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Well, given how much you never shut up about Neptune, I wouldn't be surprised if you got in and you somehow weren't surprised.Does Neptune counts as a "surprise" character?
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Well, given how much you never shut up about Neptune, I wouldn't be surprised if you got in and you somehow weren't surprised.Does Neptune counts as a "surprise" character?
That is totally because the majority of his efforts were used up preventing the addition of any modern Kirby content and browsing the popular tab of shared content stage builder. My aunt's seagull who works at Nintendo told me this.once again i feel the smash fans are putting far more thought into something than sakurai ever did
In fairness G&W does have a huge legacyThat doesn't take away Ice Climbers are weird choices in a Smash game that didn't yet have Diddy, Wario, Dedede, Charizard and the like. NES retro rep is a cute idea of course, but the fundamental characters where ignored for crazy gimmick characters as ICs, G&W and Sheik in Melee.
Maybe they wanted to represent a wider variety of Nintendo games? Without Ice Climbers, the only new series in Melee were Fire Emblem (a then-Japan-exclusive series that they apparently considered removing for the releases outside of Japan, from what I recall) and Game & Watch. I guess they wanted to bring back a relatively unknown old-school title that would allow for an interesting gameplay gimmick.That doesn't take away Ice Climbers are weird choices in a Smash game that didn't yet have Diddy, Wario, Dedede, Charizard and the like. NES retro rep is a cute idea of course, but the fundamental characters where ignored for crazy gimmick characters as ICs, G&W and Sheik in Melee.
If Marth and Roy got replaced in the western release. What characters could replace them? And what changes canbe on the Melee competitive scene?the only new series in Melee were Fire Emblem (a then-Japan-exclusive series that they apparently considered removing for the releases outside of Japan, from what I recall)
They would have been removed, not replaced. The west would have just gotten two fewer characters, not replacements.If Marth and Roy got replaced in the western release. What characters could replace them? And what changes canbe on the Melee competitive scene?
Aw man! if Melee got a greater time development, i wish their replacements could be from the Western games made by Nintendo like StarTropics or UniRacers.They would have been removed, not replaced. The west would have just gotten two fewer characters, not replacements.
Hey, at least the Akaneia Build exists. Not sure if Wario is there?Going back to Melee, if had more time, I'd at the very least add Wario and Diddy Kong.
Wario was a character Sakurai strongly considered, at the very least.Hey, at least the Akaneia Build exists. Not sure if Wario is there?
well no cause the courts forbade them from using uniracers ever againAw man! if Melee got a greater time development, i wish their replacements could be from the Western games made by Nintendo like StarTropics or UniRacers.
Not to rain on your parade, but even if it did have a longer development time, would they really replace Marth and Roy with characters from StarTropics and UniRacers? Those guys would require completely different models and animations from the rest of the roster, and that's ignoring the fact that they'd probably wanna just use simple reskins for Marth and Roy and just go with somebody who'd fit those models without looking awkward.Aw man! if Melee got a greater time development, i wish their replacements could be from the Western games made by Nintendo like StarTropics or UniRacers.
Someone name two characters that can fill the "Marth and Roy re-skins for SSBM's Western release if it ot a longer development time" criteria.simple reskins for Marth and Roy
The argument was about the circumstances under which these characters were chosen by Sakurai, and the scope of what was considered for those characters' respective slots (i.e. the relative weight that the surprise factor and the retro factor were given in choosing them); I don't think the marketing team necessarily gives much answer to that.Never forget that the Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt amiibo release was officially billed as the Retro 3 Pack. At least from a marketing standpoint, the term has been officially used to refer to more than just the Ice Climbers. Nintendo is more than obviously aware of the fan perception toward these types of characters.
Another thing I'll add is that the Retro 3-pack was for NA only from what I can find, the three were sold separately in Japan. So you also have to consider the point of how much was that on the western marketing team vs. Sakurai's own input.The argument was about the circumstances under which these characters were chosen by Sakurai, and the scope of what was considered for those characters' respective slots (i.e. the relative weight that the surprise factor and the retro factor were given in choosing them); I don't think the marketing team necessarily gives much answer to that.
Ya tbh Melee's roster doesn't get enough retrospective criticism. Like, the game was super-rushed and it showed. Obviously this is not how things actually could have worked in practice, but imagine replacing every single clone in that game with a unique character. Suddenly, it looks a lot better IMO with that same raw roster size. Again, not saying we could have actually realistically got that, but it gives an idea of how much better a roster of that general size could hypothetically look. While the past is in the past, the unfortunate part IMO is that, by bringing back the odd ducks (clones or not) from that roster over and over, we're needlessly keeping ourselves tied down to those circumstantial constraints that really shouldn't be factors anymore.That doesn't take away Ice Climbers are weird choices in a Smash game that didn't yet have Diddy, Wario, Dedede, Charizard and the like. NES retro rep is a cute idea of course, but the fundamental characters where ignored for crazy gimmick characters as ICs, G&W and Sheik in Melee.
Uniracer as a playable character sounds fun but pretty sure it would cause Pixar to sue it again for dumb reasonsAw man! if Melee got a greater time development, i wish their replacements could be from the Western games made by Nintendo like StarTropics or UniRacers.
Rocket was developed by Sucker Punch, and i'm pretty sure SIE has the IP on it's portfolio.However the only possible unicycle character is Rocket from Rocket Robot on the wheel its a Ubisoft character and his game released exclusively on n64 but I don’t think there is any chance for that one
Oh now it’s sounds strange rocket is a Sony character who is exclusive to Nintendo consoleRocket was developed by Sucker Punch, and i'm pretty sure SIE has the IP on it's portfolio.
Not as weird as Rareware before being acquired by Microsoft.Oh now it’s sounds strange rocket is a Sony character who is exclusive to Nintendo console
Difference is old rareware games did release in XboxNot as weird as Rareware before being acquired by Microsoft.
Or as weird as... um...Not as weird as Rareware before being acquired by Microsoft.
Personally, I'm gonna blame Jim Ryan and his supposed disdain towards rereleasing old games.Difference is old rareware games did release in Xbox
Meanwhile Rocket Is still pretty much on n64
He wouldn't be the only one. There's also Skyblazer, which I think is also a Sony IP that's exclusive to a Nintendo console (specially the SNES).Oh now it’s sounds strange rocket is a Sony character who is exclusive to Nintendo console
taps micThe Switch port of Crash N'Sane Trilogy has the interesting distinction of being a Nintendo game with a character once exclusive to Sony, now owned by Microsfot, and (for the Japanese release) published by Sega.
So a japanese copy of N. Sane Trilogy is the definition of Coexist?The Switch port of Crash N'Sane Trilogy has the interesting distinction of being a Nintendo game with a character once exclusive to Sony, now owned by Microsfot, and (for the Japanese release) published by Sega.
Clones aren't even the issue. It's that every newcomer but Peach, Bowser, Mewtwo and Marth was a weird one. And could've easily been Nintendo fundamental character as Diddy, Wario, Dedede or anyone of the likes.Ya tbh Melee's roster doesn't get enough retrospective criticism. Like, the game was super-rushed and it showed. Obviously this is not how things actually could have worked in practice, but imagine replacing every single clone in that game with a unique character. Suddenly, it looks a lot better IMO with that same raw roster size. Again, not saying we could have actually realistically got that, but it gives an idea of how much better a roster of that general size could hypothetically look. While the past is in the past, the unfortunate part IMO is that, by bringing back the odd ducks (clones or not) from that roster over and over, we're needlessly keeping ourselves tied down to those circumstantial constraints that really shouldn't be factors anymore.
Well, I think both the clones and the weird unique choices were issues. I mean, the clone choices are no less weird if you think about them. Falco was a sidekick-type character and the only other one of those was, like, Luigi, who is a way more obvious choice. Ganondorf being built off Falcon was weird. Roy had weird timing relative to the actual release of his game. Doc, YL, Pichu....well, getting clone variants of existing characters was not an obvious expectation at the time, either, especially when put next to the foundational characters that were absent.Clones aren't even the issue. It's that every newcomer but Peach, Bowser, Mewtwo and Marth was a weird one. And could've easily been Nintendo fundamental character as Diddy, Wario, Dedede or anyone of the likes.
Just replace ICs, G&W and Sheik with these characters and the roster looks a million times better even with the clones.
I disagree. In my opinion, the weird choices have as much right to be in the roster as the Nintendo fundamentals.Clones aren't even the issue. It's that every newcomer but Peach, Bowser, Mewtwo and Marth was a weird one. And could've easily been Nintendo fundamental character as Diddy, Wario, Dedede or anyone of the likes.
Just replace ICs, G&W and Sheik with these characters and the roster looks a million times better even with the clones.
I don't really see alot of criticism towards weird newcomers in original fighting games. I've hardly seen it with other crossovers, maybe because their fanbases aren't as big, maybe their fanbases are more open, though the moments do certainly happen from time to time. I remember Rocket Raccoon in regards to UMvC3 getting alot of criticism when the UMvC3 leak happened. That criticism died down a bit when the game released, but it really disappeared when Guardians of the Galaxy released and nobody complained about his return in MvCi.I disagree. In my opinion, the weird choices have as much right to be in the roster as the Nintendo fundamentals.
I swear to God, I don’t think I’ve seen any of this “retrospective criticism” BS in any other fighting game fanbase in regards to weird choices.
The only difference is that Smash is only a crossover for video games. As Marvel vs. Capcom only can feature characters from Marvel and Capcom. Seeing Superman and Iori in that franchise is like the "Goku for Smash" phenomenonA better comparison for smash would be something like marvel Vs capcom.
Get ready for a new world of adventures when #SuperNintendoWorld opens 2/17/23 @UniStudios! pic.twitter.com/kuntHbnY9V
— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) December 14, 2022
So does that make Cole MacGrath the "Goku" of Street Fighter X Tekken?The only difference is that Smash is only a crossover for video games. As Marvel vs. Capcom only can feature characters from Marvel and Capcom. Seeing Superman and Iori in that franchise is like the "Goku for Smash" phenomenon