Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[NonSpecificGuy]

Despite the rumors that say Mortal Kombat is banned in Japan it’s actually not.

The problem with MK is that if it ever is localized over in Japan it’s given the definitive Z Rating in Japan for its gore which Japan takes VERY seriously. The Z Rating in Japan is essentially our AO rating over here in America and by that I mean, it’s essentially a death sentence. This is often why games like Ninja Gaiden Master Collection or the Resident Evil Series often see 2 releases over there. The Z Rated original game for the hardcore fans of the franchises that don’t mind the gore and a toned down D Rating for… literally most of Japan.

Spoiler: RE:2 Version D and Z for reference

Talking on Scorpions likelihood though? It’s a tough blow to his chances but the fact that Mortal Kombat is the 2nd best selling fighting game franchise of all time, only behind Smash I might add, is extremely hard to ignore. Especially as a company like Nintendo who want to sell the games to anyone and everyone and to a connoisseur of gaming like Sakurai. I’m sure he knows about and I’m sure Nintendo of America knows about it.

In my personal opinion it could end up in either direction. One thing I will say is that I highly doubt the violence will have anything to do with his inclusion or exclusion. Scorpion and Sub-Zero specifically have been toned down to a staggering degree without even coming close to losing the charm that makes them endearing characters. So I think it would all depend on which legacy out weighs the other. His overwhelming legacy over in the west or his formidable lack there of in Japan. Who knows?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

My thinking is that MK popping up in Smash via an assist trophy or spirit event has always felt a bit more likely. Sub-Zero being activated and freezing a few fighters while also slicking the ground before disappearing would be fully in line with what he does, would be a novel sight (especially if he's doing it to Street Fighter characters) and be fairly safe as far as content.

I mean there is a way to make Mortal Kombat characters work in Smash without the gore, but how much of the spirit of the franchise could be kept, and whether or not it would be considered worth the effort to Nintendo and/or the Smash director is another matter entirely.

 

[fogbadge]

with all this debate over MK and the likeliness over scorpion part of me is now half expecting cassie cage to end up being the playable one

 

[Gengar84]

My thinking is that MK popping up in Smash via an assist trophy or spirit event has always felt a bit more likely. Sub-Zero being activated and freezing a few fighters while also slicking the ground before disappearing would be fully in line with what he does, would be a novel sight (especially if he's doing it to Street Fighter characters) and be fairly safe as far as content.

I mean there is a way to make Mortal Kombat characters work in Smash without the gore, but how much of the spirit of the franchise could be kept, and whether or not it would be considered worth the effort to Nintendo and/or the Smash director is another matter entirely.

The original Mortal Kombat movie was pretty family friendly and had no gore whatsoever. That movie is still remembered fondly and I think it’s proof that Mortal Kombat doesn’t really need the gore to resonate. There was also a Mortal Kombat kid’s cartoon around that time and the franchise had several toys. Just because the mainline games are gory doesn’t mean that it is a requirement whenever a character is represented. Personally, I think the cool characters like Scorpion and Sub-Zero as well as the ambitious story mode are a bigger selling point than the excessive gore.

 

[Sucumbio]

The original Mortal Kombat movie was pretty family friendly and had no gore whatsoever.

"So then he freezes this guy, right? And then he explodes. I could see his guts and everything. Hmh, almost lost my lunch!"

Haha I get your point though but there was definitely some gore aspects.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I think this E3 would be the first time in which serious talk about a new game could be heard but I bet it will be a definitive version of Ultimate with a few new characters to round it out to a full roster of exactly 100 characters. The true next Smash is probably years off and definitely on the next console, so a Definitive port for the new console makes perfect sense. Still, Nintendo doesn't always make sense so who knows.

 

[Gengar84]

"So then he freezes this guy, right? And then he explodes. I could see his guts and everything. Hmh, almost lost my lunch!"

Haha I get your point though but there was definitely some gore aspects.

Okay, I guess there was a bit of gore lol. It’s hard to remember every part of the movie even I’ve seen it at least 5 times. Still, I remember seeing it in theaters with my family when I was still a kid and I don’t remember having any issues with it. I was 11 at the time and my brother was 8.

At the same time, I remember my brother and I were really into the Alien and Predator movies at an even younger age and those were definitely gory so I don’t know what that says about us lol.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I think this E3 would be the first time in which serious talk about a new game could be heard but I bet it will be a definitive version of Ultimate with a few new characters to round it out to a full roster of exactly 100 characters. The true next Smash is probably years off and definitely on the next console, so a Definitive port for the new console makes perfect sense. Still, Nintendo doesn't always make sense so who knows.

The question is....who would get the first newcomer slot?

 

[Sucumbio]

Okay, I guess there was a bit of gore lol. It’s hard to remember every part of the movie even I’ve seen it at least 5 times. Still, I remember seeing it in theaters with my family when I was still a kid and I don’t remember having any issues with it. I was 11 at the time and my brother was 8.

At the same time, I remember my brother and I were really into the Alien and Predator movies at an even younger age and those were definitely gory so I don’t know what that says about us lol.

Lol! My first time seeing Aliens was on a network broadcast (so edited to heck and back) and I still found it very scary. I think I was maybe 10. Prolly my first rated R movie that I watched all the way through.

But to tie it back into the discussion I believe it's definitely possible for gory source material to make it's way into Smash. Fatal Frame has some super disturbing imagery in their games and it's quite an intense experience. Because of the presentation it's not inappropriate for a family friendly title, and I agree MK could be similarly toned down.

 

[Lionfranky]

I'm just saying it's strange to say that Master Chief is more likely than Scorpion, even though Master Chief has like zero connection to Nintendo. I just don't think that should be overlooked.

Are we still at this stage?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Speaking of Western picks, did we ever establish if Geralt was eligible?

The Witcher 3 is Japan's best-selling western-developed RPG ever https://t.co/YfEjkGrc6N pic.twitter.com/1bK945Brlf

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) January 6, 2023

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Speaking of Western picks, did we ever establish if Geralt was eligible?

The Witcher 3 is Japan's best-selling western-developed RPG ever https://t.co/YfEjkGrc6N pic.twitter.com/1bK945Brlf

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) January 6, 2023

Not a video game character. Started off as a book character. So he's out.

 

[Batkelley]

Speaking of Western picks, did we ever establish if Geralt was eligible?

The Witcher 3 is Japan's best-selling western-developed RPG ever https://t.co/YfEjkGrc6N pic.twitter.com/1bK945Brlf

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) January 6, 2023

I don't know, was it ever established that originating from a video game is a hard rule, or is it just an assumption based on the characters we have so far?

 

[Gengar84]

I have pretty much no issues with any characters getting into Smash. I’d prefer they at least put a little more weight on legacy with Nintendo but I don’t think that should be a requirement if the character is popular enough. What I do think is a bit silly is the notion that a minor cameo appearance on a Nintendo console should amount to anything. The reason for that criteria should be to make sure those characters resonate with fans of Nintendo’s consoles. Otherwise, what purpose does that restriction serve at all? Having a minor appearance that most people aren’t aware of doesn’t really do that. I don’t think Master Chief, who appeared as a MineCraft skin on Switch should be really any different that someone like Arthas, who has never appeared at all.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Speaking of Western picks, did we ever establish if Geralt was eligible?

The Witcher 3 is Japan's best-selling western-developed RPG ever https://t.co/YfEjkGrc6N pic.twitter.com/1bK945Brlf

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) January 6, 2023

Oh dear god Sora and Kawashima make this difficult. If it weren’t for The Witcher being kind of a Copyright Nightmare I’d say he’d be eligible on the technicality that Kawashima showed up as an Assist Trophy under.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If we count "non video game franchises that had games on Nintendo consoles" (even if it was never released outside of their respective country of origin), then a handful of them are completely ruled out.

 

[dezeray112]

More single player content would been nice.

The only one we had was World of Light.

This makes me miss the old "Break the Targets" mode and "Board the Platforms" mode from the older Smash games that I can remember.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

More single player content would been nice.

The only one we had was World of Light.

This makes me miss the old "Break the Targets" mode and "Board the Platforms" mode from the older Smash games that I can remember.

Pray for a Deluxe Edition of Ultimate down the road.

 

[fogbadge]

View attachment 366111
Are we still at this stage?

the theatrhythm games are obscure?

I don't know, was it ever established that originating from a video game is a hard rule, or is it just an assumption based on the characters we have so far?

yes. it came sakurai

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like Geralt falls in the same category as Turok and Lu Bu. None of them originated in games but their gaming appearances are so iconic and many people these days primarily know of them because of the games.

 

[dezeray112]

Other than that, I am highly interested to see where the character roster will go for the next Smash, will it continue on from Ultimate's roster or will there be any cuts?

 

[HyperSomari64]

I feel like Geralt falls in the same category as Turok and Lu Bu. None of them originated in games but their gaming appearances are so iconic and many people these days primarily know of them because of the games.

The difference is that Romance of The Three Kingdoms is on the Public Domain (like Bram Stoker's Dracula) so he is still eligible.
Geralt and Turok are still copyrighted characters so that's a no-no (Turok is owned by Classic Media, who is owned by Universal. If the next Smash has content from the Mario movie, then it's more plausible to have representation) /j

 

[JOJONumber691]

Other than that, I am highly interested to see where the character roster will go for the next Smash, will it continue on from Ultimate's roster or will there be any cuts?

There will be cuts. And anyone who thinks there won’t be is likely in denial lol.

 

[Mamboo07]

Other than that, I am highly interested to see where the character roster will go for the next Smash, will it continue on from Ultimate's roster or will there be any cuts?

Most likely cuts.

 

[Gengar84]

The difference is that Romance of The Three Kingdoms is on the Public Domain (like Bram Stoker's Dracula) so he is still eligible.
Geralt and Turok are still copyrighted characters so that's a no-no (Turok is owned by Classic Media, who is owned by Universal. If the next Smash has content from the Mario movie, then it's more plausible to have representation) /j

That’s a fair point. I’m still crossing my fingers for Lu Bu in Smash but Turok would have been fun too if he were eligible.

 

[Batkelley]

Wait a minute, didn't Shin Megami Tensei technically start out as a book series? And if Persona is a spinoff of SMT, then hasn't that rule technically been broken already?

 

[fogbadge]

Wait a minute, didn't Shin Megami Tensei technically start out as a book series? And if Persona is a spinoff of SMT, then hasn't that rule technically been broken already?

nope cause it’s the characters not the franchises

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wait a minute, didn't Shin Megami Tensei technically start out as a book series? And if Persona is a spinoff of SMT, then hasn't that rule technically been broken already?

Persona is officially a separate franchise. SMT is the only one to originate from a book. Spin-offs can vary depending on one’s view, but Persona originated as a game series in itself, as well as any of its stuff was first from a game.

 

[Gengar84]

nope cause it’s the characters not the franchises

Does that mean Android 21 or Starkiller are eligible for Smash? On the flip side, if mainline SMT started out as a book, doesn’t that make any characters from it ineligible? I remember the SMTV protagonist was pretty heavily speculated at one point.

Either way, I think the criteria for eligibility can be pretty flexible and change at any time. It all depends on what Nintendo, Sakurai, and the fans want at that time. I’m not one to ever write off any character, no matter how unlikely they might seem right now.

 

[MrMcNuts]

The question is....who would get the first newcomer slot?

Guess I'll be the first to make a (self fulfilling) suggestion

 

[fogbadge]

Does that mean Android 21 or Starkiller are eligible for Smash? On the flip side, if mainline SMT started out as a book, doesn’t that make any characters from it ineligible? I remember the SMTV protagonist was pretty heavily speculated at one point.

well sakurai was referring specifically to characters when he made this claim so really it comes down to them. I certainly recall android 21 being a particular bug bear of someone against sora

 

[osby]

Wait a minute, didn't Shin Megami Tensei technically start out as a book series? And if Persona is a spinoff of SMT, then hasn't that rule technically been broken already?

Not really, no.

While ATLUS's adaptation of Aya Ni****ani's Digital Devil Story novels indeed share the same setting and characters as the books, thus making them adaptation of said books, Shin Megami Tensei is a separate series they created so that they could reuse the foundations they created in the games without them being Ni****ani's intellectual property.

Persona is a distinct franchise since its origin (and only carries the "Shin Megami Tensei" subtitle in the Western localizations), thus it's not a direct spin-off of the Shin Megami Tensei franchise - which is also not technically a book adaptation unlike say, the Witcher games.

EDIT: Smashboards auto-censor, please chill

 

[Perkilator]

The question is....who would get the first newcomer slot?

If they wanted to win back people who were disappointed by the final roster, Waluigi might be a good first pick.

 

[HyperSomari64]

ignore this

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think this E3 would be the first time in which serious talk about a new game could be heard but I bet it will be a definitive version of Ultimate with a few new characters to round it out to a full roster of exactly 100 characters. The true next Smash is probably years off and definitely on the next console, so a Definitive port for the new console makes perfect sense. Still, Nintendo doesn't always make sense so who knows.

I wouldn't expect any Smash related announcement until they make a Nintendo direct focused on Switch 2 game or wathever Nintendo's next gen is called. I really don't think Nintendo would make a Ultimate definitive edition on Switch.

 

[osby]

If they wanted to win back people who were disappointed by the final roster, Waluigi might be a good first pick.

If some people are somehow still displeased with Ultimate's final roster, they're going to be displeased with a definite port, too.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's Final Roster is likely too Ungrateful or Too Old to care about the Roster of a Definitive Port. This game is bordering on Meme Levels of a Massive Roster. This is the Game where Steve can fight Sephiroth while Sora defends a Pichu from Snake on Green Hill Zone. This game's Roster is never getting topped again and I genuinely don't understand anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's roster.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Here are my 5 picks for each party for the next Smash
Nintendo:
Bandana Waddle Dee
Raven Beak
Akira Howard
Wolf Link with Midna
Noah (Mio as an echo)

Third Party:
Crash Bandicoot
Rayman
Doom Slayer
Scorpion (Sub Zero as an echo)
Tails or Dr. Eggman

 

[Wonder Smash]

View attachment 366111
Are we still at this stage?

That's obviously been the case.

Oh wait, are we supposed to be at a stage where it's:

Sakurai: I might have had misgivings if Cloud had never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form, though.

"That means any character can get in without being on a Nintendo console in any form."

That's where we're at now?

Wait a minute, didn't Shin Megami Tensei technically start out as a book series? And if Persona is a spinoff of SMT, then hasn't that rule technically been broken already?

The part about Persona has already been addressed but even with the SMT series, this would only apply to the first game, After that, everything else pretty much all originated from the video games.

Does that mean Android 21 or Starkiller are eligible for Smash? On the flip side, if mainline SMT started out as a book, doesn’t that make any characters from it ineligible? I remember the SMTV protagonist was pretty heavily speculated at one point.

Either way, I think the criteria for eligibility can be pretty flexible and change at any time. It all depends on what Nintendo, Sakurai, and the fans want at that time. I’m not one to ever write off any character, no matter how unlikely they might seem right now.

Any character that comes from a video game is eligible and as for the SMT series, the first game was based on a book but I think everything else after that was all original to the video games.

I say even Chase McCain from Lego City Undercover is eligible for Smash because even though it's based on a toy brand, the character and his world originated from a video game and that could just be the only thing he could represent.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Anthrax the Unicorn from Shrek Super Slam for Smash.