Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

Man, i miss Toon Link games.

The Link's Awakening remake should have used the Toon art style instead of that toy style.

Back when people were less covetous about character retention he was one of the more speculated cuts, despite being the most reused design then as well.

Well, yeah. Because he IS still a clone character. And clone characters are usually the first on the chopping block when people start discussing cuts.

I just want to say I like how Sakurai's newest video opens with him playing Ninja Gaiden.

More importantly, dying in Ninja Gaiden. Historically accurate.

And Sakurai would not have treated Heroes as a mainline if either Nintendo or Intelligent Systems was not okay with it. If they gave him the okay, then they themselves treat Heroes as mainline.

Companies can be wrong.

 

[Ivander]

Companies can be wrong.

A person can be wrong. A company, let alone two, being wrong implies everybody in those companies are wrong. Which then implies everybody who agrees with those companies are also wrong. Which implies everybody who agrees with those everybodies is also wrong. Maybe everybody in the world is just plain wrong.

 

[DarthEnderX]

A company, let alone two, being wrong implies everybody in those companies are wrong.

Lol, no. It means the one person who's in charge of making the decision is wrong.

Alternatively, they could also just be lying. A company might call a spinoff game a mainline game in order to inflate it's importance, and in turn, it's sales.

Words have meanings, and sometimes, PR speak defies those meanings. That doesn't make them right.

 

[SPEN18]

Not really, though. There's was no spot for it among all the other mainline titles in Engage's base despite all the mainline games otherwise being accounted for. Although it has content in Smash (which, for a mobile game, is very impressive), it's very little, in keeping with spin-off content. Not to mention, TMS also has content in Smash.

They treat it like Pokemon Go, where it's successful enough to cross over into the main series. Doesn't make it mainline.

To be fair, some of the other mainline FE games don't have much in Smash, either. You have a point about Heroes not getting an Emblem until DLC, though there are a few other technicalities to point out there, like them not giving separate Emblems for the remakes and giving Micaiah an Emblem for RD despite not giving a separate Archanea Emblem for New Mystery in base. The Emblems are not exactly "one per mainline game."

Really, the numbering system for mainline FE games has been just all over the place now. Awakening was widely labelled FE13 but it was later discovered to be viewed as FE14 internally; there was the original official explanation that the BS sidestory shifted everything from Binding Blade on up one number, and then there was a discovery that this may have been a coverup for a cancelled Wii game that would have been FE13. Source (this was before Sakurai's Byleth video): https://serenesforest.net/2018/04/20/feature-analysing-fire-emblems-numbering-system/
Then Sakurai's presentation of Byleth explicitly says "17 games, excluding spinoffs" before Sakurai proceeds to count the games in binary, including FE Heroes as the missing game that pushes TH to 17 instead of 16 like many longtime fans would have labelled it (while excluding BS and the cancelled game). It's possible that Sakurai's numbering system was a further official retcon of the official numbering system, and it's possible that FE Heroes was originally not meant to be considered mainline internally until it became very financially successful, making it a convenient fix for the missing spot in the internal numbering.

Now there is further debate about Engage apparently being labelled as FE19 in the code (TH is again FE17 in the code), and hence also about what would possibly be between TH and Engage. But that part isn't relevant to FE Heroes.

 

[Ivander]

Lol, no. It means the one person who's in charge of making the decision is wrong.

Alternatively, they could also just be lying. A company might call a spinoff game a mainline game in order to inflate it's importance, and in turn, it's sales.

Words have meanings, and sometimes, PR speak defies those meanings. That doesn't make them right.

Even then, why does it matter? Regardless of Heroes being a mainline or spin-off, in this particular case, why does it matter whether they say Heroes is a main game or spin-off? Being a main game or spin-off hasn't stopped Heroes from getting similar attention as other Fire Emblem games. This isn't something like a company or official in charge saying something completely contrary to a characters' personality, gameplay element, story part, etc, in the games.
This is just talking about whether Fire Emblem Heroes is Fire Emblem 16, a main game or not, in which case, why does it really matter? It's not a case of "6 comes before 4" or whatnot. It's just deciding whether Fire Emblem Heroes counts as 16 between Echoes 15 and Three Houses 17, which is half-accurate as Echoes came out after Heroes, but Echoes started development(in 2015) before Heroes(in 2016) and Echoes was originally planned to release in 2016 before FEH's release before Echoes was delayed.
Regardless, it's one of those scenarios that you could literally say one thing or the other and nothing changes whether it's true or not. There's no definitive right or wrong answer. If they want it to be main-game, fine. If they want it to be spin-off, fine. Neither stops the attention they giving FEH nor does it contradict anything in or with the other games themselves. So it's like, regardless whether they stated FEH to be FE16 for accuracy or for PR, in this particular case, where and why does it matter?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

God, I hope Advance Wars does well. The game is so close to being out, and I know if it bombs the series won't come back for years. I just want the funny war series to no longer be cursed. Is that so much to ask?

Yall getting it? What AW content would yall want in Smash?

I really wanted to buy it originaly in 2021, but now the timing just feels bad for me. I'm not the biggest tactical rpg fans, and I just played both Mario + Rabbids sparks of hope and Fire emblem engage, and I still have Triangle strategy in my backlog, so I'm not in the mood for more tactical stuff for now. And if anything, at this point I would rather buy Mega man battle network collection than Advance wars remake.

Personally, I think the game will do fine. I mean, pretty much every first party Switch titles end up being the best selling games in their respective franchise, even the port of Pikmin 3 of all thing. So I could see Advance wars remake being also the best selling games in the franchise, although it doesn't mean much considering the franchise never made huge number. I think at best it will do around 1 million sales.

As for Smash content, I still hope we'll get a playable characters some day. But man it just doesn't feel very likely, especially with all the stuff surronding the real ongoing war, it just feels like bad timing for Advance wars in Smash, let alone more game in the franchise.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To answer a quick thing from the last page, Toon Link cannot be a skin for Young Link for the same reason neither can work as an Echo. Their core bodyshape is not the same(or very similar). They're shaped overall differently(more than even Villager and Isabelle are). Alternate costumes only work if the bodyshapes are pretty much the same.

Young Link can have at most an alt loosely based upon Young Link's equipment, including, say, a face render based upon it. But it can only go so far. This isn't like the Meta Ridley alt which is exactly the same bodyshape but also adds some armor to it. For a good example of how bad this works, somebody tried making a Tetra over Toon Link model. It didn't actually work at all. She was extremely off in animations. However, she slightly fit. ...Young Link is far worse. You could also look up the Isabelle over Villager mod. It was severely bad.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I really wanted to buy it originaly in 2021, but now the timing just feels bad for me. I'm not the biggest tactical rpg fans, and I just played both Mario + Rabbids sparks of hope and Fire emblem engage, and I still have Triangle strategy in my backlog, so I'm not in the mood for more tactical stuff for now. And if anything, at this point I would rather buy Mega man battle network collection than Advance wars remake.

Personally, I think the game will do fine. I mean, pretty much every first party Switch titles end up being the best selling games in their respective franchise, even the port of Pikmin 3 of all thing. So I could see Advance wars remake being also the best selling games in the franchise, although it doesn't mean much considering the franchise never made huge number. I think at best it will do around 1 million sales.

As for Smash content, I still hope we'll get a playable characters some day. But man it just doesn't feel very likely, especially with all the stuff surronding the real ongoing war, it just feels like bad timing for Advance wars in Smash, let alone more game in the franchise.

I'd be shocked if it does a million. The advertising campaign for it is very muted so far. Maybe word of mouth or the AW fanbase will rally and the game does well, but right now I think 1 million would be a very generous estimate.

Then again, Switch games have done well even without strong advertisement campaigns. Look at WarioWare Get it Together or Astral Chain if you want proof. I hope it does well but I am bracing myself for disappointment.

 

[Sucumbio]

Did Pokemon ever make a tactical rpg?

The only "non traditional" pokemon game I've truly enjoyed was on the Pokemon Rumble on the Wii.

 

[Perkilator]

Did Pokemon ever make a tactical rpg?

The only "non traditional" pokemon game I've truly enjoyed was on the Pokemon Rumble on the Wii.

They did do Pokémon Conquest, which is technically a crossover between Pokémon and Nobunaga’s Ambition. I know this because the Japanese title is literally called ポケモン＋ノブナガの野望 (“Pokémon + Nobunaga’s Ambition”).

But speaking of tactical RPG’s have you heard of our lord and savior Project X Zone

 

[HyperSomari64]

They did do Pokémon Conquest, which is technically a crossover between Pokémon and Nobunaga’s Ambition. I know this because the Japanese title is literally called ポケモン＋ノブナガの野望 (“Pokémon + Nobunaga’s Ambition”).

Isn't that that the game that lead to the creation of (Sharp Note)FE?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The biggest thing Advance Wars has going for it is that its a fairly modest game, so won't necessarily need big numbers to warrant another sequel/remake. Moreover, both Warforward and Nintendo might see continued value in just having a relationship with the former as a regular developer for AW for a while, given that the latter occasionally struggles to find dedicated studios for even bigger franchises like DK.

 

[SPEN18]

Sorry to his fans but I'd be shocked if YL returns again in a non-EiH situation. It's apparent that they're higher on TL than YL and if cuts are happening then the third Link has gotta be like the easiest axe in the world (besides cuts due to completely unfixable situations like licensing and tech issues).

 

[Sucumbio]

They did do Pokémon Conquest, which is technically a crossover between Pokémon and Nobunaga’s Ambition. I know this because the Japanese title is literally called ポケモン＋ノブナガの野望 (“Pokémon + Nobunaga’s Ambition”).

But speaking of tactical RPG’s have you heard of our lord and savior Project X Zone

I've never played it and only know about it from what's been said here lol. FE is the only tactical rpg I've played... Somehow missed ff tactics during the playstation days

 

[Ivander]

Isn't that that the game that lead to the creation of (Sharp Note)FE?

Nope. Nobunaga's Ambition was Koei. #FE Tokyo Mirage Sessions was Atlus and at the same time, Iwata announced the FE X Shin Megami Tensei deal way too soon before Atlus even had a conclusion on what they wanted to do for FE X Shin Megami Tensei, which eventually became #FE.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Nope. Nobunaga's Ambition was Koei. #FE Tokyo Mirage Sessions was Atlus and at the same time, Iwata announced the FE X Shin Megami Tensei deal way too soon before Atlus even had a conclusion on what they wanted to do for FE X Shin Megami Tensei, which eventually became #FE.

Apparently, there were plans for a PKMN + FE game. But TPC already greenlit the Nobunaga game, so InSys missed the opportunity.

 

[PeridotGX]

Did Pokemon ever make a tactical rpg?

The only "non traditional" pokemon game I've truly enjoyed was on the Pokemon Rumble on the Wii.

gaming peaked in 2012, and fearing it's power they sealed it away and haven't mentioned it since.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Ah yes my favorite Legendary Pokémon, Jigglypuff.

 

[Perkilator]

New DLC trailer just dropped

Some new amiibo (plus the Aegis release date, which only leaves Sora) were announced as well.

Pyra and Mythra amiibo are releasing on July 21st as a double pack pic.twitter.com/lqPz6cxN4L

— Wario64 (@Wario64) April 19, 2023

Noah and Mio amiibo announced https://t.co/d4WYU6nMny pic.twitter.com/2RsUuTjH6D

— Wario64 (@Wario64) April 19, 2023

 

[Will]

I remember playing a demo for Conquest when I was 11. I remember l used their website somehow to get it on my DS. The only game I had before was Soul Silver, and I was so confused by the gameplay that later on I thought I just dreamt it up.

 

[Idon]

Putting all my stocks in XC3 for the next smash, it's ****ing happening.

 

[Ivander]

Putting all my stocks in XC3 for the next smash, it's ****ing happening.

Probably will, but who will it be?

May be obvious, may not be so obvious. Only time will tell.

 

[Perkilator]

Probably will, but who will it be?

Well, the obvious answer would be Noah & Mio, but what about the XC3 stage?

 

[Ivander]

Guesswork aside, will the next Smash Bros. give Shulk the Ike treatment?

 

[Idon]

Probably will, but who will it be?

May be obvious, may not be so obvious. Only time will tell.

Definitely Noah, the question is whether he'll bring Lucky Seven, Mio, the Ouroboros, or whatever else with him.

Well, the obvious answer would be Noah & Mio, but what about the XC3 stage?

A lot of options, but I feel like the most striking one would be the Ascension Grounds. Fulfills the "gimmick" of the Xenoblade 3 world being a mish-mash fusion of Xenoblade 1 and 2 by having XC2 buildings with the giant sword in the ground in the back.

Guesswork aside, will the next Smash Bros. give Shulk the Ike treatment?

The Ike treatment as in providing an alternative costume? Unlikely.

The new Shulk has a prosthetic arm, which beyond just looks, means in-animation he can't use his right hand to swing the sword. So then that means they'd have to reanimate a bunch of stuff. Possible, but it'd definitely be the extra mile.

Hope he gets his DLC costume from the original Xenoblade at least.

 

[Ivander]

The Ike treatment as in providing an alternative costume? Unlikely.

The new Shulk has a prosthetic arm, which beyond just looks, means in-animation he can't use his right hand to swing the sword. So then that means they'd have to reanimate a bunch of stuff. Possible, but it'd definitely be the extra mile.

Hope he gets his DLC costume from the original Xenoblade at least.

I mean, they did change PoR Ike to RD Ike first for SSB4 before allowing players to choose between PoR Ike and RD Ike for SSBU.

Regardless, hopefully next Smash gets more alternate costumes in general.

 

[Idon]

I mean, they did change PoR Ike to RD Ike first for SSB4 before allowing players to choose between PoR Ike and RD Ike for SSBU.

Regardless, hopefully next Smash gets more alternate costumes in general.

More alternate costumes for the actual characters.

God knows they put in way more mii outfits than anyone ever asked for lol.

 

[chocolatejr9]

New DLC trailer just dropped

Some new amiibo (plus the Aegis release date, which only leaves Sora) were announced as well.

Pyra and Mythra amiibo are releasing on July 21st as a double pack pic.twitter.com/lqPz6cxN4L

— Wario64 (@Wario64) April 19, 2023

Noah and Mio amiibo announced https://t.co/d4WYU6nMny pic.twitter.com/2RsUuTjH6D

— Wario64 (@Wario64) April 19, 2023

I don't wanna hear anybody talk smack about Rex ever again.

 

[Ivander]

More alternate costumes for the actual characters.

God knows they put in way more mii outfits than anyone ever asked for lol.

Mii Costumes aren't too bad depending on the outfit. But man, I'd have more incentive to get alternate costumes if they were for the main characters.

 

[Wunderwaft]

There is absolutely no way Ganondorf won't get a rework in the next Smash based on his TotK design, if he doesn't get it then whoever is directing the next Smash is a hack, plain and simple.

You mean to tell me a character is brought back to a main title after 17 years as the main villain, is given a badass design that resonates with the fans, is given a new style of weapon with a Katana, and he WON'T get a redesign based on this iteration? Let Falcondorf die once and for all, if the next Smash wants to move forward after Ultimate then trying to conserve everything from the past won't help it. There is no way you can top EiH, so the best you can do is bring a fresh experience for the fans to chew on.

 

[silenthunder]

I also believe we'll be getting Xenoblade 3 rep. Most likely Noah. A new Pokemon is for sure. 2b and crash for popularity and a Zelda character who isn't link (we've been asking long enough) doubt it'll be impa.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Even then, why does it matter? Regardless of Heroes being a mainline or spin-off, in this particular case, why does it matter whether they say Heroes is a main game or spin-off?

Dunno. You guys were the ones discussing it. Must matter to you for some reason.

Nobunaga's Ambition was Koei.

Fun fact, Nobunaga's Ambition is essentially the origin of the Dynasty Warriors franchise.

Koei's "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" series was basically a spinoff of "Nobunaga's Ambition, but in China".

And Dynasty Warriors started out as a spinoff of "Romance of Three Kingdoms, but an action game".

Which then came full circle when they released Samurai Warriors, a spinoff of "Dynasty Warriors, but in Japan".

 

[Gengar84]

I also believe we'll be getting Xenoblade 3 rep. Most likely Noah. A new Pokemon is for sure. 2b and crash for popularity and a Zelda character who isn't link (we've been asking long enough) doubt it'll be impa.

Yeah, a new Xenoblade and Pokémon rep seem likely. We might get Xenoblade 4 and Gen 10 before the next Smash so I wouldn’t call a Xenoblade 3 or Scarlet/Violet character a lock yet. I’m also expecting something else from Splatoon, likely an Octoling as that series has really blown up in popularity. We could definitely use a new Zelda character as we haven’t had a truly unique character since Melee, which is crazy to me.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah, a new Xenoblade and Pokémon rep seem likely. We might get Xenoblade 4 and Gen 10 before the next Smash so I wouldn’t call a Xenoblade 3 or Scarlet/Violet character a lock yet. I’m also expecting something else from Splatoon, likely an Octoling as that series has really blown up in popularity. We could definitely use a new Zelda character as we haven’t had a truly unique character since Melee, which is crazy to me.

It all depends on when the next Nintendo system comes out. Smash games typically tend to be rather early in a system's life cycle, except for the original game of course. For a Gen 10 Pokemon to get in the next Smash game would have to come out in 2026 at the earliest, since the earliest I expect Gen 10 to come would be in 2025. The earliest I expect the next Nintendo console to come out is next year in 2024, and there's a possibility that they would just port Ultimate to the next console instead of making a completely new game.

 

[Oracle Link]

The Link's Awakening remake should have used the Toon art style instead of that toy style.

No Because this is how link looke in the original:
Sprite:

Artwork:

And Again "Toy" Link is basically just a modern version Of Links original look from Links LA Ingame apearnce with some cues taken from the artwork and the oracle game (in which link used the same dprite as in links awekening)

Thats also why i call myself oracle link because link from the remake is a well REMADE Version of the orignal DesignWhich i adore. i mean imagine if your favourite Zelda gets remade and instead of using a modern Version of that links Design they just slap another link into the game?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Yeah, a new Xenoblade and Pokémon rep seem likely. We might get Xenoblade 4 and Gen 10 before the next Smash so I wouldn’t call a Xenoblade 3 or Scarlet/Violet character a lock yet. I’m also expecting something else from Splatoon, likely an Octoling as that series has really blown up in popularity. We could definitely use a new Zelda character as we haven’t had a truly unique character since Melee, which is crazy to me.

Gen 10 maybe, but I have a lot of doubt that Xenoblade 4 would be in play for Smash’s base game.

There was a 5 year gap between 2 and 3. If they follow the same development timeline, that puts the earliest window for Xenoblade 4 at 2027. Sure, maybe they rush right to 4, but I honestly doubt they are gonna pass up the chance to take the low hanging fruit of a Xenoblade Chronicles X remaster. Even if the game is launching in 2025, what if that is too soon for the next smash? Xenoblade 2 missed the base game and it was out over a year earlier. Even if we get the next smash game in 2028, I think we might have to wait until dlc for Xenoblade 4 to show itself.

 

[silenthunder]

				I have an uncle who works for Nintendo he says we're getting Spoiler: Spoiler CD-i Link edit I'm on mobile it's doing weird **** to my messages

 

[Gengar84]

Gen 10 maybe, but I have a lot of doubt that Xenoblade 4 would be in play for Smash’s base game.

There was a 5 year gap between 2 and 3. If they follow the same development timeline, that puts the earliest window for Xenoblade 4 at 2027. Sure, maybe they rush right to 4, but I honestly doubt they are gonna pass up the chance to take the low hanging fruit of a Xenoblade Chronicles X remaster. Even if the game is launching in 2025, what if that is too soon for the next smash? Xenoblade 2 missed the base game and it was out over a year earlier. Even if we get the next smash game in 2028, I think we might have to wait until dlc for Xenoblade 4 to show itself.

Would a Xenoblade X remaster push Elma to the front of the potential Smash newcomers list ahead of Noah and Mio? I fear that Xenoblade 3 might be old news by the time we get the next Smash. A remaster would bring more attention to X and might re-ignite interest in Elma for Smash.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Would a Xenoblade X remaster push Elma to the front of the potential Smash newcomers list ahead of Noah and Mio? I fear that Xenoblade 3 might be old news by the time we get the next Smash. A remaster would bring more attention to X and might re-ignite interest in Elma for Smash.

I doubt it. Remakes haven’t done much for the smash roster yet. Celica and a Hoenn Pokémon for example were viable picks but got passed over. It also does not help that Xenoblade 3 is the best selling game in the series. The game did extremely well and got a ton of praise, I struggle to see it not making it into the next Smash.

 

[Ivander]

Would a Xenoblade X remaster push Elma to the front of the potential Smash newcomers list ahead of Noah and Mio? I fear that Xenoblade 3 might be old news by the time we get the next Smash. A remaster would bring more attention to X and might re-ignite interest in Elma for Smash.

I doubt it. Not unless it sells anywhere close to Xenoblade 3.