Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SPEN18]

i wonder how many people are gonna start supporting tulin for smash after totk. there others will probably see an increase as well i imagine. do recall people saying they like sidon not sure about riju but she certainly is now. what do you guys think?

I think Sidon could become very popular.
IDK about in terms of Smash, tho. Some might think it odd to get the second-string champs before/without the OGs. Unless maybe one of them becomes a runaway favorite character.
It all remains to be seen, of course.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think Sidon could become very popular.
IDK about in terms of Smash, tho. Some might think it odd to get the second-string champs before/without the OGs. Unless maybe one of them becomes a runaway favorite character.
It all remains to be seen, of course.

Which one's the Gerudo chick? Because if Urbosa is any indicator, she may have a shot at being the fan fav.

 

[Oracle Link]

Teba is still around it seems, if you look closely at the scene of Sidon and Riju running you can see him run across the front briefly. I'm guessing what's going to happen is that his son will be involved in certain missions while he'll still play a major role in story events like the other ssuccessors.

Im guessing they picked his son cause they wanted a SMOL Character!

 

[Ivander]

If anything, I'm sad we got no look at Yunobo in the trailer or even artwork of him. Like geez, we get Sidon, Riju and (a glimpse of)Teba and his son, but poor Yunobo. Really could've given us a glimpse of all 4 Champion descendants fighting together with Link to really home in on that "You're not alone" sequel feel.

 

[Oracle Link]

Here is a comparision from regular Videospielman to Smash bros Videospielman:

He Has Detailed Hair, a neck , Some Folds in his Clothes, Shadow Effects and a little detail in the Eyes! Do You see it?
Edit: Hes also desaturated cause smash ultimate is desaturated!

 

[fogbadge]

(a glimpse of)Teba and his son

we didn't. i watched it again, it's tulin at that part

 

[SPEN18]

if Urbosa is any indicator, she may have a shot at being the fan fav.

Riju, yeah I could also see becoming popular. But will people come to like her more than Urbosa? Or Sidon more than Mipha, for that matter?

 

[Arcanir]

Riju, yeah I could also see becoming popular. But will people come to like her more than Urbosa? Or Sidon more than Mipha, for that matter?

Sidon is already very popular so it wouldn't be out of the question for him to beat Mipha in that regard if he hasn't already. Riju vs. Urbosa will depend on how Tears of the Kingdom handles her as Urbosa was definitely more popular in the previous games. The same applies to Yunobo and Tulin, especially the latter coming after both Revali and Teba.

 

[NintenZ]

So I’ve kinda fallen out of Smash talk but you know I really want a Tales character.

Been playing a lot of Tales games recently I think it has so much potential for characters in Smash and all the protags really bring out something interesting, there isn’t a wrong choice for me.

Even just limiting it to only ones who have appeared on a Nintendo system, I think Cress, Yuri, Luke, and Lloyd would all bring something interesting to the table.

I know I was backing Yuri awhile ago but now that I’ve played more I’d be happy with just about anyone, tbh Tales is such a significant series and a pioneer for the JRPG genre that it’s criminal we don’t have a character in the game, so just give me someone.

 

[Wunderwaft]

A bit late to this but they better change Ganondorf's moveset in the next game to accomodate his brand new look in TotK, they even gave him a freakin katana this time!

This is the biggest chance the dorf has in changing his Smash moveset since Melee, putting all my wishes and prayers for this one fellas.

 

[SPEN18]

Sidon

You're right; he's already quite popular. Depending on his role in this new game, though, he could truly break out.

 

[DarthEnderX]

A bit late to this but they better change Ganondorf's moveset in the next game to accomodate his brand new look in TotK, they even gave him a freakin katana this time!

I don't like that he has a katana. Basically turned him into an anime swordsman. Gimmie trident!

 

[Wunderwaft]

I don't like that he has a katana. Basically turned him into an anime swordsman. Gimmie trident!

All bladed weapons are swords when you think about it.
Katanas are single edged swords
Tridents are forked swords

All roads lead to the anime swordsman archtype

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ganondorf is a sword user mainly(he's never actually used another weapon outright in canon. Magic not counting. Though he does have a Knife that went unused).

Pig Ganon is a Trident user mainly. He clearly didn't have access to his Trident yet anyway, hence using two Swords in OOT, the birth of this form. He's still tied to the Gerudo so the form directly takes from his core abilities at the time.

There's no reason he'd suddenly pick up the Trident when his Gerudo heritage trained him as a core Sword User(Ganondorf clearly cares about his heritage a lot more than people credit for. There's a good reason he directly went double blades in WW. Meanwhile, Puppet Ganon is just something of an afterthought. He doesn't really take to that form and even denounces the idea of destiny at the end of the game. Demise's influence was lifted for him by then, or is at least heavily implied to be the case). Pig Ganon gained the Trident only one time via the story in one of the many branching timelines. It's unclear when he even got his Trident for ALTTP, and it has no ties to FSA. Probably just the same place held it, but it's completely offscreen.

Just cause they're the same person doesn't mean the forms fight actually the same in any constant motion. They're very different characters in function. Hell, there's multiple Pig Ganons who work entirely differently. Bipedal Ganon is a weapon/magic user(which the blight Ganons are directly based upon, but also a loose take on Phantom Ganon), while his more boar-like forms are brutish animals who don't use weapons but sometimes a bit of magical ability.

Overall, they're separated heavily in canon and it makes sense. Ganondorf prefers Swords. Pig Ganon prefers Tridents. They don't even use mainly the same abilities beyond, what, teleportation? At most? Ganon doesn't even float either. That's a Ganondorf thing. You could also say they're both physical powerhouses, but it's different too. Ganon only uses that in a defensive manner, usually bodychecking Link or being able to do his Trident(and one-off Sword) swings, while Ganondorf actually will physically punch and kick from time to time, while also using magic and swords.

On another note, his new design is the most fitting for his current moveset. His new Sword is actually a huge sword, not a thin kitana, and thus, works best with heavy swings. His bodyshape isn't much different, and he's also designed in a way where he is easy to work with brute force. He's basically the epitome of Smash Ganondorf, but in a canon game, design-wise. It's only a matter if the animations even work fine, otherwise they wouldn't use this one. You ain't getting a super moveset overhaul like that. Falcondorf is here to stay. If you want a new Ganon/dorf design, wait for a new character slot. Maybe we'll get one, but I doubt it.

Fixed so it's a bit more clear(though obviously if I say Ganondorf and Ganon separately, it's kind of obvious I mean a different form, but... people try to conflate them as being more connected than they are. Paying quite a bit of attention shows that they're so damn different it hurts. They could easily retcon it to being two different people sharing one body and it'd make a ton of sense. Especially now that Pig Ganon is effectively far more brutish and less of a tactical master that Ganondorf is. They have separated them to some degree besides abilities, but yeah).

 

[dream1ng]

The problem is that there's isn't a major standout character here plot/prominence-wise that isn't Link, Zelda or Ganondorf. This game, and BotW before it, don't have an equivalent to Midna or Skull Kid or Ghirahim (though I guess SS also had Fi).

Some people think we wouldn't get, for example, one of the champions selected above the other three. I don't think something like that is implausible if they were intent on adding a Zelda newcomer. It's just that that impetus would have to intersect with disregarding non-current characters and choosing not to add some other version of a triforce character. And with all of those factors plus the fact that there is no singular standout, it seems unlikely we'd get any of these characters. Even with the fact that Sidon was fairly popular before and will probably only get more popular now.

It's a shame, really, because the Zelda cast is kind of being wasted in Smash. There's such a good supporting cast, it's one of the only series where treating it like Pokemon or FE might actually be appreciated, considering the "staples" really only number at three, and have already been there forever. And it's Zelda - if FE can get an original newcomer every time, it certainly could too.

Instead we have, frankly, a pretty piss poor selection. Six fighters, three original movesets, just as many actual characters, no newcomer since Brawl, and no original newcomer since Melee, despite like a dozen games having happened since. With two going past 10 mil and one past 30 mil. Wtf

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly I just find myself hoping that Hyrule Warriors characters would be in consideration. Even a relative obscurity like Linkle would be novel and young Impa in Age of Calamity was so fun to play that that the potential waste of not having her in in Smash in some capacity bothers me more than any other potential LoZ fighter absence.

 

[Gengar84]

Honestly I just find myself hoping that Hyrule Warriors characters would be in consideration. Even a relative obscurity like Linkle would be novel and young Impa in Age of Calamity was so fun to play that that the potential waste of not having her in in Smash in some capacity bothers me more than any other potential LoZ fighter absence.

Yeah, I loved Impa in Hyrule Warriors and even the minor characters like Volga and Wizzro could be a ton of fun in Smash. One of my friend’s most wanted characters for the next Smash is Lana. Hyrule Warriors also had an amazing soundtrack that would be awesome in Smash. It’s a shame nothing from it made it into Ultimate.

 

[dream1ng]

Which one's the Gerudo chick? Because if Urbosa is any indicator, she may have a shot at being the fan fav.

Fwiw Urbosa isn't the most popular BotW champion, Mipha is. It seems like it's Urbosa because her contingent is the loudest, but on (comparatively) high-volume polls, like on the Nintendo twitter, Mipha handily beat her out. And then there's Japan, where good luck to you going up against cute fish girl.

I guess it's like when people were surprised at Ninjara being the second most popular ARMS character, even though there were results that bared that out as well.

I imagine Sidon will also be the most popular here. He was already pretty popular in BotW. TotK will probably push him past Mipha, considering both his new role and that it's unlikely Mipha (or the other champions) have much of a notable part going forward.

Honestly I just find myself hoping that Hyrule Warriors characters would be in consideration. Even a relative obscurity like Linkle would be novel and young Impa in Age of Calamity was so fun to play that that the potential waste of not having her in in Smash in some capacity bothers me more than any other potential LoZ fighter absence.

Me too. HW is basically the repository of Impa's best material. As well as the only recent depictions of her in a clearly feasible state.

And yet I suspect it will continue to be Kirby Air Ride that gets more attention than any other spin-off that doesn't feature Mario.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Tridents are forked swords

Swords are single pronged tridents.

There's no reason he'd suddenly pick up the Trident when his Gerudo heritage trained him as a core Sword User(Ganondorf clearly cares about his heritage a lot more than people credit for.

Then why is the sword he's using a katana when the Gerudo use scimitars, not katanas? Because the Shiekah are the Japanese-coded tribe.

 

[Oracle Link]

The problem is that there's isn't a major standout character here plot/prominence-wise that isn't Link, Zelda or Ganondorf. This game, and BotW before it, don't have an equivalent to Midna or Skull Kid or Ghirahim (though I guess SS also had Fi).

Some people think we wouldn't get, for example, one of the champions selected above the other three. I don't think something like that is implausible if they were intent on adding a Zelda newcomer. It's just that that impetus would have to intersect with disregarding non-current characters and choosing not to add some other version of a triforce character. And with all of those factors plus the fact that there is no singular standout, it seems unlikely we'd get any of these characters. Even with the fact that Sidon was fairly popular before and will probably only get more popular now.

It's a shame, really, because the Zelda cast is kind of being wasted in Smash. There's such a good supporting cast, it's one of the only series where treating it like Pokemon or FE might actually be appreciated, considering the "staples" really only number at three, and have already been there forever. And it's Zelda - if FE can get an original newcomer every time, it certainly could too.

Instead we have, frankly, a pretty piss poor selection. Six fighters, three original movesets, just as many actual characters, no newcomer since Brawl, and no original newcomer since Melee, despite like a dozen games having happened since. With two going past 10 mil and one past 30 mil. Wtf

The Staples honestly Number at 4 (Dont forget Toon Link) yeah its really weird how zelda has no newcomers still!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Then why is the sword he's using a katana when the Gerudo use scimitars, not katanas? Because the Shiekah are the Japanese-coded tribe.

...Or because the Yiga Clan(the evil Sheikah) are on Ganon's side and would offer him a sword(or maybe he stole it from them, who knows)? It's only in AOC they do a heel-face turn. I mean, why would he not model himself after his own allies when the Gerudo have forsaken him, right? The sudden hair bun isn't much of a coincidence when he's suddenly using the same kind of weapon his allies are using. It might even be implying he's something of a Shogun to them now that the leader is dead. There's actual good reasons for it.

You know, an actual reason within the story. All of his swords have something behind it.

Ganon in OOT uses Schimitars. He's still a Gerudo at heart, but sucks at using them. In WW, he still uses Schimitars, with Koume and Kotake on them. In TP, he has no access or time to get proper swords cause he lost, so he steals one from his executioners. His non-canon appearances obviously don't matter.

(Besides, the races in Hyrule, especially the humanoid ones, are loosely based upon various things, but they were never straight translations of anything. Hylians aren't vain like Elves nor are they suddenly Rangers by design. They can use some tactics, but even Link was loosely based upon Peter Pan also to some degree, not just an Elf. Gerudo take references from both Romani and Amazons. They sometimes even have different ear types, so can't be just one straight reference. Sheikah(and Yiga by proxy) are loosely based upon the Ninja, but they're not just from one area of the world. That's not even counting how they're magically adept warriors, which isn't specific to any area of the world either. In fact, a lot of times the whole concept of magic was based upon witches, which were often noted more so in the European regions, the same with fairy magic. ...The Asian regions in general had Yokai, a completely different kind of thing). Never mind that Impa is a Sheikah and has multiple different designs that aren't from one region either, so they obviously can't be based upon only one race. They're too varied for that. So that reasoning doesn't hold up. Basically? No, nobody is based upon strictly one thing. They're fictional races. And that's not even counting the tons of various other non-humanoid races which at most have minor traces from something).

 

[SneakyLink]

Wanted to ask how do acquisitions change things speculation wise if there are any changes?

Asking because Sega is acquiring Angry Birds developer Rovio.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Wanted to ask how do acquisitions change things speculation wise if there are any changes?

Asking because Sega is acquiring Angry Birds developer Rovio.

I mean, it depends of the acquisition really. In this specific case, personally I think it change nothing because I doubt we will see Angry birds in Smash either way considering that they seems hesitant to add even content from first party mobile games in Smash and even if we would get mobile characters I doubt we would get more than one and I doubt they would go with Angry birds of all thing.

In some other case it might give some characters more chance, personally I think Crash will be way more likely with Microsoft and he will be front runner for the next big third party in the next Smash. In other case, it could hurt a lot character chances. Hypothetically, if Sony would buy something, like for example ArcSystems, well it would pretty much completely destroy Sol Badguy chances. So it's really a case by case basics and I don't think it's as simple as "acquisition are bad for Smash" or "acquisition are good for Smash". (Although I think acquisition are mostly bad for the video game industry as a whole but that's another topic).

 

[RileyXY1]

I mean, it depends of the acquisition really. In this specific case, personally I think it change nothing because I doubt we will see Angry birds in Smash either way considering that they seems hesitant to add even content from first party mobile games in Smash and even if we would get mobile characters I doubt we would get more than one and I doubt they would go with Angry birds of all thing.

In some other case it might give some characters more chance, personally I think Crash will be way more likely with Microsoft and he will be front runner for the next big third party in the next Smash. In other case, it could hurt a lot character chances. Hypothetically, if Sony would buy something, like for example ArcSystems, well it would pretty much completely destroy Sol Badguy chances. So it's really a case by case basics and I don't think it's as simple as "acquisition are bad for Smash" or "acquisition are good for Smash". (Although I think acquisition are mostly bad for the video game industry as a whole but that's another topic).

It would be even worse if Sony buys companies that already have characters in Smash, like Konami or Square Enix.

 

[DarthEnderX]

...Or because the Yiga Clan(the evil Sheikah) are on Ganon's side and would offer him a sword(or maybe he stole it from them, who knows)?

Hmm, okay. I could see that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Wanted to ask how do acquisitions change things speculation wise if there are any changes?

Asking because Sega is acquiring Angry Birds developer Rovio.

Well, at the very least the chances are better now that Rovio is owned by a company already in Smash. I guess it really depends on what happens next, if that makes any sense.

 

[RileyXY1]

All it changes is that Angry Birds now has a higher chance of getting content in Smash, but I don't know if Sakurai wants to add characters from mobile games. Although Angry Birds is one of the biggest IPs in that corner of gaming.

 

[Sucumbio]

Speaking of mobile gaming are there any Nintendo IPs that were introduced on the Gameboy and are legendary enough to be considered for smash?

 

[Perkilator]

Speaking of mobile gaming are there any Nintendo IPs that were introduced on the Gameboy and are legendary enough to be considered for smash?

MEOWTH GODDAMNIT

 

[Will]

Wanted to ask how do acquisitions change things speculation wise if there are any changes?

Asking because Sega is acquiring Angry Birds developer Rovio.

Red can get in Smash. There, I said it. I’m not wrong. You can’t argue that Angry Birds has done nothing significant in the gaming world.

All it changes is that Angry Birds now has a higher chance of getting content in Smash, but I don't know if Sakurai wants to add characters from mobile games. Although Angry Birds is one of the biggest IPs in that corner of gaming.

Man there’s Fire Emblem Heroes content in Ultimate

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Speaking of mobile gaming are there any Nintendo IPs that were introduced on the Gameboy and are legendary enough to be considered for smash?

Well aside from what is already in Smash (Pokémon, Kirby and Wario) the only one that comes to mind is Wave race, but even as a retro rep I doubt it would be considered.

 

[Oracle Link]

Well aside from what is already in Smash (Pokémon, Kirby and Wario) the only one that comes to mind is Wave race, but even as a retro rep I doubt it would be considered.

Does Golden sun Count?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Does Golden sun Count?

I assumed the original post was GB and not GBA. But yeah if you count GBA you could add Golden Sun and Rhythm heaven.

 

[Will]

Speaking of mobile gaming are there any Nintendo IPs that were introduced on the Gameboy and are legendary enough to be considered for smash?

TIL Tetris came out on the NES first

 

[Ivander]

Wanted to ask how do acquisitions change things speculation wise if there are any changes?

Asking because Sega is acquiring Angry Birds developer Rovio.

I'll see what happens. I mean, for some characters, Sakurai mainly does movesets he wants to make and while Nintendo was pushing for Minecraft, I don't think they would've pushed for it hard if Sakurai could not figure out something for Steve. I mean, Miyamoto did suggest Pac-Man to Sakurai and he didn't push Pac-Man any further when Sakurai couldn't figure out something for him at the time. An Angry Bird like Red getting in Smash will probably depend on whether Sakurai has enough interest in him or if Sakurai can't figure out what to do with Red at that time.

Speaking of mobile gaming are there any Nintendo IPs that were introduced on the Gameboy and are legendary enough to be considered for smash?

We have Pokemon, Kirby and Wario. The other two IPs introduced were Mole Mania and For Frog the Bell Tolls. We have the Sable Prince in Smash as an Assist Trophy, but I don't think his chances are any better until his game gets a remake if they ever do. Meanwhile, Mole Mania's only appearance in Smash was a Spirit, so I don't it's high on the list.

Meanwhile on the 3rd Party side, there's really only 3 that began on GB. Gargoyle's Quest by Capcom and both Seiken Densetsu/Mana and the Saga games by Square. Gargoyle's Quest(also known as Red Arremer: Makaimura Gaiden) and Mana(which had the title Seiken Densetsu: Final Fantasy Gaiden) depend on whether you see them as their own thing or as spin-offs to Ghosts'n Goblins(known in Japan as Makaimura) and Final Fantasy at the time. Saga is the only one that was purely it's own thing, only getting the Final Fantasy name in the west for marketing.
That said, Mana separated from Final Fantasy with Secret of Mana and the name Makaimura was not on Gargoyle's Quest 2 or Demon's Crest and introduced Firebrand who would become a playable character in one of the SNK vs Capcom games and Ultimate MVC3 & MVC Infinite.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hmm, okay. I could see that.

I do wonder how they'll tie in overall. If they're even there, anyway. Maybe he slaughtered them all and took the sword as a trophy? Maybe he's the new shogun. Maybe it's, as thought, a possible gift. Lots of options~

 

[Opossum]

Man there’s Fire Emblem Heroes content in Ultimate

Hell, not even just the two songs...if you wanted to be super annoyingly pedantic, Byleth technically debuted in Heroes like a week before Three Houses released lmao.

Granted nobody in their right mind would say Byleth is the first mobile game character in Smash, but it's true in the most technical sense lol.

 

[Perkilator]

Man there’s Fire Emblem Heroes content in Ultimate

With that in mind, they seriously should’ve done a Spirit Event for FEH.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Hell, not even just the two songs...if you wanted to be super annoyingly pedantic, Byleth technically debuted in Heroes like a week before Three Houses released lmao.

Granted nobody in their right mind would say Byleth is the first mobile game character in Smash, but it's true in the most technical sense lol.

It's like the "Lucario's first appearance was in a movie" **** of "The Rule" deniers. The difference is FEH is a video game.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah Nintendo basically treats Heroes as a mainline FE game...
I think this is very annoying to certain segments of the FE fandom...
cue Sakurai counting in binary