chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Should I bring up how Engage more-or-less confirms FEH is canon?
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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread
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It always has been. Fire Emblem explicitly uses the multiverse approach for its lore. Everything is canon.
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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I know that, but you know how people can be with mobile spinoff games...
MasterCheef
Smash Ace
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hmm getting more interesting. things could be heating up this year.
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Huge Switch 2 Event In June? Rumor
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Um, I don't know. I am not sure if videos like this one are even reliable.hmm getting more interesting. things could be heating up this year.
Huge Switch 2 Event In June? Rumor
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what if many of the same people who don't want Heroes to be canon also don't want Engage's story to be canon?
KillerCage
Smash Master
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This sounds like Blocked Content levels of fake information.hmm getting more interesting. things could be heating up this year.
Huge Switch 2 Event In June? Rumor
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chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Well Engage is a mainline title, so... sucks to be them, I guess?
IDK, how am I supposed to answer that?
MasterCheef
Smash Ace
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what do you all think ?
TotK ; Ganondorf
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TotK ; Ganondorf
NEW LOOK at Ganondorf in Tears of the Kingdom! (Oh no, he's hot!)
Ganondorf gets a NEW render for The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom! Source: https://twitter.com/Micromania_Fr/status/1647929879105769473?s=20 #zelda #...
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You don't have to answer it as it was mostly a (bad) joke. About how people hate on Engage's story and/or the way it draws on FE Heroes thematically and mechanically.
dream1ng
Smash Lord
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I don't think Toon Link is a staple. I think they could replace him with that guy in your pfp and people would get over it pretty quick. Also after Brawl TL was not one of the characters considered a safe return. Meanwhile it was pretty unquestioned that Link, Zelda and Ganondorf would return.
Frankly I don't think any one incarnation of Link is a staple. I think the closest is some version of an 'adult Link' being a staple, since that is who Smash defines as 'Link'. But because of that definition, the "main Link" is basically every Link that isn't specified as their own Link (being YL and TL). He's been OoT Link, he's been TP Link, he's been BotW Link, and he's all the others too, since they're all "Link". TL is only one version, and, like I said, I don't think any one version is a staple.
I mean, TL didn't show up in Hyrule Warriors until after the 3DS version came out. Imagine if that game didn't have Link, Zelda and Ganon/dorf in base.
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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Playing through the first Battle network in the Legacy collection reminds me of how salty i am that Battle Network has no music in the game.
At least shoulda put Numberman's stage theme in there.
At least shoulda put Numberman's stage theme in there.
To add my own 2 cents on FE Heroes...
Honestly the concept of a game bringing together all the FE characters from across the series was a pipe dream of mine dating back pretty much to when I first played FE. FE Heroes, controversy over gacha mechanics aside, was as much of a realization of that dream as one could expect (really, it was way beyond anything I could imagine actually happening at one point). In its early days it also became popular in some of my social groups and thus allowed me to talk about FE with people who I never thought would ever have any remote interest in it, which was cool. Seeing people who had barely heard of FE before going nuts over a character as random as Reinhardt was hilarious and beautiful at once. I also appreciate the way Heroes has helped keep the older characters relevant and popular; and I should also mention how amazing some of the art is.
The negatives, however, have grown with time. The game has undergone an insane amount of powercreep, and conjointly with that it has leaned harder on the controversial gacha system and waifu-baiting. It's unfortunate that my feelings would be so mixed on something that is, as I said, just about the closest one could reasonably expect to get to the daydream concept. But yeah, great positives and great negatives with this game.
Honestly the concept of a game bringing together all the FE characters from across the series was a pipe dream of mine dating back pretty much to when I first played FE. FE Heroes, controversy over gacha mechanics aside, was as much of a realization of that dream as one could expect (really, it was way beyond anything I could imagine actually happening at one point). In its early days it also became popular in some of my social groups and thus allowed me to talk about FE with people who I never thought would ever have any remote interest in it, which was cool. Seeing people who had barely heard of FE before going nuts over a character as random as Reinhardt was hilarious and beautiful at once. I also appreciate the way Heroes has helped keep the older characters relevant and popular; and I should also mention how amazing some of the art is.
The negatives, however, have grown with time. The game has undergone an insane amount of powercreep, and conjointly with that it has leaned harder on the controversial gacha system and waifu-baiting. It's unfortunate that my feelings would be so mixed on something that is, as I said, just about the closest one could reasonably expect to get to the daydream concept. But yeah, great positives and great negatives with this game.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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I do. It's his most reused design.
Windwaker, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Four Swords, Triforce Heroes...
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Oracle Link
Smash Master
Okay True honestly i would be fine if they kept a Young Link!
But They have to have some Young link otherwise im dropping Smash!
Speaking of Link here is A costume List I made For Link for Smash Million (Because it feels like i already made a million rosters):
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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Man, i miss Toon Link games.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
Yeah Honestly I Think The Toon Link Amiibo should actually turn TOTK Link into Toon Link That Would be soooo Cool!
Also In general i really want another 3d Young/ Toon Link Game its been ages!
Need the Fire Emblem universe where instead of wars everyone settles their differences with balling.
If he wasn’t considered a safe return after Brawl, why don’t you mention that they revealed him in 4 after they also revealed conductor Link as a background in Spirit Tracks and everyone and their moms took it as a hard deconfirm? Wouldn’t beating the stage hazard allegations set a precedent? He was the Ridley fans’s strongest argument back in the day, outside of not being too big.
also lol imagine being replaced by toy link
dream1ng
Smash Lord
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Not really, though. There's was no spot for it among all the other mainline titles in Engage's base despite all the mainline games otherwise being accounted for. Although it has content in Smash (which, for a mobile game, is very impressive), it's very little, in keeping with spin-off content. Not to mention, TMS also has content in Smash.
They treat it like Pokemon Go, where it's successful enough to cross over into the main series. Doesn't make it mainline.
Canon and mainline aren't synonymous, however.
I mean, Federation Force is canon.
Alright. But he almost didn't make it for Brawl. Back when people were less covetous about character retention he was one of the more speculated cuts, despite being the most reused design then as well. He isn't considered Link in general as the "main" one is, so by virtue of the other Link being every (default) Link that isn't specifically specified, that one has technically recurred more. I mean, Ultimate features BotW Link, but his debut is still considered 1986.
And if Toon Link didn't make it back but instead we got, for example, 'Toy Link', or the newest version of 'child Link', it wouldn't be quite the same as if, for instance, Zelda just up and vanished, would it? Again I say, imagine if HW shipped without Zelda or Ganon/dorf like it did without TL.
So, your opinion is your opinion. But I stand by mine.
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If we're getting a second Link, I find it very hard to believe it wouldn't be Toon Link.
I can't see Young Link getting in over him, and I doubt we'll see another Link added as a newcomer ever again.
It's either Link and Toon Link, or just Link.
Also, I would care if Toon Link was gone. He's my favorite Link.
I can't see Young Link getting in over him, and I doubt we'll see another Link added as a newcomer ever again.
It's either Link and Toon Link, or just Link.
Also, I would care if Toon Link was gone. He's my favorite Link.
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Oracle Link
Smash Master
I mean "Toy" Link Is A really good design but that design was just used once or thrice if you count the 8 bit renditions in OOA and OOSNeed the Fire Emblem universe where instead of wars everyone settles their differences with balling.
If he wasn’t considered a safe return after Brawl, why don’t you mention that they revealed him in 4 after they also revealed conductor Link as a background in Spirit Tracks and everyone and their moms took it as a hard deconfirm? Wouldn’t beating the stage hazard allegations set a precedent? He was the Ridley fans’s strongest argument back in the day, outside of not being too big.
also lol imagine being replaced by toy link
Also Toon Link Works better in 3d/ Side Scrolling while "toy" Link works better in top down!
Arcanir
An old friend evolved
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I highly doubt we'd get any other Young Link if it's not Toon Link. Of the Young Links in the franchise while he hasn't made another appearance in a while he's the only one that has had multiple and consistent appearances throughout the franchise and even at the time of Brawl he was used in at least three different games including WW. There hasn't been another Young Link that has risen up in prominence enough that they would take over as the face of the Young Links, with 'Toy Link' for instance only really having the Link's Awakening remake under his belt and nothing else. If Smash were to bring back the concept of a Young Link I'd imagine it'd stick with the historical choice of Toon Link who has lasted three Smash games and had multiple Zelda appearances over a new Link that hasn't really made a mark.
Wonder Smash
Smash Lord
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I just want to say I like how Sakurai's newest video opens with him playing Ninja Gaiden.
NapoleonDos
Smash Cadet
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Here is my guess for the next Smash.Waluigi time is upon us.
If we want to be ambitious, 3, imo. Id personally do Waluigi, Captain Toad and Toadette, and Paper Mario. Geno would be cool too if they could snag the rights.
Geno, eventually, is perfectly suited to be a preMiium.
Contenders for Mario and Extended Universe:
- Paper Mario
- Captain/ Toad
- Waluigi
- King Boo
- Dixie Kong
- Kamek
dream1ng
Smash Lord
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Because him not being considered safe predated being shown in the spirit tracks stage, so that wasn't the cause of it. It started post-Brawl when people started predicting possible cuts, and that stage wasn't revealed until 2013.If he wasn’t considered a safe return after Brawl, why don’t you mention that they revealed him in 4 after they also revealed conductor Link as a background in Spirit Tracks and everyone and their moms took it as a hard deconfirm? Wouldn’t beating the stage hazard allegations set a precedent? He was the Ridley fans’s strongest argument back in the day, outside of not being too big.
Look, from 2012 onward:
Roster Prediction Display Thread
Rule: You only get one post in this thread and that post will serve as your showcase for your roster prediction to be presented in whatever manner you choose. Do not discuss other people's rosters in this thread. Instead all discussion should be here...
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Spirit Tracks also wasn't seen as a hard deconfirm, people would make arguments that conductor Link wasn't dressed as Toon Link or wasn't the same Link as from WW, so they could co-exist, plus that of Dedede showing up in the background on Dream Land, DK on 75m, and the Blue Falcon appearing on F-Zero stages. Not saying they were the greatest arguments, but they did preclude consensus on TL being out.
You know that this fanbase isn't unanimously going to treat a possible deconfirm as a hard deconfirm unless they have it spelled out for them. I mean, they hinted at Ridley being a boss early on, and it still took months for people to not twist that into being some red herring.
Grim "Anubis" Reaper said:
God Robert's Cousin said:
KingofPhantoms said:
Moon Monkey said:
N3ON said:
On the other hand, imagine Link, Zelda or Ganondorf not returning. People will more easily accept a different child Link. See above.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
But we got like 3 diffrent Adult Links and Zeldas!Because him not being considered safe predated being shown in the spirit tracks stage, so that wasn't the cause of it. It started post-Brawl when people started predicting possible cuts, and that stage wasn't revealed until 2013.
Look, from 2012 onward:
The majority do have TL on them (it's not like he was the most predicted cut), but a fair number don't.Roster Prediction Display Thread
Rule: You only get one post in this thread and that post will serve as your showcase for your roster prediction to be presented in whatever manner you choose. Do not discuss other people's rosters in this thread. Instead all discussion should be here...
Spirit Tracks also wasn't seen as a hard deconfirm, people would make arguments that conductor Link wasn't dressed as Toon Link or wasn't the same Link as from WW, so they could co-exist, plus that of Dedede showing up in the background on Dream Land, DK on 75m, and the Blue Falcon appearing on F-Zero stages. Not saying they were the greatest arguments, but they did preclude consensus on TL being out.
You know that this fanbase isn't unanimously going to treat a possible deconfirm as a hard deconfirm unless they have it spelled out for them. I mean, they hinted at Ridley being a boss early on, and it still took months for people to not twist that into being some red herring.
On the other hand, imagine Link, Zelda or Ganondorf not returning. People will more easily accept a different child Link. See above.
And I guess if they redesign Links Moveset and have no green cap alt People would hate that!
dream1ng
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I'm not quite sure what this is in reference to. I'm not suggesting we will lose any of these characters. And I don't think we will go back down to one Link, barring some truly massive overhaul, so I doubt the green cap totally vanishes. I don't foresee getting a Smash roster without a child Link.
Also I don't think there's much reason to redesign Link's moveset. Maybe further differentiate one of the clones, but if anybody needs that, it's Ganondorf. Even with the existing changes. But they seem pretty stringent with changing existing characters, so I also doubt much happens there.
I'm just saying I don't believe any characters to be staples (for their series, not Smash) past the main three, and removing any of them would be pretty unfathomable, as opposed to TL (or Sheik, or YL). Not that I think we'll lose Sheik either. But it's much more plausible than losing Link, Zelda or Ganondorf.
Luke Starkiller
Smash Cadet
Angry Birds getting a Mini Costume is highly likely. The old 2009 game was extremely enjoyable. They also have an animated movie series which is highly successful.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
There seems to be a big Push to get Jigglypuff outta smash and my mom loved jigglypuff so how about a compromise?
Lets cut JigglyPuff and add Screamtail that should be similar enough for me To Accept!
Lets cut JigglyPuff and add Screamtail that should be similar enough for me To Accept!
RileyXY1
Smash Hero
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Jigglypuff is lucky to even be in Smash. He was only chosen due to his similar appearance to Kirby which allowed the devs to reuse some of Kirby's animations. Oh, and he barely made it into Brawl and only got in because the game was delayed due to Sega flip-flopping on their decision to not add Sonic to the game, which allowed Jigglypuff to get in alongside Toon Link and Wolf who were also not originally planned to be in the game.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
Then its very good that sega flipflopped other wise we wouldnt have my moms favourite, a star fox Viullain and TOON LINK! In the game!
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Slight error on how the Brawl thing went. It(Jigglypuff like most Pokemon are not really a specific sex. Though some were either coded masculine like Mewtwo, coded feminine like Jigglypuff, or due to a retcon were temporarily male only like Pikachu) actually was always going to be in Brawl. It's that the time delays almost caused Jigglypuff to be cut instead. It didn't save the Pokemon. Wolf and Toon Link barely made it in.
To further clear it up, the entire roster of Brawl was planned to be in from the start, along with 7 more characters. Sonic's delay only caused those other 7 to be impossible to finish(and we probably wouldn't have gotten them all anyway. Dixie Kong was something Sakurai couldn't work well with due to how the mechanics simply weren't easy to program and was actually outright cut before being finished. Mewtwo had the most work done otherwise. Roy and Dr. Mario would've been the easiest to bring over. That only leaves Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, and whatever Pra_Mai was. The toon characters were gameplay clones but had no character to branch off on(as they couldn't just use Young Link like Toon Link did), so naturally the idea fell through. That, and Toon Sheik would need an all new model in the first place to work. If Pra_Mai was Plusle & Minun like speculated, then they could use Pichu as a base, but it's also a two character combo probably akin to Ice Climbers, who aren't that easy to program).
But yeah, if Sonic wasn't delayed, we'd have gotten those three, and probably three or four more total(the easiest to program). Though to be fair, despite Toon Sheik being the clear plan, I could see him not wanting to make a new model but a new moveset with Tetra instead(can't say which is easier) and at most, Dixie would've been impossible. Plusle & Minun obviously would've been easier since IC's style A.I. is already there and using a similar design method had some programming that can be brought over.
dream1ng
Smash Lord
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Well, what if a future major Zelda game features a child Link as the lead ala MM or WW, they want this new Link represented but don't make him "Link" in Smash because that has always gone to an 'adult' Link, and this future Smash game doesn't just keep going from Ultimate so the roster is smaller overall and they don't feel three Links are warranted?
I don't think we'll see another Link added as an original newcomer. But as a clone with the same general moveset? Zelda will keep going indefinitely (as will Smash), they're gonna keep making new Links, some of them are probably going to be child Links. It seems myopic to reject that possibility and imply only adult Links will be swapped in and out.
And I'm not sure they're going to bother with three Links in one Smash when there isn't the goal of bringing back every single character ever.
Well that supports my point that getting rid of Toon Link isn't unfathomable in the way removing Link, Zelda or Ganondorf would be. The chance of them doing that was never actually my contention.
I just replaced him with a different child Link in my scenario because I disagree with you that we'd ever go back down to one Link at this point (barring some ridiculous overhaul), not because I thought it was going to happen. Though I don't think it's some eternal impossibility either.
Ok... but this wasn't what I was contesting.
I agree that currently there isn't a child Link who would supplant Toon Link. I don't think Toy Link will, it was just an example of a child Link. But I also wouldn't claim the situation would never present itself. If one of the future "big" Zelda titles (ala OoT/MM/WW/TP/SS/BotW/TotK) features a new child Link, it's not unreasonable to suggest they'd want to put him in Smash.Arcanir said:
It's not always about choosing the Link who made the biggest mark. Sometimes it's just about who's new. BotW Link supplanted TP Link, despite TP being very successful, and BotW (and the Switch) not having released yet. Then in turn, TP Link supplanted OoT Link, despite TP not having released yet, and OoT Link being, like, the archetypical Link, with OoT being OoT. And now, if the goal is to retain the biggest Links, they may as well keep Champion Link, he's gonna be real tough to beat with BotW and TotK (and AoC and MK8D and Ultimate) under his belt. Those games will end up at like 150 mil units together or something insane. And yet, come next adult Link, chances are he'll be cycled out.
And I know adult Links and child Links don't work exactly the same in Smash, one being a rotating mantle and the other being specific sub-incarnations, meaning we're not going to get more than one of the former at once. But I also don't think it's especially likely we'll get more than one of the latter at once either without a goal like Ultimate's, given their redundancy would likely not find both prioritized. As was bared out pre-Ultimate.
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CapitaineCrash
Smash Champion
Honestly I feel like it would be much simpler if The legend of Zelda characters could just get multiple design in 1 characters as skin of each other. I don't get why Toon Link couldn't have like a Young Link skin and a Minish cap skin and maybe even Toy Link skin for example, and adult Link could have Botw, TP OOT and Hyrule warrios skins. I mean, if Bowser Jr. can get 8 totally different characters and Hero could also get 4 very different skins too, I don't get why Zelda can't get that treatment instead of sticking with one reference for each character.
Diddy Kong
Smash Obsessed
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About Link, the way I see it is multiple Links are probably gonna be a mainstay in Smash. Or they are gonna speed up the regular adult Link a fair bit, could also work? Add in the Hero of Time Link as a heavier clone with the classic moveset and problem solved?
I do know for almost 100% certainty that Ganondorf will be overhauled. Might retain a couple of moves from his old Smash moveset cause, well, just look at the dude. He looks made to brawl it out up close. But I could see the sword Smash moves and Specials especially revamped. But a more serious overhaul than that? I think that's unlikely.
With Ganondorf being Tears of the Kingdom and Link being from BotW, what about Zelda tho? I do hope they revamp her a great deal too.
And with all the main Zelda characters being from the BotW saga, what about Sheik, Toon Link and newcomers ?? I still have a small hope for Age of Calamity inspired Impa. There's room for her, and Zelda really desperately needs it's newcomer.
I do know for almost 100% certainty that Ganondorf will be overhauled. Might retain a couple of moves from his old Smash moveset cause, well, just look at the dude. He looks made to brawl it out up close. But I could see the sword Smash moves and Specials especially revamped. But a more serious overhaul than that? I think that's unlikely.
With Ganondorf being Tears of the Kingdom and Link being from BotW, what about Zelda tho? I do hope they revamp her a great deal too.
And with all the main Zelda characters being from the BotW saga, what about Sheik, Toon Link and newcomers ?? I still have a small hope for Age of Calamity inspired Impa. There's room for her, and Zelda really desperately needs it's newcomer.
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God, I hope Advance Wars does well. The game is so close to being out, and I know if it bombs the series won't come back for years. I just want the funny war series to no longer be cursed. Is that so much to ask?
Yall getting it? What AW content would yall want in Smash?
Yall getting it? What AW content would yall want in Smash?
I would personally not like losing Toon Link because he’s the only one of the three Links Im decent at playing 
Like if he really had to go I wouldn’t be sad, that’s just one main I can’t play anymore.
Like if he really had to go I wouldn’t be sad, that’s just one main I can’t play anymore.chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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I doubt I'll be able to get it at launch, but I hope to get it eventually. I've been on the Andy train for quite awhile now despite having never played it, so the least I can do is remedy that...
Perkilator
Smash Legend
I just remembered that the Tank & Infantry Assist Trophy was cut from Ultimate, like a lot of AT’s.
Ivander
Smash Legend
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This is not different from the ARMS maker saying everybody is a main character as for why Min-Min was picked over Spring Man and someone else going, "No, Spring Man is obviously the main character." And Sakurai would not have treated Heroes as a mainline if either Nintendo or Intelligent Systems was not okay with it. If they gave him the okay, then they themselves treat Heroes as mainline.
Not really, though. There's was no spot for it among all the other mainline titles in Engage's base despite all the mainline games otherwise being accounted for. Although it has content in Smash (which, for a mobile game, is very impressive), it's very little, in keeping with spin-off content. Not to mention, TMS also has content in Smash.
They treat it like Pokemon Go, where it's successful enough to cross over into the main series. Doesn't make it mainline.
And regardless of whether Heroes is a maingame or not, if the company is giving it treatment similarly to their main games, than they consider it worthy and/or important to stand by their main games. Engage very clearly was inspired by Heroes with some of it's elements, a character from Three Houses was named after an infamous Battle Pair in FEH's Arena, 2 music tracks from FEH are in Smash Bros. and Engage has both characters, weapons and outright references from Heroes. And I have no doubt Heroes will continue to have an effect on future Fire Emblem games(especially when the Thracia 776 Remake comes. You just know Reinhardt's popularity from Heroes is going to have an effect on his Thracia 776 remake appearance).
And quite honestly, I'm enjoying the absolute roller-coaster of insanity that FEH's Book 7 is bringing.