Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

I think its fine. Byketh can use any weapon type, a thing i tthink they only did in FE knowing he would have just been called a Mart clone in smash if they didnt

sure he can use any weapon but he can’t use those weapons

 

[SuperSmashBoy1999]

Mario Characters Who Could Be in the Next Smash
• Waluigi
• Toad
• Paper Mario
• Goomba
• Koopa Troopa
• King Boo
• Toadette
• Captain Toad

 

[Schnee117]

sure he can use any weapon but he can’t use those weapons

Byleth can, they just can't use their combat arts or all three at the same time.

 

[fogbadge]

Byleth can, they just can't use their combat arts or all three at the same time.

so it’s still wrong

 

[Sucumbio]

My Byleth usually ends up using a Levin Sword lol. Imagine if they'd made a triple character like PT but with no transition gimmick so you can only choose at the CSS and that was all 3 house leaders.

 

[dream1ng]

so it’s still wrong

Since the original regular Mario/Luigi could throw fireballs, adult OoT Link used a boomerang, Kirby could only jump a finite number of times, Puff's rest damages instead of heals, Ness straight up uses moves that aren't his, etc. We roll with the fact these are adaptations of characters made to fit Smash, which sometimes results in composite character behavior and other liberties.

 

[fogbadge]

Since the original regular Mario/Luigi could throw fireballs, adult OoT Link used a boomerang, Kirby could only jump a finite number of times, Puff's rest damages instead of heals, Ness straight up uses moves that aren't his, etc. We roll with the fact these are adaptations of characters made to fit Smash, which sometimes results in composite character behavior and other liberties.

but this isn't creative liberty. this is giving him extra weapons purely cause you listened to the "too many swords" crowd

 

[Swamp Sensei]

but this isn't creative liberty. this is giving him extra weapons purely cause you listened to the "too many swords" crowd

My dude.

Regardless of the reason, that is still creative liberty.

 

[dream1ng]

but this isn't creative liberty. this is giving him extra weapons purely cause you listened to the "too many swords" crowd

Buddy, Inkling uses the Splattershot, the Splat Roller, the Slosher, Blaster and Inkbrush in her moveset, interchangeably. You can't do that in-game. This is precisely creative liberty.

 

[fogbadge]

My dude.

Regardless of the reason, that is still creative liberty.

Buddy, Inkling uses the Splattershot, the Splat Roller, the Slosher, Blaster and Inkbrush in her moveset, interchangeably. You can't do that in-game. This is precisely creative liberty.

my word you try to make one criticism of a non clone's moveset in this place and people feel the need to tell you no

 

[Geno Boost]

just saw this
Spiritomb mod over

honestly i never thought of clone besides Chomper from plant vs zombie but Spiritomb works so well
are there any other character that you think could fit being clone?

 

[Soy_Man]

my word you try to make one criticism of a non clone's moveset in this place and people feel the need to tell you no

It wouldn't be a discussion page if everyone agreed with you all the time and never questioned your reasoning.

 

[fogbadge]

It wouldn't be a discussion page if everyone agreed with you all the time and never questioned your reasoning.

funny I thought that’s what they were wanting me to do

its not much of a discussion if it’s just “hey it’s used here as well”

 

[Soy_Man]

its not much of a discussion if it’s just “hey it’s used here as well”

That makes no sense. Why would someone expressing disagreement with your stance make it less of a discussion? It would do the opposite because they're adding to the conversation by giving their perspective. Do I really have to explain this?

 

[Gengar84]

just saw this
Spiritomb mod over

honestly i never thought of clone besides Chomper from plant vs zombie but Spiritomb works so well
are there any other character that you think could fit being clone?

Yeah, that was on my list of mods I eventually wanted to make but someone else beat me to it. Spiritomb makes a lot of sense with its relic serving as the pot and a big separated head. I’m looking forward to trying this one out. The only Pokémon mod I’ve made in Ultimate so far is Lickitung over Yoshi but I’m hoping to make several others.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, that was on my list of mods I eventually wanted to make but someone else beat me to it. Spiritomb makes a lot of sense with its relic serving as the pot and a big separated head. I’m looking forward to trying this one out. The only Pokémon mod I’ve made in Ultimate so far is Lickitung over Yoshi but I’m hoping to make several others.

Oooh, this should be fun.

What are your list of mods and what are your list of intended plans?

 

[Sucumbio]

Alucard would fit over Sephiroth nicely imo. Like his octoslash can be a shorter one for Alucard with the crissaegrim and mid the hold b for different spells from SotN, and shorten the blade to be his family heirloom, hmm give him a shield and bat transform like when wing is out ... and down b can be gas cloud counter and hmm needs some wolf in there

 

[Guynamednelson]

Alucard would fit over Sephiroth nicely imo. Like his octoslash can be a shorter one for Alucard with the crissaegrim and mid the hold b for different spells from SotN, and shorten the blade to be his family heirloom, hmm give him a shield and bat transform like when wing is out ... and down b can be gas cloud counter and hmm needs some wolf in there

You don't need a reskin for him.

 

[dream1ng]

just saw this
Spiritomb mod over

honestly i never thought of clone besides Chomper from plant vs zombie but Spiritomb works so well
are there any other character that you think could fit being clone?

That's very creative; that skin never would've occurred to me, but as far as mods go, it's actually a pretty good fit for a character so idiosyncratic.

 

[Gengar84]

Oooh, this should be fun.

What are your list of mods and what are your list of intended plans?

I have a ton planned but so far I’ve made The Rock over Captain Falcon, Lickitung over Yoshi, Sub-Zero and alts of 7 other MK ninjas over Ryu, Bill Rizer and Lance Bean over Samus, Zitz and Pimple over Captain Falcon and I’m currently working on a Leonardo over Dark Pit. I’m still learning the basics of importing so some of the rigs aren’t completely perfect but I’m pretty happy with what I was able to manage so far. Hopefully I’ll continue to improve as I make more and learn.

I also made a ton of voice mods

Here’s a list of some of the other ideas I’m hoping to make at some point:

Spoiler

Magus over Sephiroth
Zegram over Ike
Fulgore over Kazuya
Illidan over Kazuya
Stone Cold over Kazuya
Scar (FMA) over Kazuya
Roy Mustang over Sephiroth
Renji over Byleth
Raziel over Corrin
Kain over Ganondorf
Velvet Crowe over Corrin
Zaveid over Terry
The Shredder over Kazuya
Rocksteady and Bebop over Bowser
Slash over Bowser
Ray Fillet over Incineroar
The Rat King over Ganondorf
Krang over Dark Samus
Raphael over Incineroar
Michelangelo over Ken or Terry
Donatello over Richter
Splinter over Lucario
Casey Jones over Byleth
April over Zero Suit Samus
Cyrax, Sektor, and Smoke over Samus
Kitana, Mileena, and Jade over ???
Barret over Samus
Kerrigan over Dark Samus
Vincent Valentine over Joker
Black Orchid over Bayonetta
Glacius over Corrin or Greninja
Sabrewulf over Ridley
Politoed over Yoshi
Golisopod over Bowser
Spinal over Hero
Balrog over Little Mac
Blanka over Donkey Kong
TJ Combo over Little Mac
Vi over Little Mac
Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior over Incineroar
Kabutops over Greninja
Electabuzz over Incineroar
Pharaoh Man over Dark Samus
Astaroth over Ganondorf
Death over Ganondorf
Garrosh Hellscream over Ganondorf
Arthas/Lich King over Ike
Diablos over Mewtwo
Diablo over Ridley
Ifrit over Ridley
Lulu over Robin
Gan Ning over Roy
Zeratul over Mewtwo
Cofagrigus over Mewtwo
Deoxys over Mewtwo

Not sure if I’ll get around to doing all these and there’s probably a lot more I’ll think of besides these but that’s what I’m thinking at the moment.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I have a ton planned but so far I’ve made The Rock over Captain Falcon, Lickitung over Yoshi, Sub-Zero and alts of 7 other MK ninjas over Ryu, Bill Rizer and Lance Bean over Samus, Zitz and Pimple over Captain Falcon and I’m currently working on a Leonardo over Dark Pit. I’m still learning the basics of importing so some of the rigs aren’t completely perfect but I’m pretty happy with what I was able to manage so far. Hopefully I’ll continue to improve as I make more and learn.

I also made a ton of voice mods

Here’s a list of some of the other ideas I’m hoping to make at some point:

Spoiler

Magus over Sephiroth
Zegram over Ike
Fulgore over Kazuya
Illidan over Kazuya
Stone Cold over Kazuya
Scar (FMA) over Kazuya
Roy Mustang over Sephiroth
Renji over Byleth
Raziel over Corrin
Kain over Ganondorf
Velvet Crowe over Corrin
Zaveid over Terry
The Shredder over Kazuya
Rocksteady and Bebop over Bowser
Slash over Bowser
Ray Fillet over Incineroar
The Rat King over Ganondorf
Krang over Dark Samus
Raphael over Incineroar
Michelangelo over Ken or Terry
Donatello over Richter
Splinter over Lucario
Casey Jones over Byleth
April over Zero Suit Samus
Cyrax, Sektor, and Smoke over Samus
Kitana, Mileena, and Jade over ???
Barret over Samus
Kerrigan over Dark Samus
Vincent Valentine over Joker
Black Orchid over Bayonetta
Glacius over Corrin or Greninja
Sabrewulf over Ridley
Politoed over Yoshi
Golisopod over Bowser
Spinal over Hero
Balrog over Little Mac
Blanka over Donkey Kong
TJ Combo over Little Mac
Vi over Little Mac
Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior over Incineroar
Kabutops over Greninja
Electabuzz over Incineroar
Pharaoh Man over Dark Samus
Astaroth over Ganondorf
Death over Ganondorf
Garrosh Hellscream over Ganondorf
Arthas/Lich King over Ike
Diablos over Mewtwo
Diablo over Ridley
Ifrit over Ridley
Lulu over Robin
Gan Ning over Roy
Zeratul over Mewtwo
Cofagrigus over Mewtwo
Deoxys over Mewtwo

Not sure if I’ll get around to doing all these and there’s probably a lot more I’ll think of besides these but that’s what I’m thinking at the moment.

Someday I hope for a good model so one can put Brian over Ness(or Lucas). ...Bar in Smash 64, anyway.

Those sound awesome. If only for, say, Fulgore alone~

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm in the non weapon triangle Byleth camp as well tbh. It feels like their moveset was tailor made to both over correct on common FE character criticisms, while attempting to squeeze the other main 3 into one moveset. I'm still glad Byleth got in but a more focused moveset based on the Sword of the Creator (plus some combat arts and magic) would have been nice to see. Either that or just settling on 1 of the house leaders.

 

[Jave]

On the topic of FE in Smash I definitely think Alear feels like a good pick since the moveset potential is really good. Probably more so than any other FE character. They could do a rotational moveset where Alear switches between three different Emblem characters that alter their moves and weapons. For the Final Smash they could summon another character (likely Veyle) to fusion with Alear as the 13th Emblem and do Bond Blast together.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Alear would be such a mid character pick.

Their character is...fine I guess. Not offensively bad like some avatars but not terribly interesting either. Their design is really divisive. And like...FE Engage just didn't have a lot of staying power. It just came and went. From my understanding its sales kind of reflected that with a strong opening weekend before falling off pretty quickly.

Even the Engage mechanic doesn't seem that interesting. It's not like we haven't seen stance fighters () or burst mechanics () before. And I'm sure you could still find ways to make Alear unique sure but it almost feels like they get discussed because a new FE rep is treated like an obligation.

They're also a fake dragon and I will never forgive them for that seriously IS you can't just call a character a literal dragon and then never have them transform into a dragon no the Tiki Emblem doesn't count I want my money back

 

[cashregister9]

So for Fire Emblem my most wanted is A!Tiki, she is my favorite character and a proper Manakete would be fun to play as

But I really want an Engage rep. Sommie would be the funniest choice and also legitimately a fun choice IMO, They could even take some of Alear's abilities for a moveset.

Now for Alear, I think you can make them completely distinct, not only with the Emblem Summoning but also the fact that they also use fists in addition to the Sword. so having Alear be a Brawler with a few Sword moves or vice-versa is totally a valid interpretation (Maybe also get Sommie in there, somewhere)

Actually I think I might just have a Bias here as the 3 characters I mentioned are from my 2 favorite Fire Emblems

 

[ZephyrZ]

Actually ya know what I'd be cool with an Engage rep but it has to be this man.

I won't take any other options.

I want to see the Smash fandom have a melt down.

 

[Mamboo07]

Either that or just settling on 1 of the house leaders.

I remember some people thought of them being like Pokemon Trainer where you swap between the three leaders.

 

[dream1ng]

I'm pretty ambivalent on Alear. On one hand, the character has an interesting mechanic as far as FE characters in Smash go, and would look and function fairly uniquely from what's there. On the other, I'm just kinda tired of FE characters. It's not that I have some series vendetta, or that I think they all play the same, but thematically it's very well-worn ground at this point, especially when the series does have a lot more than nimble swordsmen.

I don't hate Alear or anything, the character is distinct enough comparatively, I'm just not particularly interested. It seems perfunctory. It feels like if we just kept getting the same Pokemon type. Yeah some might be dual-type, and they wouldn't play the same, but... after a while I'm... over it. There's just so much more out there. At least Lyn would be for the fans.

It's that there are a whole lot of candidates from other series (or even within FE) who spark my interest more, and bring more to the table in terms of novel theming, genre, weaponry, aesthetic, series, so on and so forth. Alear is fine - we could've definitely been given a much more same-y MC (and potentially still might, given Engage won't stay the most recent forever), they're just more an "alright let's get them out of the way" kinda pick to me.

For similar reasons I also would've preferred any of the three house leaders to Byleth. I appreciate Sakurai aiming to make the character not just another sword-wielding FE character, but I find the character itself kinda, well... Byleth is basically cardboard. Any of the house leaders may have been restricted to their one weapon, but apart from that weapon having far less usage in Smash, as characters there's just... more there. Imo, at least.

 

[fogbadge]

That makes no sense. Why would someone expressing disagreement with your stance make it less of a discussion? It would do the opposite because they're adding to the conversation by giving their perspective. Do I really have to explain this?

simple it's the way it's phrased. in this cause it sounded like they were trying to shut me down by invalidating my opinion rather than opening it up to further discussion

 

[ceterisparibus]

Besides seeing the tenth "can we cut specific characters but not my fav" discussion I do find it extremely funny how a not insignificant number of people are suggesting they cut a character with a completely unique toolset (that showcases a part of the franchise) while pushing for another swordsman (or woman, in this case!). I think you can push for your favs without asking for random cuts in an era of smash ultimate.
Anyway while i highly doubt alear can make it for a mix of reasons (since a mainline game is probably in the works), she stands out much more differently compared to any other FE character and can be very different in terms of toolkits, which sakurai has emphasized as selling points previously. If they had to buffer the roster she's not necessarily a bad pick, especially when we don't exactly have any hugely pushed for characters? We could easily skip that franchise for newcomers, if you think about it.

Incidentally, Arvis makes for a pretty decent villain rep as far as FE goes.

Putting aside how the whole can of worms he brings, i really don't get the need for villains in general. Like, did people think ridley/k rool/dark samus were included for the sake of villains? I want sephiroth because he's a hugely iconic presence in his own right, not because he fills some arbitrary quota.
Same goes for BK, especially since he doesn't fit the echo concept for ike nor does the latter bring anything unique (robin already throws fire magic around).

He's definitely popular among those who've played/watched through Genealogy, but he probably won't reach major popularity until a remake of Genealogy that is released worldwide happens.

This is not exactly an argument given how the latter is mostly memed with

Spoiler

fire jokes

nor has any FE villain really stood the test of time compared to MCs and popular side characters (caeda, camilla, lysithea, mia).

 

[Speed Weed]

Alear to me is the point where it would genuinely start to feel like adding more Fire Emblem for the sake of adding more Fire Emblem

 

[Perkilator]

Gonna quote what I said a few pages ago

Honestly, my idea for Alear is for them to be based on their appearance as the 13th Emblem, since they can Engage with any unit in the game (ergo, they can enlist the help of their friends for their special moves).

 

[Geno Boost]

Zero wing has made it into Nintendo console finally

in other words CATS from zero wing first appearance on Nintendo console now make him possible smash candidate lol
also more official artwork of him

 

[CannonStreak]

Zero wing has made it into Nintendo console finally

in other words CATS from zero wing first appearance on Nintendo console now make him possible smash candidate lol
also more official artwork of him

If he joins Smash, what that means for him and any army he may have is that all Smash’s base are belong to them.

 

[dream1ng]

Besides seeing the tenth "can we cut specific characters but not my fav" discussion I do find it extremely funny how a not insignificant number of people are suggesting they cut a character with a completely unique toolset (that showcases a part of the franchise) while pushing for another swordsman (or woman, in this case!). I think you can push for your favs without asking for random cuts in an era of smash ultimate.

Smash Ultimate is over, we're in the era where the next game may start again and, on that basis, have a lot of cuts, therefore justifying why people would speculate and anticipate them. It's certainly not fuelled simply by bias. Once there are cuts, there will be completely unique characters cut, and there will be new swordie(s) added. Because this is Smash and we're not getting a roster without at least one new one. Both of those things are gonna happen.

Both of those things are probably going to happen just in the FE portion alone. There's no way FE retains all its characters once the roster rebuilds, and it would be incredibly unwise to bet against getting a new FE character. Now, that character may not be a swordie, but chances are good it will be.

Zero wing has made it into Nintendo console finally

in other words CATS from zero wing first appearance on Nintendo console now make him possible smash candidate lol
also more official artwork of him

Zero Wing has been on NSO for a while as one of the Genesis games.

 

[Stratos]

Many of us are waiting for a new Donkey Kong game after Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze on Switch or at least on Nintendo's new console. I was thinking that the new enemies that Donkey Kong and his friends might face in this new game would be based on Australian animals. These enemies I was also thinking of being a mercenary faction and their leader being a Komodo dragon. This of course with the enemies being based on Australian animals and being a mercenary faction, this thought I was inspired by the character of the Mortal Kombat franchise Kano and his faction Black Dragon and to be precise from the animation film Mortal Kombat Kombat Legends: Snow Blind.

 

[dream1ng]

Many of us are waiting for a new Donkey Kong game after Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze on Switch or at least on Nintendo's new console. I was thinking that the new enemies that Donkey Kong and his friends might face in this new game would be based on Australian animals. These enemies I was also thinking of being a mercenary faction and their leader being a Komodo dragon. This of course with the enemies being based on Australian animals and being a mercenary faction, this thought I was inspired by the character of the Mortal Kombat franchise Kano and his faction Black Dragon and to be precise from the animation film Mortal Kombat Kombat Legends: Snow Blind.

Y'know there was a real chance something like this could've happened with that cancelled DK game Vicarious Visions were making. Maybe even had a Crash cameo. One of the bigger bummers of known games that fell through.

 

[ceterisparibus]

Smash Ultimate is over, we're in the era where the next game may start again and, on that basis, have a lot of cuts, therefore justifying why people would speculate and anticipate them. It's certainly not fuelled simply by bias. Once there are cuts, there will be completely unique characters cut, and there will be new swordie(s) added. Because this is Smash and we're not getting a roster without at least one new one. Both of those things are gonna happen.

Both of those things are probably going to happen just in the FE portion alone. There's no way FE retains all its characters once the roster rebuilds, and it would be incredibly unwise to bet against getting a new FE character. Now, that character may not be a swordie, but chances are good it will be.

On what basis? Smash has always been very conservative with cuts (as per stated by sakurai on how much he dislikes removing characters without good reason), and it only falls down to a couple of reasons -
1. 3rd party issues. Snake was hit in smash 4
2. system limitations with the 3ds. ICs were cut and Pokemon trainer was gutted because of that
3. Production time limitations and priorities - it prevented Wolf/Pichu/young link/roy from returning in brawl and then Lucas in smash 4.

Unless nintendo loses their mind and downgrades from the switch for no good reason, point 2 is bust. And the thing about 3 is that they took a risk and brought everyone back. They ended up selling 30 million copies and now you're arguing that they're going to cut stuff for the sake of doing so?? Is it worth cutting one-third of the roster so that we get brand new graphics??? Especially when those cuts happened to clones, none of which were actual unique characters.

It's also really funny how you forgot that for the 3rd reason - the "cuts" came from Mother/Pokemon/Zelda/FE in brawl and then star fox. And the hilarious thing is that roy was literally worked on for brawl (in the datamined content) and then returned asap in smash 4 dlc. So tell me why FE keeps being brought up all the time. Shall we talk about Pokemon given Pichu and jiggs (almost cut in brawl) precarious position? Or how squirtle and ivysaur were just removed completely instead of being separated? The former isn't really a great point given how its moreso of a 2nd reason, but since we're on that subject it shows nintendo and sakurai's priorities in these ~cut talks~.

 

[Will]

Zero wing has made it into Nintendo console finally

in other words CATS from zero wing first appearance on Nintendo console now make him possible smash candidate lol
also more official artwork of him

Honestly CATS would be a cool ****ing stage to have at least have a CATS Assist Trophy. I want more shooters like this referenced in Smash. Somehow.

 

[Jave]

My prediction for the next Smash is the same one I had for Ultimate before it was revealed.

Barring any 3rd party legalities, no characters are getting cut.