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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

dream1ng

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Jul 24, 2016
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This is going to be controversial because she doesn't actually use this stuff herself, but I think the most interesting implementation of Pauline would be to draw primarily from the Mario vs. DK series (and a little bit from the original Donkey Kong), as a terrain control/trapper kind of moveset with use of Mario minis, girder creation and hammers, sort of like a mix between Steve, Bowser Jr and Dedede.

It'd be a different story if she had more to work with in Odyssey, but as it stands, it'd also be a nice way to represent that sub-series. Just an idea that won't become realized, though.
 

JOJONumber691

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Honestly yeah. I think her being a Trapper with Tricky Movement (DK '94 Mario was stupid acrobatic, same with the first Mario vs Donkey Kong) could be super interesting. Should probably swap out her heels before that lol.
 

Ornl

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  • 70’s: Space Invaders
  • 80’s: Bomberman
  • 90's: Game Boy* (because Tetris move), otherwise Chun-Li
  • 00’s: Bella Goth / (random) Sim from The Sims**
  • 10’s: Sans
  • 20’s: -
* something floating with Link Cable grab, Camera, cartridge, and cameos moves : BowWow, DK/Wario key, MissingNo, Tetris piece, Waddle Dee...
** something with mood gauge, needs, house wall, spontaneous buy, fire extinguisher...
 

PeridotGX

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This is not saying that a Pauline moveset can’t be done. Pac-Man coasts on arcade visuals and Pauline definitely has that between the arcade game and the metropolis named designed after it.
The tricky thing here is that there are better options for even this - I think if we wanted to give the classic DK arcade games a character, I think DK. Jr would be the better option.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I got a question I want to ask all you.

Would any of you be hyped for a Dynasty Warriors character? I've been playing Musou games recently nonstop and I think it would make for a great addition to Smash for a couple reasons:
  • The historical value. Dynasty Warriors started out as a weapons fighter, but DW2 is the game that set the formula for future Musou games with its gameplay focusing on traveling through a huge stage while wiping out hundreds of enemies using flashy combos and special attacks. It effectively created its own subgenre in the hack n slash world.
  • Moveset: The Dynasty Warriors games offer a variety of extremely cool and unique weapons to choose from that any character can wield (depending on the game). In Dynasty Warriors 8 alone, there are spears, pikes, halberds, maces, giant axes, curved swords, tridents, chain whips, etc. In addition in certain games you are able to apply elemental effects to weapons, such as fire, ice which can slow down enemies, and an electric element which has a chance of striking the enemies with lightning. The gameplay of DW would also transition over to Smash smoothly I feel. The series likes to emphasize combos that keeps your enemies juggled in the air. The exact nature of these combos would vary depending on who the rep is. For example if they went with Lu Bu, he is known for his long staff that he uses for wide, sweeping attacks and is generally infamous in the games for being foreboding to fight against.
Now I know some of you will say "Dynasty Warriors isn't happening because it's full of real people". But that may not actually be an issue. See, the characters in DW are exaggerated versions of their counterparts in the book, Romance of the Three Kingdoms. And even then, that novel takes its own liberties with the characters since this is ancient China we are talking about. We don't know exactly how these people were like back then. So when you consider that the Dynasty Warriors cast has been modified so much from their source, they are borderline original characters. So I do think a rep can happen, though I'm not sure they'd be more prioritized over someone like Hayabusa who is more requested.
Byleth, Link and Joker are already in the game lollmfao

(The heroes don't count because none of them are in the Dragon quest musou's)
 
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Stratos

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Shadow the Hedgehod as echo of Sonic in the future games of Super Smash Bros. series, it is requested by many fans to be done.
 

Pink Yoshi

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My current top 3 for next Smash game newcomers is Ribbon Girl (ARMS), Viridi (Kid Icarus Uprising) and Grima (Fire Emblem Awakening). If I were to list my entire top 10, we'd be here all day and I don't have that kind of time. Just know that if Kirby still gets the same danged final smash again even with all his current potential for new final smashes, likelyhood of me buying the game goes down by 10% :secretkpop:
 

dream1ng

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who's complaining? i was trying to suggest it wasn't controversial
Raise a character who could be unique but could also be a clone and see people pick apart how x doesn't actually do y like z does.

If your suggestion deviates from faithfulness, there's a chance people will complain. If the character in-game deviates from faithfulness, people kind of just shrug. A great example is people complained when it was suggested Knuckles could use the homing attack despite and after him using it as an AT.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Grima (Fire Emblem Awakening)
How would that work?

Grima is Robin unless you literally want the dragon that's big enough to have armies fight on his back.

At best I can only imagine a clone of Robin which doesn't sound very interesting. They don't even have different designs.
 

silenthunder

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How would that work?

Grima is Robin unless you literally want the dragon that's big enough to have armies fight on his back.

At best I can only imagine a clone of Robin which doesn't sound very interesting. They don't even have different designs.
Maybe she just likes the character.
Edit: I just saw the post where she said she liked Grima because she was unique (in a different thread) and I don't know anything about Fire Emblem so I can't comment
 
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Ivander

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How would that work?

Grima is Robin unless you literally want the dragon that's big enough to have armies fight on his back.

At best I can only imagine a clone of Robin which doesn't sound very interesting. They don't even have different designs.
I mean....he is smaller in Echoes, but this is Awakening Grima we're talking about.

Although the idea of a possessed Robin with Grima's floating head behind them in the vein of Ansem/Xehanort's Heartless and his Guardian would be rather hilarious visually.
 

silenthunder

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I mean....he is smaller in Echoes, but this is Awakening Grima we're talking about.

Although the idea of a possessed Robin with Grima's floating head behind them in the vein of Ansem/Xehanort's Heartless and his Guardian would be rather hilarious visually.
tipper Robin, lol /j
I'm sure there is a lot of things you could do with a mage to spice things up
 
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fogbadge

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Raise a character who could be unique but could also be a clone and see people pick apart how x doesn't actually do y like z does.

If your suggestion deviates from faithfulness, there's a chance people will complain. If the character in-game deviates from faithfulness, people kind of just shrug. A great example is people complained when it was suggested Knuckles could use the homing attack despite and after him using it as an AT.
hmm i suppose that is true. i've seen many a fan say we can't have character do something for similar reasons and then whenever you point to a character who would disprove this they claim its an exception. somehow
 

Laniv

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Apr 20, 2014
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Honestly yeah. I think her being a Trapper with Tricky Movement (DK '94 Mario was stupid acrobatic, same with the first Mario vs Donkey Kong) could be super interesting. Should probably swap out her heels before that lol.

FWIW, I did a Pauline moveset like that last year:


Jab: Slaps twice with her leading arm. Like Peach and Daisy's, but stronger and with a little more pop to it. 3%, 5%.
Forward Tilt: Takes off her hat and swats with it. 8%.
Up Tilt: Pauline jumps up with her fist in the air. It's that one motion she does during the New Donk City Festival. 4%.
Down Tilt: Swipes her leg low to the ground. 8%.
Dash Attack: Pauline spins around twice as she moves forward before posing with her hand up. 2.3% (first two hits), 6% (end).

Forward Smash: When this move is used, Pauline will take out a familiar looking hammer. There’s a sweetspot at the head of the hammer. 19% (head), 10% (handle).
Up Smash: Pauline pops up her parasol and opens it when it's above her. This move protects her from attacks from above. 3% (hit 1), 14% (hit 2).
Down Smash: Pauline throws her hat around her in a wide circle, leaving behind a rainbow trail. The hat spins around her twice, with a slightly bigger radius the second time around. 15% (max range), 11% (point blank).

Neutral Aerial: Pauline twirls her purse around her. The animation resembles Palutena's n-air. 1.5% (hits 1-4), 4.5% (hit 5).
Forward Aerial: Pauline takes her hat and swipes it downward, swinging her arm so hard she tumbles forward. This is very similar to Peach and Daisy’s f-air. 17% (hat), 14% (arm).
Back Aerial: Pauline takes her hat and swipes it backward while spinning, hitting twice. 4.7% (hit 1), 5.8% (hit 2).
Up Aerial: Pauline tosses her hat upwards a short distance. 7%.
Down Aerial: Pauline stomps downward with one leg. 8.1%.

Grab: Pauline grabs with one hand.
Pummel: Pauline knees the opponent. 1.4%.
Forward Throw: Pauline pushes the foe away with both hands. This causes the foe to trip, allowing for follow-ups. 4% (hit), 3% (throw).
Back Throw: Grabs the opponent by the arm, and forcibly yanks them around and behind her. 10%.
Up Throw: Pauline will grab the foe, bounce them on her parasol, and toss them up. 7% (hit), 4.2% (throw).
Down Throw: Pauline takes out a barrel and smashes it over the opponent's head. Her most damaging throw. 18%.

Neutral Special—Cap Throw: Pauline throws her hat in front of her like a boomerang. The range is slightly shorter than that of K. Rool’s Crownerang. Her hat spins as it flies, hitting opponents multiple times. If the button is held, the hat will home in on the nearest opponent. Much like Mega Man’s Metal Blade, the hat can be thrown in different directions by flicking the control stick after the button is pressed. Additionally, there's a 1/6 chance that Pauline’s hat will have Bonneter eyes on it when it’s thrown, but this is purely an aesthetic bonus. 5% (initial throw), 1.2% (spinning attack), 3% (return).

Side Special—New Donk Melody: Pauline takes out a microphone and sings a couple of notes. Her music moves slowly forward in the form of up to three music notes in bubbles. If one touches an opponent, they will be forced to taunt, no matter what they were doing. This specific taunt will be non cancelable If an opponent is in midair, they will taunt as soon as they touch the ground, unless they grab a ledge.

Up Special—Jack Lift: Pauline bounces off a jack/spring/whatever those things are called. It’s basically Sonic and Mega Man’s up special, with Pauline being able to act out of it. Other characters can bounce off the jack as well.

Down Special—Mini-Toy: Pauline holds up a capsule with a ? Mark on it. From there, she can cycle through a selection of Mini Toys that act like Bowser Jr.’s Mechakoopas. They don’t explode upon contact with a foe, but they can be attacked and defeated. The available toys are:

Mini-Mario: Walks forward at the same speed as Young Link's walk. Deals 5% if touched.
Mini-Luigi: Walks forward at the same speed as Mini-Mario, but will jump occasionally. Also deals 5% and makes opponents trip if they touch it.
Mini-Peach: Walks forward at the same speed as Lucario's walk. Deals 6%, launching the foe up with a parasol.
Mini-Donkey Kong: The slowest toy, but also the strongest. Deals 12%, attacking with a double-armed swing if touched.
Mini-Toad: The quickest toy, but also the weakest. Deals 4%, attacking with a spin.

Each of the Mini-Toys has a set amount of health, and only 2 can be onscreen at a time. Mario and Luigi both have 15 HP, Peach has 20 HP, DK has 25 HP, and Toad has 10 HP.

Final Smash—New Donk City Concert: A microphone appears in front of Pauline. In a flash, she summons the Super Mario Players to play that hit song, “Jump Up, Super Star!” It’s such a toe-tapping beat, that opponents will be forced to dance (taunt) along, even if they respawn! They won’t be able to recover, either, so go wild! If someone is right next to Pauline when this Final Smash is activated, they'll be launched upwards for 30% with strong knockback by the appearance of the band!
 

Perkilator

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How would that work?

Grima is Robin unless you literally want the dragon that's big enough to have armies fight on his back.

At best I can only imagine a clone of Robin which doesn't sound very interesting. They don't even have different designs.
My idea for Grima was a boss battle where you fighting the floating possessed Robin on Grima’s back. His attacks would be a mix of corrupted versions of Robin’s specials and the dragon either tilting left and right or shooting his Fell Breath at you.
 

Pink Yoshi

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Regarding Grima, I always felt like he'd be kinda like a smaller version of his dragon self, probably the largest character in the game. Oh yea, it'd be an enormous pain for poor Sakurai to model. He's bigger than even Ridley and would be a nightmare to resize. Which is why this will ultimately never happen. Even I'm aware this is a majorly unlikely pipe dream. But for my money, there's no bigger power fantasy than playing as the terrifying Fell Dragon and raising terror upon the denizens of Smash.
 
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Gengar84

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Dec 9, 2009
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Before Hayabusa? I'd be furious.
We tend to agree on most topics around here but I think this is the one thing we’ll never see eye to eye on. First, I believe that both Ryu Hyabusa and a Warriors rep are worthy and deserving Smash characters so I’m not trying to say Hyabusa shouldn’t get in. I do feel like the Warriors/Musou series has left a much bigger impact on gaming and especially Nintendo in recent years than Ninja Gaiden to the point where I feel a character like Lu Bu probably deserves a spot in Smash before Hyabusa. Not to mention that I’ve personally loved the Warriors franchise since Dynasty Warriors 2 on the PS2 and have invested several thousands of hours into the series over the years. Sadly, I have yet to play a single Ninja Gaiden game, so despite thinking that Hyabusa is a cool character, I have no personal attachment to him. I’d still be happy with his inclusion in Smash because who doesn’t like using a cool ninja character?
 
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SPEN18

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If the trend of Final Smashes being primarily cinematic continues, then I could see Grima as part of an updated Robin FS, especially if Chrom is retained as playable.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Would Chun-Li, Tifa, Lara Croft, and Jill Valentine be good fits for Smash?
I’d say all of them save Tifa are good bets. I think Resident Evil as a series will probably get a look for Smash in the future with how huge it is, same with Tomb Raider. Chun Li is also hella iconic, I’d say all three of those are great picks to add more leading ladies to smash.
 

Gengar84

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I’d say all of them save Tifa are good bets. I think Resident Evil as a series will probably get a look for Smash in the future with how huge it is, same with Tomb Raider. Chun Li is also hella iconic, I’d say all three of those are great picks to add more leading ladies to smash.
Another iconic female game character I feel is under appreciated and would make for an awesome Smash character is Sarah Kerrigan from StarCraft. That game was hugely influential in many ways and Kerrigan has a really unique and cool design with a ton of moveset potential. It also has some Nintendo history with StarCraft 64. Microsoft just has to address Blizzard’s internal issues and work culture first.

Jinx or Vi from League of Legends/Arcane are two other hugely iconic female characters that I feel have a strong case for the next Smash if we’re looking outside Japan. League has only been growing in popularity lately and Arcane is an amazing show even for people who don’t know anything about LoL otherwise, like myself.
 
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Lionfranky

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I’d say all of them save Tifa are good bets. I think Resident Evil as a series will probably get a look for Smash in the future with how huge it is, same with Tomb Raider. Chun Li is also hella iconic, I’d say all three of those are great picks to add more leading ladies to smash.
How much will Nintendo want to invite Lara? Square Enix will no longer have Tomb Raider. I am not sure to what extent Nintendo or next Smash director wants to contact Embracer Group for her.
 

Gengar84

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I think the first 3 are probably going to happen eventually. As for Jill......... CERO is probably going to have some... problems with a Resident Evil Fighter, so Jill is probably banned lol.
Is there anything about Jill’s moveset that would prevent her from getting into Smash that isn’t also true of Lara Croft? The biggest issue I see with either of them is their pistols but Joker has pretty realistic looking guns, even if they are technically not real.
 
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fogbadge

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I think the first 3 are probably going to happen eventually. As for Jill......... CERO is probably going to have some... problems with a Resident Evil Fighter, so Jill is probably banned lol.
they could always convert the guns into crossbow that make gun sounds like in KH2
 

TCT~Phantom

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How much will Nintendo want to invite Lara? Square Enix will no longer have Tomb Raider. I am not sure to what extent Nintendo or next Smash director wants to contact Embracer Group for her.
I mean, Tomb Raider is huge. I think while her not being part of Square anymore does hurt her since they don’t have that foot in the door anymore Tomb Raider is a massive series and Lara is an iconic character that I think she still has a very respectable shot.

————————————-

One fun idea I had was to discuss enemy ideas for a Smash Run/Melee Adventure mode for the new franchises introduced in Ultimate. Here are a few that I think would be cool.

Kingdom Hearts: Shadows, Dusks
Persona: Jack Frost, Pyro Jack
Dragon Quest: Slime, Great Sabrecat
Minecraft: Creeper, Skeleton
Banjo Kazooie: Buzzbomb, Bigbutt
Splatoon: Chum, Chinook
Castlevania: Medusa Head, Creature and Flea Man

Doing the fighting game franchises is hard, I would like a Martian from Metal Slug tho.
 

Ivander

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Is there anything about Jill’s moveset that would prevent her from getting into Smash that isn’t also true of Lara Croft? The biggest issue I see with either of them is their pistols but Joker has pretty realistic looking guns, even if they are technically not real.
The pistols are an eye-raiser, since we don't really know why/how Joker managed to get away with the more realistic-looking gun. That said, I don't think the guns have to be an issue if you take some more creative measures with their other equipment and the bullets themselves.
-Like you might be able to get away with pistols and more realistic equipment if you make the bullets look un-realistic. Maybe give them a bit of a laser-like feel in the sense that they have this bright looking light-path covering them, with part of the reason being that it's to show their hitboxes and speed for the players to be able to see them and dodge them, while also making the bullets look less realistic.
-They could also pull a Marvel vs Capcom by having the guns shoot out an un-realistic burst of energy when she shoots with the handgun or other bullet weapons.
-And they can also have her focus more on the explosion weapons compared to the bullet weapons like Snake. She did do this in Marvel vs Capcom 2 where there was only one Special of hers that used the handgun and it was a Counter special.

Something to also think about in Jill's case could be to take a bit of inspiration from her Marvel vs Capcom 2 moveset and Chris' MvC movesets. Besides the low focus on the bullet weapons and having a grenade and rocket launcher, she did have that Charging Star-like move in MvC2 that could be charged up to do more hits and damage. And Chris in MvC used a flamethrower, flame and freezing grenades, a stun rod, landmines and even a satellite laser.
 

GolisoPower

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One fun idea I had was to discuss enemy ideas for a Smash Run/Melee Adventure mode for the new franchises introduced in Ultimate. Here are a few that I think would be cool.

Kingdom Hearts: Shadows, Dusks
Persona: Jack Frost, Pyro Jack
Dragon Quest: Slime, Great Sabrecat
Minecraft: Creeper, Skeleton
Banjo Kazooie: Buzzbomb, Bigbutt
Splatoon: Chum, Chinook
Castlevania: Medusa Head, Creature and Flea Man

Doing the fighting game franchises is hard, I would like a Martian from Metal Slug tho.
Tekken could have Jack-7's. Jack Units are numerous and have been in the series since the beginning. And maybe once we get a better idea on how it works, somebody from that open world portion of Street Fighter 6?
 

JOJONumber691

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Is there anything about Jill’s moveset that would prevent her from getting into Smash that isn’t also true of Lara Croft? The biggest issue I see with either of them is their pistols but Joker has pretty realistic looking guns, even if they are technically not real.
they could always convert the guns into crossbow that make gun sounds like in KH2
I'm referring less to Jill herself, but rather Resident Evil as a Series. A lot of its appeal comes from how brutal it can be, being a Horror Game after all. So I feel like this fact is probably something that Smash needs to deal with in order to get Jill into the game. To the point where I feel like she's screwed over by her series of origin unless the Japanese Age Rating is somehow allowed to go up from an A to a B.
 

fogbadge

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I'm referring less to Jill herself, but rather Resident Evil as a Series. A lot of its appeal comes from how brutal it can be, being a Horror Game after all. So I feel like this fact is probably something that Smash needs to deal with in order to get Jill into the game. To the point where I feel like she's screwed over by her series of origin unless the Japanese Age Rating is somehow allowed to go up from an A to a B.
what about the horror game character we have as an assist trophy we have?
 
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