Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[NintenZ]

Geralt of Riveria is in a complicated situation

now there is an argument that could be made that The Witcher games by CD Projekt Red fall under the adaptation umbrella so you could say the version of Geralt from those games is original to those.

Conversely you could argue it’s based off a book series and as a result Geralt falls under that umbrella instead.

Either way it’s up to whatever Sakurai thinks but it’s something to consider.

 

[PeridotGX]

Speaking of Western picks, did we ever establish if Geralt was eligible?

The Witcher 3 is Japan's best-selling western-developed RPG ever https://t.co/YfEjkGrc6N pic.twitter.com/1bK945Brlf

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) January 6, 2023

Hot take time: Geralt should be allowed . The Witcher games are just so much more iconic than the books, and W3 is one of the most beloved games of all time. Hell, Fortnite counts him as a video game character so it's not unprecedented.

 

[HyperSomari64]

and W3 is one of the most beloved games of all time.

There were many beloved licensed video games through the ages (Ducktales, Turtles in Time, GoldenEye, heck even E.T. for the Atari 2600 (even if the game had some dark legacy in gaming's history)), and that doesn't mean their respective characters can join Smash.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

If they wanted to win back people who were disappointed by the final roster, Waluigi might be a good first pick.

Crash might be a good way to throw surprises at them

 

[Gengar84]

There were many beloved licensed video games through the ages (Ducktales, Turtles in Time, GoldenEye, heck even E.T. for the Atari 2600 (even if the game had some dark legacy in gaming's history)), and that doesn't mean their respective characters can join Smash.

I definitely wouldn’t complain about seeing the TMNT in Smash. It’s my favorite franchise of all time and they already had a Smash clone by some of the same developers. Not that there’s much a chance at all but I’d think they’d be near the top of the list if Smash ever branches out to include characters that debuted outside of gaming (which I’m not holding my breath on).

 

[PeridotGX]

There were many beloved licensed video games through the ages (Ducktales, Turtles in Time, GoldenEye, heck even E.T. for the Atari 2600 (even if the game had some dark legacy in gaming's history)), and that doesn't mean their respective characters can join Smash.

Honestly **** it they can join too. I think that people are sticking too hard to the letter and missing the meaning. Smash should be a celebration of gaming, Witcher is a key part of gaming, ergo it should be allowed in the celebration.

 

[Batkelley]

There were many beloved licensed video games through the ages (Ducktales, Turtles in Time, GoldenEye, heck even E.T. for the Atari 2600 (even if the game had some dark legacy in gaming's history)), and that doesn't mean their respective characters can join Smash.

I feel like the situation with those games is a bit different. In those cases, they are all adaptations of very well known preexisting franchises, many of the people who played them were already fans of the properties they were based on.
But in the case of The Witcher, the games are by far more well known than the novels, to the point where I think that most people who have read the books by now have done so because they were fans of the games, rather than the other way around.

 

[fogbadge]

Honestly **** it they can join too. I think that people are sticking too hard to the letter and missing the meaning. Smash should be a celebration of gaming, Witcher is a key part of gaming, ergo it should be allowed in the celebration.

i think you're forgetting that we're playing by sakurai's rules

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's Final Roster is likely too Ungrateful or Too Old to care about the Roster of a Definitive Port. This game is bordering on Meme Levels of a Massive Roster. This is the Game where Steve can fight Sephiroth while Sora defends a Pichu from Snake on Green Hill Zone. This game's Roster is never getting topped again and I genuinely don't understand anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's roster.

That's not a fair statement, whatsoever. It'd certainly be a stretch to say Ultimate had nothing going for it. But to say that people who were unsatisfied with the final setup of fighters were ungrateful for what Ultimate did blankets the opposition into one category, and that simply isn't true. People can like a lot of the choices made in the roster and still be left cold with other decisions it made.

 

[Gengar84]

Really, it’s up to Sakurai and Nintendo to determine what is and isn’t eligible and they can change their views at any time. That’s why I’m not really going to stress myself with all the little details. We can’t always go by precedent and assume things will always stay the same. Smash has managed to surprise us and shatter our expectations with every game.

 

[JOJONumber691]

That's not a fair statement, whatsoever. It'd certainly be a stretch to say Ultimate had nothing going for it. But to say that people who were unsatisfied with the final setup of fighters were ungrateful for what Ultimate did blankets the opposition into one category, and that simply isn't true. People can like a lot of the choices made in the roster and still be left cold with other decisions it made.

Yeah, there are even some characters I disagree with being here (Olimar), but when you look at the full picture and think of the Legal Miracle it is that this game even exists, there's a reason why I feel they are a little ungrateful.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, there are even some characters I disagree with being here (Olimar), but when you look at the full picture and think of the Legal Miracle it is that this game even exists, there's a reason why I feel they are a little ungrateful.

what’s wrong with olimar?

 

[JOJONumber691]

what’s wrong with olimar?

Too out there even for Sakurai and his Fatherly Nature towards the Pikmin makes it really hard to design him around not killing his Pikmin, which ultimately leads to an Unfun Design to Fight and a Moveset that completely goes against the entire character of Olimar. It's like if the entire point of Playing as Papyrus was to kill him so you can use Sans. That goes against the entire point of Undertale.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Honestly **** it they can join too.

So, ANYONE CAN JOIN!?

Characters that have a chance for a future Smash Bros game:
1. Stone Cold Steve Austin
2. SMG4
3. Nigel Thornberry
4. Sleet and Dingo (Sonic Underground)
5. Weird "Al" Yankovic
6. Iggy and Spike (SMB Movie)
7. Mike Wazowski (Monsters Inc.)

/s

 

[Diddy Kong]

Too out there even for Sakurai and his Fatherly Nature towards the Pikmin makes it really hard to design him around not killing his Pikmin, which ultimately leads to an Unfun Design to Fight and a Moveset that completely goes against the entire character of Olimar. It's like if the entire point of Playing as Papyrus was to kill him so you can use Sans. That goes against the entire point of Undertale.

Isn't it the same case with Rosalina and Luma ?

 

[Gengar84]

So, ANYONE CAN JOIN!?

Characters that have a chance for a future Smash Bros game:
1. Stone Cold Steve Austin
2. SMG4
3. Nigel Thornberry
4. Sleet and Dingo (Sonic Underground)
5. Weird "Al" Yankovic
6. Iggy and Spike (SMB Movie)
7. Mike Wazowski (Monsters Inc.)

/s

Anybody here want to see old Stone Cold whoop Pikachu’s butt give me a heck yeah!

What!?

And that’s the bottom line ‘cause Stone Cold said so!

Really, Austin would be hilarious in Smash just for his taunts and victories. Not to mention the thought of stunning and mudhole stomping characters.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Isn't it the same case with Rosalina and Luma ?

At least there Sakurai made it work because there's only one and it's big enough to not Hinder Animation AND Rosalina is objectively worse without it because there goes your Immunity to Shield Breaks on a Light, Tall character who lacks half of her Specials and a Kill Move. I think it could be better portrayed, but at least with Rosalina, you can make it work. Pikmin Combat is literally "throw Pikmin until the enemy dies lol", considering the size of the Hoards is usually at least 10 in Pikmin, which can fundamentally not work in a Fighting Game. That's why I genuinely think Olimar shouldn't be here. Add a Bulborb or Luie and then you've solved the problem because Olimar just straight up doesn't work.

 

[dezeray112]

Most likely cuts.

So let's say there could be the possibility of characters being cut for the next Smash, which one(s) do you think are in danger?

 

[JOJONumber691]

So let's say there could be the possibility of characters being cut for the next Smash, which one(s) do you think are in danger?

Sephiroth is gone immediately lmfao!!!!!!!!!

 

[PeridotGX]

So, ANYONE CAN JOIN!?

Characters that have a chance for a future Smash Bros game:
1. Stone Cold Steve Austin
2. SMG4
3. Nigel Thornberry
4. Sleet and Dingo (Sonic Underground)
5. Weird "Al" Yankovic
6. Iggy and Spike (SMB Movie)
7. Mike Wazowski (Monsters Inc.)

/s

My claim was simply that characters important to gaming should be allowed in Smash, regardless of their origins. Fairly certain none of these are particularly relevant to the industry.

 

[Gengar84]

View attachment 366138
My claim was simply that characters important to gaming should be allowed in Smash, regardless of their origins. Fairly certain none of these are particularly relevant to the industry.

Hey, don’t kill my dream of Stone Cold in Smash just as it’s getting started.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Too out there even for Sakurai and his Fatherly Nature towards the Pikmin makes it really hard to design him around not killing his Pikmin, which ultimately leads to an Unfun Design to Fight and a Moveset that completely goes against the entire character of Olimar. It's like if the entire point of Playing as Papyrus was to kill him so you can use Sans. That goes against the entire point of Undertale.

Somehow, I don't think Olimar purposely putting Pikmin into dangerous life threatening situations to accomplish a goal isn't out of character. He does that all the time. Even if he cares about them, he doesn't care about them more than surviving and making it back home. Olimar is a survivalist, not an all loving hero like Sora or Mario. Heck, he'll do it even when survival isn't on the line in Pikmin 2.

Olimar and the Pikmin have a symbiotic relationship. It isn't one born out of altruism or fatherly love.

You can say he's unfun, but Smash's integration of the Olimar and Pikmin relationship seems pretty accurate to me.

 

[PeridotGX]

Hey, don’t kill my dream of Stone Cold in Smash just as it’s getting started.

The problem is just that he isn't important to gaming. I've already commissioned FromSoft to make a game starring him so we should be good

 

[AinsOoalGown]

Olimar is great, the absurdity of how the Pikmin are sacrificed plays into its strangeness and fits the og game concept

That's not a fair statement, whatsoever. It'd certainly be a stretch to say Ultimate had nothing going for it. But to say that people who were unsatisfied with the final setup of fighters were ungrateful for what Ultimate did blankets the opposition into one category, and that simply isn't true. People can like a lot of the choices made in the roster and still be left cold with other decisions it made.

Theres a big difference tho between disliking certain characters lacking or certain moves choice and people disliking the final roster itself to the point they need to be "won back" in the port to make up for it, which I assume is what that post is refering to, anyone on the latter is definetly ungrateful and petty

 

[fogbadge]

Too out there even for Sakurai and his Fatherly Nature towards the Pikmin makes it really hard to design him around not killing his Pikmin, which ultimately leads to an Unfun Design to Fight and a Moveset that completely goes against the entire character of Olimar. It's like if the entire point of Playing as Papyrus was to kill him so you can use Sans. That goes against the entire point of Undertale.

you lost me at the end

 

[Wonder Smash]

The question is....who would get the first newcomer slot?

Might as well be Ryu Hayabusa!

 

[Stratos]

Might as well be Ryu Hayabusa!

He's one of the many characters I'd like to see introduced in future Super Smash Bros. games.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So, ANYONE CAN JOIN!?

Characters that have a chance for a future Smash Bros game:
1. Stone Cold Steve Austin

JR: BAH GAWD, KING! IT'S STONE COLD! STONE COLD! HE'S COMING TO SMASH BROS TO WHOOP SOME ASSES!


Now THAT is gonna put asses in the seat! I'd legit go for Brock Lesnar since the game has a German suplex lol


All jokes aside, I feel asking for 4th party is breaking the 4th wall of the series.

 

[Zerp]

Anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's Final Roster is likely too Ungrateful or Too Old to care about the Roster of a Definitive Port. This game is bordering on Meme Levels of a Massive Roster. This is the Game where Steve can fight Sephiroth while Sora defends a Pichu from Snake on Green Hill Zone. This game's Roster is never getting topped again and I genuinely don't understand anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's roster.

Eh, I was "unsatisfied" with the final roster and literally think it's good at the same time. Sometimes things can be very good and just aren't meant for you. I don't believe recognizing that makes me petty or ungrateful. Like, I see the roster's merit and appreciate how it makes so many people happy, it just doesn't have much personal appeal for me. And that's all there is to it really, I don't see it as some slight against me or anything either.

Really, it’s up to Sakurai and Nintendo to determine what is and isn’t eligible and they can change their views at any time. That’s why I’m not really going to stress myself with all the little details. We can’t always go by precedent and assume things will always stay the same. Smash has managed to surprise us and shatter our expectations with every game.

Agreed, and it might not even be Sakurai next time so everything we supposedly know is up in the air really. I can't predict who Mystery Director 9000 thinks is and isn't eligible lol

So let's say there could be the possibility of characters being cut for the next Smash, which one(s) do you think are in danger?

Third parties in general, especially the Square Enix characters. For first parties the ones most at risk are characters who aren't clones and are in big rotating casts. Stuff like Aegis, Corrin, Incineroar, and Byleth basically.

 

[NintenZ]

Anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's Final Roster is likely too Ungrateful or Too Old to care about the Roster of a Definitive Port. This game is bordering on Meme Levels of a Massive Roster. This is the Game where Steve can fight Sephiroth while Sora defends a Pichu from Snake on Green Hill Zone. This game's Roster is never getting topped again and I genuinely don't understand anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's roster.

It’s 2023 and we’re still unironically using “Ungrateful” to describe people’s dissatisfaction with a product have I been sent back seven years?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Eh, I was "unsatisfied" with the final roster and literally think it's good at the same time. Sometimes things can be very good and just aren't meant for you. I don't believe recognizing that makes me petty or ungrateful. Like, I see the roster's merit and appreciate how it makes so many people happy, it just doesn't have much personal appeal for me. And that's all there is to it really, I don't see it as some slight against me or anything either.


Agreed, and it might not even be Sakurai next time so everything we supposedly know is up in the air really. I can't predict who Mystery Director 9000 thinks is and isn't eligible lol


Third parties in general, especially the Square Enix characters. For first parties the ones most at risk are characters who aren't clones and are in big rotating casts. Stuff like Aegis, Corrin, Incineroar, and Byleth basically.

Honestly, I don't think Aegis at risk of being cut. Xenoblade still has two (technically three) characters and they haven't reached the "critical mass" that Pokemon and Fire Emblem have. It helps that Shulk, Pyra, and Mythra are some of the most popular Xenoblade characters though.

 

[fogbadge]

It’s 2023 and we’re still unironically using “Ungrateful” to describe people’s dissatisfaction with a product have I been sent back seven years?

yes

 

[NintenZ]

I’m personally fine with Ultimate’s roster even if there is some characters I’d still like but like guys if someone isn’t that’s fine it’s just their opinion that doesn’t make them “entitled” or “spoiled” because you are paying for this product and have the discretion to choose to say whatever you feel about it.

Jesus why am I even having to say this I thought people moved past labeling others.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I’m personally fine with Ultimate’s roster even if there is some characters I’d still like but like guys if someone isn’t that’s fine it’s just their opinion that doesn’t make them “entitled” or “spoiled” because you are paying for this product and have the discretion to choose to say whatever you feel about it.

Jesus why am I even having to say this I thought people moved past labeling others.

We're Smash fans, we never learn...

 

[Zerp]

Honestly, I don't think Aegis at risk of being cut. Xenoblade still has two (technically three) characters and they haven't reached the "critical mass" that Pokemon and Fire Emblem have. It helps that Shulk, Pyra, and Mythra are some of the most popular Xenoblae characters though.

Yeah, that's fair reasoning. In retrospect Pyra and Mythra are like an entire tier less likely to get axed than the others I listed lol.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I’m personally fine with Ultimate’s roster even if there is some characters I’d still like but like guys if someone isn’t that’s fine it’s just their opinion that doesn’t make them “entitled” or “spoiled” because you are paying for this product and have the discretion to choose to say whatever you feel about it.

Jesus why am I even having to say this I thought people moved past labeling others.

I think it's less of the "what" or "why," and more of the "how."

So many people don't have the skills to express disappointment without coming off as aggressive, nasty or whiny.

Things like:"I didn't get a single character I want," or "The online is atrociously bad," are generally accepted.

It's when people say stuff like "Sakurai is a hack. He doesn't care about fans. If he cared, they'd include X character. This game is dog****," that the criticism is no longer coming from good intentions.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

So, ANYONE CAN JOIN!?

Characters that have a chance for a future Smash Bros game:
1. Stone Cold Steve Austin
2. SMG4
3. Nigel Thornberry
4. Sleet and Dingo (Sonic Underground)
5. Weird "Al" Yankovic
6. Iggy and Spike (SMB Movie)
7. Mike Wazowski (Monsters Inc.)

/s

Honestly when it comes to character selection, i think it's best to have a line drawn and having origination from video game media is the best line to start to keep things getting too ridiculous and memetic. If Nintendo and Sakurai want Smash to be the "celebration of video games" then it actually has to be about Video Games. Plus, there are so many characters and franchises that originated from video games haven't been represent, I really don't want them to become overshadowed by 4th Party picks just for sake of being iconic or for dah memez like SMG4 and Mike. Doesn't even get the former either, he really is a fan OC than a character

That's doesn't even mention the amount of hell licensing will be if it was possible. I think that was the main reason against 4th Parties was even only rule that was officially stated to in the first place to curb nonsensical expectations

Characters like Geralt and Android 21 i think would be able to slip through the crack if possible as despite their franchise origin, they both ultimately originated as video game characters but i will say in terms of representation, they can represent the side of franchise they can that fits with video games i.e if Android 21 gets in, she only represent content exclusively from the Dragon Ball games like Heroes etc, Geralt from Witcher 3 only etc.

Anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's Final Roster is likely too Ungrateful or Too Old to care about the Roster of a Definitive Port. This game is bordering on Meme Levels of a Massive Roster. This is the Game where Steve can fight Sephiroth while Sora defends a Pichu from Snake on Green Hill Zone. This game's Roster is never getting topped again and I genuinely don't understand anyone unsatisfied with Ultimate's roster.

A Nintendo/Smash Fan unable to handle to criticism, resorting to fanboyism and deflect using the same bot response of "Be grateful"? Another day ending with Y.

Sorry to brake it to ya but when came to DLC, other than few picks, it and overall direction sucked.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Nintendo Trading Card Stickers.

Four series make up these stickers but only three of them are represented in Smash. We need to get that last, fourth one in Smash now.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Double Dragon is one of those odd IP's in that its strongly associated with the NES, has had virtually every mainline game released on a Nintendo console, and has a legacy as the pioneer of beat em up titles... but it being so surpassed in popularity (and many would say quality) by the likes of Final Fight and Streets of Rage, has often rendered it as the "Oh yeah that one" of video game franchises even with Smash speculation. Its a bit like Bubble Bobble, where many of those games (and its spin-offs) have been all over Nintendo consoles, but feel kinda there in terms of discussion, SSB related or otherwise.

 

[Quillion]

For first parties the ones most at risk are characters who aren't clones and are in big rotating casts. Stuff like Aegis, Corrin, Incineroar, and Byleth basically.

Why would even they be cut? They can just recycle their models (give-or-take some polish work) forever.

Honestly, I don't think Aegis at risk of being cut. Xenoblade still has two (technically three) characters and they haven't reached the "critical mass" that Pokemon and Fire Emblem have. It helps that Shulk, Pyra, and Mythra are some of the most popular Xenoblade characters though.

Yeah, that's fair reasoning. In retrospect Pyra and Mythra are like an entire tier less likely to get axed than the others I listed lol.

Can there even be a "critical mass" for the roster? This isn't Pokémon where having a thousand or so models for Pokémon, even with only two animations each, was inevitably not going to work (poorly publicized/handled as it was). Someone's going to have to (re)post how much storage all of the files of a character takes, but I'm sure the storage space for whatever media Nintendo will use for its consoles will always outpace the roster ambitions.

That said, I'll happily take a "what's done is done" position on character already in, but something definitely needs to change about how these "rotating cast" franchises are handled. Maybe arresting the whole trend of "new face from newest game" was too much, but we need better choices beyond Pokémon starters, Fire Emblem lords, and yes, red sword-wielding Xenoblade protags.