the controversy surrounding his creator. We all agreed never to speak of him again so he shall go unnamed.

 

[Speed Weed]

Okay guys, change of topic

Cho Aniki in Smash. Discuss

 

[fogbadge]

Okay guys, change of topic
View attachment 383348
Cho Aniki in Smash. Discuss

if we’re going to have any character dressed like that it should be cortez from time splitters in his mr universe outfit from future perfect

 

[Noipoi]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

 

[HyperSomari64]

1980s
1990s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

70s

Edit: I didn't read.

1980s: Ryu Hayabusa
1990s: Crash Bandicoot
2000s: Sceptile
2010s: a character from the Hyperdimension Neptunia series

 

[AlRex]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

Centipede
Scorpion (Mortal Kombat)
Quote (Cave Story)
Jonesy (Fortnite)

I could think of way too many, though, TBH honest.

 

[Perkilator]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

• 80’s: Sir Arthur
• 90’s: Rayman
• 2000’s: Estelle Bright
• 2010’s: Magolor

Honorable mention goes to BWD as while he was created in 1996 (he was one of the Megaton Punch opponents in Super Star), his rise to prominence didn’t start until Return to Dream Land in 2011.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Changing of topic, can we talk about the Golden Age of Spanish Video Games? I can see some contenders here and there. (A stage of Bugaboo/La Pulga in it's ZX Spectrum beauty)

It helps that one of these companies (ERBE Software) helped in the distribution of the Super NES and Game Boy on Spain.

 

[fogbadge]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

Toad
Tails
Chibi-Robo
Rex

 

[Gengar84]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

80’s - Bill Rizer/Lance Bean (Contra)
90’s - Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads)
00’s - Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)
10’s - H’aanit (Octopath Traveller)

There’s too many characters I really want and it was really hard to leave a lot of my favorites out but here’s what I’m thinking at the moment.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, sorry not sorry, I'm not letting this go.

There's zero evidence this happened. Like someone said AI can't even do that. What it can do is make an image based on cues from existing images. Well that's literally what humans do. We see the sun for the first time and learn "circle" etc. it was even said the devs were getting mad that AI was making "better" ideas than they could do lol!

Organic inspiration done by actual artists is natural. That's not what AI "artists" (read: talentless hacks) do. They put a bunch of key words into a machine and it spews out a garbled mystery meat product made up of bits and pieces of hundreds of stolen pieces of art, none of which were sourced with the original artists' consent.

AI doesn't "learn." It replicates, and often poorly. Hell, very recently one of the garbage AI prompt providers (I think it was midjourney) literally admitted that their business model cannot work without copyright infringement and immorally sourced images.

Don't spew the same flowery garbage as the AI frauds: at the end of the day, this is regurgitation, not inspiration.

 

[Gorgonzales]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

80s: Tetris
90s: Rayman
2000's: Crazy Dave
2010s: Nabbit

 

[Swamp Sensei]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

Takamaru
Gengar
Lloyd Irving
Bandana Waddle Dee (first named appearance)
If BWD doesn't count, then Dillon.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

Takamaru
Chun-Li
Dante
Sans

 

[DarthEnderX]

Would it still make sense to give Psaro monster summoning abilities if he was more based on his Dragon Quest IV incarnation?

Not really. He had minions during DQ4's story, but none that fought alongside him in battle.

Not sure if DQIV had a monster catching system.

Nope. It was introduced in DQ5. Although DQ4 did have a few monster party members, they were tied to the story, not captured through gameplay.

My first Dragon Quest was VIII and I really enjoyed that aspect of it.

Hmm. I don't remember DQ8 having a monster catching mechanic. Because they spun the mechanic off into it's own series with DQM, most of the mainline DQ games don't have it.

Why don't we just discuss every flavor-of-the-week hit game that's currently relevant?

Uh, we do.

 

[Ivander]

.....remember when games used to be about having fun? And quite honestly, I hope for most people sake that "AI cannot learn, only copy." and "AI cannot do art without copyright infringement." do not eventually become those quotes that age horribly.

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

Takamaru
Dr. Eggman
Shantae
Elma (Xenoblade X)

 

[DarthEnderX]

80s
90s
2000s
2010s

Pick a character from each of these decades for the next Smash.

80s: Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
90s: SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
2000s: Kazuma Kiryu [Like A Dragon]
2010s: Uhh...hmm...checks google...Shovel Knight [Shovel Knight]

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah, sorry not sorry, I'm not letting this go.

Organic inspiration done by actual artists is natural. That's not what AI "artists" (read: talentless hacks) do. They put a bunch of key words into a machine and it spews out a garbled mystery meat product made up of bits and pieces of hundreds of stolen pieces of art, none of which were sourced with the original artists' consent.

AI doesn't "learn." It replicates, and often poorly. Hell, very recently one of the garbage AI prompt providers (I think it was midjourney) literally admitted that their business model cannot work without copyright infringement and immorally sourced images.

Don't spew the same flowery garbage as the AI frauds: at the end of the day, this is regurgitation, not inspiration.

Interesting... This seems to be more about there being value in... True inspiration? Verses... Uh commanded inspiration? I had a vision one morning of Jesus standing in a street and weeping, a flower growing where it puddled... She was cutting hair and the vision had been in my mind for about an hour , I'm maybe 6 or whatever.. anyway I started DEMANDING she draw it before the image faded forever and her being a professional artist meant it was worth a shot, I mean her rendition of a bust of Bach in a classroom looked really real! She drew it it was perfect.... I was inspired. I used the tools . That vision was manifest. That's not what Palworld is. Palworld is a wonderland of hilarity and a successful cash grab. But name no mistake "AI" is going to help a lot of people manifest their creativity because not every one is a "true" artist but everyone has an artistic flair once in their lives.